Why are OEM oil filters costly?

[retire55]

I own a 2007 15 HP Honda 4 stroke. During this time of year (winterization time), I get annoyed at the cost of an OEM oil filter ($11) compared to the cost of similarly sized automotive oil filters ($6). Although I haven't found it easy to find substitute oil filters, when I have, there haven't been any cost savings. Are there any technical reasons why these marine oriented oil filters are more expensive? Thanks in advance.

[grunny71]

Try a sieara filter about $3 bucks cheaper

[Vtec1]

As far as I can tell, the filters on the larger Honda's are identical to the automotive ones I buy for my Accord, which is the same engine as the 135-150HP. I bought a marine filter last year and it was idnetical to the car filter only it cost more than twice as much.

[yarcraft91]

I own a 2007 15 HP Honda 4 stroke. During this time of year (winterization time), I get annoyed at the cost of an OEM oil filter ($11) compared to the cost of similarly sized automotive oil filters ($6). Although I haven't found it easy to find substitute oil filters, when I have, there haven't been any cost savings. Are there any technical reasons why these marine oriented oil filters are more expensive? Thanks in advance.

My analysis- The performance requirements for a 4-stroke marine engine oil filter are no more stringent than for an automotive oil filter. If anything, the automotive filter has more stringent requirements due to harsher operating conditions.

Any real difference in vendor cost between the two would be due to the higher unit cost of selling marine filters into a market that is much smaller than the one for automotive oil filters.

[angler53]

In the 125 hours I have on my F150 over the last sixteen months, I have purchased three oil Yamaha filters. The first one I got at the dealer I bought the boat from. They got me for $32.95. The second one I paid $22.99, the last one which was this week, I gave $16.00 for it.

The Yamaha service manual calls for 100 hours or six months between oil changes. I logged 33.4 hours in the last six months and with the condition of the oil, I would prefer not going over 25 hours or three months.
I would really like to use an alternate oil and filter with the cost of Yamaha parts being so expensive, but due to some past warranty issues, It may behoove me to pay the price in order to keep the peace.

My first oil change cost me $125.00, the second one was $96.00, this week it cost me $72.00. All three of them included a filter, 6 quarts Yamalube and a quart of Ringfree. That, in my estimation is waterway robbery, plain and simply.

[seahorse]

the Yamaha F150-250hp oil filter is very expensive compared to others. Yes, it was about $25 for several years then recently they lowered the price somewhat.

Here is a link to show what the OEM Yamaha filter looks like internally compared to an off brand much cheaper filter. You be the judge.

http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=119832&start=1

[perchjerker]

My analysis- The performance requirements for a 4-stroke marine engine oil filter are no more stringent than for an automotive oil filter. If anything, the automotive filter has more stringent requirements due to harsher operating conditions.

Any real difference in vendor cost between the two would be due to the higher unit cost of selling marine filters into a market that is much smaller than the one for automotive oil filters.

Actually a marine engine operates in a much harsher environment.

The wear on a marine engine is equivelant to running your car constantly uphill for its entire life. I read this on the BoatUS site a while back in thier tech articles.

Also, people need to be aware of another thing when using an automotive type filter. Depending on the application, some filters are installed on a car upside down so they stay filled with oil. These filters have no check valve in them. Install the same filter so that its horizantal on a outboard, and oil can drain out of the filter when the motor is not in use and can starve the motor for oil when you start it while the filter is filling up.

So just be careful doing this

[seahorse]

Depending on the application, some filters are installed on a car upside down so they stay filled with oil. These filters have no check valve in them. Install the same filter so that its horizantal on a outboard, and oil can drain out of the filter when the motor is not in use and can starve the motor for oil when you start it while the filter is filling up.



The 4 cylinder Yamahas of 115hp on down use a horizontally mounted oil filter that does drain down. Each time you start the motor, the oil has to fill the filter before being delivered to the rest of the motor.

The F150 has an upside down filter that drains down also over a period of time, thus also having a delay of oil pressure when starting the motor up.

[MarkG]

The Yamaha filters are notorious for draining back. I don't know if that is intentional,but can be a pain as far as getting accurate dipstick readings. If you check oil after motor has been sitting for a long time,it can look high. Can often be confused with "making oil" issues.

[John in Mn]

PJ hit the nail on the head. This is exactly what I was told by a certified Mercury tech. You may get away with it for a year, maybe the entire time you own the motor. But eventually it will catch up to you.

"Also, people need to be aware of another thing when using an automotive type filter. Depending on the application, some filters are installed on a car upside down so they stay filled with oil. These filters have no check valve in them. Install the same filter so that its horizantal on a outboard, and oil can drain out of the filter when the motor is not in use and can starve the motor for oil when you start it while the filter is filling up."

[yarcraft91]

[QUOTE}Actually a marine engine operates in a much harsher environment.
[/QUOTE]

PJ- I thought about that before I wrote my note. Here's why I think differently- but certainly nobody has stamped "OIL FILTER EXPERT" on my forehead.

Auto engines operate in more extreme temperatures (-20F air temps, for example), run higher oil temperatures (based on the observations that fuel dilution is a frequent complaint with 4-stroke outboards, not so much with autos and that marine engines are thermostatted 50-70 degrees F below auto engines), operate in dusty,dirty environments and the auto filter is typically run more hours before being changed out. My service manuals show that oil pressures in my auto engines run equal to or higher than my 4-stroke OB engine. Based on that, I don't see any technical requirements that would be more stringent for a marine oil filter. I hear your point about the anti-drainback valve, but many auto oil filters have them too.

I agree that a marine engine works harder than an auto engine, but I don't know why that's any harsher for the oil filter.

All that said, I still buy the Mercury or Quicksilver filters for my 4-stroke Mercury OB, because I am confident those products have been built for my application.

[OOC]

I'm not going to claim to be an expert on oil fillters or oil.I do know that no filter will remove moisture or fuel contamination from the oil.The oil recommendation for the Yamaha 75 I service is the same for the autos I service in my auto shop.The filter is the same as many Nissan models and costs $2.61 at the Napa store.That's less then $15 for oil and filter.Change the oil in your o/b when or before service is due and chances are you'll never have a problem regardless of which oil and filter you choose.Fuel and water contamination is the real enemy.

[Phil T]

The filter for my '97 90hp Honda is the same as was used on the Honda Civics in years past. It's not a big problem to cross reference automobile oil filters.
Every dealer has a reference book.
Most sizes have filters with and without ant-flowback devices in them. Read the box. I use anti-flowback filters on everything I own.

[perchjerker]

The filter for my '97 90hp Honda is the same as was used on the Honda Civics in years past. It's not a big problem to cross reference automobile oil filters.
Every dealer has a reference book.
Most sizes have filters with and without ant-flowback devices in them. Read the box. I use anti-flowback filters on everything I own.

Im not saying they dont

I am just saying know what you are buying

[Phil T]

You don't think that engine manufacturers actually make their own filters, do you?
Like automobile windshields, seats, etc., they are purchased from an outside supplier.
Many years ago, Consumer Reports tested automobile oil filters for how fine a particle and the total dirt load each brand would remove. Amazing, but most brands tested identically to Purolator filters, at the time the largest filter manufacturer in the nation. Some other brands were better in both measurements, some worse.
They need to test these again, since the technology has changed a lot, generally for the better.

[perchjerker]

You don't think that engine manufacturers actually make their own filters, do you?
Like automobile windshields, seats, etc., they are purchased from an outside supplier.
Many years ago, Consumer Reports tested automobile oil filters for how fine a particle and the total dirt load each brand would remove. Amazing, but most brands tested identically to Purolator filters, at the time the largest filter manufacturer in the nation. Some other brands were better in both measurements, some worse.
They need to test these again, since the technology has changed a lot, generally for the better.

if you addressing this to me,

no, I dont think they make thier own filters and never said they did. I know all about parts and suppliers, I work for one.

for an interesting site on oil filters, http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

[Phil T]

Perchjerker,
I'm not directing any of my comments at anyone, just presenting information to anyone who reads the forum. Trolls are never welcome in any forum.
The information I've gleaned from Walleye Central has been valuable to me over the years, I merely try to reciprocate.

[tbomn]

I run a Yamaha F150. I use Pennzoil oil and Wix filters, recommended by a Yamaha factory tech. Seems to work for me, 750 hours on the motor. I change oil every 100 hours. I use the same oil in my T-8, change it 3 times a year.....

[angler53]

I run a Yamaha F150. I use Pennzoil oil and Wix filters, recommended by a Yamaha factory tech. Seems to work for me, 750 hours on the motor. I change oil every 100 hours. I use the same oil in my T-8, change it 3 times a year.....

I certainly wouldn't hesitate to use the Pennzoil but no one stocks around here. I've found it at Wal-Mart a few times but there's never more than 2 or 3 quarts on the shelf.

You say you change every one hundred hours. I only ran 107 hours the fist year on my motor. The oil I changed out last week was 6 months and 35 hours and it was without doubt in need of change. I'm setting mine up on 3 months or 25 hours, so I need something more economical.

I read the article on the Hull Truth about filters. I came away convinced that the Denso filter is superior. It's not superior enough to pay $32 for one, though. I gave $16 for one last week and that's still a little steep for an oil filter. You look on Denso website and $6.95 is the most expensive automotive oil filter they advertise.

I can't find a cross reference for the Yamaha 69J, but still trying. I know a lot of car engines have side flow filters so I would just about bet that there is an alternative. I took the filter to the Toyota parts counter and they couldn't find anything to cross reference with #115010-6001 on the filter.

Good running little motor, I'm well pleased with it.

[GP-NJ]

the Yamaha F150-250hp oil filter is very expensive compared to others. Yes, it was about $25 for several years then recently they lowered the price somewhat.

Here is a link to show what the OEM Yamaha filter looks like internally compared to an off brand much cheaper filter. You be the judge.

http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=119832&start=1

The comparision illustrated is skewed to favor the OEM marine filter. This comparison does not compare apples to apples. To be credible the test should compare a Denso mfr'd Yamaha marine OEM filter to a Denso mfr'd automotive OEM filter. ie. Denso mfrs. automotive oil filters for Toyota.

http://densoproducts.com/product.asp?productCategoryID=3

[tbomn]

I certainly wouldn't hesitate to use the Pennzoil but no one stocks around here. I've found it at Wal-Mart a few times but there's never more than 2 or 3 quarts on the shelf.

You say you change every one hundred hours. I only ran 107 hours the fist year on my motor. The oil I changed out last week was 6 months and 35 hours and it was without doubt in need of change. I'm setting mine up on 3 months or 25 hours, so I need something more economical.

I read the article on the Hull Truth about filters. I came away convinced that the Denso filter is superior. It's not superior enough to pay $32 for one, though. I gave $16 for one last week and that's still a little steep for an oil filter. You look on Denso website and $6.95 is the most expensive automotive oil filter they advertise.

I can't find a cross reference for the Yamaha 69J, but still trying. I know a lot of car engines have side flow filters so I would just about bet that there is an alternative. I took the filter to the Toyota parts counter and they couldn't find anything to cross reference with #115010-6001 on the filter.

Good running little motor, I'm well pleased with it.


Cross reference choices for the F150:

These Oil Filters
have 3/4" x 16tpi threads,
8 psi by-pass valve,
anti-drain back valve.

Recommended filters in blue. Available filters include

Purolator PL10241 / PL25230
Mobil1 M1-102
Bosch 3330
AMSOil SMF 133/134/135
Baldwin B1413
Fram PH6022, PH6065A
Hastings LF576
NAPA 1348
Purolator ML16822
WIX 51348



Many Yamaha ATV's and OHV's use the same filters as the outboards.

[angler53]

Cross reference choices for the F150:

These Oil Filters
have 3/4" x 16tpi threads,
8 psi by-pass valve,
anti-drain back valve.

Recommended filters in blue. Available filters include

Purolator PL10241 / PL25230
Mobil1 M1-102
Bosch 3330
AMSOil SMF 133/134/135
Baldwin B1413
Fram PH6022, PH6065A
Hastings LF576
NAPA 1348
Purolator ML16822
WIX 51348



Many Yamaha ATV's and OHV's use the same filters as the outboards.

Thank you for the list. I think I've seen that before and saved the list for future use. Yamaha had to replace the powerhead at fifteen hours, total time sense new. I caused that to be a very displeasurable experience for all involved. I was told it may help me in the long run to stay with Yamaha 69J & Yamalube, at least for the duration of the warranty period.

I want to buy a Denso 115010-6001 from auto parts for $6 like I buy NGK plugs for $4 at auto parts when they are over $12 at the marine parts supply.

[Vtec1]

Wow, lots of responses to the filter debate! I should note that I only use Honda brand filters on my vehicle and boat, no aftermarket brand. The Honda filters appear to be much better quality to aftermarket filters and again, appear identical for both autos and marine. I'm not too cheap to buy a good filter but if it's the same thing I might as well pay the cheaper price at the auto dealer. If anyone knows for sure they are different in any way I would welcome the info.