Thinking of downsizing caliber...opinions

[VMS]

I currently have a Browning A-Bolt Medallion in 30-06, using 180gr soft points, and am tired of blowing my shoulder off every time I shoot. It hinders my accuracy...especially in the field. At the target range, I am easilly in a 4 inch circle at 100yd using sand bags to steady the whole gun front and back.

So...I have been researching different calibers and am asking for opinions of the following: .25 WSSM, .243 winchester, and the 7mm-08. Seems as though these calibers would be solid enough for whitetails (primary use of the gun by the way...mostly under 80 yards due to underbrush thickness) as long as I use the heaviest grain bullet I can get. Wondering if any of these calibers have accuracy issues with factory loads, and the extent of felt recoil.

Lastly, any opions on the trigger of the A-bolt series rifles? Mine seems to take quite a bit to pull...squeezing down, I feel is a bunch of resistance before the gun fires, which makes me jerk the trigger more than squeeze it off. Any way to lower the trigger resistance?

I'm a lefty so the issues of finding a good gun in the calibers mentioned is pretty limited. Browing has the A-bolt in .243 and .25 WSSM..and I am leaning that direction. I like the 60 degree bolt that is also locked when the safe is on...

Any opinions will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks much!!

Steve

[Eyez]

I went through about this same thing over the last three years. I developed a bad flinch shooting my 06, and I debated going to a .243 because of it. In the end I solved the problem by putting a better recoil pad on my gun and going to lighter loads. I used to shoot 165 gr and 180 gr bullets, I've been shooting 125 and 150 gr loads the last 3 years, and I'm now 90% cured of my flinch. If I were you, I'd invest in a top quality recoil pad like the one made by SVL.

As far as possible alternatives, If I were you hunting in the brush, rather than a flat shooting smaller caliber like a .243, I'd be looking hard at the 30-30, or going to smaller loads in your 06. According to Remington, felt recoil from a 180 gr 06 in a 7 pound gun is about 23 ft-pounds, a 150 from an 06 is about 18 ft-pounds. That's a significant reduction. Otherwise, if you're not shooting at ranges past 100 yards, a 30-30 or even an SKS with an aftermarket stock and a decent scope (though finding good ammo isn't easy, most of it's junk) will do the job and recoil is minimal to nonexistant in the case of the SKS. The kicker with the SKS is that it's dirt cheap. Some guys really don't like the idea of shooting deer with it, but it gets the job done. I've shot 4 deer with 154 gr bullets from an SKS and all of them were clean kills, ranges varied from 25 yards to 75 yards. Past about 125 yards it's like throwing a rock, ballistics are very similar to a 30-30.

If I didn't think I'd ever take a shot over 100 yards, I'd put my 06 in the gun safe and fix up my plinker SKS to be my deer gun.

Were it me, though, I'd start with the good recoil pad and the smaller bullets, it worked well for me.

Also, having shot a Savage with the accu-trigger, I'm a huge fan. My old Remington 721 breaks at about 3 pounds and I've always thought that fantastic for a hunting gun, but the Savages can be turned down to 1.5 pounds for target shooting or adjusted wherever depending on preference.

I know it's not really an answer to what you asked. :D

Dusty

[VMS]

Actually it helps me out... I had been wondering about changing the recoil pad out. Never thought of going to a lighter grain bullet would reduce felt recoil. This is where I lack in knowledge...I always figured they put the same powder charge in the bullet even though they had lighter bullets.

Thanks much!!

Any other opinions are definitely welcome as well.

Steve

[Deegan]

I also have a Browning 30:06 which I like. But I tend to use a Remington 708 more often because of it's lighter weight, smaller size, and less recoil.

[reelman1]

If the recoil really bothers you there are 2 things you can do easily to help the problem. 1. As others have said get a better recoil pad. And at the range use a PAST recoil pad that straps on you shoulder - these things are un-believable. 2. Try some of the Remintong Managed Recoil ammo.

[Stu]

Dusty gave you some pretty good info and obviously knows what he is talking about. However, there are a couple of other things to consider and I wouldn't give up on your '06 just yet. If you are shooting off sand bags, I assume you're shooting prone. It has been my experience that felt recoil is much greater prone than any other position. Also you might consider a muzzle brake (like the Browning BOSS system). Make sure you wear ear plugs because the muzzle blast is significant. Also, I am not a fan of the 30-30. I know this will start a heated argument and alot of deer have been killed with them, but IMO it is a marginal caliber. Your '06 is a very versatile gun. Talk to a gunsmith about the trigger. Good luck - Stu

[VMS]

Thanks much for the replies.

I am going to hold off on a new gun at this point. I have done some research on different bullets/weights etc, and researched new low recoil stuff that sounds promising. Remington says their 125gr Core Lokt will be very similar in speed and accuracy as their bigger counterparts, but with 50% less recoil. Federal also has a low recoil 170gr powershock which would seem to fit the bill for what I would like. I keep the heavier grain weight up which should save a little on deflection, but yet keep momentum up a little. The ballistics show that it would be a little less in muzzle energy and velocity as a 30-30, with a bullet that would expand well out to about 200 yds. The recoil bothers me the most, because I think I am anticipating the gun going off, thus I cannot stay relaxed and just squeeze the trigger. No doubt after shooting about 10 rounds or so the shoulder hurts...

Best part about this, though, is I get to go and play around a little to see what works best...

Any of you shoot the low recoil stuff at all? Thoughts?

Steve

[EyeAuthority]

If you are seriously thinking of going to a .243, hold that thought for a bit and consider the 25.06 instead. A decent caliber for whitetails and in most cases has better ballistics than the .243. The felt recoil will be about the same as the .243. As someone else said here, felt recoil will be greater in the prone position. If you are shooting prone, make sure you align your entire body directly behind the rifle, on the same parallel as the rifle. Many folks are still of the mistaken impression that your body has to be at something close to a 45 degree angle from the rifle when shooting. If your body is aligned entirely (straight back) from the rifle, your entire body absorbs the recoil and not just your shoulder. Wearing earplugs and installing a recoil pad will help as will a bulky jacket. Be careful that you don't get a jacket with too much bulk. It has been my experience that the venerable old 30/30 can have quite a bark/kick too so be careful with that - though it certainly kills deer - it has serious limitations beyond 200 yards. I have a pre-64 30/30 that I blow the dust off occasionally.

The 30.06 is a fine rifle. If you prefer to stay with the larger calibers, seriously consider a semi-auto. I also shoot a Browning BAR in a .270 and a 30.06. I Don't notice any recoil at all with those. Some purists have a hard time with semi-autos but the BAR is a pretty reliable rifle. I just had my .270 taken completely apart and professionally cleaned for the first time since I bought it in 1977. (I do clean it myself all the time but had a professional gunsmith completely break it down) It has never failed me. But if you are thinking of downsizing, really, give the 25.06 a hard look. Check out the ballistics charts and test fire one if you can lay your hands on one. You might be surprised.

[EyeAuthority]

I forgot to mention, a competent gunsmith can do wonders with that trigger - shouldn't take him more than 15-20 minutes. If you really want to stay with the .06, do go with the lighter bullet,a good recoil pad, and you may even want to consider getting into handloading. I re-read your message and note that your shots are typically at less than 100 yards. No reason you can't go to a 150gr bullet or even down to a 125gr. I have never used a 125gr bullet in an .06 but have seen them. This will help on the recoil and report some. You can handload much lighter loads to help out. But if you do this, you will need experience and want to be careful. For whitetails at this range, you are a little overgunned here.

If you say that you are using sandbags and if you are getting inside 4 inches, I'd think you have developed somewhat of a flinch because that rifle should shoot better than that on sandbags. The guys have given some good advice, you should be able to reduce this problem. The only problem I saw was the 30/30. I'd really stay away from that unless you plan to use a lighter load for that rifle - and I do have one myself.

[WALLEYEGUIDE]

if you do decide to go with a new rifle you might consider the .260 remington. before you even shoot it take it to a good gunsmith and have the trigger work done. i like to have all my rifles & handguns set at 3# trigger pull. this will likely shrink your groups better than half. good luck!

[boss man]

My dads browning a-bolt 7mm is equiped with the boss and the recoil is extrememly mild, although quite load.

[reelman1]

Heavier bullets will deflect off of brush just as easily as lighter bullets. While I have nothing bad to say about the Federal reduced recoil load don't let the bullet weight be a determining factor.

[orchard frank]

When my wife started hunting deer 4 yrs ago, we went through the same thing, ended up with a Browning A-Bolt in .260 Rem. Can use 120 or 140 gr. bullets. Basically the same case as a 243/308. VERY accurate, pleasant to shoot. Result--8 deer, 8 shots. The 120 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip in Federal Premium ammo is a hot one. Some yrs ago I switched to a .270 from heavier (30/06. 300 mag) rifles. Haven't looked back. Have never lost a deer with the 270. The 260 can be had in the nice little short action Browning, a sweetheart. Good Luck

[VMS]

Here is the report:

I shot both the Federal Low Recoil round 170 grain and the Remington Managed Recoil rounds with 125 grain. Both had significantly lower recoil...in fact, the managed recoil was quite a bit less than the Federal round. I also shot a few rounds with the 180 grain federals I originally used.

The Managed recoil rounds fired into the exact same level and windage as my original 180 grain, but my shoulder did not have any problems, nor did I notice a bunch of muzzle jump either. I still need to get a trigger job done. It just pulls too hard for what I would like. But, I will be shooting the managed recoil rounds. In fact, I was able to tighten my groups down from about a 4 inch circle to a 2 inch circle. I fired a last round with the 180 and had that in the 1" circle, then fired 2 rounds with the managed recoil. Those were just under the 1" circle. I fired 2 more, but the muzzle was warm enough that when I was settling on the bullseye, I was seeing heat waves through the scope which marred the target...it was as if the target was moving. Those two rounds were within the 2 inch ring. Either way, I am within an inch of center which, if I shoot more (which I will enjoy all the more now) I probably could pull that in even more.

I feel that with a trigger job, I might be able to get that a bit tighter yet. I think I probably torque the stock a little when trying to squeeze off, thus throwing the shot just a touch. Either way, I am shooting better and things just felt better. I also did not feel that there was anywhere near as much sound blast as the 180s.

The nicest thing about going that way is that if I ever go out west for larger game or for some reason need to go back to the 180's, I have a gun that can do so, and would only need to resight if I was going to be shooting longer distances. At 100 yards, they are both dead on both windage and height.

I just want to thank you all again for your opinions, and viewpoints. I found them all valuable and very helpful in helping me deal with a situation I was quite unhappy with.

Steve

[Stu]

Hey Steve, just a thought, be aware of how you place your finger on the trigger. Be sure to use just the pad. I have seen guys press the trigger from the first joint. This really pronounces any flich you may have. Good luck - Stu

[RANGER]

All good info.

My solution would be an aftermarket BOSS type muzzle brake - but they are LOUD!! Nonetheless, I placed two Gander Mountain muzzlebrakes on my 7mm and .300 Ultra Mags and those bad boys have less recoil than does my .30-06, my two boys' agree!!!

A gunsmith can do wonders for your trigger, Gander can do both and, no, I DON'T WORK FOR GANDER!! ;-) ;-)

[Unlogged T-Mac]

Steve,
I went through that same scenario about 25 years ago. When I finally got to shooting good again it was by dropping down to a 25-06 with 117 gr, pills.

It was a good excuse to get more guns, too ;)

[UPMARK]

the browning trigger is adujstable very easily, there is a screw behind the trigger