rivets/welding

[ebijack]

please stop posting how "airplanes are riveted so boats should be also"...way to many differences between the applications/material stresses/types of materials used etc to use that as an arguement.
manufactures use the process that they believe will work best for their products comparing costs/manufacturing/labor etc.
it's fine to believe one is better than another, but don't use that for your reasoning. it's a myth that should be put to rest.
thank you

[hgmeyer]

Not any "kookier" than a lot of the "logic" I've read to justify bashing one boat or another...

I like riveted hulls...But, then I don't have a good reason except that I have had good luck with riveted hulls for the last 40 years... I still have a mid 70's Polarcraft Jon boat that is fairly well beat up from hard use (cosmetically) but structurally is watertight. I have a 1988 Sylvan that doesn't leak and a 1993 Tracker 19' that doesn't leak either...What more could I want...I think next year I will "want" a new Tracker Tundra with an Evinrude Ficht....There, from the frying pan to the fire in the "my boats better than yours..."

[perchjerker]

I hear ya, bud.

I think a lot of people get that from the Lund brochure. I saw it in there once.

[R.J.]

Ya, but airplanes are rivetted so boats should be too!!!!!

[hgmeyer]

The real truth of this is that the Wright Brothers owned Lunds...so it is actually the reverse..."BoaTS aRe rIVeteD sO aiRplanEs ShoUlD bE tOO!"

[JMC]

Wasn't the Titanic riveted???? :+

[Fishingdog]

How often do you hear of a riveted boat's aluminum cracking along a seam? I personally have never seen one. How often to you hear of stress cracks on a welded hull. I have seen it 7 times on people's boats that I know. Not defending that aluminum hulls should be riveted, just stating that in my personal experiences, riveted hulls are stronger. I have seen loose rivets but what is easier to repair, a crack or replace a rivet?

[Al]

Actually, I'd like to see the evidence of this "myth". I see that airliners go through a lot of different stresses, as do boats via the various ways one can land, the angle of waves etc. I've spent a lot of time hunting with guys who swear by welded boats, yet spend a lot of time repairing them, a lot more than I ever did a riveted boat...an old riveted boat at that.

[ebijack]

without bashing a boat line, i know of 2 right now with cracked hulls (not small cracks either)that are riveted. problems occur in every product when mass produced. what i was posting about, is the fact that there is absolutely no way to compare a planes riveted material and stress to a boat's riveted material and stresses. totally a different enviroment and strain and load bearing on members/joints etc. i never stated that riveting wasn't good, just don't compare apples to oranges without knowing all the technology that makes both work for their enviroment. you cannot even compare one manufactures gel coat process to another till you know what steps and thichness/temperatures etc they use to come up with a final product. i doubt there is a glass boat line out there that hasn't had some cracked/blistered hulls.
it's like comparing 2 stroke to 4 stroke...different beasts! you can like either one, just don't do a general comparison and say "this one is better period"...when it isn't possible to cover all applications etc.

[noluck]

I HAVE A 1982 SYLVAN THAT I PUT 1000 + HOURS A YEAR IN DUCK HUNTING TO TROLLING FOR WALLEYE AND THE ONLY LEAK IN IT IS FROM BASHING ROCKS DUCK HUNTING. NOT ONE LOSE RIVET

[Kelly]

Ya, but what if airplanes were invented before boats,would that make a difference? Or maybe airplanes are actually boats that fly, because airplanes actually do float and after all they are rivetted. But then again maybe boats are airplanes that float but don't fly. Or airplanes are boats that float and fly. Maybe that's where the fish n' ski term came from. But what if you had a boat that would fly but not float, would it then be an airplane? Would you use it for a boat or an airplane? You'd probably use it for an airplane which may help explain why the best aluminum boats are rivetted. But then you'd have to have airport security at every boat dock on every lake, hey that's a great job creation idea, glad I thought of it. But what if you had an airplane that would float but not fly, would it then be a boat? Would you use it for a boat or an airplane? You'd probably use it for a boat which may also help explain why airplanes are rivetted. But what if you had 2 boats(which as we determined before are actually airplanes that float) which one would you use for flying and which one for floating, or would they both be a fly and float. Anyone else want to help me out here, I think I'm onto something. I can see it now the new Lund Pro V/Boeing 767, guaranteed to be the fastest boat/airplane on the tournament circuit, but at least we know it would float. I wonder if you could order that in a Tiller, but then are Tillers better than console Boats, I mean airplanes, I mean boats, you know what I mean, or do you, or do I? Gotta go, I gotta get the jump on the security thing at all the docks. But what if a welded or glass boat came to the launch? As boat/airplane security would I have to inspect them also, as airplanes are actually rivetted, so therefore no because those boats or are they airplanes aren't actually airplanes because they're not rivetted! Someone PLEASE HELP ME HERE, I'm confused.

[ebijack]

if you have the time, talk to folks who build airplanes from aluminum and fly them (i'm even talking home builts). fine out the material type/thickness used/riveting process etc and why they are built that way.
you have success with rivets...GREAT, some have great success with gel coat with incapsulated wood, where others only want compsite. again, different process/material.
planes don't float... has nothing to do with what each was made for and the conditions they have to survive.

[perchjerker]

Tom-
You just had to open up that can of worms!!

Uhh, that can is welded, not riveted, right?

[MarkG]

Have owned 6 different aluminum boats in last 22 years. All of riveted design but even some of those have welds too.The only hull problem I ever had was a keel weld that cracked and open up .

[ebijack]

yeah i know perchjerker, cans have a rolled edge and don't leak....wow what an idea!.....not. OK I'M WRONG!!!......riveted is better because planes are riveted........yeah right, that's definately not the reason.
just got fired up... this past week i've been dealing with 2 college engineers that finally found out they got jipped at college...they don't know what they thought they learned. and after listening to a few factory reps who don't know WHAT their talking about at the past couple boat shows i had to try to stop the blaintant mis-belief about rivets and planes vs riveted boats.
my info comes from my personal knowledge and a friend/co-worker(he's only built 2 planes, and started 2 others...he's not the only one)but this guy can tell you the tensile strength/maching capabilities/weld strength of most any aluminum out there(he prefers cromemalignum for the frames strength/light weight for his applications...the aluminum is only a skin....not as much strength as a covering). and the rivet material needed for "x" amount of load/capture/pressure strength for most any airplane. he's a walking bible on most any plane ( i think i'm more opinionated than he is, but the jury is still out on that one.)anyways...a few beers and here i am......keep the post comin :)

[fishandhunt1]

go ahead and think what you want but look back at fishingdogs post he pretty well sums it up. what is happening is you are letting the aluminum material flex in the seem on a rivited boat. on a welded boat it will not flex so it has to crack.I,ve worked with aluminum for almost 20 years and this is what I have learned. Not saying welded hulls are bad but alot of it is the man doing the welding also. Just my 2 cents worth. Happy Hooken were out of here.

[ebijack]

you are correct that every attachment being rivet or weld has to hold the hat section (rib) to the hull material. which is better...that's up to alot of how it's put together and materials used.
i was only trying to stop the "plane/boat" assemblage.

[WhatssssUppppppp]

I will do extensive research on this alluminum thing with these cans (Budweiser provided) and get back to you

[mac]

welded

[mac]

I own an old Alumacraft 13 1/2 footer that was possible the first one in that model that they ever built as the serial # is F-100. It has been in the family for more than 50 years and a few years back I got tired of wet feet and replaced 50 rivets and now it is dry again. I could not have done that with a welded hull.

Mac

[Mike E.]

Good thing NOAH did not have to choose between the rivets and welded or he might not have had enough room for the family(ies) of animals. I like the security thing Kelly was talking about.

[Driftr]

Gee Tom,
I remember 3 years ago when I asked this question. I got bashed to you know where & back , hahahaha. But I did learn one thing. When I can my venison, I weld those cans shut. I got one of them ##### rivets stuck in my teeth once too often. :-)

Driftr

[Dave M.]

Rivets...

[StoneyPteTom]

Did your buddy weld his home built planes?

Here is a new one, has anyone tried just glueing a boat together? Why rivot or weld when you could just glue it?

[ebijack]

howdy driftr, have you noticed how the post LINE mentions rivets/welding, but never in the posting itself did i mentioned a word about welding (really got a few's attention)and i never mentioned one is or isn't "better"....just planes/rivets/boats..... that topic like you remember(i think that topic got repeated at least once) wasn't even the thought here. i thought with all the folks who visit this board, someone would post about the processes and material types, structural intregrity etc.

[Kelly]

Rivetted is actually better because airplanes are rivetted, but then again I determined airplanes are actually boats that fly and boats are airplanes that float. So actually airplanes are rivetted because boats are, so we've had it all wrong from the start. But what if someone invented a welded boat that would actually float? Would it then be an airplane too? Of course not because airplanes are rivetted. I've now come to the conclusion that welded boats do not exist they are just an optical illusion because airplanes are actually boats, they float, and thus something has to be rivetted to float. Now I get it.....Finally! Why didn't someone tell me from the start?

[Gilligan]

It has nothing to do with if it is welded or riveted but on the quality of how they are welded or riveted. I own a boat that is welded and have beat Erie with it for 10 seasons without a hitch. I've seen 20 year old riveted Starcrafts without a leak. Build em right with either rivets or welds and they work. I think the rivet/weld question should be banned from WC!

[Mike E.]

Don't mean to put a spike through your hull Kelly, but what about the glass boats,planes or whatever. Where the heck do these units fit into the picture, lake, or sky? I haven't seen the latest intercontinental glass plane that floats or trolls, have you! Time for a nap, I'll check this out later, Mike E.

[Fishnfuul]

Kelley, Are you related to John Madden?

[Kelly]

Glass boats must also be optical illusions, but if they do really exist then what are they made of? My reason for asking is if aluminum boats are built from beer cans are glass boats built from beer bottles? And is that why most boats or airplanes or whatever they are now, pull either left or right? What determines which direction they want to pull? Is it the type of beer can or bottle used in the construction? I wonder if you poured beer into your boat, (remember it's actually a giant beer can or bottle) would the beer taste better from the glass boat or the aluminum boat? How would you tip it up to find out? Hey there's another job creation idea, but then again you could use a straw. But who drinks beer thru a straw? Who started this topic? I like it, it brings to light many questions I don't know the answers to. But then why don't they rivet beer cans? Is it so they sink perhaps and no one can see you litter?....must be!

[MarkG]

Hey Whassup! is this now a debate between aluminum and glass??? Next we will be debating how much they "draft" !!! Holy Cow!

[fishandhunt1]

Gilligan I agree with you very much, if the quality is there and people use there equipment like it should be used and not abused it will holdup for them. Happy Hooken!!!!!

[rock2me]

Sorry, got to jump in. If rivets are superior for the water, why have I NEVER seen riveted Floats for those airplanes on fly-ins? They all seem to be welded....strange...

How is the infrastructure of your boat attached? Rivets, I think not. I looked at all those Lunds and Alumacrafts and there internal structure is all welds. Why would that be?

I feel safe in either welded or riveted and I may change my mind in a Tracker Tundra. The one at the Rivercentre looked real nice. Way better than the one at the Minneapolis show. No waves, tight construction.

I'm sorry to say that this is one question that we will all have to agree to disagree.

Good Luck!