optimax oil question

[weedsnager]

any of you optimax guys using oil other then the mecury optimax oil? $33 a gallon is getting expensive. i have a 115 hp

[Modog]

My Merc guy said not to bother running the Optimax oil but instead reccommended Merc's Premium Plus.
The Premium Plus is what the owners manual call out on my Opti ProXS too.

[PAL]

Check out Gander Mountain, they sell Quicksilver DFI oil in 2.5 containers that I use for my Opti. I would put either opti oil or quicksilver in your motor going by the book.

[GMC Jon]

I saved my old gallon containers and buy my Opti oil from my dealer. They get it in bulk and pass the savings on to the customer. Otherwise like the previous post stated, look for the Quicksilver brand. Same oil only alot less money. My 06 115 calls for Opti oil also.

[Grey Wolf - Unlogged]

I would not run anything but Opti Oil in my Opti. Yes the Pro XS's motors are reccomended to run Premium Plus, but your basic Opti needs Opti Oil. I second saving your containers and buyign in bulk from delaers. The cheapest I eer paid buying in bulk was $19 a gallon

[Hombre Robusto]

My local Gander has the 2.6 gallon jugs of QuickSilver for $52.

[TomP.]

I run Amsoil synthetic works great for me. Mills Fleet Farm $26 a gallon.

[Fish-er-man]

I would not run anything but Opti Oil in my Opti. Yes the Pro XS's motors are recommended to run Premium Plus, but your basic Opti needs Opti Oil. I second saving your containers and buying in bulk from dealers. The cheapest I ever paid buying in bulk was $19 a gallon

Needs Opti oil? Whats that suppose to mean?

[mrbreeze]

Needs Opti oil? Whats that suppose to mean?

Here is what it means:

http://www.duskyonline.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/oil/optimax-big.jpg

[Waxy]

I run Amsoil synthetic works great for me. Mills Fleet Farm $26 a gallon.

X2

The oil is as good or better, and it's WAY cheaper, especially if you're a preffered customer.

Waxy

[ffmed]

Run opti oil I personally have blown two optis shortly after running quicksilver. Nobody had any thing else
at the time. Pro XS use different oil because its a higher performance motor. The engine parts are low tention (meaning) different hardness of the metal such as rings bearings etc. The oil question has nothing to do with injectors or fuel delivery. I run a 225 and make 30 mile trips wide open for example. At that RPM there is serious load on the motor. I know you guys can save money buying cheaper oil. At a savings of even $10 a gallon when you buy a $5000 power head you'll wish you ran the recommended oil. Unfortuantely times are tough but there ar eother ways to save money when fishing. I guess if its under warranty who cares right? Well if mercury wants to get tough which they have in the past, they can spend $10 for a test and find out if its opti oil or not and then void your warranty. Would you rather go to a dirty needle clinic or a good doctor, why treat your heart (motor) any different. If the other oils were ok then the manufacturer would say so, such as quick silver which by the way is owned by merc.

[SteveJ]

If the other oils were ok then the manufacturer would say so, such as quick silver which by the way is owned by merc.

There are some outstanding lubricants availabe that are not recommended by the manufacturers. This applies to marine oils as well as any other application. The manufacturer wants you to use their lubricant because they make money on it, not because it is the best available on the market.

That said, I wouldn't consider using any Merc oil other than the Optimax Oil in an Optimax outboard. There is a reason they don't recommend their Premium Plus oil in the Opti. They don't provide enough informatoin on their web site to know what the difference is.

[Pro veeee]

My Opti owners manual says TCW III plus oil.

[Waxy]

Well if mercury wants to get tough which they have in the past, they can spend $10 for a test and find out if its opti oil or not and then void your warranty.... If the other oils were ok then the manufacturer would say so

This is FALSE.

They cannot void a warranty claim, even if they prove it was oil related, because you are not using Optimax oil. This is spelled out clearly in the Magnusson-Moss Act, it's the law. In order for ANY OEM to demand that the consumer use ONLY their oil, they must supply it to the consumer for FREE.

Mercury is free to recommend their oil all they want, they make money on it, so they're not going to recommend you buy the competition's oil. However, they must also release the specification of the oil, and as long as the oil you're using meets the specs as designated by Mercury, and most aftermarket oils meet or exceed those specs, Mercury CANNOT void your warranty claim.

On top of that, if you're using Amsoil, and the failure is proven to be a direct result of the oil, Amsoil will pay the repair bill. I believe there are a couple other manufacturers that have the same guarantee as well.

As for the savings not being worth it, well, to each his own, as far as I'm concerned, what isn't worth it is paying Mercury's (or most OEM's for that matter) exorbitant prices.

Waxy

[eye4aneye]

The prices are getting ridiculous. I went to buy some lower unit lube and the Merc stuff is about $18 a quart. considering it takes a good two quarts to fill my two motors, I just bought the Cabela's synthetic for $11 a can. I've decided I'll run the Opti oil until my motor is out of warranty just so they can't say anything about it if something were to go wrong with my motor, but $33 a gallon? If it gets any worse, I may rethink that.

[Terroreyes]

There's price reductions on the way! At work, we've seen base oil prices for both synthetic and dino oil go way down since the first of the year. PAO's by 33%, and conventionals by 20%. Most of the finished oils on the market were made with the higher priced bases, but we should see some relief later in the year.

"The manufacturer wants you to use their lubricant because they make money on it, not because it is the best available on the market."

That is 100% false! Yes, you do pay a few extra $$$ for the name, but their reputation is on the line with that oil. TCW specs are just a baseline of minumum requirements an oil must pass. From there, the engine manufacturer works with the lubricant manufacturer to get the most life out of their particular engine line by tweaking things like viscosity and additive packages. Basic manufacturing volumes play into the price also. Walmart or other store brands do buy just any old oil, like Penzoil or such, which they make 10's of 1000's of gallon of, and put their label on it. Volumes of Merc oils are probably much smaller than Penzoils for example.

[SteveJ]

"The manufacturer wants you to use their lubricant because they make money on it, not because it is the best available on the market."

I don't want to get into another of the posting battles you and I have had in the past, so I will avoid getting into a battle of the brands. I didn't even imply that Mercury products were not of high quality. Rather, I suggested that just because it carries their name that doesn't make the the bet product on the market.

I don't look for cheap lubricants for any of my applications. However, I don't purchase any OEM lubricants. That applies to motor vehicles, marine applications and lawn & garden applications. I have had outstanding success/results with the products that I use.

[Terroreyes]

"The manufacturer wants you to use their lubricant because they make money on it, not because it is the best available on the market."

I don't want to get into another of the posting battles you and I have had in the past, so I will avoid getting into a battle of the brands. I didn't even imply that Mercury products were not of high quality. Rather, I suggested that just because it carries their name that doesn't make the the bet product on the market.

I don't look for cheap lubricants for any of my applications. However, I don't purchase any OEM lubricants. That applies to motor vehicles, marine applications and lawn & garden applications. I have had outstanding success/results with the products that I use.

Oh heck no. We don't want to get into one of those again. LOL


All I want to point out, that people just can't seem to grasp with marine applications and many others is that there is no "best on the market". It doesn't exist! Why? Because what brand oil gets you 2000 hours in brand X engine, may only get you 1500 hours in brand Y, and maybe the bare TCW minimun performance in brand Z engine. I'll about guarantee that the 2000 or 1500 hour performance is with the manufacturers brand though. In the same breath, that 2000 hour performance could be a non-manufacturer brand, maybe even yours ;) ! You don't know until it blows though. LOL Too many variations in design between brands and even lines within a brand. They put a boat load of money into r&d for a reason. People don't associate longevity of an engine with the lubricant generally. If something goes wrong, they blame it on the engine itself and the manufacturers know that, so they tweak the oils to max out longevity in their engines. It's all a gamble that even I, with probaly $1 million of testing equipment at my disposal, chose not to take. To each his own on whether to gamble or not, but I just like to keep people apprised of what I do know when it comes to lubricants.

People need to remember too..... TCW specs are only considered 1 life of a motor. As many engineers here know, manufacturers generally spec their internal performance specifications to 2x to 5x life!! HUGE difference!

[Waxy]

"The manufacturer wants you to use their lubricant because they make money on it, not because it is the best available on the market."

That is 100% false! Yes, you do pay a few extra $$$ for the name, but their reputation is on the line with that oil. TCW specs are just a baseline of minumum requirements an oil must pass. From there, the engine manufacturer works with the lubricant manufacturer to get the most life out of their particular engine line by tweaking things like viscosity and additive packages. Basic manufacturing volumes play into the price also. Walmart or other store brands do buy just any old oil, like Penzoil or such, which they make 10's of 1000's of gallon of, and put their label on it. Volumes of Merc oils are probably much smaller than Penzoils for example.

I beg to differ.

You even admit it yourself when you say "you do pay a few extra $$$ for the name" and "there is no "best on the market"".

Every oil's reputation is on the line when you're using it, so I don't see the difference. No manufacturer is going to stay in business long if their oil consistently leads to premature failures.

Not every oil meets only the minimum requirements either, that's completely misleading. There are LOTS of excellent aftermarket oils out there that far exceed any minimum standards, have their own additive packages, and have undergone extensive testing. OEM's don't have any kind of a monopoly on oil technology, and they aren't the only ones that test directly on their equipment.

I don't want to get into an argument either, but I think people should know that they don't have to be afraid of not using the OEM oil or that they're somehow taking a "huge gamble" by not using it. Just make sure you're buying a good quality oil, from a good name, that meets all the specs, and you're good to go. Don't let the fear mongers tell you otherwise...

Waxy

[Terroreyes]

I didn't mean the oils reputation. Like I said in my last post, it's the engines reputation on the line with that oil.

I never said non-OEM oils only meet minimum. Many exceed, but by how much, and in what areas? "Exceeds" leaves allot to the imagination. Besides limited info from Amsoil, nobody really publishes test data. And 99.9% of the general public wouldn't know a 4-ball wear test from Timken Bearing test. I made the TCW statement because people ALWAYS point to the fact that two oils are both TCW, usually the Opti vs Premium Plus debate and I was just pointing out that because two oils are both the same TCW certification, that it doesn't mean they actually perform the same. Like I said, TCW is just a minumum requirement. And by the way, Opti/DFI and Premium Plus are two different viscosities! ;)

And yes you're right, lots of non-OEM lubricant manufacturers test their lubricant in various engines. But, which ones? Was it yours? Pretty hard to find out. That's my point, again. You can only be guaranteed that your engine was tested with a certain lubricant if you get the manufacturers recomended oil. No big doom and gloom risk as you make me out to be protraying, as if you put Walmart TCW oil in there and your engine will blow. Never inferred anything like that. It is a gamble though between that 800 hours, 1500 hours, or 2000+ hours, or whatever.

You don't happen to be one of those Amsoil "distributors", do you? :howdy:

[Waxy]

I didn't mean the oils reputation. Like I said in my last post, it's the engines reputation on the line with that oil.

Really? Not to my thinking. I think that's a stretch. If my engine blows and it's due to oil failure, I don't blame Mercury, why would I? Same way if I run my snowmbile too lean and seize it, I don't blame Arctic Cat for making crappy motors.

Furthermore, if that was in fact the case, that Mercury designed their motors so that they can only achieve a long life using Mercury specific oils, then I would have a solid reason to question their performance and reputation, as their engineering would obviously be substandard.

You don't happen to be one of those Amsoil "distributors", do you? :howdy:

I most certainly am not. I do use their products in some of my equipment though, and I've been very pleased with the results. I also use Klotz, Motorex, Mobil 1, etc...

I'm not surprised at the accusation though, it's generally where people go when they run out of legitimate arguments - attack the person's credibility rather than the issue itself.

Believe it not, people can disagree with you on the subject without having any financial stake in the situation.

Waxy

[Jim Ordway]

My Pro XS specifies premium plus which is less expensive than the oil I used in my last Opti.
I believe that Merc recommends what is best for their motors without regard for the price.
I will pay a buck or two to use what is recommended. Most of us are not engineers and would prefer to be safe and not sorry. This program has worked for me to date.
Maybe B&W could do a study on this subject, it would be enlightening.
Take care,

[Opti-Mist]

Interesting discussion. It is also interesting that experts do not agree on specific points. My companies representatives to the API argued more with each other than with other companies reps.

[Terroreyes]

Really? Not to my thinking. I think that's a stretch. If my engine blows and it's due to oil failure, I don't blame Mercury, why would I? Same way if I run my snowmbile too lean and seize it, I don't blame Arctic Cat for making crappy motors.

Furthermore, if that was in fact the case, that Mercury designed their motors so that they can only achieve a long life using Mercury specific oils, then I would have a solid reason to question their performance and reputation, as their engineering would obviously be substandard.



I most certainly am not. I do use their products in some of my equipment though, and I've been very pleased with the results. I also use Klotz, Motorex, Mobil 1, etc...

I'm not surprised at the accusation though, it's generally where people go when they run out of legitimate arguments - attack the person's credibility rather than the issue itself.

Believe it not, people can disagree with you on the subject without having any financial stake in the situation.

Waxy

Ok, my last reply just to clear a few more thing up here. Even though I LOVE debating oils. I'm sure the moderators hate it though. LOL

First, how many times have you heard of an engine blowing because of lubricant failure? Me? Once! And that was here with REW, I believe, because of precipitated additives that plugged his system. Besides that, never, and part of what I do for a living is test lubricants on warranty claims!!! Now I know where your mind is going already, and STOP! LOL Don't twist that one on me. Lubricants don't catostophically fail unless they were not manufactured properly. The difference you'll see between oils is in wear, which occurs over a long period of time. And that is not considered a lubricant failure. That is termed "normal wear and tear". If push comes to shove and the lubricant manufacturer had to defend their product, it's just a matter of pulling the retained sample and proving it met the TCW specification. That's why you see oil with replacement guarantees. Good luck proving it failed. All they have to do is prove it met the TCW, API, or whatever spec when it was shipped. If it did, case closed. Beyond that, unless something looks really suspicious, an engine manufacturer is not going to spend thousands of $$$ for a lab to analyze the oil and parts. They're going to swap the powerhead and call it a day.

This is funny. Twist, twist, twist.

<Furthermore, if that was in fact the case, that Mercury designed their motors so that they can only achieve a long life using Mercury specific oils, then I would have a solid reason to question their performance and reputation, as their engineering would obviously be substandard. >

Where???? Do you get this stuff from in my posts? Geez! I won't even dignify you with an reply on that one. LOL

Finally, sorry for the Amsoil "accusation" and attack on your credibity! LOL Just a simple qustion in jest because most Amsoil guys argue with me like pitbulls. :help: Pretty hard to attack ones credibility with one question. And I could care less if someone disagrees with me about it. I actually kinda enjoy the debate. :bigsmile:

Take a deep breath now, the debates over. :) LOL

[Terroreyes]

Interesting discussion. It is also interesting that experts do not agree on specific points. My companies representatives to the API argued more with each other than with other companies reps.

Oh, you should see the dissertations and debates that go on in our lab sometimes! Hours on end! Now you know where I get it from. LOL :huh:

[Waxy]

Ok, my last reply just to clear a few more thing up here. Even though I LOVE debating oils. I'm sure the moderators hate it though. LOL

First, how many times have you heard of an engine blowing because of lubricant failure? Me? Once! And that was here with REW, I believe, because of precipitated additives that plugged his system. Besides that, never, and part of what I do for a living is test lubricants on warranty claims!!! Now I know where your mind is going already, and STOP! LOL Don't twist that one on me. Lubricants don't catostophically fail unless they were not manufactured properly. The difference you'll see between oils is in wear, which occurs over a long period of time. And that is not considered a lubricant failure. That is termed "normal wear and tear". If push comes to shove and the lubricant manufacturer had to defend their product, it's just a matter of pulling the retained sample and proving it met the TCW specification. That's why you see oil with replacement guarantees. Good luck proving it failed. All they have to do is prove it met the TCW, API, or whatever spec when it was shipped. If it did, case closed. Beyond that, unless something looks really suspicious, an engine manufacturer is not going to spend thousands of $$$ for a lab to analyze the oil and parts. They're going to swap the powerhead and call it a day.

This is funny. Twist, twist, twist.

<Furthermore, if that was in fact the case, that Mercury designed their motors so that they can only achieve a long life using Mercury specific oils, then I would have a solid reason to question their performance and reputation, as their engineering would obviously be substandard. >

Where???? Do you get this stuff from in my posts? Geez! I won't even dignify you with an reply on that one. LOL

Finally, sorry for the Amsoil "accusation" and attack on your credibity! LOL Just a simple qustion in jest because most Amsoil guys argue with me like pitbulls. :help: Pretty hard to attack ones credibility with one question. And I could care less if someone disagrees with me about it. I actually kinda enjoy the debate. :bigsmile:

Take a deep breath now, the debates over. :) LOL

If you say so LOL. I think you're the only one getting worked up though, I know my heart rate hasn't risen.

I'm really not that interested in debating this any further with you anyway, although we certainly could debate your last post, what you have or haven't said, and your "dignity" in painstaking detail. You obviously make your living at this and you're apparently pretty passionate about it. I don't share your passion...

I've just made a few points and pointed out a few errors/misconceptions in some previous posts. I could really care less what oil people use, I just don't like fear mongering and bullying that's all. I prefer people have all the info and then make the decision themselves, regardless of what that decision may be.

Waxy

[SteveJ]

You don't happen to be one of those Amsoil "distributors", do you? :howdy:

So much for refraining from the name calling we both posted about earlier. I happen to be one of the Amsoil "distributors" that you apparently despise. I don't use any other brand of lubricant. In the nearly 20 years that I have been useing their products, I have learned that they produce outstanding products. I would say they have to, as this is their only business, but there are other companies in other industries that get by making inferior products. Let's be clear on one thing...I am a dealer to support my own habit. In all of these years, I have not made 1 cent an selling to another person. Supporting my own habit would be expensive without the discount that comes with being a dealer. I have 3 cars, 1 van, 1 RV, 1 boat, 2 lawn tractors, 2 lawn mowers, 2 chain saws, 2 leaf blowers and 1 weed trimmer that are all on Amsoil lubricants. I probably missed an item or 2, but you get will get the point. They happen to be the 1st lubricants that I have gotten passionate about, and I am nearing retirement age. I continue to use their products because I have had outstanding results that now span almost 20 years.

Based on your comments over my years on Walleye Central, you seem to have something against Amsoil. I am not interested in converting you, just a little surprised that someone with your background would be so openly against Amsoil. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this matter. Enough said!

[Blackmacs]

On a parallel subject, Bass and Walleye Boat mag did some testing on gear lubes and found some interesting results, at least to me. The article is on their website. It really showed how different manufacturers formulate their lubes for different applications.