Front Drag or Rear Drag

[Paul]

Which do you prefer - is one better than the other or is it just personal preference? I have heard sometimes sand and other debris can get into rear drag reels when sitting in the bottom of a boat.

[stevefellegy]

Not trying to be "smart" or anything, lol, but I and most of the
money fishermen don't depend on the drag. I tighten mine up all the way, to be forced to "back reel" in place of gambling that the drag is set right. Although at first thought, maybe intimidating, it is very easily done in an orderly fashion, WITHOUT any factors such as drag settings or dirt in the drag or....
BACK REEL!
My preference for drag controls, if I used it, would be in the front because if I needed to ajust it in the heat of battle, it is easily accessed there.
BACK REEL!

[WAeyes]

I will respectfully disagree with needing to backreel. I absolutely have never had to backreel. If my $100 plus can't by me a drag I can rely on then I need to find a new reel.

I prefer the front drag models as they seem to be of better quality. The Shimano Stradic for an example has an outstanding drag that has never let me down fighting fish of all sizes.

I do check my drag several times though to make sure it is where I want it, especially when you first begin fishing for the day.

Plus that sound of the drag screaming just can't be replaced for heart thumping excitement! Now I'm getting all fired up...I got to go to work.

[Jim Ordway]

As I recall, the front drag system has a larger contact space, that allows for more longevity and smoother operation. I think the old rear drag arguement was that you can adjust the drag on the fly vs reaching around front while fighting a fish. Being that you set your drag for the test line and fish, adjusting need not be done "on the fly" anyway.
Take care,

[Kroe]

Never heard of the back reel technique before, interesting... I have always preferred the back drag (Shimano Fightin' Drag). I preset the drag so that I will usually be in the middle zone AFTER the hookset. I say after because I will initially have the drag set on the strongest position for the hook set and then quickly back off to the pre-set middle position for the fight. I always use 6-lb. test mono.

[RANGER]

I agree with WAeyes - if my money can't get me a GOOD drag, I'll by some other brand. I have no real preference for front or rear drag, just so long as it WORKS!!! ;-)

Steve - I do alot of backreeling, too. More than I ever imagined, until I bought a Quantum Hypercast with the "automatic antireverse"! Drove me flippin' NUTS!!! I RARELY pick it up anymore and wished I had put the money into another Shimano!!!! :7

[flyman]

I too respectfully disagree about back reeling.

An example for comparison: how many people have baitcast reels that backreel? You also don't see fishermen who go after fish that fight harder than walleye (I'm thinking saltwater fish, steelhead, etc.) back reeling. The way I see it, there is a certain amount of tension that can occur in the line before one of two bad things happens (the hook pulls out or the line breaks). As long as the tension doesn't go beyond that line, I'll probably land the fish. I want the tension as close to that line as possible at all times, but still ensuring that it does not go over that line. That allows the fish to be landed as quickly as possible, which gives the fish less time to throw the hook or wrap it around something. A good, smooth drag performs that task very nicely. The "start up" of the drag is also very important. I may be wrong, but I find it hard to believe as constant a tension can be achieved by back reeling. To me, that means back reeling requires one play the fish longer than necessary, which will result in fewer landed fish. A good (key word being good) drag also reacts instantaneously to what the fish does. Back reeling relies heavily on the reaction time of the fisherman, which is at best only equal to a good drag. Just my opinion. You can tell I've got cabin fever, because I've thought about this kind of stuff all winter.

I prefer front drags, as they seem to perform better than rear drags. I've also been very impressed with the drag performance of the Abu center drags, which are easier to get at than front drags. If only they weren't so heavy in the smaller sizes.

Again, just my opinions. Do whatever catches fish for ya.

[Homer]

My walleye reels double as steelhead reels, so I rely a lot on my drag systems. I use both rear drag (old Garcia Cardinals) and front drag (Daiwa SS) reels. It is a little easier to adjust the rear drag while a fish is screaming, but I believe the quality of the drag system is a lot more important than where the adjustment is located.

[Jim Carroll]

I'll add this- I think its very important that a spinning reel has an excellent drag when jigging with fireline to insure consistent hook sets.

[stevefellegy]

Very interesting replies to the "back reeling" suggestion I conveyed in my previous communique in this 'drag' subject. Of course, I have led everyone astray from the original "front or rear drag" control inquiry. But....maybe a good place to dicuss drags in general. So....
"back reeling relies heavily on the reaction time of the fisherman, which at best is only equal to a good drag", is a dangerous assumption. The drag is limited to whatever that fisherman sets it at. Unfortunately, a fish, as it fights, especially at the boat, reacts in various speeds and power. The human element, if utilized through back reeling, can react to ALL of the fishes actions, where the drag has to, for one, be in perfect, clean working order, and also has to be manually adjusted to various tensions per the fishes' size and strength, relative to line strength and the flesh toughness that the hooks are stuck into.
In reference to baitcasters, "free spooling" (thumbing the reel),the reel is what we do instead of depending on the drag.
If you ever have a chance to experience what it is like, adjusting a drag or just wondering if it is set right, as you fight a $50,000 walleye, I hope you at least consider the above advice. Or maybe just the BIGGEST walleye you ever have on your line....

When my life, I mean money, is on the line, I'm gonna back reel!

[Bob]

FYI: Mark Sosin from Saltwater Journal once demonstated an interesting technique for setting your drag and the effect of leverage. He used a digital scale and set the drag at 1/4-1/3 of the lines rating while pointing the rod directly at the scale. Then when he pulled against the scale with the rod at a right angle to the scale the displayed weight doubled. It demonstrated the difference between the force on the line at the reel vs the force on the line outside of the rod. It also exhibited why when a fish makes a run you should drop your rod tip and bow to the fish.

[risor39]

Nice one Bob those salties can teach us a thing or two after all.Keep your line wet.

[stewart]

Bob makes a great point. Drag isn't everything. Saltwater anglers can teach us a lot about the importance of rod angles when playing fish. I know in the river current a steady pull actually takes longer since the fish just acts like an underwater planer board. Flip the rod downstream, unbalance the bugger, and in he comes. In the boat I like to keep that fish square, those weird angles near the boat are killers...

I'll agree with Steve about backreeling. I don't think it babies fish. It's just your more in control of when you want to apply that pressure. Constant pressure means pressure at the wrong time at times, and more popped off hooks.

The argument that since saltwater anglers don't backreel we shouldn't doesn't make sense to me. Sounds like a 'planes are riveted so your boat should be too' type deal ;). It's not an option for them because of the power of their fish. It is an option for us.

[iamwalleye1]

I have tp say I prefer the front drags! I have had good luck with shimano's. The stradic work great and the sustain is tops!

[Jay]

I agree with Steve 100% on backreeling. However, I do set my drag to slip (rather than crank it down tight) and rely on the drag for average fish. But as soon as a good one is hooked - I flip the backreel switch. Walleyes don't make long screaming runs like a salmon or saltwater fish and can be easily backreeled for a few feet. I'm not worried so much about the line breaking as I am about pulling the hook out. I believe MANY big fish are lost because people rely too much on their drag and put too much pressure on the fish. Doesn't take much to pull out a #6 or #8 hook or even a jig on a poorly hooked fish.

[Cangl]

Rear drag are heavy compared to front drags thats for sure. When casting most species I have always set it for both types of reel well above breaking point for the hookset alone. Back reeling front drags I have bloodied my pinky as I used to (and still would) perfer to aply pressure rattatatt that way. But as for the advantage of instant anti-reverse, should my hand slide of the handle whether casting or jigging after hours of fishing which happens all to often in the cold the rear drag provides "mindless" hooksets and I seldom ever use stickum on handles anymore. A good rear drag set well above breaking point can be dropped down to normal or below normal setting with the rear switch, the Symetre has a red line point that it stops at when adjusted properly there is a trick to it. Most of the economical rear drags tend to loosen on a good run and knob turn by clicks up and down. Stick em good and down shift then power up on the curves, 2 speed's on down the road. I have lost fish well shifting but I have lost fish well not as well.

[T-Mac]

Front. It has a bigger surface. I do back reel, too.

[tj1n]

Buy Shimano Stradic's front or rear drag setups and you won't worry about it again. However, I frequently change my drag in the middle of the fight when there's a hog online.

Travis J.

[BD]

Back reeling is a good method of playing fish but having the drag down tight isn't something I would recomend. As a human with reflexes that cannot react fast enough, at times, to prevent hook pull out or line breakage a good drag is a must. I have also seen many fishermen holding the rod in a death grip. The rod is an extension of your arm and wrist and should be used as a shock absorber when the fish makes those last desperate turns / runs.

[FROGMAN]

Without a doubt my preferrence is front drag as they tend to have more surface area than comparable rear drag models, BUT.......I have to agree with Steve on the back reeling when money is on the line!

I set my drag for the anticipated use, and when I'm fighting a fish I usually slip the anti-reverse off. Years ago when I first started fishing for Steelhead most of the reels on the market that I could afford did not have quality drags on them, and a rampaging Steelhead would eat it for lunch. My older cousin introduced me to back reeling, and after some practice I never lost another fish to a sticky drag.

It has become natural for me to backreel whenever I feel a good fish anymore, don't even think about it.

Tight lines

Keith Segar
NPAA #260

[eyewitness]

Lots of good points for both front and rear drags here. Fronts definately are going to typically do a better job than the rear ones due to the surface area, etc...However, I have to support Steve 100% on this issue of back reeling. Regardless of how much money you spend on a reel (We are talking spinning reels here guys), the fact remains that when playing a fish it isn't going to be a perfect world out there. You can adjust your drag all the time and it still can only respond to what is happening at that particular moment and the conditions it is put under in a one dimensional manner. Changes in temp. from Am to PM throughout he day, whether your rod has been in and out of the sun, being used in an on and off again rain, distance of line between the fish and your rod, and other seemingly "small" factors can and will adversly affect the perfomance of even the best reels available. Another thing that happens when playing a fish that a lot of folks don't consider is that when tension is put on the spool, whether it be from a fish, or even from yanking on a snag to get it free at any given time of day, is that the line will get buried in the backing below it(sometime a little, sometimes a lot)and your drag can't compensate for this on the fly. Combine all these reasons with the reasons that Steve has already stated about how well the hook may be set in the fish, etc...and there is only one failsafe method. Backreeling. Period. Once you learn to do it effectively it is almost failsafe IMHO. Oh, another thing that kills me about being drag dependant. Watching people complain about line twist. Every time you reel when that drag is slpping equates to line twist. There is NO way around that fact. I've heard the arguments for using drags too many times, but I'll never change my tune on this issue. I think the drag is there for back up. As far as all the hoopla about baitcaster type reels or salt water fishing. 1) Baitcasters don't work in the same manner. 2)When's the last time you used 4-6# test on your bait caster? 3) Walleyes fight considerably different than alot of those salt water fish. Shallow water fish in salt usually make longer more pronounced runs, and deeper water fish have the advantage of sounding 50-100 ft or more. It's really not an apples to apples comparison in my opinion. Ok, I'll get off the soapbox now...Can't tell I'm more than a little passionette about this subject can you? :):)

[stevefellegy]

And that's the rest of the story......

[eyewitness]

Steve, did I miss anything.:)

[eyewitness]

How much snow did you end up with at your place? I drove from the airport to Grand Rapids last night throught the white out. Unreal. Worst I've driven in in a long time. Went in and out of the ditch three times between Princeton and Onamia. Thank God for 4 wheel drive and the fact that the ditches were low in snow or probably still be sitting there!

[SnellTier]

yup, which is why I buy the rear drag jobs. It is easier to see which way is MORE and which way is LESS. I had my favorite rods with front drags on them and changed over to rear drags. Shimano reels, of course.

Nope, I don't fight $50,000 fish. Maybe I would feel differently if I did ... but I set my drag "in the middle" for the weight of my bait and line and adjust from there per fish.

[stevefellegy]

First, we got about 10 inches, but the wind howled and drifted it fiecely.
Second, are you sure it was the weather that put you in the ditch several times? lol
And lastly, let me share a story (yes, another one), that will make the backreeling point even more enlightening.
It was the PWT event at Mille Lacs in '93. We were Lindy riggin' on the mud for the big one to fill out a perfect limit of slots. Now let's back up a little...When we Lindy rig, holding the line under a finger with the bail open, we release the line to the fish when we feel a bite. My habit is to put the reel into "backreel" at that time. Then worry about setting the hook and fighting the fish. If you wait until after you set the hook to flip the switch, sometimes a big boy can act so quickly, without the drag working perfectly, it is too late. So......My co-angler gets a bite. He releases the line to the fish. He's sittin' up on the casting deck, I'm at the big tiller. First thing I say, "is it in backreel?" "Yes", he answers. So he proceeds to go on point and makes a good vertical hookset. And the big walleye runs instantly. AND HE DOESN'T BACKREEL and the drag doesn't slip. I holler, "backreel! put it in backreel!!". The fish makes another dive and still NO BACKREELING AND NO DRAG SLIPPING.
So...he's frozen in time. All thumbs. I get up out of my chair and head for the front. My hand is within 6 inches of the reel when the fish makes his final, fatal run. I never got a chance to hit the switch. So what, right? Catch another one and learn next time, right?
Well, that fish, most likely, was about 7 or more pounds. We ended up keeping a meager four pounder that day to replace it. SO......three months later.....Parsons and I go down to the last day of the season, fighting for angler of the year. Gary, deservingly, beats me by about two pounds in the years final total. What did that fish, that didn't get BACKREELED cost me? Hmmmmmmm.....You think that doesn't haunt me yet? 8 years later, the guy who DIDN'T backreel on Mille Lacs that fatal day, still brings it up and apologizes every time I see him. He can't forget how important backreeling is either.

[eyewitness]

Absolutely great story Steve! What I find very entertaining is that the partner in question didn't hesitate to say yes when you asked him, but still wasn't prepared. Either he thought he was, or just plain ignored your comment. One thing I've noticed when I have people in the boat with me is this. If it's someone who has never fished very much, or for walleyes in particular, they seem to take all the input in and just do the moves without questioning motive. I can honestly say that those folks have all played out and landed their biggest fish ever without incident by simply following through on how to do it on a play by play basis. Then, I've got good fishin' pals who absolutely won't learn to backreel due to maybe one bad experience they had where they weren't prepared. I have watched so many of those same friends lose big fish because they put it all to chance. It is sometimes just plain hard to watch. Especially when I put em' on those fish! I mean, isn't that the way it goes most times? You diligently control the boat for the spot on the spot or on a big mark and 75% of the time it's the "other" guy who ends up hooking up. I don't even voice my opinion to them any more. When the subject of how many "big" fish they've landed or lost comes up over a cocktail, and it always does, I just smile and say "gosh, glad I don't have that kind of 'luck'". I just let the nunbers speak...

[lost sailor]

steve,
if your fishing partner had the drag set to release , it seems like the chances of him catching that fish would have been much better. anyway i prefer the rear drag shimano reels, i have gradually switched almost all of my spinning reels to rear drag symmetres.
skip

[flyman]

Sorry to hear about the lost fish. Do I have this right:

The guy meant to back reel. He goofed up and didn't. Isn't this a case of back reeling failing, not the drag failing? Afterall, the essence of back reeling is that it puts all the responsibility on the angler himself. In this case, it sounds like the angler goofed. Did he have the drag locked down as you described in an earlier post?

Actually, I can understand your points. If you got money on the line, you want as much control as possible. If you lose a fish, you want it to be because of something you did (something you can control), rather than equipment failure. I can understand that.

I also agree with what somebody else said. With walleye, the worry isn't so much breaking line as tearing the skin tissue. I am not lying when I say that I haven't broken the line on a fish of any species in 2.5 years while relying on the drag. I've broken line by doing stupid things after grabbing the line in my hand while landing a fish. D'oh! I can also see why boatside is where believe backreeling to be most important. Up until you see the fish, you don't know that it is barely hooked. Also, boatside is where many anglers hold the rod at too high an agle, effectively increasing the drag (as somebody else described in an earlier post). Maybe a backreeler has an extra buffer to protect himself against doing that, and has one less thing to worry about.

All of these are a concern when fishing for any kind of fish though. And maybe comparing fish of different species is apples and oranges, but what if (I know, a highly debateable if) the other species are more demanding of drags or back reeling??? I imagine a lot of this depends on how a person uses his drag as well. Anyhow, it has been an interesting, intelligent, and fun reading thread. Maybe I make the same adjustments you make by backreeling a different way (rod angle, drag adjustment, etc). There's more than one way to skin a cat(fish).

[WAeyes]

Well did he have his drag tightened up all the way as you say that you do Steve? If that was the case it is no wonder his drag didn't work properly.

The drag cannot operate properly if you have a poor quality one or if there is error from the operator.

In response to the point that there is a greater chance of mechanical error in the drag than human error when backreeling...well I think your story just proved my point.

Yes, I am very passionate about this topic as well. I think what it comes down to mostly is do what you are comfortable with so you don't have a situation like what happened to the guy in your story...maybe he was not comfortable with the backreeling technique thus giving it the big CHOKE!!! LOL

[stevefellegy]

"Choke" is the key word in your post.lol

This has been a good, healthy, and relevant issue to debate. The example I used shows that operator error or competence plays a major role in this regard. But the bottem line is, in my meager opinion, that the odds of the operator being able to react accordingly, by using the backreeling method of fighting a frisky fish, are better than the drag reacting to the various degrees it needs to, instantaneously. Obviously, when one "chokes", either method is open for failure.
Yes, the drag was most likely too tight in this case. I prefer them that way for the hook setting moment and also to force the backreeling mentality. The co-angler in this case had done a great job in numerous battles with smaller fish earlier that same day. He was very comfortable with backreeling. But he "choked". If, if, if, you don't "choke", you are MORE cable of controling the tension on the line and the fishes flesh, than the best drag on the market. So........I'll climb back into the foxhole on this one now, wearing my Lund hardhat, saying BACKREEL in my dreams. lol