Anyone else holding off on the Lowrance HDS?

[cast_and_blast]

Looking for a new sonar/GPS combo and I just can't seem to pull the trigger on a Lowrance HDS unit for 2 primary reasons:

1. Promise of some type of "side scan" or "side image" that will work with HDS units. I've heard mid-summer 2009, I've heard January 2010 and I've heard that they won't bring anything of value to the market because Humminbird has that specific side-image technology patented. This is a nice feature to have (in my opinion) and is something I would want on my next electronics upgrade. Tough to plunk down a lot of money on a HDS unit when we have no idea what this technology will be (or when).

2. Lowrance customer service has taken a major downturn.


I have Lowrance on my boat already and would like to be able to keep just 1 network.

Am I alone in this quandry?

Scott

[Jimmy Jig]

I need something new, but the trouble Lowrance has had with the 520 series I am not ready to jump into another Lowrance trial and error unit. I have all Lowrance chips, might just get an old Eagle unit that been round for 10 years! These people may never get their act together.......:huh:

[SingleShot]

I thought about replacing my LCX-112 and LMS-332 units but after I figured out the $ it realy is not worth it. First the units are quite pricey, so the screens look fancy, still you the same membrane and resolution. Just grafics, they incorporated the broad band tech, still analogue to the transducer but better software now that they have more cpu speed(power). So for this much $$ you still need to purchase the GPS puck if your not into the internal stuff or want the faster updates, and from what I heard you would need to purchase another xducer and black box for S.I.?? Sounds like another Broadband hardware gimic like before. I'm sure after a year that will be implemented in one box but for what $$$ then. My brother in-law has the H-Bird and after using it a few times I realy like the S.I. I do love my Lowrance but for the $$$ can you realy go wrong with H-bird? Soon enough everyone will have the same features and it will be purely $$ and reputation. For me I'm waiting until either my units die and/or waiting to see how it plays outs.

Jim

[Albertan]

It's a gamble either way, and you'll find arguments both ways. What if Lowrance's sidescan technology does come out in just a few months and turns out to be better than HB's? Comparing the price of an 1197 (which every single person bemoans the price of) to an HDS-10, the Lowrance keeps a lot of money in your pocket to add sidescan later whatever the hardware required. My humble opinion after lots of research is that the market is Lowrance's to win or lose. HB has gained favor recently with the sidescan technology and perhaps the reports of superior customer service. But they are gonna take a whack in sales if Lowrance's technology is anywhere near as good, and my business experience tells me that with Lowrance's economies of scale it will be. Lowrance has the advantage of knowing where the bar has been set. It's highly unlikely that they are going to fall short in such an important effort. Just my opinion though...which is why I have two HDS-10s and an HDS-8 going on my boat. ;) Good luck with whichever product you choose.

[yarcraft91]

I ordered a Lowrance 334iGPS before the units hit the stores. It took several months before reports of the problems with, first the internal antenna, then the shallow water software problem appeared. Lowrance's eventual solution was to swap out my 334i for a 527, because Lowrance gave up trying to fix the 334i software- note there hasn't been a single software update since Dec. 2007 for the 334i, while there have been 3 for the 527.

I don't want to be a beta tester again for Lowrance. I'll give Lowrance a year or two to let them get the bugs out of the HDS series. After all- look- the HDS units haven't even hit the water in some areas yet and the third software version is expected this month (to fix the Navionics problem). Watch what happens when side-imaging is added.

I'll settle for my 527 and 27c for this season. If the HDS units are wonderful, I'm sure they'll still be in stores next year.

[Albertan]

I'll settle for my 527 and 27c for this season. If the HDS units are wonderful, I'm sure they'll still be in stores next year.

I'd keep those units too. The real question though is what would you buy if you had no electronics and had to get new stuff one way or the other. You'd have to be completely oblivious to the current state of the economy to buy a new HDS-10 with a perfectly-functioning 112 already on your boat. Every time I see a post about someone keeping Lowrance's most current "legacy" products rather than running out to buy all new HDS units, my knee jerk reaction is....DUH!. :)

[CoolfinIE]

I decided to upgrade fall last year.
The Humminbirds won't read a Lakemaster map which put me off, even though they have SI which I value. So that focussed my attention on the Lowrance HDS units.
The addition of side looking to the HDS units was the leveller I waited for. And I'm reasonably satisfied with their announcement that it will come after ICAST, but not too long after I hope.
At the moment I'm ready to buy, just as soon as I hear positive reports about the map upgrade to the HDS software that is due this month.

[yarcraft91]

I'd keep those units too. The real question though is what would you buy if you had no electronics and had to get new stuff one way or the other. You'd have to be completely oblivious to the current state of the economy to buy a new HDS-10 with a perfectly-functioning 112 already on your boat. Every time I see a post about someone keeping Lowrance's most current "legacy" products rather than running out to buy all new HDS units, my knee jerk reaction is....DUH!. :)

I hear you. If my past behavior is any indication, the HDS units will be obsolete by the time I buy new sonar electronics. Of course, with the way Lowrance turns over models, that could be soon...

[Dave in Walker]

I have had lowrance products most of my life, my original green box is sitting on my cabinet as a collectors item. think I purchased it in about 68-70 or so. I've had many many lowrance units since and they all have been great! Last year I had huge problems with software, drove me crazy! and thanks to Linda Colt at Lowrance thjey were resolved, but I am gun shy now for this year. I took my lcx110 and it is now delegated to gps only, I purchased a vexilar edge 3 for sonar, still 30 inches of ice on Leech lake so I can not say one way or the other how it will work.

[paulsbox]

I believe since Lowrance changes models frequently by this time next the HDS models now will be going and they will have a new line of units with HDS and SI combined like the HB units. So I'm holding off on a new upgrade purchase for now.

[LWinches]

First to Dave in Walker. You're in for a treat in the Edge3. It will be what you measure everything else with from now on.

I think Lowrance is at a crossroads and I certainly do not want to underestimate them. Humminbird first started taking market share by marketing a really good product at a lower price. Then they surpassed Lowrance by far on customer service. Last they passed Lowrance up on research and development by producing side imaging. Being beat on product, price, performance and service they had to do something. Will HDS and side looking bring them back? It could if they will react to the price market and match Humminbird on customer service. They have no reason to wait to be competitive in delivering customer service. So what's the holdup? This part of the equation seems to say they may only do the least they can get buy with. That is not being competitive.

On product, I do think they have a design that provides a basis for delivering a superior product. I hear the HDS units run on Linux. Smart move. Providing a digital analysis of the sonar. Another smart move. Now will their side looking be better than Humminbirds side imaging? It could be. If they were only producing another analog unit I would say they could only match Humminbird. But with the digital analysis layer, and a fast enough CPU, they could actually deliver a unit with performance features that don't exist in an analog unit.

Just my 2 cents. I hope no one is counting the times I've been wrong.
L.Winchester

[whofan]

I agree with Lowrance having great designs and hardware. They need to test their products more thoroughly out on the water as opposed to just testing with a meter.
More customer service reps would help too.

Humminbird has over the last 10 years, invested heavly in their product.
They bought up Zercom Marine and Bottomline. Both these companys had great product also.
Humminbird got that technology to use in their products. Today Humminbird has a class leading product.
Humminbirds parent company is Johnson outdoors who also owns Minnkota and Cannon.

I now run a Edge II in my boat and its been a great graph.

In the past I had a Lowrance x75 and X510c. Loved the X75. My patience with the X510c was short lived.

HDS looks like a great product and if it shakes out alright I would definently consider purchasing one.
For now I would wait and see.
If Lowrance can get their software right and restructure their customer service they would be unbeatible. These two things have me turned off for now. Seems like this is an easy fix on Lowrances part. They need to get rid of the bean counters and spend more on QC.
The hardware and design is near perfect.

To me its not normal to take a new graph out of the box and the first thing you have to do is upgrade it to get it to work. Then upgrade it again to fix the first upgrade and if your lucky your good to go fishing. First you have to go through the customer service guantlet to get the upgrades.

If Lowrance spent more time testing they could take a big strain off of there customer service department. If their products wern`t so nice I wouldn`t care.

With the HDS introduction maybe Lowrance has a lot of my complaints fixed, making this post irrelevant.

[DaveP]

I went with an HDS 10 to replace the 5500c and the x102 on the dash. The first HDS 10 they sent me would not read any of the devices on the NMEA 2000 bus. I worked with the Lowrance tech support folks and they determined I had everything set up properly so they sent me a new unit. The new unit worked out of the box so I was good to go from that standpoint. They included a return FedEx label so it did not cost me anything but time and since the water was still hard at that point it was not a big deal.

I have discovered a few other things that won’t keep me from using the unit but I am hopeful they can be fixed:


I was unaware when I purchased the unit that it would not accept the Navionics card. The manual says nothing on how to select which card the unit is reading from so it was frustrating. I spent some time on line at the Lowrance support web site before I found out the software update will be out next week (so they say)
On my old 5500c and 3500c, there was a way to save the user data (waypoints, trails, etc.) AND the overlay data, this does not appear to be the case with the HDS 10. I spent several hours putting down overlay data on multiple screen/page combinations and I would hate to go through that again.
The manual does not show the correct way to insert the SD cards. One of them seems to only go in one way but the other goes in both ways. A simple picture in the manual would have been nice. Overall, the manual is very poor compared to past models.
I have both the fuel flow interface and the Suzuki engine interface on the bus. The engine gauge shows fuel flow but it is way, way off in calibration where the old fuel flow interface was pretty reliable. There is a way to calibrate the fuel flow in the engine interface but it looks like it will be a pain. It would be nice if the software allowed me to choose which device the data comes from. There may be but I have not found it yet.
The fuel flow display is in liters per hour and I cannot figure out how to change it to GPH. On the 5500c it was in GPH.
Water intrusion problems??????? When I called into the support line this week to see if I could talk to someone about these things, there was a brand new option on the menu that said if you are calling about water intrusion on the HDS press this number. You know if they have a special menu option for that, it’s gotta be a big deal. Not sure what I’m going to find out on this one but you’ll know it’s me on a rainy day as I will be the one with a zip lock bag over my HDS……
No indication the WAAS is enabled (other than going to the satellite page) and the manual does not show if there is an option to enable/disable. Also while in the driveway with both the 5500c (mounted on the bow) and the HDS powered up, the 5500c had a WAAS signal but the HDS did not.

Since I had to type this up for an e-mail to send to Lowrance, I thought I would share this on the board. The HDS unit is very nice and I am looking forward to using it. Really, my biggest worry at this point is the water intrusion thing and if I find out any more about it I will post here.

One other thing to remember that if you have an existing NMEA 2000 bus set up, the HDS units do not power the bus like the old units did. You have to buy another interface for the bus that has the 12 volt connections on it.

[Jimmy Jig]

Boy, sounds like just the unit someone would want. I am guessing to top it all off they leak water also!!!!

[yarcraft91]

[QUOTE=DaveP;1095819] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]The manual does not show the correct way to insert the SD cards. One of them seems to only go in one way but the other goes in both ways. A simple picture in the manual would have been nice. Overall, the manual is very poor compared to past models.

The fuel flow display is in liters per hour and I cannot figure out how to change it to GPH. On the 5500c it was in GPH.

I excerpted two comments from your informative post. On the manual, I'm curious to know if you found the manual "very poor" because it doesn't explain things fully or because the use of English is poor and makes it hard to understand what the manual author was trying to say (or both or something else entirely)?

The default fuel flow in liters/hour is a good indication that the software was not written in the USA. That is not surprising and I wonder if the same might be true for the manual.

The clarity of your e-mail should help Lowrance in sorting out their product.

[Albertan]

On the manual, I'm curious to know if you found the manual "very poor" because it doesn't explain things fully or because the use of English is poor and makes it hard to understand what the manual author was trying to say (or both or something else entirely)?

Judge for yourself. ;) (http://www.lowrance.com/en/Products/Marine/HDS-High-Definition-System/HDS-8m-Multifunction-GPS-Chartplotter/Downloads/HDS-8m-Operations-Guide---English/)

I think seeing the default settings in metric is a good thing personally. It indicates the units were designed for worldwide use...a much larger market than the US market alone...and to me anyways confirms that Lowrance is still the big fish in this market (at least relative to the players being discussed).

Anyways, try this to fix your problem:


Hit menu twice to get to the settings menu.
Select Units and hit enter.
Change Volume, Distance, and/or Economy to get the reading units you desire.

[DaveP]

Yar,

My complaints about the manual are from lack of info. It’s actually laid out well with lots of pictures. But it just seems to be missing a lot. It’s the little things like the satellite page on the unit has a reading for HDOP but the manual does not tell you what this is for and since the reading changes, I would think they should tell you what it is. Nothing on how to see if WAAS is active, and other items. I tried to find the manual on line a few weeks ago to see if it was different and it was not listed. I checked again today and it there. I will see if they have made any changes. BTW HDOP= horizontal dilution of precision. Basically the tighter the satellites are grouped together overhead, the less accurate the fix is. The HDOP reading goes from 1 – 10 with 1 being the most accurate.

[DaveP]

Albertan,

I did try that and it does not affect the fuel flow reading. Being from Canada I can see where you are for the liters per hour reading but us stupid Americans that never converted to metric, need GPH. They let you select the language on the stupid thing so why not that? Thanks for the input though.

[Albertan]

Liters per hour means nothing to me either. I'm a gallons per hour man too. I should have mine rigged in a few weeks and will look into it closely, as I will have the same interfaces from the OB. It would be nice if the emulator was out for these units, although it would probably lock up trying to change this setting anyways.

[WalleyePhan]

I have posted this before in a different thread but I thought I would post it again. I have read reviews on a couple of retailers websites on these units and have came across a couple of people who have had there units fill up with water. It amazes me that this is something you would have to worry about. How long has Lowrance been making these things? Being waterproof should have been the most important thing to worry about and as far as I know this has never been a problem with them. The more I think about it, I think that these HDS units were a gimmick to generate a little excitement and revenue and is looking like it is going to hurt them more then help them in the short term and with the current economic situation could really hurt them in the long term. I know alot of people love and swear by these units but I have heard more bad then good about them over the last few years. It just seems like they are grasping at straws and pushing stuff out well before it is ready.

[Albertan]

Time will tell over the next couple of months as we all finally get on the water. ;)

[DaveP]

Ahhhhh yes, time on the water. I did get out today but first I will let you know that the new manual that is online has more info than the one that came with the HDS. It showed me how to choose between the old fuel flow interface and the Suzuki engine interface so I should be good to go on knowing how much gas I have. It also helped me figure out how to turn on WAAS. Not sure why they would have that disabled as a default but it was.

My first impression of the HDS sonar is that I could not tell much difference from the old x102. I did not spend much time playing with it so I’ll have to wait until I get out next week on the Rainy to get a better impression. Overall the unit functions well but this whole water intrusion thing has me nervous. As Albertan says….. Time will tell.

BTW, I should mention that I purchased this unit from Pro Fishing Supply online and I would highly recommend them. They are running on the old time tested support model; answer your e-mails and phone calls, and things are bound to go good for all parties.

I’ll let you know what I hear back from Lowrance on my e-mail campaign.

[LWinches]

I have a nephew that fishes professional bass tournaments some. He say Lowrance support could not be better. When he goes to a tournament a Lowrance rep is there and any problem he has is fixed immediately, sofware upgrades done, replacement parts/unit etc., usually for free.

Lowrance certainly knows how to provide a high level of support for some folks. On the other side, I doubt if any of them even read this board.

[AllenW]

"""""""""
I have a nephew that fishes professional bass tournaments some. He say Lowrance support could not be better. When he goes to a tournament a Lowrance rep is there and any problem he has is fixed immediately, sofware upgrades done, replacement parts/unit etc., usually for free.
""""""

No offense, but I'd expext that at a tourny, I'd be more concerned with what expriences the average joe has with them.
They've always been pretty good when I've dealt with them, but I've never had a cronic problem to deal with.

I need, well want, a GPS on the bow instead of just the 510c depth finder I have, trying to decide whether to buy a dedicated GPS or a new combo HDS unit, cost is a issue, but more so I get a bit gun shy buying new product lines and may just wait and see.
I'd like also to see how the internal antenna's work a bit more.

I'll probably wait a bit either way, unless I see a deal on a 5300C or LCX27, but they seem to be getting hard to find.

Al

[Wall@y@]

Looking for a new sonar/GPS combo and I just can't seem to pull the trigger on a Lowrance HDS unit for 2 primary reasons:

1. Promise of some type of "side scan" or "side image" that will work with HDS units. I've heard mid-summer 2009, I've heard January 2010 and I've heard that they won't bring anything of value to the market because Humminbird has that specific side-image technology patented. This is a nice feature to have (in my opinion) and is something I would want on my next electronics upgrade. Tough to plunk down a lot of money on a HDS unit when we have no idea what this technology will be (or when).

2. Lowrance customer service has taken a major downturn.


I have Lowrance on my boat already and would like to be able to keep just 1 network.

Am I alone in this quandry?

Scott

I e-mailed Linda Colt about the side scan update and this is what she said..."As far as the side viewing technology, it will be available late fall. From what I understand it will be a small black box, under console type and a software update of course and another transducer."

[DaveP]

A quick update on the water intrusion problem….. I was at Thorne’s today and they told me they had to send 20 or so HDS units back for this problem. So it was like a recall. They were told it was an issue with the early units and it has been fixed. Now I have to find out if I have one of the “early” units…… I will call the support line on Monday and see what that special option for water intrusion problems has to say.

[VaGuy]

Don't know how alone you are but there is no "quandry" for me.

I have never needed "side scan" but will take a look at it when it
comes out later this year. Never any problems with the customer
service, and would not let others opinions of the service, or the
products (good or bad) have any effect on how I would spend my money.

Now I will admitt I have been waiting to make a purchase. I requested a rebate letter on Apr 3 and did not receive it until Apr 11, poor customer service I guess.

I do have a "quandry" of sorts. What to do with all the Lowrance
equipment I have now that works perfectly, and which new unit to purchase (with a rebate up to $400).
I was thinking about the HDS 8.

[DaveP]

I do have a "quandry" of sorts. What to do with all the Lowrance
equipment I have now that works perfectly, and which new unit to purchase (with a rebate up to $400).
I was thinking about the HDS 8.

I see a $100 rebate available (when you purchase something else) where did you see something about a $400 rebate?

[VaGuy]

If you put in a service call for a model that Lowrance no longer
provides service, they will offer you a "rebate letter".
They don't want the old unit, which in my case is an LCX15
that still works good as new. I did this last year and got
$400 off a Globalmap 9200. Now I have a rebate letter for
an HDS unit. Not a bad deal!

go to Lowrance support and type in "rebate letter"
All they want is the serial number

[Albertan]

Well, if Lowrance is stepping up and recalling the units I think that's a good sign. It sounds like they realize there is/was a problem and have dealt with it. VaGuy's comments pretty much hit the nail on the head. I can't really comment on Lowrance's customer service either as I have never needed it. And I have long ago given up taking views expressed on the internet as gospel.

One interesting observation I will point out having seen the HDS units for the first time this weekend on demo boards along side the LCX units. Despite having the same screen size and resolution as their LCX counterparts, the HDS units have way, way better pictures than the LCX stuff. I'm not sure why but I drove the retailers crazy going through all the screens on both units forgetting to turn the audible beeps off to confirm that it was not only certain screens.

I can't wait to get mine and the boat they're mounted on. :)

[JAK]

If you put in a service call for a model that Lowrance no longer
provides service, they will offer you a "rebate letter".
They don't want the old unit, which in my case is an LCX15
that still works good as new. I did this last year and got
$400 off a Globalmap 9200. Now I have a rebate letter for
an HDS unit. Not a bad deal!


Does anyone else have a problem with this statement? At the very least this is unethical. It might even be considered fraud?

I sure hope others feel the same way. It is attitudes like this that have helped to cause/drive the problems that our country faces today. I have faith that most people will recognize this kind of behavior for what it is.

I don’t currently need to replace my electronics, but if I did, I would be facing the same quandary that the original poster is.

I have both Lowrance and more recently Humminbird. I bought the Humminbird because of the side scan and because Lowrance was no longer servicing/updating a 3 year old unit.

I understand that electronics become quickly outdated and I have no problem with them moving forward building newer/better units. What I DO have a problem with is the fact that I had nearly $3500 invested in their product that was just over two years old and they no longer were going to service it or provide updates. Until that point, I had previously used Lowrances for 10-12 years. I had excellent luck with a 350A and several X15’s.

Yes, I understand and am in agreement with the original poster based on my experiences and trepidation with Lowrance new product release over the last few years.

[crappieman]

Not having spoken with Linda for awhile, I'm not sure if the facts being disseminated here are correct. I would e-mail her with your concerns. I could be wrong but I think they will still service a lot of these units, especially a three year old one. I think what some are referring to is that they have to pay to get serviced. Perhaps VA Guy knows more about this.

[cast_and_blast]

Does anyone else have a problem with this statement? At the very least this is unethical. It might even be considered fraud?

I sure hope others feel the same way. It is attitudes like this that have helped to cause/drive the problems that our country faces today. I have faith that most people will recognize this kind of behavior for what it is.

If there is nothing wrong with your electronics and you are calling simply to get the "rebate letter" I 100% agree that this is unethical at a minimum.

I went to Lowrance's site and looked up the "rebate letter", here are the details if you have a faulty unit that there is no replacement for:


****************************
The rebate letter can be used to purchase one of the units indicated below through an authorized Lowrance dealer.

$50 Towards purchase of AirMap 600, AirMap 1000, AirMap 2000C, X67, X67C Ice Machine, M68C, M68C IceMachine, X135, X136 DF

$75 Towards purchase of HDS 5X, HDS 5, HDS 5M

$150 Towards purchase of HDS 7, HDS 7M

$250 Towards purchase of HDS 8, HDS 8M

$400 Toward purchase of HDS 10, HDS 10M
****************************

Good luck.

Scott

[cast_and_blast]

I e-mailed Linda Colt about the side scan update and this is what she said..."As far as the side viewing technology, it will be available late fall. From what I understand it will be a small black box, under console type and a software update of course and another transducer."


Ok...that's a start. What is this "side viewing technology" going to look like and how is it going to perform? This would be a great point to compare/contrast to the Humminbird technology.

If they (Lowrance) are 6 months from deployment of the side-view technology, they surely have patents received and/or pending for their technology. No worries that someone will undercut them. I would think it would be a HUGE boost to folks sitting on the fence to know what Lowrance will be providing before plopping down a couple thousand on a new HDS unit. Not to mention that I'm sure it will be at least a couple hundred bucks to purchase the "small black box, software update and another transducer".

I'm more concerned that the Lowrance side-view is either a) not competitive with Humminbird, b) vaporware or c) going to wind up in court as a patent infringement on Humminbird technology.

Just to be clear - I have always owned Lowrance and never had a problem with their service to date, but I've never really had a need for it either. I've seen and I like the HDS units, but I would like side imaging as well. I cannot bring myself to buy a HDS unit without knowing what they will provide for a side-view solution down the road.

Scott

[VaGuy]

Does anyone else have a problem with this statement? At the very least this is unethical. It might even be considered fraud?



Unethical? Fraud? Strong words to use for someone so uninformed as you.

Lowrance made this offer to me. Last year for a LCX16ci they no longer service, and this year for an LCX15. They have no interest in the old units. That just want the serial number so it can be removed from their books. I didn't ask them for service, just asked questions about the units. Also they were not concerned that I had used a rebate letter before. This is a good program they have for people like me that have spent considerable sums of money with Lowrance. They also told me I could
use the current $50/$100 dollar rebate.
Also, even though the LCX16 & LCX15 still have value, I would not sell them but gave them away. I would consider it "unethical" to sell anything like this when I know it cannot be repaired when it breaks.

Nothing unethical about it. Just a good deal.

Good luck in the future all you Walleye fisherman, that's it from me.

[DaveP]

If you put in a service call for a model that Lowrance no longer
provides service, they will offer you a "rebate letter".
They don't want the old unit, which in my case is an LCX15
that still works good as new. I did this last year and got
$400 off a Globalmap 9200. Now I have a rebate letter for
an HDS unit. Not a bad deal!

go to Lowrance support and type in "rebate letter"
All they want is the serial number

Unfortunately all my unused Lowrance products are still servicable. Better luck next time. Thanks for the info.

[DaveP]

Does anyone else have a problem with this statement? At the very least this is unethical. It might even be considered fraud?

I sure hope others feel the same way. It is attitudes like this that have helped to cause/drive the problems that our country faces today. I have faith that most people will recognize this kind of behavior for what it is.



I would disagree with you on this. Look at it as a customer loyalty program. The car companies have been doing it for years.

[crappieman]

JAK, Could you please post the products that you had over 3500.00 dollars invested in and were only two years old, that Lowrance wasn't going to support. I would like to send that info to Linda. Thanks.

[JAK]

JAK, Could you please post the products that you had over 3500.00 dollars invested in and were only two years old, that Lowrance wasn't going to support. I would like to send that info to Linda. Thanks.

Crappieman,

If you review my post, it states that I have/had nearly $3500 invested, not OVER $3500. The price I quoted was from memory, but after sales tax and shipping, that number was close. The two units were a LCX 104c and a LCX 19c. If I recall correctly the purchase was made in the spring of 2004. Anyway, these were current models, not left overs or clearence items. There was no indication at that time that they going to be discontinued.

If you check the Lowrance web site, you will see that the last software update for these units was 08/31/04. They subsequentally had one update after that, but it had flaws in it and they never re-released it. I know because I downloaded it and then had to revert back to my previous software.

Like I stated before, I know that electronics become obsolete quickly, but it would sure be nice when having that much invested that the unit/software could be updated and/or repaired for more than two years after it was a current product.

If you have an "in" with Linda and I have in any way misrepresented what has happened, please feel free to correct me. I am only stating the facts based on my experiences. I would also be very interested in what Lowrance has to say about the rebate program. I always thought that a unit needed to be not working in order to qualify for a rebate.


Va Guy, if my understanding of the rebate program is wrong, then I aploigize . However, if the program is for non working units, then I stand by my comments.

DaveP, You might be right, maybe this rebate program is considered a "customer loyalty" program. However, I have not seen it stated anywhere that is the case. Maybe if Crappieman get get clarification from Linda at Lowrance it will help to clear up the confussion surrounding the rebates.

[VaGuy]

:howdy:Though I would make one more post before I sign off "Walleye Central".

I was on the phone with Lowrance this afternoon. My question to them
was would the LBS-1, with the expansion port, plus one of the HDS "M"
series chart plotters work with the side imaging sonar when it comes out.
The answer was yes but I wanted to be sure before I made a purchase,
which I have decided will be a HDS 8M from BOE Marine.

Just for general interest I ask him if I had a working unit that was on
their rebate letter list could I get a rebate, even if I had done this in the past. He said yes, just provide the serial number so they can remove it from their records, and I could keep the old (working) unit. Hope some of you can take advantage of this program, but this is the last you will here from me on this subject.


Also (I new the answer to this one aslo), but Side Imaging will not
work with any of the pre-HDS models.

Wait time on the phone was about 10 minutes. The Tech rep new his business and was helpful.

Thanks

[Thembonez]

Ok maybe I missed something here, but this is the first I've heard of any rebate for just being a lowrance owner. If someone could fill in the blank for me here and kindly explain what this is all about I's appreciate. (I did manage to see this on the lowrance website but I cant figure out if they want you to send in your old unit or what the deal is?)

[M Burley]

Will the letter get you a rebate or dollars off of purchase? I already ordered unit just wondered?

[DaveP]

Will the letter get you a rebate or dollars off of purchase? I already ordered unit just wondered?

The rebate letter that has been discussed only works if you have a Lowrance unit that they will no longer service. There is a list on their web site of the units that fall into this category. Just type in “rebate letter” in the search box and click on the first answer that shows up. All they want is the serial number and not the unit itself. The size of the rebate is determined buy which new unit you buy.

Some on this board have expressed their opinion that this is unethical if you have a good working unit and you send in for a rebate. I totally disagree. I have worked for a manufacturer of communications equipment and we gave discounts to users of old, outdated equipment all the time to keep them as happy customers. And as I mentioned before, the auto manufacturers have been giving customer loyalty discounts for years.

[SteveW]

I got two letters when I asked for the rebate for my lcx 15mt. One letter offered units like the GlobalMap, LMS, and LCX units for $75, $250, or $400 off of your purchase. This was for money off the purchase and the dealer was to send in this letter. The other letter was for the HDS units and it was for a rebate that you had to send in and wait 6-8 weeks for your money.

[blueicecpa]

The LBS-1 Is the Broadband sounder for pre HDS units.

The HDS units have the broadband sounder in it.

[cast_and_blast]

Why no additional information about the "side imaging" from Lowrance? I'm looking at their rebate form for the HDS units (possible $100 rebate if you buy additional items) and they list their:

StructureScan™ Side-Viewing Sounder (available later 2009)

So, let's get this straight...

1. They've promised some sort of "side imaging" to work with their HDS units.
2. They haven't given anyone a firm date of availability, but we're within 6 months if it's Fall 2009.
3. They've already named it and trademarked it.
4. Nobody knows the cost to add on to a HDS unit.
5. Nobody knows what it does, what it looks like or how it compares to Humminbird.

If I'm in Lowrance marketing and there is a major piece of technology being released that could drive sales upward for Lowrance (and take them away from our biggest competitor), I'd be getting the word out!

I just don't get it...

Scott

[hondo]

Why no additional information about the "side imaging" from Lowrance? I'm looking at their rebate form for the HDS units (possible $100 rebate if you buy additional items) and they list their:

StructureScan™ Side-Viewing Sounder (available later 2009)

So, let's get this straight...

1. They've promised some sort of "side imaging" to work with their HDS units.
2. They haven't given anyone a firm date of availability, but we're within 6 months if it's Fall 2009.
3. They've already named it and trademarked it.
4. Nobody knows the cost to add on to a HDS unit.
5. Nobody knows what it does, what it looks like or how it compares to Humminbird.

If I'm in Lowrance marketing and there is a major piece of technology being released that could drive sales upward for Lowrance (and take them away from our biggest competitor), I'd be getting the word out!

I just don't get it...

Scott


I agree, very confusing. The only official thing I've seen or heard is that they'll announce more at the ICAST show in July. Seems to be an odd way to introduce a product like this??????

[Backwater Eddy]

The ICAST deal is not odd, but letting the cats out of the bad that far ahead of ICAST just stirred up this bee's nest is all.

[cast_and_blast]

The ICAST deal is not odd, but letting the cats out of the bad that far ahead of ICAST just stirred up this bee's nest is all.

Eddy - I'm not sure I follow. Why wouldn't Lowrance want to "let the cat out of the bag"? If folks are like me, we typically do not buy new electronics for the boat very often. To that point, if (for example) I buy Humminbird I'd be hard pressed to get rid of it and switch to Lowrance.

So - specific to side imaging - why wouldn't Lowrance be marketing this now to retain market share? If it's great, tell people, show people, advertise, get early versions of it on fishing shows, etc.

Your thoughts?

Scott

[CoolfinIE]

... Seems to be an odd way to introduce a product like this??????

I think that the title of this thread answers that point quite well.

If anyone is holding off buying a HDS until they can see the side view working first, they have also held off buying an SI Humminbird, until after they can compare the two systems and choose between them.

It will cause many prospective Humminbird SI buyers to delay their entry into the market until after Lowrance have their side view product available, thereby saving some otherwise "lost sales".

Norm

[acar555]

There is a short video of the Lowrance side viewing. It was shown at the Bassmasters classic in Feb. http://www.lowrance.com/en/HDS-Revolution/HDS-Side-Viewing-Sonar-Video/ (http://www.lowrance.com/en/HDS-Revolution/HDS-Side-Viewing-Sonar-Video/)
I have heard rumors of pricing for the side viewing add on around $600, but only rumors take it at that. I am a Humminbird SI user and from the short video the Humminbird has WAY better detail. No even close. Time will tell.

[blueroof]

Lowrance probably isn't concerned about market share - we need them to run our lakemaster chips! :) I'm wondering if the Lowrance sidescan ducer will be a diving platform like the Humminbird?

[cast_and_blast]

I think that the title of this thread answers that point quite well.

If anyone is holding off buying a HDS until they can see the side view working first, they have also held off buying an SI Humminbird, until after they can compare the two systems and choose between them.

It will cause many prospective Humminbird SI buyers to delay their entry into the market until after Lowrance have their side view product available, thereby saving some otherwise "lost sales".

Norm

Good point, unless they have no electronics (i.e. new boat) and are forced to make a choice. I'm not in that position, but if I were I'd be going with Humminbird because of the SI.

Scott

[cast_and_blast]

Lowrance probably isn't concerned about market share - we need them to run our lakemaster chips! :)

Salesperson at Gander Mountain (Woodbury, MN) that I was talking to told me that all was not well between Lakemaster and Lowrance and that Lakemaster may be working on Humminbird sooner than you think. He seemed to know his stuff about electronics, but I cannot verify the accuracy of his statements.

Scott

[mamohr686]

The lowrance pictues of SI that have been leaked look pretty good to me.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e314/mleecoyote/Channel_2_v2.jpg?t=1235072764 (http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e314/mleecoyote/Channel_2_v2.jpg?t=1235072764)

[HT32BSX115]

On product, I do think they have a design that provides a basis for delivering a superior product. I hear the HDS units run on Linux.Howdy all, Looks like this thread slowed down a little....


I just got my HDS5 Lake Insight today and so far, I'm happy with it (although all I have done is power it up on the bench!)

The first thing I did was install the update that was evidently released today!

I also had a bit of look "under the hood" at the update files.

Whomever said they heard it runs Linux is absolutely right! (there's a LOT of GPS and other small devices out there that use "imbedded" Linux)

Just about the whole list of files is the same as what is on the computer I'm using to type this message! (I'm using OpenSuSE 11.1 Linux)


The HDS series appear to be running a Linux kernel using "Busybox" http://www.busybox.net/about.html and of course a GUI.

All the software that is the HDS units is licensed under the General Public License http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-2.0.html which also means that Lowrance must provide the source code with their units if asked.

It also means that since everyone can look at the code, all the "hackers" out there in radio land can also improve it. Any "bug" will be found and fixed quickly since there's a lot of eyeballs looking at it!

I think I am going to be pretty happy with it.

I wish I could connect a keyboard!



Cheers,



Rick

[yarcraft91]

That thing you said about the software licensing- interesting! Are you planning to ask Lowrance to provide the source code? It might be worth a look.

[wormy1]

I decided to upgrade fall last year.
The Humminbirds won't read a Lakemaster map which put me off, even though they have SI which I value. So that focussed my attention on the Lowrance HDS units.
The addition of side looking to the HDS units was the leveller I waited for. And I'm reasonably satisfied with their announcement that it will come after ICAST, but not too long after I hope.
At the moment I'm ready to buy, just as soon as I hear positive reports about the map upgrade to the HDS software that is due this month.

Just following this thread as I am interested in an HSD5. Wahts thdifference in the Lakmaster and the Navtronics charts everyone is discusing here? I keep reading abou tobth but never boght a navtronics...only th eLakemasters
Bill

[HT32BSX115]

That thing you said about the software licensing- interesting! Are you planning to ask Lowrance to provide the source code? It might be worth a look. Yeah. I need to talk to their tech support about another issue and I was thinking I'd ask them where I can find the source files. To comply with the requirements of the GPL they have to provide the source code if they're using open source software.

[yarcraft91]

Just following this thread as I am interested in an HSD5. Wahts thdifference in the Lakmaster and the Navtronics charts everyone is discusing here? I keep reading abou tobth but never boght a navtronics...only th eLakemasters
Bill

Both Lakemaster and Navionics provide electronic lake maps on chips. Some differences include
- Navionics bundles maps by multi-state geographic region, Lakemaster maps I've seen are one-state-only.
- Contour line colors are different and you may find one brand's map contour lines are easier to see than the other on your display unit. Something to check in the store.
- Check maps for the specific lakes you fish. Lakemaster and Navionics get many of their maps from the same place, but I've seen several cases where one or the other has a much better map for a particular lake, which only matters if it's a lake you fish. This is important- some of the electronic maps are nearly pure fiction because they are based on badly flawed paper maps (classic example, Wixom Lake in Gladwin County, Michigan- same map with both vendors, demonstrably very wrong- the 2006 version had a large part of the lake in what is actually a corn field at least a mile from water- since repaired when I provided them with good coordinates for that part of the lake).
- When I was shopping last year, it seemed Lakemaster Michigan had much better details on Great Lakes contours than the Navionics did.
- The Lakemaster Michigan chip in my LCX-27c will not work if there is a second chip in the chip tray. Not an issue with Navionics, so only the Navionics allows me to use an electronic lake map while recording a sonar log.
- When I contacted Navionics with a complaint about Wixom Lake, they were very responsive and I got an updated chip for free. When I contacted Lakemaster about the problem above, they ignored me- twice.