Rigging Question - 3 batteries - 3 bank charger - 24V TM

[punch1]

I have gone through about 100 posts on a related question and am more confused than ever. Can someone make this easy to understand?

I have a 24V Minn Kota trolling motor with the two batteries for this and a third battery for starting the boat. I have a Guest 10/10/3 on-board battery charger. Right now I don't have any outlets or plugs for the trolling motor on the boat but it appears I have a four wire harness for the bow mount trolling motor. (red, orange, black & black with a blue stripe)

How do I properly wire this and retain my ability to leave it all as is when I plug in the on-board charger?

Thanks for your patience!

[RANGER]

punch1,

I'm not trying to be a smart sh-- but if you order these items from Cabela's they contain instructions for you.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal-pod.jhtml?id=0001305&navAction=jump

Marinco makes the serial connection possible at the plug instead of the batteries. I prefer this way because the batteries are completely separate to each other for easy use of your charger and the connections are separate too. Once the trolling motor is unplugged the batteries are separated.

The serial connection is:

Batt #1 positive, connected to batt #2 negative.

Batt #1 negative, connected to batt #2 positive.

Trolling motor postive (red) wire, to positive of batt #1.

Trolling motor negative (black) wire, to negative of batt #2.

This is how you would accomplish the serial connection AT THE BATTERIES. Marinco accomplishes the same thing but inside the plug with an internal strap (jumper, cross connection, whatever) option.

Hope this helps you this time.

Try to picture it like a multi-battery tubular flashlight. When you load the flashlight you drop the batts in on top of each other with the nipple of the batts UP, one on top of the other. What this does is place the batts in series because the nipple on top (+) touches the bottom (-) of the battery above it in the stack making a positive to negative contact throughout the tube. The connection to the switch and bulb are made from EACH END of the stack of batts! You're, essentially, doing this same thing with the boat batts!! You do this AT THE BATTERIES or AT THE PLUG.

[punch1]

Ranger,

It appears one of the archived post was mis-informed or perhaps I read into it the wrong way. It mentioned something about having to disconnect the jumper between the two batteries when charging. I am trying to avoid that and it appears the Marinco plug will do that for me. What are the real advantages to connecting in series at the plug versus connecting at the batteries.

On that same note, why would you not want to connect the trolling motor directly to the 2 batteries and save the $70 they get for the plug/receptacle?

I hope I'm not making the issue more cloudy, but I need to justify to myself spending the extra $100+ for the plugs, receptacle and circuit breaker and before dropping that kind of money I want to make sure I understand why.

Thanks

Pat

[punch1]

In addition to my questions in Post #3, what do I do with the four wires that are harnessed in my boat? Just use one red and one black. I think PerchJerker addressed this not too long ago, but I am unable to find the thread. I have been up the last 4 hours reading up on this and am more confused before I began reading!!!

Thanks again,

Pat

[perchjerker]

Hi buddy.
My good friend Ranger spelled it out well.
As I see you situation, the reason to get the Marinco setup is to use the existing harness you have. If you dont what to spend the money for the Marinco setup, my suggestion is to run 6 gauge wires from you bowmount to your battery setup, then hook the batteries in series at the batteries. You could then install a Perco or Guest style cutoff switch for charging.
If you dont have any 6 gauge wire and your batteries are in the back, by the time you purchase wiring, terminals, socket,plug, cutoff switch, etc, you may be looking at the same price as the Marinco setup and you still have to run new wiring attach terminals, etc. If you batteries are near your motor, that would change things.
As far as the charging issue, I just unplug my motor when charging. Since my motor is on a removable brkt, I am not worried about forgetting to unplug it because I remove the motor from the boat when I am through fishing.
Hopefully this clears it up a little for you. Feel free to drop me a line if you need to.

[RANGER]

>Ranger,
>
>It appears one of the archived post was mis-informed or
>perhaps I read into it the wrong way. It mentioned
>something about having to disconnect the jumper between the
>two batteries when charging. I am trying to avoid that and
>it appears the Marinco plug will do that for me. What are
>the real advantages to connecting in series at the plug
>versus connecting at the batteries.

The REAL advantages of connecting at the plug are:

1) Convenience. You're not messing with jumpers in the battery well every time you turn around. Every time you need to open the connection, in the batt well, you chance messing up another wire, lead, connection, etc. to another piece of equipment on the boat (remember - if it ain't broken, don't fix it), or, in other words - why would you want to mess with all those amps and volts when you don't have to???

2) Once you unplug the trolling motor all the leads for all the batts ARE SEPARATE!! That makes hooking up the charger and individual batt maintenance a no - brainer!!


>
>On that same note, why would you not want to connect the
>trolling motor directly to the 2 batteries and save the $70
>they get for the plug/receptacle?


More efficient set up:

Most batts are in the rear of the boat, or at the very least in the center of the boat. The wires that come off the batteries start losing their ability to carry the maximum volts/amps with every inch of wire length. The further away the motor is the more loss will occur in the WIRES. The higher the voltage, the faster it loses its ability to carry the AMPS to make the motor run. I'm sure, in your lifetime, you have picked up an electrical appliance and read the instructions for MINIMUM wire gauge/length that you can use. This is the reason - if you are carrying 12 volts, 15ft as opposed to 24 volts for the same distance/gauge, you have less loss at 12 volts then you do at 24 - it's the nature of the beast!! (You wouldn't try to run a room air conditioner off of a lamp extension cord, right? Same thing here!) By connecting at the plug (12 volts each side) you are carrying as much power as is possible, from the batts to here, so that you can run the motor at it's most efficient level. With 12 volts in each side, you plug the TM into the receptical and - by George, thanks to the Marinco plug - you have a nice clean, maximized, 24 volts going into the motor! Read the instructions for the TM for their recommended wire specs. I, personally, wouldn't go less than 6 gauge but prefer 4 gauge or larger! Depends on the motor requirements and length of wire needed.

Not to be analogous, but, try to picture VOLTS as a river - a means of carrying something. Now, picture the AMPS as logs on the river. In order to carry a bunch of logs the river has to get bigger and/or move faster (size of wire and number of volts)! There are limitations: River depth, width, banks, islands, etc. that RESTRICT the FLOW, therefore, you can only push so many logs into the river before you get a log jam - same thing here: you can only put so many AMPS into the VOLTS and not have it fry the motor or wires!

Worth 70 bucks? Maybe not, but then why did I buy the X 15 rather then the 65????????? Or the Sieko instead of the Timex??????


>
>I hope I'm not making the issue more cloudy, but I need to
>justify to myself spending the extra $100+ for the plugs,
>receptacle and circuit breaker and before dropping that kind
>of money I want to make sure I understand why.
>


You're not, BUT it is a decision YOU have to make. IMHO I try to minimize the WORK so that I can enjoy the MOMENT. How much is it worth to me - A LOT!!


>Thanks
>
>Pat


Sorry for the lengthy response. Take care!

[RANGER]

>In addition to my questions in Post #3, what do I do with
>the four wires that are harnessed in my boat? Just use one
>red and one black.


No, you would use all four of them but carry only 12 volts ON EACH SIDE, meaning, you're remotely placing two 12 volt systems at the receptical (batt #1, + / -, on one side and batt #2 + / -, on the other side of the receptical). This will allow the Marinco plug, through the internal jumper, rearrange the two 12 volt systems into one 24 volt system for the motor.



>I think PerchJerker addressed this not
>too long ago, but I am unable to find the thread. I have
>been up the last 4 hours reading up on this and am more
>confused before I began reading!!!


Perchjerker did discuss this. As I said earlier, the receptical and plug will have detailed instructions on how to wire this all up, if you choose to go that way!


>
>Thanks again,
>
>Pat

[whitetips]

I will give you an example of how my Warrior 1891dc is rigged for On-board charging with a 2 bank or 3bank, also while running with the Big Motor . First Warrior boats have a Marinco 4 wire harness to the bow, to a rear receptacle and to 2 Batteries, in addition there is a wire set from the main battery to a receptacle that you can jumper to trolling motor batteries that allows charging at a 40Amp rate to all three batteries, You cannot be in a 24V connection when doing this.
I also had special rigging put in that allows jumpers to any trolling motor battery independently
in case I need juice for the starting battery, this also allows charging on the run to one of the trolling motor batteries with a jumper, I have 3 sets of jumpers , one ihas a diode inline to switch if charging and my trolling motor is plugged in, the other is a plain jumper no diode relay. The third jumper is the warrior charge panel jumper, so the bottom line in this
I have independent charging 12V to all batteries when running, at home or even on the road
if an inverter was installed. Use your harness.
PWT Pro
#265

[punch1]

Thanks everyone. It took a while, but the lttle light bulb in my head finally lit up! I guess what was confusing me the most was my misunderstanding of Marinco's instructions. It is suppose too be two wires to the plug and four wires to thr receptacle like you tried getting through to me.

So this does bring up one more question. Do I now have to install circuit breakers on eack of the two positive battery posts?

Thanks again!

Pat

[punch1]

OK, I have Cabelas on my other web page and am ready to place the order but I need this last question answered.

Do I now have to install two circuit breakers, one on each of the positive battery posts?

[T-Mac]

Black to neg on one of the troll batteries/ Red wire to + on same one.

Orange and blk/blue wires go to other battery.

This is a "Rig-Rite" system you described, so... use a "Rig-Rite" 3 wire male plug for the troll motor leads.
You make 24v ...or 12v... which ever you want, at the plug that gets hooked onto the troll motor leads. (The wires coming off your troll motor, itself.) Hook orange of the plug to troll motor red lead...and black to black. Leave the 3rd wire (red) on that plug unhooked, but taped. (You'd use it instead of the orange, if you only wanted 12V)
Now you can hook your charger up and charge at 12 to each battery...yet draw 24 at the troll motor.

Just unhook your troll motor when you charge. You'd not damage anything by leaving it plugged in..with this system,....you just get no charge.

[Jim Kiehne]

YES!!! You need to protect EACH circit so that in case of a short the circut breaker or fuse can protect the system!

[punch1]

Thanks for all the help everyone. Got everything ordered except the circuit breakers. I'm going to have to get some but hate the idea of shelling out anothr $80 for the pair from Cabelas!

Pat