So your rod is sensitive...what about the guides?

[Texeye]

I read or heard that chromium or steel type guides were more sensitive than alloy types. I understood that steel transfers the vibrations from the line to the pole better than alloy type guides.

I was under the impression that alloy guides were the best guides. Since the line on a good pole never touches the rod, I would much rather have sensitivity than durability.

Anyone know if this a fact?

Thanks,
Texeye

[Mattman]

The added sensitivity is from the reduction in weight. Straight up metal guides that do not have a ceramic ring weigh less, which encumber the rod less.

There is very little difference in how various guide frames are going to transmit that vibration.

While I do like the reduction in weight of a ceramicless guide, I do not like the lack of slickness of the guide or the softness of the guide.

Fly rods have had wire guides for a long time. And as a group, fly anglers are slow to change and break tradition. Ceramic guides are starting to become very popular with the fly crowd. Casting distances increase, line life increases, and you don't get that annoying sound. In short, they are seeing much better performance out of ceramic guides even though they are heavier.

You can take a triangular file and easily put a groove in a metal guide. You can take that very same file and saw away on a good ceramic and not even mar it.

I've had customers groove a metal guide within 6 months of owning the rod with average fishing.

Some hardness values of various guides...

Stainless Steel (SS): 400
Chrome: 800-1000
Carbaloy: 1000
Aluminum Oxide: 1200-1400
Alconite : 1300-1500
NanoLite : 1800
Zirconia: 1000-1400
Zirconia PVD: 1600
SiC: 2200-2400

Nothing but ceramic guides will be used on my personal rods. I'm going to have to see some very good hard test data to convince me that metal guides are going to outperform ceramics overall.


Matt Davis

Better to have and not need than to need and not have!

[unlogged MSUICEMAN]

though lighter guides do in fact make the rod more efficient, I do not believe that there is a significant different in sensitivity. As stated before, there is a durability factor and slickness factor related to using ceramics over stainless guides.

An added thing, you state the alloys..... steel is an alloy, in fact, most all of the frames out there are made from alloys, even titanium framed guides, thats why I believe you meant the ceramics versus the stainless.

On a side note, I think the nanolite titans are lighter than most steel framed guides out there, are super slick, very durable, and VERY corrosion resistant for abuse and/or saltwater use.

[ETT]

Sensativity through the guides?? I'd be more concerned about dampening the sensativity by creating flat spots in the blank, with double footed guides.

For the guys really concerned about sensativity I always recommend single foot guides. You might consider that alternative.

[Texeye UL]

Sorry, I did mean ceramic guides but I see you guys figured that out. I appreciate the input and the listing of hardness of the different materials. I noticed Fenwick uses chromium guides on some poles and since this hardness is pretty close to some of the top end I think I will try one and see if I can tell any difference.

Thanks again guys.
Texeye

[Jimmy Jig]

Here's my take on guides. Most of the fisherman today have used nothing but alloy type guides. The rod companies have discided that the old chrome guides are much cheaper and they also change the action of the rods. So they can lower the price or they can tell everyone how they are better! They will groove very quickly, but most people now have lots of rods so you probably will not notice for afew years that the tip guide and the next one down are worn. By then something new will come along and they will sell the newer idea to a whole new group. We used to use chrome, then S.S., then carbaloy. S.S. and carbaloy are not very smooth and the line didn't last long, so we went to agate and it was great but with one big problem, it cracked when hit, dropped or what not. When we changed to the new ceramic the rod action got looser and heavier. So, now we have gone full circle. I guess I will stick with ceramic until something comes a long that is better and its NOT chrome.

[Texeye UL]

Since we are on the subject...Is it the new firelines that cause the grooving or does monofilament do it also? I don't ever recall grooves in my old rod guides but maybe I just never noticed or kept a rod long enough.

Thanks,
Texeye

[Mattman]

>Since we are on the subject...Is it the new firelines that
>cause the grooving or does monofilament do it also? I don't
>ever recall grooves in my old rod guides but maybe I just
>never noticed or kept a rod long enough.
>
>Thanks,
>Texeye


Fireline, or any other superline, on its own will not groove guides. They are made from spun polyethelyne and are naturally "waxy".

Some of the first generation superlines contained polymers that were abrasive and ever since its been tough for superlines to get over that stigma.

Most grooving comes from contaminants clinging to the line itself. And even mono can do that.



Matt Davis

Better to have and not need than to need and not have!

[BP]

Matt,

Do you have any experience with the Loomis Titanium Carbide-Nitride coated guides now offered on some of the GLX models? If so, what is your opinion?

[Mattman]

>Matt,
>
>Do you have any experience with the Loomis Titanium
>Carbide-Nitride coated guides now offered on some of the GLX
>models? If so, what is your opinion?


Are you referring to the wire guides? The Recoils?

Those would be the only GLX guides I am familiar with.



Matt Davis

Better to have and not need than to need and not have!

[Texeye]

Matt, that makes sense to me.

Thanks,
Texeye