Minn. Star/ Tribune shows it's bias AGAIN.

[Tom P]

I just opened the Sunday paper to the front page main heading " Nature pays the price as ATVs hit the woods". Nothing like a good old bias Liberal/Socialist rag like Star Trib to brighten your Sunday morning. They show a picture of ruts dug up by ATVs in the forest. I read it quickly, but they assume that where there is any erosion, there is harm done to wetlands trees and plant. In my early years as a child with a dirt bike, my freinds and I rode at an area and dug it up almost as bad as the picture shown. The land came back just fine. In fact where we rode there were more grasses that grew with more vigore then where we did not ride. This may just be me, but it seems "they" think of ANY erosion as if it were nuclear waste. Here we go again with the "junk science" stuff again. If we could have a panel of" non bias" or in almost all cases non liberal/socialist envriomentalist that seem to dominate this subject and are almost always the only ones who do this research. We would find a totally different story. Most people totally believe this total BS for fact. Where is it ever said that "we" can't damage motherearth riding dirt bikes?? They are right and know all( the wacos) and you evil dirt bike riders and snowmobile riders are so stupid you are damaging or killing earthworms, plants and heaven forbid a 12 inch sapling in your noise making pleasures. Again more "junk science" that alot of non thinking people will think of as fact because they have been trained to "feel" and not second guess and analyis everything that is seen, heard of smelled. Let's all just join Scientology with some of those great enlighten Hollwood types and be enlightened to non fact "opinions" of life and the environment. I must also add that I do not own a snomobile or ATV I sold my last nature killer about 15 years ago because there was no where to ride close enough.

[s.f.]

I am still shaking after reading that earlier today. As you reference, this is typical in many cases, of the Star Tribune. It's too bad, in a way, the outdoor writers aren't more like Sid Hartman, who say it like is, not how it is perceived by a few extremists. It is truly irresponsible reporting.

#49

[pete]

I have an ATV also. Lets face the facts that there are some riders that do get carried away, and do not respect the great outdoors. Maybe it will put a flag up and the outdoors will be respected by all.

[PKW-IN.]

If you all think that this is bad for nature, let me tell you of another sad fact. Here in Indiana, we have ridden horses for bird dog field trials for over fifty years on State Fish and Wildlife land. This will happen NO More because now they, State, claim that the horses are doing too much damage to the property. They don't say anything about the fact that the property managers are not maintaining the ground as they once did and that all these lands were purchased with hunting and fishing licenses and P & R taxes on sporting goods. Just another back door attack on hunting and use of Public property. We are all loosing, including mother nature. I too believe that some "conservation" is much better than "all preservation". Education of our youth is the only answer and I'm not talking about formal education. Take a kid hunting and fishing.
Paul K. Wright

[Tom P]

I know it will not matter, but I'm calling Monday to voice my total revultion for that 1 of 2 story or sales pitch to BAN ATVs. Just wait till story or sales pitch to BAN ATVs # 2 comes out! More Liberal propaganda!

[Bob]

I think the Trib is right on by showing the abuse of PUBLIC resources. It may be a small percent of the users and it may be a samll percent of public land but it should be addressed now before it is widespread. I am particularly pissed when I see atv's on WPA and WMA land. Not a great comment from Dave Kryzer VP of the ATV association after complaining about regs "But you still haven't provided me some place to ride" like we "owe" him something because he spent a bunch of cash on an ATV. It is a "privelege" to be able to ride on public land not a "right". Abuse it and lose it.

[Tom P]

PKW -IN,---- Your kids are hearing this junk science in your "puplic" schools. They get these false facts drummed into then for 8 hours a day by our enlightened teachers (bias). I can barely afford to send my child to private school in the future. But I will be dammed if they are going to fill her head with that Motherearth is hurting BS. It is like a cancer. Gee, I wonder why the liberals don't want vouchers. Competition would hurt their brain washing of "OUR" children to their false facts and waco causes. The teachers union, in my opinion is the strongest union in the USA. It is all or mostly liberals in that union that brainwash the regular DFL voters that they are right through the use of "FEAR" and lies. That means about 35% of the USA beleives the teachers union. = the strongest union in the USA. OOPs, off subject Lets get back to the killer ATVs ,Sorry!

[I'm confused]

In one sentence you say "Here we go again with the "junk science" stuff again". But three sentences later you say "Where is it ever said that "we" can't damage motherearth riding dirt bikes?". Is your beef with science or is it with your right to do damage to the forest floor?

[Tom P]

Bob, ATVs dig up dirt! There is no way to stop it. It is worse when it rains. Sorry, Mother will repair herself. But that is OK, you "Feel" And you have not seen that"Stuff grows back" Mother can heal herself from that little little little pin prick that is on the whole square mileage of the USA. NON factor

[EyeJacker]

Obviously, the author's real motive, while worming his way though the old "Save the Trees" saw, is to preserve a sufficient number to continue to produce his early edition(which you can't burn or bury). It does make good worm bedding though! To the article's Author, himself having apparently fallen into a old rut, I say just remember that "The early worm gets the bird" :)
Jack
ATV, an acronym (author's context) for "A Tilted Version" or "All Trees Vision"
A claim of Poetic License is hereby rendered for this rather liberal interpretation.

[ATV'sSuck]

i for one am sickened by the continual damage that is done by "some" atv riders. not all are trashing the woods. "SOME" are trashing the woods. sadly, the environmental damage is not only measured by the ruts in the trails. the damage goes way beyond the visible signs of some atv riders. how can anyone deny that the environmental damage does not exist? our hunting area used to be reserved for the purist hunters that were motivated enough to hike a great distance back into the forest. now, the "lazy bums" drive in there with ATVs with little or no regard for the environment or their fellow sportsman. there is absolutely without a doubt no question that the biggest slobs I have ever seen in the woods drive ATVs. NO DOUBT.
Thank you star tribune for bringing this to the attention of the general public. I cannot wait until the only place ATVs are run is in a building like the Metro Dome. ATVs Suck. thank you for listening. just another opinion.

[Spurdog]

Ya, Tom. And what's with these jerks that bash jetskiers? What possible damage can they do to a lake when it's all just water? It's totally my right to blast over your lines 30 feet from shore. What possible problem can there be with a little noise in an otherwise quiet place? It's a liberal plot to ban internal combustion engines.

[ATVs.suck]

right on BOB.

[Tom P]

I'll let you ponder on that one for awhile.:)

[joe]

Hey Tom,I am a teacher and am totally offended by your post. What do teachers have to do with ATVs? This is just classic teacher bashing. I work my butt off with 32studentsin my class and have to read posts like yours. How many times have I been in a peaceful, serene setting and have had a jet skier/water skier wreck it for everyone. Joe

[USA]

Let us get the story straight. I know exactly what these enviromentalist wackos want. Do not kid yourself. They do not want to save this land for purist hunters or hikers. The truth is that man is evil. They hate man. They hate capitalism and they hate progress. Any contact with land hurts our mother.

These are the SAME people who rally to kill babies and yet worry about our mother earth and it's little creatures.

Who does more for the environment, hunters and fishermen or environmentalists? You know who....

It really irked me getting the paper at the Boat Show with this headline. I took the paper and dropped it on the ground right in front of those that were handing it out. I know these people are not responsible but I need to vent. UUUUUUUUGGGGHGHHHHH!!!

[Tom P]

No, not a plot. Looooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggggg g tteeeerrrmmmmmm agenda! or calling. If you think digging up some dirt and having some good old fashion erosion with dirt bikes and snowmobiles is going to hurt the forest in the USA. Your nuts. Why is it now in the 90's and 00's we fear everything. There is a patch of land where I work that is still in tact like it was when we riped Motherearth up just like the pictures. It's doing just fine. It was doing just fine after a couple of months after a long spell of rain made it that muddy. The sky is falling! ATVs make a grove in the earth! It will never be the same. Oh no! I better call CNN! Or maybe Dan Rather. They will tell me how to think. Let's never get the OTHER side of the story. Let's just think these extremist are always telling us the truth. If you can not admite that a good and I mean good chunk of the environmentalist out there are extremist, But that is all we hear about their side. But because they learned all they know from their extremist professors, there for, they hold the cards on fact. Look what I found out about 2 stroke oil motors in a crowded bay on 4 th of July from an aquatic scienctist in a post a couple of months ago. He did a test of the water after hundreds of boats came ,sat and where starting to leave for fireworks. There was some oil/gas there but he said it was almost a non factor in parts per billionth. I was even brainwashed in to thinking while he told me of his findings that OH NO! Motherearth is doomed!, because of all that oil in the water. If he was a waco liberal envronmentalist he would of NEVER of told me about that study. I'm not saying dump oil in the lake like some of you always seem to think I going the other side of the spectrum. But these wacos are lying to us on a regular basis. The environment is their religion. Thousands of them take it just as far as our waco muslim terrorist do, but without the killing. They do burn down million dollor homes that people put up in the forest because they can't have "their" way. I say for every house they burn down. Cut down some big old red woods and see how they like it. We no longer have balance in this issue. We really never did. Lets start suing these collages for lack of diversity for employing 90% liberal profesors. How can we ever get "balance" if the cards are stacked in the education system. Another example: NPR National puplic radio??? Puplic radio??? I listen to these guys for about a month to give them a fair try. ( I do like Science Friday though) They should be called National Liberal Radio. Here again , never really hearing a right from center theme. Only left from center. With a couple of token liberal republican guests to make them think they were fair. Where is all this diversity they, the left, keeps hammering the evil right about??? OH this doesn't incude us they add, WE are right on our issues. You righties need all the help. Gee, I wonder why FOX NEWS is just killing CNN and gaining on the TV news now. Some of us are just getting sick of ALL this Liberalism shi+! People are begining to see this stuff for what it is. BS! Some is good, and needed, but a full diet of what we are getting is making us throw up! and I would call myself a liberal rebublican/libertarian. Both sides are full liers and crooks, but who is the lesser of the 2 evils I just can't take all the lies I see the left is tring to pass off. It is about time some of you speak up like me and say your full of it! The sky is not falling! Their best weapon, "fear" dosen't work on me anymore. Don't foget all your kids are starving at their schools. Send more money!

[Tom P]

USA,--- I'll help you vent. I'll take the hits with my real name posted. Their are a lot of guys out there that agree with me, but do not want to have their name posted in a sticky subject like this. Liberalism is ok on some issues. but is starting to become a fast moving cancer on freedom and common sense. Liberalism is becoming socialism with time. Listen to some JFK and Humphrey speaches and they sound like todays Republicans. That is how far left we have gone in 30+ years. Let's just let the UN run everything! Yea right!

[educated person]

Tom P, you do not have a clue what're talking about, are ignorant of the facts, a "little boy" who wants to play with his "toys" at everyone else's expense, and not really worthy of anyone else's response or time. I just thank God there are not many like you. You are a member of the vast minority.

[Tom P]

Joe , I don't like jet skiers at all. But you don't need or want to BAN them. There also is this problem out there. It is called "I'm offended if someone disagrees with me." I hope you are not a teacher that fills our kids with liberalism BS. You must be, because you are offended. Liberals are always offended about something. Sorry if I offended you, I'm getting really sick of people getting and using that they are offended on issues where years ago they would not. I know I'm being too blunt, but it is getting to the point that I'm getting sick of all this BS from the left. Enough is enough. and there is alot of others who are sick of it too. I just happen to be willing to take the heat for being blunt on this matter. But then, I'm totally out of line on my veiws of how ideology is corrupting our school systems and our way of life.(sarcastically said):)

[Tom P]

To post 18-----See more name calling, tell me where I'm totally wrong. I want your opinion too. But not name calling. People call or put down people if they can't fight with facts. I laid down my hand or opinion. Let's hear yours. I may not be totally right on all the issues. But you are the one who can't even put your real name down and put your hand down on the table with your real posts name. Tell me how you see it. Or are you just a "coward" like your post spells you out as and hide behind a no name post that calls people names. To bad, there are alot like me. Remember I'm a liberal republican! There are millions of us out there. And more and more of us are speaking out! Dispute my opinion with your facts and opinions. I must of hit a nerve?

[Jbob]

Once again it only takes a couple of bad apples to give all ATV riders and owners a bad name. Not all ATV owners wreck everything in the woods. We should take the writer of that article out and show him that some or most of the ATV riders respect nature and the woods.

[Chris]

OK, I was a dirt bike rider when I was young and stupid. I gave it up for many reasons but mainly I like the quietness and the unpolluted air of the woods. I don't know why people feel they have the "right" to operate them on my land and public land. Yea we all pay taxes,..but your rights of swinging your fists ends where my nose begins. Now if you are disabled or of an age you can't get off these things and walk well thats a different matter as far as I'm concerned. Running over a few saplings? On my property, snowmobiles and ATV's have done a lot more than that. A few bad apples? I think its the other way around. I'm closing my land next year. I've had enough of drunk,noisey people running over my lawn and trees and have put up with it for 0ver 15 years. Why is this a "Liberal " thing anyway? On most things I think everyone would consider me Conservative, but I don't care for these infernal devices. If thats a Liberal stance,...you can call me a Liberal.

[Bob]

As I said in an earlier post it's not the "USE" of public land its the "ABUSE". Treat it like you own it and you are passing it on to your kids. A big part of the article was focused on non-permited use areas. The DNR doesn't have enough people to watch over closed forest areas, WMA and WPA land. Same with jet-ski's, use um but stay out of other peoples faces. I own a jet ski and have had 4-wheelers for years, I personally ride 3000 mi/year.

[ATVs.suck]

chris, well put. these ATV operators are a bunch of lazy ##### bums. that is actually how i feel about it. get off your machine and take a hike! BAN ATVs on Public Land!

[educated person]

You're offended! Must be a liberal.

[EyeJacker]

Bob,
Any recommendations on how we are going to halt erosion and repair the Grand Canyon? It would seem imperative we find a "fix" before it takes your house ...and mine! :)

ATV Jack (i.e. Always The Vexatious)
Just curious Babe ahhh Bob that is, "Do you think Paul Bunyan may have really ridden a blue ATV?

[4eyesanhour]

And they should walk to work and swim when trolling. I am confident in the belief that it is the way you use public roads and waters, right? :)
Ike

[ATVs.suck]

i would like to repond ike. but, what the heck are you saying?

[ATVs.suck]

your comparison to the grand canyon is really lame dude. have you seen what the All Trashing Vehicles are doing to the public forests. obviously, you don't get out much if you have not personally witnessed the destruction of habitat and basic all out trashing of the forests.

[brw]

I don't know what's worse: Being offended by everything(a liberal)or being paranoid that everything is a conspiracy of government to take away every perceived freedom imaginable(a conservative). Yet here we go again...a site devoted to walleye fishing and now we've mutated to ATV's, "bum" teachers.

OK, repeat after me. lindy rigs.......shad raps....mono.... fuzz-e-grubs... rattlin rogues...get the hint?

[Tom P]

Chris,I would close my land too if they are farting around and not using it within reason. I think our main problem here is abuse of alcohol. As for the liberal thing, it seems more and more that "people" put this false worry or word their "feelings" that if 1 or 2 snowmobile, car, ATV or any other IC engine goes by them even if it is a 1/2 mile away that it some how is polluting their air or their right not to hearing noise. That is where I get my liberal brainwash comment. Men seem not to men anymore. Like a little noise from an IC engine and ALL that smoke ( give me a break) is some how adversely affecting them. I rented a house next to a landing on a lake in the Twin Cities every day their where these Walleye fisherman who made all this noise at all times in the night. Just the noise of their cars woke me up. They tried to be as quiet as they could. The smoke from their boats would come in my window at night and all my plant where dying from the smoke. Even through the day hours all that reving of their motors. Then they would even talk as they washed their boats off. Some would even clean their fish and throw the guts in the woods. What a stink that was. The traffic alone was bugging the crap out of me. But then all the noise, reving of motors, the oil slick in the lake, the talking and laughing at the landing. Tires spining trying to get the boats out. Not to mention all the trash these guys produce. I think if I had my way I would ban walleye fishing from night fishing you guys can only fish from 8 am to 7 pm I need you off the lake so I and all of us can get the sunset serenity of the lake. We all have the right to see the lake how it was 100 years ago. Besides it will only help the fish that must be as stessed out as I was with all this trashing of our space. I 'm not tring to ban walleye fishing. but some of you are not respecting other peoples space and trashing the lake. I realing think I'm being fair leting you guys fish day hours only. Besides. shouldn't you be home with your families at night anyway?:)

[BGunn]

Gee, I just had a real good idea....
Lets let them ban ALL ATV use, so they can hurry up and get on to the pollution that is caused by fishing. ALL that gas, oil, carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, lead weights, garbage thrown or blown out of our boats. We are wasting gas dragging our trailers all over the planet, and using internal combustion engines on our boats that inject the pollutants directly into the water...Lets let them hurry up and get to the part that we are causing pain to THEIR fish. Look at all those radio waves we put in the water with those fish finders, causing the frogs to grow 3 legs, and mutating the fish. What about the erosion caused by boat wakes, that MUST be stopped!

Divide, and Conquer....I can see that concept is still working fine.

There are abusers that we should keep in check, just like poachers, or any other law breaker. But when we let them turn ourselves aginst each other.....They can sit back and laugh.



*On your tombstone there will be two sets of numbers, one for the day you were born, and the other for the day you die.
What you make of that little dash between them, is all that really matters.*

[CANADIAN GUY]

Our family has teachers in it and the bulk of them deserve all the respect they can muster. A lot have not had a pay increase in years because of government shortages. I see all the time teachers blamed for the shortcomings of our children. Teaching begins and ends at home. A healthy home environment with adults spending time with their children is a sure fire way to have responsible adults. To send the kids off to school and expect the teachers to do the parents job is in my eyes the reason we have some problems in our society today. Another thing......the kids of today are highly tallented and very worldly, they are very adept at multitasking and are highly networked. You just have to take the time to get to know them.

[4eyesanhour]

I may have been a bit too abstract for you, sorry about that dude. The point being that the environmental damage from cars, trucks, boats, anything with an internal combustion engine may be far more insidious than some ruts in the woods...say nothing about all the manufacturing toxins produced. The more immediate problem may be that notorius 2%,the abusers, that permeate all facets of society. We must find a way to round them up, give them a fair trial and hang 'em.:) Any suggestions as to how this might be accomplished?
This issue sure seems to be a burr under your saddle....not good for the blood pressure....maybe you should consider taking a...
IKE :)

Consider that ATV* may be far more detrimental than you realize.

* ATV-All That Venom

[rock2me]

Tom P,

How true you are on JFK and HHH. I DARE any of you liberals to listen to their speeches now. You will find that your darling democrat heroes are more closely aligned with the modern republican party. There is absolutely NO doubt that the democratic party is truly the socialist party of today.

Do not take my words. Go find out for yourself the real truth. I dare you.

I know you liberals won't because it won't feel good to do all that work.


Good Luck!

[ATVs.suck]

wooohah; foureyes dude! now i know what you are saying dude. basically, you are saying that you do not get out in the public forests. you obviously are a road hunter that never gets off the main road.
i really challenge all of you to take a walk in the woods once and awhile. you will see the destruction from ATV abuse if you leave the pavement. you cannot miss the trashing that goes on in the public forests.
don't worry though, cause the ATVs will all be on the main road with you soon. rock on dude.

[rangerstorm]

if all of these products are doing damage to mother earth why are the manufactureers allowed to sell them.

[Mille Lacs Guy]

Tom P,
You are the same guy complaining when your favorite lake gets polluted. From reading your previous posts it seems all you want to do is b*&ch about something and blame it on the liberals. And do you know what degrades the lake water? Runoff and sedimentation from soil erosion. And no its not worse when it just rains. Whenever the cover is taken off bare soil the soil is susceptable to erosion and the sediment caused from the erosion is what mainly pollutes our fisheries.

I own an ATV and I look at it as a privelage not a right. I agree that the cover photo on the Strib was a little misleading. But I think they did have a legitimate story.

And I don't appreciate your bashing of teachers either. You insinuating that teachers fill children full of liberal ideas is a bunch of BS. Maybe someday you will open your eyes and see look at some of these issues objectively, instead of labeling everything as a problem caused by liberals.

[Fishingdog]

This is a rediculous post. Do you realize that back in the early 1900's and before, there was much more erosion caused by livestock and horses than ATV's will produce. When it is wet, a #1000 animal on 4 little "tires" hooves will dig up much more than some round wheels will. You must be a city folk because if you go to a farmstead where cattle and pigs are, look at the land. It is barren mud! Dont tell me that fourwheelers will dig up a forest to the point of damaging the eco system. I agree that they should be regulated to trails just as smowmobiles are in state parks, but give me a break! IT IS DIRT. In fact, it will likely grow back with more vigor because of all the new nutrients exposed. Lets be careful about this.

[Mille Lacs Guy]

The only thing that about 95% of the general public fears is logic like yours. And talk about "extremeist" its seems you are the extremeist.

[YA]

Ya Tom P you are an "extremeist"!!!

Please let me define "extremeist" (different than "extremist")

"extremeist" = anyone who is not a liberal and/or does not have the same opinions as Mille Lacs Guy.

[Meathead]

On the Youghogheny river near Ohiopyle it used to be possible to walk into the river for several feet but now it is a deep step. The reason given is jet skis eroding the bank. I don't own one but I do own a boat. I would like to see consideration from everyone. It isn't a teacher problem, a liberal bias problem. It is a lack of respect and manners. The "Golden Rule."

[JD]

Perhaps for the same reason that even though guns can be used to kill people, they are sold legally. Like just about everything else, ATVs have both legitimate uses and uses outside the best interests of society.