View Full Version : Kicker or no kicker
fireboat
04-01-2009, 07:48 PM
18' aluminum deep V with 150hp big motor. Probably troll once or twice a summer but would like to be able to sit on a spot when the electric gets tired. Trying to talk myself into buying but is it worth hanging 100lbs on the transom for probably little use? It would be a tiller or nothing. Thought about another electric on the rear but then there is still 100lbs of batteries in the back plus the motor. I don't think my wife would even notice another motor hanging on the back :)
Albertan
04-01-2009, 09:47 PM
Speaking from experience, I don't think it's worth the money for the amount of use you expect to get out of it. Don't forget to factor in the dog factor. Once you hang another 100lbs right off the transom, that poor 150 is going to struggle to get up on plane with a boatload of people. It's also harder to get the bow down into the waves with all that weight on the transom which can make for some rough trips slapping even 2' waves mid-hull. I just sold a Lund 1800 Fisherman with a 175 Opti and 9.9 ProKicker. If I was going to keep it I think I would consider putting trim tabs on it. Good luck with your decision.
Albertan,
I don't know what setup you are use to running, but hanging a kicker on a boat doesn't affect the performance that badly. I have run 3 Rangers and have never had issues with hole shot or being able to bring the bow down in waves. A 100# kicker doesn't affect performance as much as a couple 200# rednecks in your boat!!! Maybe you need to be running a glass boat??? My dad has a lund with a kicker and it is way underpowered, still doesn't have trouble.
Albertan
04-02-2009, 08:46 AM
I'm not sure how changing to a glass boat would help the situation. I'm also not sure what setup your Dad is running...mine's pretty well described above. I suspect that if your Dad's boat is truly underpowered as you say and he were to take a few more friends out with him than he usually does, he would quickly realize the problem I am describing. Yes the friends may be the main problem but that kicker magnifies it. Ask your Dad how fast he can get off the water in 3' waves with his boat and still be able to move the next day.
At any rate, I just thought I would provide some "real time" info to the original poster from someone who has "been there done that". Take it for what its worth. ;)
Based on my experience, I'm going to agree with BW. That extra 100lbs on the transom just doesn't have that big of an effect unless the boat is REALLY loaded down or underpowered. I can't see it requiring trim tabs or anything that extreme, but you never know I guess. You can always shift the other weight in the boat around a little too. A little extra weight in the boat is generally a good thing in windy conditions in my experience. When combined with proper trim adjustment, it can actually help to soften the ride.
As for kicker or no kicker, I don't think you can go wrong with having the kicker, and I certainly don't think you'll regret it.
Waxy
rockpt
04-02-2009, 01:26 PM
I added a Pro Kicker to my Crestliner 192 last year and am glad I did. I haven't noticed any decrease in performance or handling and it's nice to use the quiet kicker when I want to muskie troll or pull cranks. Also, for me it was a safety issue. Spend about 20 days/year running all over LOTW in all kinds of conditions and I didn't want to get caught in big waves in the middle of nowhere without an auxilliary motor.
went522
04-02-2009, 07:27 PM
You'll never notice the weight on the transom. If your experiencing poor handling as alberta stated...change the motor height or get a different prop...that kicker weight wasn't causing those issues.
I've been in several 18' lunds with kickers...none performed as stated.
Cost effective?? Just troll more. Love my kicker...even if I didn't troll much I still appreciate the big water back up.
TomP.
04-02-2009, 11:55 PM
Adding a kicker motor will only catch you more fish. Until I made the plunge I didn`t think I needed one either . Now will never have a boat with out one.
Albertan,
I guess the problem I was referring to wasn't to do with the kicker, but the aluminum hull. Doesn't matter how much weight is on the transom, your gonna get beat up more in aluminum vs. glass. And yes, I have been there and done that. My dad's boat is a Mr. Pike 18 with a 90 Johnson. surpisingly it performs ok, but he is also 73 years old and doesn't drive fast anywhere, or even go out in windy conditions. I have driven that boat and it just reminds me why I drive a glass boat!!! Not trying to argue, but just stating what I have observed personally. If I remember right, you are getting a bigger glass boat anyway, right??? Hope you enjoy. I can't wait for soft water!!!
jasontrucks76
04-04-2009, 10:54 AM
I had an 1800 Fisherman with a 150 and a 9.9 and realy liked the set up. Like others have said the back up is NICE. I got caught out in big water with a long way to go and the big motor craped out. I started up the kicker and made it back safely. I now have another boat and it did not have a kicker on it....... Now it does! If you know you do not use it much and dont want to spen too much look at the Nissan or Tohatsu.... You can get a tiller for 1,200.00 + or -.
Good luck!
Phil T
04-04-2009, 09:59 PM
Without a kicker, you're relying on your electric troller to get you back to the trailer if your main engine develops any problem. So if you fish large bodies of water, you need that kicker. I know, my kicker brought me to the launch ramp four times when I had the original main engine on my boat.
Albertan
04-05-2009, 12:01 AM
Albertan,
I guess the problem I was referring to wasn't to do with the kicker, but the aluminum hull. Doesn't matter how much weight is on the transom, your gonna get beat up more in aluminum vs. glass. And yes, I have been there and done that. My dad's boat is a Mr. Pike 18 with a 90 Johnson. surpisingly it performs ok, but he is also 73 years old and doesn't drive fast anywhere, or even go out in windy conditions. I have driven that boat and it just reminds me why I drive a glass boat!!! Not trying to argue, but just stating what I have observed personally. If I remember right, you are getting a bigger glass boat anyway, right??? Hope you enjoy. I can't wait for soft water!!!
Its all good. I'm no authority and can only relay my experiences. I don't find the kicker a real problem in my boat either and just swallowed a $4,000CDN bill to put a kicker on my new V2121 Warrior. I think perhaps my problem has/had more to do with the incorrect prop on my Optimax. I have a 21 pitch Laser II which gives good top end but is a dog down low. I've had two adults in the rear jump seats and two at the console and been unable to get up on plane. That's pretty embarassing rolling out of the marina in a $50,000+ dollar boat. Hopefully I won't have that problem with the Suze 300 and Minn Kota trim tabs. ;) I'm gonna talk to Troy at the factory about what prop he recommends. But i think I'll try to get some feedback here as well.
I too am convinced glass boats ride better, but that's a can of worms I don't want to open. I just want to stop watching recorded shows like The Next Bite over and over and get out on the water.
I can't wait either. This has been a long winter. Let us know how your new rig runs? It sounds like a kick a** setup you have going. Maybe some pics too? You are going to have one heck of a boat when your done! Have fun with it!
rockpt
04-05-2009, 01:59 PM
Its all good. I'm no authority and can only relay my experiences. I don't find the kicker a real problem in my boat either and just swallowed a $4,000CDN bill to put a kicker on my new V2121 Warrior. I think perhaps my problem has/had more to do with the incorrect prop on my Optimax. I have a 21 pitch Laser II which gives good top end but is a dog down low. I've had two adults in the rear jump seats and two at the console and been unable to get up on plane. That's pretty embarassing rolling out of the marina in a $50,000+ dollar boat. Hopefully I won't have that problem with the Suze 300 and Minn Kota trim tabs. ;) I'm gonna talk to Troy at the factory about what prop he recommends. But i think I'll try to get some feedback here as well.
I too am convinced glass boats ride better, but that's a can of worms I don't want to open. I just want to stop watching recorded shows like The Next Bite over and over and get out on the water.
The Laser is an old design and doesn't have enough blade area to lift the heavy deep v hulls. Suggest trying a Tempest 21 or 19.
The Laser is an old design and doesn't have enough blade area to lift the heavy deep v hulls. Suggest trying a Tempest 21 or 19.
X2.
You've got quite a bit more weight there than I do, but my 1900 Pro V with 200HP Opti loaded to the gunwhales rockets out of the hole with a Tempest Plus 19 with the vent holes open, and gives me a solid 51-54 mph depending on conditions. It's a great all around prop for most conditions.
That said, I really don't like the prop in certain situations. It blows out and "searches" really badly in rough water conditions, due in large part to the venting I think, but closing the venting doesn't completely solve the problem. It's nearly impossible to maintain a steady speed at a low RPM cruise with a heavy load - critical for rough water running. I'm actually looking for a 19P High Five to run on those typical SK days with howling winds and waves when you need the "grip" to keep the bow up and maintain a constant speed.
Waxy
P.S. I just ended up dropping around $4000CDN myself by time you buy the kicker, the the WaveWackers, the Trollmaster, the extra transducers, etc... Nothing's cheap lol.
Albertan
04-06-2009, 03:59 PM
Yeah the Laser II is a dog for sure. When I deliver the boat this weekend, I'll recommend to the fellow that he try a Tempest Plus if he's not happy with it. I'll have to look up the trollmaster. I've heard of it but never seen one.
And I thought the kicker was expensive until I got the bill for the electronics. No one said this hobby is cheap...but it sure is fun. :)