Ranger 620 or 621 for Great Lakes trolling?

[Gman621]

I know this has probably been discussed here about million times but it's not so much the overall length I'm concerned with it's the space from the helm/windshield/screen to the freeboard; in my world of fishing we like to refer to that space as the "dance floor" - I do lots of Great Lakes trolling specifically Lake Ontario for salmon and Lake Erie for 'eyes. I also trailer around in the fall to other smaller bodies of water for other species. I really do consider myself to be a multi-species fisherman.

Just thought add to the salmon fishing bit - I will need to equip the boat with 2 riggers and at least 2 dispey rods. Not sure about how I'd mount the riggers yet - either by a Berts Track transom board or mount a track at the back on each side and get the Berts swivel base riser. The dipsey's and additional rod holder that's easy; downeasters on the rails or Berts Tracks mounted to the rails.

I have been told that the space from the helm/windshield/screen back to the freeboard is larger on a 620 than a 621, is this true as I'm looking for as much "dance floor" as possible and can't find this info on Ranger's site.

Here's my dilema, purchased an '06 Lund 18 Fisherman new in '06, loved it (,,,and still do) till I spent a day bass fishing out of a 621! The ride is smoother in a Ranger than the Lund. I also believe the layout to be better for a multi-species angler and for the money I might as well get a smoother better ride along with a glass boat considering a simliarly equipped Pro-V won't be too far off a Ranger! It is also my understanding it takes more wind/waves to move a glass boat like a 620/621 around more than it does a Lund 18 Fisherman or similarly equipped Pro-V,,,thoughts?

There's also the bovious design difference, the between the 18 Fisherman I currently own with the high gunwales vs. the lower gunwales of the Ranger 620/621.

Now as I mentioned earlier I spend a good deal of time fishing salmon on Lake Ontario - anyone else out there run a similar boat for kings on Lake Ontario, if so what are your thoughts?

What about maintenance/upkeep on a fiberglass vs. aluminum?

I know Erie gets nastier quicker than Ontario cause it's shallower that I feel much more comfortable on Ontario when it starts to blow than out on Erie.

Should I have any real concerns trolling on either of the lakes out of a 620/621 that I may be over looking?

Any thoughts, info, suggestions, feedback is greatly appreaciated.

Cheers,
Lundfisher

[Crossin' Eyes]

I think that the one boat in the Ranger line you really should look at is the Reata 2050. Talk about a dance floor!!!
I know several folks with the 1850 Reata and even that boat is huge behind the windsheild, but the 2050 should have a better feel on big water.

Good Fishin'
Crossin'

[BW]

The Reata's have a different hull design then the 620/621's. I think they would do better on big water than a Reata. I moved from a 619 to the 1850 Reata and it is a totally different hull. I am happy with my 1850 and it takes water fine, but the 619 would take big waves better. I would look at a 621 for the big water you are talking about. It may be a little narrower than a 620, but the added length will help with big water. As far as freeboard, all that accomplishes is catching the wind and letting you get blown around a lot. You'll have to look at the boats side by side. You could also email Ranger and see what the space behind the console difference really is. The one advantage to the 620 is the batteries being in the floor and giving you more storage in the compartments. Have fun shopping!!

[Brad1]

Lake Erie will present you with offshore conditions for which you will need an offshore boat. A boat with a steep deadrise and alot of freeboard. When things really get ugly, you'd be thankful to have a self bailing liner. You need a boat that you'd be just as confortable taking out onto the Atlantic ocean because that's the same type of conditions Lake Erie will throw at you. Unfortunately, a Ranger is not an offshore boat. Last month, I saw several people fishing out of a Ranger about 15 miles North of Ashtabula. They were making the run back towards shore. Heading straight into solid 1 to 3 footers. While they looked safe, that boat definately did not run anything close to that of a deep vee offshore boat. It looked like a horrendously rough ride. And judging by the looks on the passengers faces, I could tell it was. Just recently, several gentleman died while fishing from a Ranger on Lake Erie. From what I understand, there was a bass tournament in Erie several years ago in which several Rangers were rendered swamped due to the conditions. If your gonna fish the Great Lakes, but a boat intended for offshore conditions.

[K Gonefishin]

Let me give it to you straight with the truth, not what some others may think or feel based on what they saw or think. First off the ride of a 621 is so by far superior than your 1800 Fisherman it's not even an equal comparison on big water (ask eyecrazy) . You do not need freeboard to be safe or feel safe on big water, I live on Erie and have fished in in my 621 in small craft advisory's more than I would have liked to and everything in between for over the past 2 years both in tournaments and fun fishing and never felt safe and I always get back to shore safe, dry without a sore back, if you know how to drive on big water it's probably one of the top 5 best riding 21 fters made on the market regardless of make or style. I walleye fish and salmon fish out of my boat and I love this rig, it's truly a multi-species boat with a great ride, enough room for 3-4 anglers, and you can do everything from king fishing to bottom bouncing in a river or bass fish breakwalls or inland waters. I just added Vector downriggers to my boat this year for Ontario Salmon fishing.

I went with 12 inch Bert's tracks and my buddy made me a custom riser to get the boom over the gunnels and the Vector's come with a swivel base. I ran wire divers off the 2nd Vector hod holder and off the Cisco triples I have mounted on my rails. For walleye fishing I also have 6 ram rods holders I use these for pulling bouncers and dispey's at slower speeds, at steelhead Erie or Ontario salmon speeds I use the aluminum rod holders for strenght. If you look in the Kgone photo gallery you will see how I have it set up. Running on Ontario is a cake walk compared to Erie on a rough day, Ontario's waves are spanned much further apart and very easy to run in, Erie is much choppier obviously on days but still a great ride without any pounding and when you want to fly wide open it's a very fun boat to drive, the 620 and 621 have tons of storage and are very easy to operate even with one guy if you have it rigged right, and you get a great trailer with it as well. The 620 and 621 rides are similar some say 621 for great lakes and some say 620 personal choice I guess.

After some of my aluminum Lund buddy's drove and rode my boat they sold or traded there rigs in for Rangers, they love them just as much as I like mine.

Let me know if you have any specific questions I'll be more than happy to help you out. PM me if you do.

http://www.walleyecentral.com/forums/album.php?albumid=72 Here are the pics of the layout with riggers and walleye set up as well.

[Gman621]

There is some good feedback here - thank you gents!

I only head out to Erie when I know it's going to be nice as I've got to run about 17-20 miles out and sometimes my fishing partners aren't big boaters like me.

I fish Lake Ontario most of the time cause it's in my backyard - 15mins down road and I'm there:rock-on: It's also a cost/energy vs. reward type thing!

Here's how I'd probaby end up equipping her with respect riggers etc minus the 3rd center rigger as I've got all the Berts accessories for my existing Lund 18 Fisherman -
http://myfishingpics.com/photopost48c/data//500/medium/621_with_Riggers3.jpg

What about maintenance; fiberglass VS. aluminum?

I also am leaning towards glass cause if it rains one night and I've forgot to cover it I don't have to worry too much about drying out the carpeted wood floor so the floor doesn't rot on me.

Hey Gonefishin, where about you located that you fish both Erie and Ontario?

Cheers,
Lundfisher

[K Gonefishin]

I saw that boat for sale at one time, he's got it rigged nicely, I wasn't to crazy about the big transom bar. I like being to access the entire transom without anything in my way. I picked up the 17 inch riser tracks which I plan on buying some accessories for.

I live in the Cleveland area, I mostly fish from the islands to conneaut, I just recently started Salmon fising all my friends fish out of Olcott and Point Breeze.

[perchjerker]

the Rangers like Kgone's are very nice no doubt.

The one thing I dont like is I like to be able to stand next to the gunnels in rough water and put my toes under the toe holds and lean against the waist high gunnels of my Grady White while setting lines, etc. That plus the high freeboards give me a very safe, secure feeling.

Of course the Grady is not as versatile as the Ranger, but I did not buy it for versatility.

Its a purebred big water boat no doubt about it.

[Hombre Robusto]

I've fished in, and owned, many, many boats over the years. I've been fishing Lake Erie and Lake Ontario since the mid seventies. I've had large, fiberglass boats, and I've had mid sized aluminum boats. I downsized from a 20 + foot fiberglass boat three seasons ago and bought a 19 foot Lund. The fit and finish is excellent. The quality is excellent. The layout is perfect (for my wants and needs). The ride is extremely dry. Unfortunately, it's also extremely rough. My forty two year old back can't take it anymore (due mainly to a car accident years ago). I pre-fished a tournament with K-Gone last spring (the actual tourney was called due to wave conditions). We went out in the morning in true 4-6 footers. I've been out in inclement weather more than my fair share of times, so it was nothing new to me. There was never one second during that day that I felt that my well being was in jeopardy, nor was I ever uncomfortable at how the boat (and it's captain) was handling the conditions. I was actually quite impressed and blown away at how the boat handled and reacted to the conditions. My back didn't bother me a bit at the end of that day. I have been in K Gones boat numerous times since then, as well as a few other Ranger boats.

Mine will be delivered just in time for ice out this coming spring.

[Gman621]

This is all great information, thank you everyone so far!

Hombre, thank you for sharing your experience in the Ranger with K Gone and comparing it to your Lund. Just out of curiosity which model is your Lund?

Regarding the "****pit" space difference I was asking about between the 620 and 621, I just got a reply back from Chris Fox, Process Enginner at Ranger and he says the 621 has 4 more inches of ****pit space over the 621, however the beam is the same.

I always thought the beams were different on those 2 boats, at least that's what Ranger's website tells us. I have replied back to Chris asking if this is something new for '09. Will advise.

Cheers,
Lundfisher

[K Gonefishin]

He has a 1800 Sport Angler I believe an 2006. I like the storage layout of the 621 better than the 620 and believe the "office" space for trolling in the back is a little roomier. Your posted 621 twice so not sure what Ranger told you about which has 4 inches more room

By the way I talked to some 621 owners that went with a 620 after they redesigned it and they went right back to the 621 a year later, tells you something about the ride comparison between the two models. I've ran side by side with a few 620 coming in for an FLW weigh in running hard, my bow planted down I look over and see a ton of 620 hull out of the water, which IMO would mean the 621 has more hull in the water, creating a better ride. Maybe someone who has owned both can chime in on which has a better ride of the two.

The 621 has a deeper keel which would be a better ride in rough water I could only assume, probably also why the 620 is a faster boat, actually alot faster seeing they aren't all that much different as far as weight, beam and length go.

[Hombre Robusto]

Hombre, thank you for sharing your experience in the Ranger with K Gone and comparing it to your Lund. Just out of curiosity which model is your Lund?



I own an '07 Sport Angler. I have ridden in just about every other model of Lund made (as well as every other make of aluminum rigs). I can honestly say that mine gives a rougher ride than all the others, most likely due to the windshield and control area being pushed forward to maximize the fishing real estate.

[Gman621]

Sorry, meant to say the 621 has 4 more "c ockpit" space over the 620 while they BOTH have the same internal beam dimensions.

I have since also spoken with Chris Fox over the phone later this afternoon about mounting downriggers on both the port and starboard side. He was most helpful and recommended me to mount them where the rear splash rails would go as the fiberglass there is thicker than 1.2" and I would be able to gain access to put a re-inforcement plate underneath.

That is interesting information to know K gone,,,,about hull depth vs. speed, while you also discussed storage layout. I'll have to study them both.

Cheers
Lundfisher

[Brad1]

. . . You do not need freeboard to be safe or feel safe on big water . . . http://www.walleyecentral.com/forums/album.php?albumid=72 Here are the pics of the layout with riggers and walleye set up as well.


You don't need free board to be safe on big water ? ? ?

That has to be one of the most questionable statements I have ever read on this board. And there have been some good ones.

Free board is one of the most important attributes of an offshore boat. If freeboard doesn't matter, please explain the design of every offshore oriented boat on the market. I guess none of those builders and their design architects know anything boats. All this time, they incorporated tall free board into their design when little did they know, they could have kept the gunwales low. Imagine that.

Explain why you never see bass boats off shore in the Atlantic ocean? I'll tell you why, with the exception of the occaisional Darwin award wanna be, anybody in their right mind realizes that a bass boat (ok. "Multi species" in this case, but still low freeboard) has a much greater chance of swamping in offshore conditions. Why is that? Low gunwales (ie. low freeboard). And anyone that's spent a considerable amount of time on Lake Erie will agree, when your 15 to 20 miles from shore on Lake Erie, you better be prepared for the same offshore conditions as you would encounter in the Atlantic ocean. The only difference is that on Lake Erie, your at the top of the food chain. If your going out on Lake Erie in a boat with low freeboard, stay close to shore. Don't become another statistic.

You don't need free board to be safe on big water. Gimmie a break.

[K Gonefishin]

I've been fishing lake Erie since I've been a kid and have been out in numerous small craft advisory's I'm talking monster walls of water where you can't see over the next swell coming at you and when your stomach drops when you drop off of one wave and go to the next from every wind direction possibly over the years, if you have the horsepower and the driving skills a Ranger boat will come back to shore every time and relatively dry, yeah you get sideways in 6-8 fters and your going to be up the creek but if you know how to drive in big water the boat is safe.

Most guys don't go out in waves larger than 4-6's fters so what does it matter anyways?

If you have never been in a Ranger on big water, you won't understand what I'm talking about. Hombre Robusto was with me during one of the roughest days I've been out on Erie and you heard what he said about feeling safe in the boat as well as my driving ability. Big water want make you become a statistic bad driving will. It's still a 21 ft boat that I know and every boat has it's limitations but will take the pepsi challenge with any other 21 fter on the market any day of the week regardless of conditions.

[Brad1]

I've been fishing lake Erie since I've been a kid and have been out in numerous small craft advisory's . . .

Most guys don't go out in waves larger than 4-6's fters so what does it matter anyways?

K Gonefishin, your conflicting yourself. On one hand you say that you have been out in small craft advisories, yet on the other you say it doesn't matter because most guys don't go out in waves larger than 4 to 6.

While I'm one of those guys that won't leave the dock if I know I'm going to face 4 to 6 footers, anyone that's been fishing Erie long enough certainly knows that there are days when you pull away from the dock when the weather and the forecast is good, only to be confronted with a wicked storm that seemed to come out of no where. I recall one day about 10 years ago when the marine forecast was calling for waves 2 to 3 foot, diminishing to 2 feet or less and a 20 percent chance of storms. We left the dock and sure enough the weather was as predicted. But a storm came up and it got exceptionally ugly. By the time we got the planer boards, downriggers, and lines in, the waves were almost up to 6 ft. About 1/2 way back to the dock, the waves were 10 ft. Yes, 10 footers can (and do) happen on Lake Erie. I was in a 22 ft closed bow (express style) boat, with full storm enclosure and self bailing liner. All passengers were wearing their life jackets. I would throttle up the face of a wave, and back off slightly going down the other side. Being careful not to back off too much as to let the boat get sideways. At one point, I stuffed the bow. There was no avoiding it. The waves were just too close and too tall. A massive wall of green water came up over the windshield and storm enclosure and onto the deck. Fortunately the self bailing deck did it's job. On that day, a 22ft offshore saltwater fishing boat was way too small a boat for the conditions. And I'm sorry, but a Ranger would've been swamped way before that. Forget dry, I'm talking flat out swamped. BTW, on that same day, there was a boat that day that lost contact with the Coast Guard. Last report was that they were taking on water.

Big water want make you become a statistic . . . .

Wrong. Big water WILL make you a statistic. And the more overconfident you become, the more likely you are to become one. Take for example the three guys that lost their lives last month on Erie. Come to think of it, weren't they in a Ranger.

Bottom line, as nice of a boat that Rangers are, and while they are certainly up for ugly conditions, they are still not an offshore boat and Lake Erie presents offshore conditions.

[perchjerker]

what i havent really seen addressed here is what if your motor quits in some of these super ugly conditions that erie throws at you? you always have to look at the worst case senario for safetys sake.

I would much rather be in my Grady than a Ranger type of vessel to ride it out until help arrives.

[K Gonefishin]

Look. I'm not going to get into a pissing contest if a Ranger can handle the perfect storm or not...The guy looking to buy one asked if they are a good boat for rough water we are saying yes and they are and they can get you safe back in normal fishing conditions, we're not talking about 8-10 fters here, nobody should be out in those conditions regardless of what kind of boat you have.

My point is a Ranger..although it has low freeboard is a fine fishing vessel for 85% of the time on Erie or Ontario if the Ranger can't handle it you should be back on shore not on the lake. Any boat can be swamped in nasty conditions, including a Ranger, and it has happened that I know. I'm not saying it's the best boat on the market for big water either. I have been out in my boat in very rough water and if something where to happen to my motor I would be in a very very bad situation but a guy in a 22-25 would be in the same situation...anything is possible that's for sure. I don't like to be out in waves larger than 6 fters for the saftey of my life or my friends just in case I were to get stranded, I always told my mom no fish is worth my life. When it's scary rough on Erie I wouldn't want to be out in any boat. I've been in 8-10 fters in a 30 fter with 4 ft of Freeboard and there was still a pucker factor and was glad we got back without any issues we hit a rouge wave the the whole 30 fter was **** near airborn. I wouldn't have gone out in my boat that day for sure.

So bottom line for a true multi species fishing boat in most conditions the Ranger is a fine boat and will get the job done and well, that's all I'm saying.

[bluegill 1]

Wow, talk about a heated topic.

This made me look into exactly what is a "Small Craft Advisory".

Here it is...
The National Weather Service does not specifically identify what constitutes a "small craft", although the United States Coast Guard informally assigns the designation to boats with a total length of less than 33 feet (10 m).

Being a recreational angler, I have found that in anything bigger than 3'ers, we spend more time "hanging on" then fishin.

Was down at the FLW when it was in Cleve, one day was very windy, I'm guessing 75% of the boats stayed inside the breakwall. Those that went out obviously knew how to handle big waves. And they went pretty far out to boot! The Lake was nasty that day.

Bluegill 1

[perchjerker]

Kgone-

I think you now summed it up very well. For a true multi species boat (which is what the orignal question was about) the Ranger is at the top of the list.

Sorry if I took it off topic. My Grady would not really make that great of a crappie or bass rig (but i would try it anyway lol)

[JJ Mac]

If I were to purchase strictly a walleye boat say for walleye tournament fishing, both inland and great lakes, the Ranger 620 and 621 would definately be right on top of my list. Great discussion on Rangers and the freeboard issue. Both arguements have merit...and I do agree that freeboard is really important for an offshore boat, however, for a boat that doesn't have much freeboard, the Rangers run incredibly well. For multi species however, that is having the "dance floor" you are describing and thick enough gunnels to mount a track system, the Rangers would not be on the top of my list. You definately have the right idea going with glass for running Erie. My only advice, if you are looking at a "walleye brand" of boat for multispecies, trolling 90% of the time, I would take a look at the layouts of the Warrior v2121 DC and the the Yarcraft 2095 DC. I've seen several Rangers rigged for multispecies (rod holders suitable for dipsys, riggers, etc.) and really haven't been impressed at all. Plus, I do not care for all the storage space on the sides of the rear of the boat for a multispecies application.

As far as track mount systems, I have a Pursuit, now known as Traxtech, that I am extremely happy with. You might consider comparing them to the Berts set-up.

Good luck whatever you decide and enjoy!