Gun Dog Trainers

[wheels]

I have a German Shorthair that will be ready to begin training in a few months. I am considering sending her away to "college" to ensure I get what I want since this is my first bird dog, and training her myself has the possibility of being a crash course.

First - Any suggestions on whether to train her myself or having somebody that knows what they are doing train her. I know there is a lot of self satisfaction in training your own dog. My main goal is having satisfaction in the field though.

Second - I live in Cheyenne, Wy and would like suggestions on trainers in the "area". Doesn't have to be to close. Maybe from Omaha, Nebraska East, and all of western Kansas, and down to southern Colorado.






"Friends don't let friends fish for trout!"

[Birddog]

I've seen dogs that have been trained by "pro" trainers. Some turned out to be great dogs, some turned out bad. How does the trainer train? Iron fist? I've seen more than one that was scared of men when they were done. This one of the many reasons I chose to do the training myself. I have 2 German shorthairs that both turned out to be great dogs. What do you want to achieve with the training? When I started I wanted dogs that would heel on command, quarter at a reasonable distance, hold point, retrieve on land and water, release the bird in my hand, follow hand signals(work in progress). And of course sit,stay, ect. Training a dog isn't rocket science. Repeat,repeat,repeat,repetition, repetition! IMHO a training collar is a must. The satisfaction of watching my dogs work along side "pro" trained dogs and out hunting many of them puts a BIG smile on my face. If you have patience and some extra time you can train that dog yourself. GOOD LUCK
Pic of my dogs and I http://www.walleyecentral.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=1577&password=&sort=1&cat=500&page=1
BIRDDOG

FOR BETTER OR WORSE FISHING AND HUNTING COME FIRST

[Rick-Wy.]

Wheels,

I have hunted most of my life and never had a bird dog of mine own,
until Zach - which you have met - briefly.

I may have had a good student, but read a few books, I can recommend one in particular - use common sense and spend a lot of time - the satisfaction of having your personally trained dog is priceless.

From what I have seen, which is limited, the dog that is trained by the Owner has been the best dog in the field. Seem too easy for the personal trainer touch to be lost when you are the one in control. Your breed is high strung, so is the wire hair pointer (Zach) you will need to spend a good deal of time. If you are doubtful you have the time then maybe go another route. The "tools" you can learn it is not that difficult if you have a good pupil (that part is unknown that only time will tell).

I'd put Zach in the upland game atmosphere against any dog. And the best part he is the best buddy to the family - he could not be loved any more. That connection shows in the field with what he does to please me.

Rick

[DHotRod]

Wheels,
If your thinking about training your own dog the first thing I would do is buy Perfection Kennel Tapes or talk to Jon Hahns .He is one of the best trainer around.

One other guy that is not a heavy handed is Gary Ruppel. in Denver. I have worked with Gary and have seen him do things that most people could not do without an e-collar. I myself like that.

Someday when I'm not so busy Guiding Upland hunts ,I'm going to start training dog for other. I just enjoy seeing dogs develop into the best bird dog they can be.
If you need any number feel free to e-mail me @HighTailSetters@msn.com

Good Luck on your bird dog

[Trophy]

Wheels, I realize that training hounds is not quite as time consuming as training a versitile gun dog but they do share some common rules. The first rule is you want a dog who wants to hunt because he likes it, not because he thinks your gonna stomp him if he doesn't go for you. The second rule is DON"T TRUST "PRO" TRAINERS. That lesson cost 800 bucks on a dog that went to the pound because he was absolutely ruined when I got him back. Do it yourself. That way you know what you have, and what the dog is doing all through training.

[Ohio fisherman]

no intention of bashing pro trainers, but learn how to train your dog yourself. it will be good for both you and your buddy. you will be closer and understand each other better. also, some pros use the iron fist and other disturbing methods which would break my heart. i have never had your breed, but certainly you can do it.

i have two lab brothers who are 3 years old and right now at this very minute are asleep laying on my feet. they are awesome hunters on peasants, ducks, and geese.

the most important tools for training are patience and repetition. do what you need to bring out your buddy's instincts. remember you bought the dog to increase the quality of your life so enjoy training your little buddy. sorry for the commentary, but i am passionate about these little furry friends. gene hill said "whoever says that you cannot buy happiness, has never bought a puppy!"

take care, O F

[DuckCrusher]

I have both trained dogs, and had a dog trained. I"ve seen guys with dogs that came back to them, not finished, but more than capable of being a great hunter. The problem is, guys get them back from the trainer, they don't use the commands exactly as the dog was trained. They don't work with the dog as prescribed. I have one lab that was trained by a local who did a fine job. I work with the dog regularly during the season and during off season. She stays sharp, and her desire is great. My dog was not some high dollar lineage, but does come from good hunting stock. One of the guys I hunt with bought a high dollar pup, had it trained by the same guy and now it sucks. Why? The owner blames the trainer, but the owner does not command properly, nor the same way every time. The dog has turned into something near worthless....and it's sad. To me, it was the owner who screwed it up. My point is, if the trainer is good, I have no problem with it. Most dog problems are owner related.

[Trophy]

The problem with my dog was that when he came back he cowered at the slightest movement so he either was beat, or "fried" with a shock collar. I called 3 weeks into the training period and the guy said said my dog was doing great. I was feeling great at that point. When I went to get him the guy goes to get Pete and he runs into the kennel box, and I had to crawl in, and pull him out of the box. I asked the guy what happened to my dog and he wouldn't even look me in the eye. I asked him if my dog was doing so great 2 weeks ago why is he like this now? His answer was "he had my dog confused with another dog" Now come on now how many Walker coon hounds come through this world with a totally white face and his left eye sky blue?? There was no confusion, he ruined the dog. I'll never recommend anyone other than the guy who owns the dog to train it.

[O F]

Trophy - that is sad to learn what happened to your dog. Were you able to work him through that negative training experience? How is he now?

Again, I am not bashing all trainers, but some do very scary things to dogs. One FORMER employee of a bigtime pro trainer told me that the first thing they do to EVERY dog is to break the dog's sprit so that the dog will then be open to training. They do this by putting a slip knotted rope around the dogs neck and then raise the rope with a lever so that the dog must stand on its hindlegs or suffocate. They do this repeatedly until the dog is exhausted and can no longer stand. They find it necessary to do this on a daily basis to "bring the dog around". They also would shoot the dogs with very fine shot or a popper load. Also, they would use the e-collar on the highest settings and hold down the button. Too bad one of the dogs never killed the trainer!

I have found that if I train my dogs and they live with me and get almost constant attention, praise, exercise, and positive reinforcement they are wonderful creatures who are EAGER TO PLEASE. For correction on my labs, all it takes is a mild scolding and then they pout for awhile and then try to make up like a kid. My dogs are like kids and do everything they can to please me.

Good luck training your dog!

[Trophy]

O.F. the dog never came out of it, and ended up going to the pound. He was out of a dog named Lone Pine Thunder which is owned by Jim Lampman in Canada. He was very promising, and running/treeing with other dogs at 10 months. Overtime at work then was 7 days a week, 10-12 hour days,and I was convinced by another guy to try having this trainer finish him out because I didn't have the time and he was eligible to compete in P.K.C. Pup derbies. I tried it and paid dearly. The whole experience cost me about a grand when all was said and done. That includes the pup, vaccinations, registrations,the price for the "training" etc. Now don't get me wrong there are some very good dog trainers in this world. I just don't trust the guy who takes in 50 dogs at a time. How much 1 on 1 time do you think your dog will get. I also know the return client is gonna get "prime time" work on his dog, while the average Joe's dog gets the "leftovers"

[cfwalleye]

I like the idea of owner and dog being trained together. Sure its time consuming but thats probably something that should be thought of before getting the dog. I had the chance to listen to Dan Mar this weekend and really tried to get as much info as possible. I will be taking my dog to one of his multi-day seminars so that I can improve my training skills so continue my 6-month old Chocolate Lab's education.

[Ryan Thompson]

I have trained 6 dogs myself and they have all turned out good. I just purchased a "so called high powered pup" (time will tell). There is no better satisfaction then training your own dog. But with this dog I'm sending it to school, I consider myself a novice trainer that knows what to do, but the trainer I found is very proven and gave me a long list of refernences and I called every one, I did all kinds of research to find just the right one. My point I'm getting at is he is going my to allow me to come visit on many occasions to show me what he is doing and help me and the dog on the way. It takes a lot of trial and error and it might help you to go to a trainer that also trains you so to speak. But be very careful there are a lot more bad trainers then good ones.

[Trophy]

Ryan, what type pup did you get??

[Ryan Thompson]

English Pointer

[Trophy]

Nice Breed. Some coonhound breeders especially the English breed will throw an English Pointer in the bloodline to give a power boost to the strength of their nose.

[DHotRod]

OK Ryan, You have me wondering....... who's the great trainer?? I'm always trying to learn..... Are you going to Jim Gorley? (Sp)