View Full Version : going deep
steve dover
03-01-2002, 05:47 PM
I'm trying to set up equip for fishing Lake Erie this spring and summer and having a hard time gettting handle on when you use snap on weights or dipseys or DRs or bottom bouncers or lead core...do I need to buy and set up for all of these presentations when do you use each and what are pros and cons of each. Which are best overall methods if I concentrate on only a few out of practicality any help greatly appreciated, thankx...
ginamaria
03-01-2002, 07:41 PM
Steve,
I don't think you will need all of those. Some guys have all of it. But I think most people concentrate on one or two methods. I have downriggers for the 60-70ft depths but honestly I don't get many walleye with these. (good for steelhead though) For 50-60ft. The larger dipsies work well for me. They will get even deeper if you want. I use the smaller dipsies for the 30-50ft. Above 30ft snap weights work. I have wire line but I don't use it very often. I 've never used leadcore. There are probably as many ways to reach a certain depth as there are fisherman. Here's my suggestion for the basic necessities. Good linecounter reels with one of the superbraid lines, a copy of precision trolling, an assortment of big and small dipsies and snap weights. With this you should be able to get your offering to any depth your likely need. Then you can experiment with leadcore, wire or other techniques.
Gilligan
03-01-2002, 07:45 PM
Although dipsies are very effective on Erie I'll bypass comment and let the dipsie guys like ETT jump on that one as I don't fish them alot. My prefered method on Erie is running in line Offshore planer boards with either segmented lead core or snap weights. I'll stick my neck out and say that 85% of all walleye come off either dipsies or planer boards. Every year I take fewer and fewer on downriggers, last year none.
Ginamaria
03-02-2002, 08:01 AM
Gilligan,
I don't use lead core only because I'm really clueless about it. At my port (Ashtabula) everybody seems to be set up with big boards and wire or some sort of divers usually small dipsies. With big dipsies inside of the board lines. I don't run big boards but do run inline boards. One each side out side out side of my dipsies. They don't produce very well. I'm thinking I might like to run lead core off these.
Could you give us some details on how you use lead core. How many colors? What brand and Lbs test? What lures, deep or shallow cranks.?
Can you run harnesses or spoons? What kind of depths can you achieve? What depths do you find you need to get to in your area.
What kind of boat speed works best with lead core?
Boy I ask alot of questions, But any advice would help me and I'm sure many others.
stevefellegy
03-02-2002, 08:13 AM
My limited experience with leadcore, 18lb. test, is, at two miles per hour, with about any combo of bait such as cranks and spinners, one color per five feet of water is the norm. In other words, Fairport Harbor area might merit 9 or ten colors to get to the 45ft. level. Speed seems to dictate things the most with leadcore. Practice at various depths will clue you in quickly, as it is easy to 'read' leadcore hitting the bottem.
stewart
03-02-2002, 08:15 AM
I'm no lead core specialist, but sinking weights are very dependant on speed. Go real slow and it sinks to the bottom, real fast it skids on top. There is a speed/depth curve in Precision Trolling you might like to look at as a reference point.
Gilligan
03-02-2002, 10:04 AM
I'm sorta new to the lead core also. I prefished with PWT Angler of the Year Gary Gray last season at Dunkirk for 3 days. He asked if I used lead core and when I replied no he said "you soon will". My unspoken thoughts were YA RIGHT! Another gimmic to spend time and $ on. I now own 6 reels spooled with it!
Garys winning combo was a 50' leader, 6 colors of 18# lead core segmented in with backing on Offshore inline boards. He was running the shallow running Renosky stickbaits and figuring he was working at the 42' depth. Several of the pros were running flatlines of 8-10 colors with deep diving baits, I've got no clue what that does to the traditional dive curve. As others have said lead is very speed dependant. I've heard from 4-6' per color. Using crawler harnesses or shallow stick baits I can pull 6 colors off the boards at 2.2mph, probably could pull up to 8 at 1.6-1.8?
By the way.. Gary borrowed 2 of my reels to load this combo. When he returned them after the tournament my partner and I went out the next day and had the best day I've ever had on Erie.
For lead, no need for line counters as you know how much line out by # of colors. I spooled it up on some Penn level winds and some Okuma linecounters that work sporadicaly.
If you do a search here REW had a good lead core article that he pasted to the board.
FreeByrd
03-02-2002, 11:08 AM
Steve,
Where on Erie will you do most of your fishing so we know how deep you are talking about?
From May through early October I wouldn't want to be on the western or central basins without my dipseys and spoons. Guess I wouldn't want to be without my planar boards (with jet divers/spoons and some crankbaits) either but Dipseys would be my first choice to concentrate on for summer. Dipseys are the best method I know to get lots of lines in the water quickly and efficiently. Some charters run up to 5 dipseys a side. With some practice you'll be running 2 - 3 a side with no problem.
For Late March and April and then from Oct to Nov I wouldn't want to be without my planar boards and Reef Runner crankbaits.
For western and central basin the downriggers can be "nice to have" but not a necessity. I can't comment on the Lead Core.
Good Luck,
Steve
It all depends on how deep you want to fish, and at what speed. Most serious Erie Trollers including the good charter guys run boards (with cranks, wt assistes cranks, 20 or 30 jets, or size 0 Dipsts), and Big Dipsys (size #1). Lead core is not that popular, and riggers are more trouble than they are worth. n In the real deep water ( over 80') wire line Dipsys are more common than lead core.
In one of my seminars I handed out the pros and cons of all the methods you mentioned, but it is not on the computor.
Where's what I think,
under 30' unassisted cranks will get you there.
30 - 50' #1 Dipsys are the way to go
Deeper than 50' wire Dipsys or riggers, but I've caught fish at 75' depths with conventional Dipsy set ups.
If you have more questions, just ask.
good luck. Come on Spring!!!!!
Robertp
03-02-2002, 11:41 AM
Will the 20 and 30 jets run all right behind the inline planers or will they pull the inlines down?
Either one will kinda suck an in-line board in, and the 30 may indeed sink it at higher speeds. It's probably best to run Jets with full size skies.
steve dover
03-03-2002, 01:45 PM
I plan to fish western basin spring and early summer and eastern later in summer in between salmon on lake ont during july and aug.
When the walleye are up in the upper 30-ft. I like to use fish seekers and jet divers off in-lines or planer boards. When the walleyes are 50 ft. and below, down riggers produce 50% of my fish. I also use wire line rods, dipsies, and a handline. Ray
FreeByrd
03-04-2002, 08:58 AM
Steve,
Since you are after Salmon on Lake Ontario in July/August you probably already have or are planning on some downriggers. These can serve double duty when on the Eastern Basin of Erie. Can be used in the western end too but not necessary.
The dipseys will also serve double duty on Erie and Ontario for Eyes / Steelhead / Salmon. You can fish the large size 1 dipseys in all areas you mentioned. Spool up with one of the superbraid spectra lines for these. PowerPro is becoming one of the most popular lines for Erie. 30 pound test in 8 pound diameter is very pouplar but you may want to go to the next size up since you are hoping to battle a 40 pound King. My reels (mostly Diawa SG27s) are spooled with Whiplash 50 pound test / with 12 pound diameter as I fish Erie Western and Central basins for eyes and steelhead and also spend some time on Lake Ontario for Salmon and steelhead in August. Over the last 4 years I believe we have caught about an equal number of our Lake Ontario Salmon/Steelhead on the Dipseys as we have the downriggers although most of the big ones (over 25 # have come off the downriggers with Cut Bait rigs). Also you don't need to spend a fortune on dipsey rods. $35 to $40. I use the Okuma dipsey rods in 8 foot 6 inch for double duty on Erie and Ontario.
For April and then from Mid October on Erie, you are going to want some planar boards. Either the mast & ski big boards or the inlines will work. Since you fish East basin too you may just want to go with the mast & ski setup as it will allow you to run more things as you get into the trolling game more. I'm thinking of size zero dipseys, size 30 and 40 jets with weight, and of course the crankbaits either naked or with weights (can be snapweights or just a bead chain sinker up to a couple ounces in front of a leader).
So with all that said - you'll get the most bang for your buck from the dipseys. I wouldn't spend a fortune on the downriggers (there are almost always some deals on used ones). The more you get into it, you are going to eventually want the big mast & ski boards.
Denny Braun at the Sportsman's Outpost in Vermillion 888 855 9032 would be able to help you out with your equipment needs and he'll give you good advice.
Good Luck,
Steve Carlson
steve199132@yahoo.com