Do guides hide the best spots on the lake?

[DarrenB]

Interesting topic brought up here at work today that I figured I'd chime in on here. Maybe get a few opinions from some of the WC users and guides. I have a question for the lake guides out here. I have heard(including today) conflicting reports that, though a guide will put you on fish they will usually save the best spots on the lake and techniques for themselves,their families, special clients, etc.. Basically speaking, they'll let you in on how and where to catch fish, but won't let people in on the "real" action. A guy here says he witnessed this firsthand a few years back while fishing Eagle Lake for muskies. They hired a guide for a day who took them to an area in Osborne Bay in which the day was pretty slow. Only one follow, a 40 and a 37 inch fish. Next day while he and his friend were fishing the same area shown to them, the guide buzzed past them with a famous Chicago fishing personality who happened to be staying at the same lodge that week. That party ended up catching muskies all day(7 total)including a 54 inch fish. They got a nice write-up in the papers too a couple of weeks later.

I mean, obviously this is all pretty subjective and there's no real answer here. Any number of things could have happened to have resulted in their bad day with the guide vs the other parties good day. Weather, wind, baits, etc...Just wondering what some of you guides think. Do you give out the best spots, techniques and as much information you could to clients? Is there ever a secret "honey hole" that you'll never tell?? Not trying to stir the pot here or get anyone riled up, just wondering how the guides see it. I'd kill for your jobs. :)

Thanks,
DarrenB

[Ex Chef]

Restaurants do the same thing. They save the best steaks and food for their special guests. I mean why waste all the really good food on someone who probaly is not going to tip anyways.

[Eyez]

I don't guide, but of those that I know, none of them would hide a spot if it meant a client wouldn't catch fish. I think that most have favorite spots that are better than others, and sometimes they may avoid those spots for fear of followers, if they can catch fish elsewhere, but most guides will do whatever is in their power to put a client on fish, even if it means taking them to their "honey hole".


Dusty

[Todd_NE]

That's how guides get the good tips, repeat customers and word of mouth that "draws a Chicago personality". I know I go back to the same spots that didn't produce the day before and sit on them. Guides never have anyone sit on their best spot the next day and tell 20 friends about it.

Kill for a guides job?

Wake up at 6 am, throw down some coffee, grab bait, check everything over. Meet clients at 7 AM, fish til dark, listen to rude jokes, put up with a lot of bs, watch tons of missed bites, listen to a rumbling if the weather has the fish "off", clean the fish, clean the boat, check over the equipment, say hi to the kids/wife/dog whatever and go to bed at 10 pm for the next day. Works out to about $10/hour. Hope your clients don't cancel at the last minute. Of course you do get to see huge smiles, meet great kids and brats, promises of pics which never come, and the occasional local who thinks you ruin "his" water.

I'm fortunate to know and have used a lot of good guides. I'm sure as heck not jealous of anything. Think of how much you like to fish, guides put themselves last in the fishing equation every time. Some are born to it, but if you meet a rich guide, he was born that way and never lost it guiding.

Thank god for good guides.

Todd

["COMA"]

Sounds to me like the spot he took the first clients too did not fare to well so he opted for a different spot the next day. He made a great decision and put his client on fish. The spot he took the first client to was a good spot just did not have fantastic results that day. Lots of factors go into why you fish a spot that day also. I guide in Iowa and the numbers are not the best here. I have never saved a honey hole for myself or a special client. There is really not that many great spots on a paticular body of water in Iowa waters. You do what you have to to make your customer happy and want to come back. I mean if the guide could always put his clients on big fish every time. He would be fishing tournys and not guiding. Thats fishing . Sometimes your on them and some times your close. But you always learn every time out through evaluating what has happened that day. Good or Bad. But to be on them more than not on them is the part that takes skill and experience which is what makes a good "FISHERMAN" or guide or tourny angler. SEE YA ON THE WATER , "COMA"

[Youngeye]

COMA,,
I'm gonna have disagree with you about you statement that "if guides always put their clients on big fish they would be fishing tournaments", this is not true. I used to work at leech lake and worked for a gentlemen who would be considered probably one of the best guides up there and he always had is clients on fish. I asked him why he didn't fish tourneys, said he made more money guiding. You do the math, tourney fees travel etc. for a chance at a check or guide 3-5 days a week and bring in a guarranteed check. I would be willing to bet that there are alot of guides out there who would be excellent tournament fisherman.

[Old Guide]

You answered some of the question yourself. The guys he took fishing one day were on the spot the next by themselves. Most guides work as many different spots as possible so not to burn out a "honey hole". If his previous days clients were pounding the same place the second day and maybe more after that, it could be the end of that spot for a long time. This might not be so true of Musky, but think about a walleye hotspot. How long would it take to fish it out.

I always has several spots and rested them. All were good, some better that others. Any given day could be a big fish spot. When you go with a guide look at the type of water he is fishing more than where he is fishing. Find the same type on your own and you will probably do just as well as in his spot.
Good Fishin'

[Backwater Eddy]

Bingo!

;)

[Muskie?]

Seems to me that being a muskie guide would pose special challenges as opposed to say a walleye guide on Lake Erie. Muskies are much more territorial in nature and would require a real balancing act by the guide. I always wondered how they manage to please their clients every day and still be able to give each spot a rest.

[s.f.]

I will chime in on this one, as I having a couple years of guiding under my belt.
First, any guide who wants to be a success, with a customer base that wills their reservations to future fishing generations, has to die trying to put fish in the boat, at any cost or effort.
However, also being one of "those tournament guys", I have had be honest with clients, within a week of a major event, and explain to them that I am on the water with the tourney in mind as well. I give them the option, months before , to fish or wait til after. Interestingly, they always welcome the opportunity to watch and listen as I fish and hunt for the money. They always value that experience and are very willing to allow me to lay off the potential big money spots.

#49
Steve Fellegy

[Lawrence Ecklor]

The best spots change constantly on the river and flowages, sometimes several times a day, so I don't have a problem fishing the so called best spots. Catching walleye on a daily basis is difficult enough without me having to wake up in the morning and saying, gee I think I'll save this or that spot. I do have favorites(different throughout the year) and although we will fish through those spots the one thing I do avoid doing is fishing on spot to death, or saying "This is the best spot". I am constantly searching for new out of the crowd spots, just for guiding, and tournaments in that order. So what I just told you is that for my personal pleasure fishing I try to avoid those spots, and save them for guide trips and tourneys. I try to rotate location as much as possible. I have guide trips before tourneys after tourneys and occasionally as part of a tourney. If you fished a trip with me in March - September, the next day if you followed me around you would see me fishing many of those same spots, in a tourney. Historically about 3 out of 4 "large" SHEEBAS that come into my boat each year are on customers lines. So to put it more directly any spot is fair game on anyday. The big exception is spawning beds where all you seem to do is snag fish. I love fishing the outskirts of these beds where fish are actively feeding though. Lawrence

[Capt. Keith Wils]

I have never keep any hot spots a secret here on Bay De Noc, First of all its impossible to fish every spot that I know of in a 5 hour or 8 hour trip. You always hope the fish are where they were yesterday and that everyone on the lake is not at the same spot.
Capt.Keith Wils
www.walleyeschoice.com

[River_eye]

As a guide at an American plan resort, I'm very put off by people thinking that I'm not putting them on as much fish as possible. Some guests use this excuse to explain the day to day variation in the fish bite.

The more fish we catch, the more fun we have together, the easier the day is for me. There is absolutely no good logical reason not to try hard for every guest, even if I don't expect a big tip from you. No matter how big a tipper you are, I'd rather have a happy guy in my boat than an angry guy, period.

There is one exception though. If you are a meat hunter and don't respect my lake, I won't go out of my way to make sure you fill your limits.

[geo]

being a charter boat captain on lake michigan for 20 or so years and running over 220 trips a year for the last five I can tell you any good guides takes way to much pride in his job to go were there are not many fish, upcoming tourament or not we want people to come back and there is nothing wrong with doing a little scouting with your clients,even s.f. would agree that if things don't go well no spot is off limits even with a upcoming tourament.just to much pride involed!

capt. george gahagan

[Jack G]

A guide is a businessman and I would expect the following:

1. He wants me to catch fish.

2. If he is about to fish a tourney he probably would not take me
to the main spots he expects to fish in the tourney.

3. If a 'Special" client is coming the next day or two he probably
would avoid he hottest spots. If he knew enough about me to be
sure I was going to be gone the next day he might pick a fish or
two off he good spots.

4. If he was going to take part in producing a fishing show the
next day I feel certain he would avoid he best spots. He would
have other spots that held fish.

Ralph Dallas, a Tenn. striper fishing guide, told me a few years ago that he would not guide people from Tenn because if he revealed the details of his methods a few local fishermen could wipe out the supply of large stripers that he depended on to make his living.
Incidentally Ralph has a striper article in the March issue of In Fisherman, the byline is "by Ralph Dallas as told to Don Wirth.

I will be leaving for Florida in the morning for 5 weeks of fishing. I will fish at least 7 hours per day each day I am there, but I would not want a guides job. I love to fish but I prefer it on my own or with one good friend.

Jack

[GR8WTHUNTER]

Face it, we are all amature guides in a way. Every time someone gets on your boat, be it your brother-in law or one of the guys from work, you want to catch fish and see him catch fish. It has a lot to do with pride as mentioned earlier. You are the "expert" and the one that knows where the fish are and how to catch them. When the day is done you get a good feeling when your guest/partner catches fish and feel like the heel if he doesn't. That said, can't wait to get my brother-in-law to Canada in June so I can see him finally catch a fish on my boat

[Backwater Eddy]

I hid a spot so well once, I'm still looking for it.

:D

Backwater Eddy ~ ~ ~><sUMo> ~ ><>

http://home.talkcity.com/ResortRd/backwtr1/index.html

[Eyez]

hahahaha....


leave it to Eddy to touch on the lighter side :)

actually, I think that's happened to me before, like overnight, just before a couple tournaments... now where is that spot.....


Dusty

["COMA"]

I respect your opinion there young eye. But notice I said catch " Big fish" every time out. And if you can find enough clients to go out three days a week in Iowa Your doing pretty darn good. You are right about the chance involed with tourny fishing. I'm no stranger to that. I fished six tournys last year myself. Thats why I said If he can put his clients On "big fish" every time out. He would be fishing tournys and not guiding. A tourny check is much larger than a few days guiding. Not to mention the fame and sponsership that would come with always weighing in Big fish. If I won the pwt on leech lake thats a new lund boat and big prize money. Not to mention my popularity on the lake woulds sky rocket and I would have all the guide buisness I could possibly handle. No I know first hand that no one cathes big fish every time out. No one catches thier limit everytime out either. Weather and changing patterns and fish in transition can make a night mare of any great fishermans day. "COMA"

["COMA"]

You know maybe the guide did not stop at the spot the next day because some else was already there. I rarely fish a spot thats already being fished. Especialy when Guiding. I like to call my trips a walleye adventure. I like to fish in areas that are solitude if I can. I mean the customer is trying to get away and relax and enjoy mother nature. so why not give him what he really is after. I had a client come to Iowa from Oklahoma. He had me make the call on where to go fish. I took him to a 240 acre lake with hardly no structure to speak of. Pretty much a round bowl. We were the only boat on the lake most of the afternoon. One other showed up at dusk. We put the smack on the eyes all afternoon and into the night. Incredible walleye bite all to ourselves. He was very satisfied, On our next trip we went to Okoboji. We caught nice fish. But he said to me the little lake was more enjoyable not so much traffic and crowds. I felt the same about it. They really do want that solitude and to catch a few fish. This might not go for all customers some are there for the meat and some are there to pick the guides brain for the tourny next week. I have not had any of those yet but I know sooner or later I will get one. I might hide the honey hole from this type! It's my boat, It's my choice!. They might not return as a customer. But I know the fish will still be at the honey hole when I go back. So I guess the answer is Yes!. Guides do sometimes hide thier honey holes for themselves and special clients!. I am one of them. Glad we got that all cleared up . Wow I was starting to think that I really cared what other peolpe on this site thought about me. NOT! . I'm an american I say whats in my heart, When I want and how I want . So help me god!. I will never shade my heart to save face in the eyes of men. Carry on gentalman.

[Cangl]

I am not to sure about guides doing that but there are day's I am totally convinced the fish in the lake across the street are!!!