619 DVS & F225 Prop Question

[Ruddiger]

Howdy,

I recently purchased a 2009 Ranger 619 DVS with a Yamaha F225 four stroke. Originally I had planned to put a Suzuki on the boat but, without going into a lot of detail, decided to change the order to the Yamaha. The boat will be rigged with 4 batteries, a terrova, and a Yamaha 9.9 kicker. Usually I would have 1-2 people in the boat but I do live on Erie and can easily have three people, full live wells (hopefully with fish) and large waves, swells and wakes to contend with.

Here is the question: What is the best prop to run on this boat for the best overall performance?

My goal is not top end, however, I do want to get out of the hole reasonably well while also getting as close to 5950 RPMs without ever redlining the motor. Since the boat has not arrived yet I am concerned with Ranger putting a speed prop on at the factory that will not suit my needs. If I know in advance what prop is best suited for this setup I could have it put on the boat prior to delivery.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Take care,

Ruddiger

[PJM]

Ruddiger

The boat probably came with a 21 Pro Series Yamaha prop which is not a bad prop But I would first get it on the water with your normal load and see how it performs. A lot of guys are running Mercury Tempest three blade and Rev-4 which is a four blade. Maybe propman can give us an opinion on this or Grampa Joe.........

[propmann]

A 4 blade Rev 4 or an powertech 4 blade will be the best all around best peformance, will handle the rough water better. I would go with a 19 pitch in the rev 4 or powertech OFS4 19 both will be good props for your set up. The nice thing about powertech if the 19 revs alittle high you can get a 20 pitch, they come in every pitch.

[Ruddiger]

Howdy,

I spoke to Ranger yesterday and they are putting a 21 pitch pro series prop on the boat. I assume that it is a three blade prop but am not totally sure. Allegedly the top speed with that prop, two guys, full live-wells and gas is 55 MPH.

As far as other props go, If the set up is the same as above what is the best option in a 4-blade? I assume that would give better hole shot but less top end? Ultimately getting on plane and staying on plane at the slowest speed possible without redlining is the goal.

Thanks for the advice,

Ruddiger

[cast_and_blast]

I believe the Yamaha Pro Series is a 3 blade. Unless something has drastically chaged I would be suprised if you're going to get 55 out of that rig. Current performance reports from Yamaha with a 14.5 x 23 pitch Yamaha Pro Series at 5500 RPM is 51.2 MPH. 6.12 seconds to plane.

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/assets/products/otb/bulletins/bulletin_4stroke_hpv6_pro_rng-619vs-f225txr.pdf

I'll let others advise on 4 blade props or other options. Maybe a stabilizer fin on the motor?

Scott

[Ruddiger]

Howdy,

I am 10 hours into running the boat with the 21 pitch Yamaha and hear are the findings:

With 1 person, less than a 1/4 tank of gas, no deck extension in the boat (I do have one however) the 9.9 kicker, an empty live-well, two seats, no bike seats and no tackle I was able to hit 6000 RPM, possibly 6100 RPM depending upon how accurate the gauge is. Top speed was 54.5 MPH for the brief time I remained at wide open throttle.

This test was done on a relatively calm inland lake. Usually I am fishing on Erie, with a couple of tackle bags, the possibility of water and fish in the rear live-well and another person. Under these conditions I have never been able to open it up due to waves, swells etc.

The last time I was on big water with another person and was actually fishing I could run on plane in 1-2 footers at around 3500 RPM without beating up myself or, more importantly, the boat. However, I really had to keep the motor trimmed in the whole time to avoid porpoising. The motor is mounted on the third (of four holes) from the top.

Ideally I am looking for a 4-blade prop that will give me optimal hole shot, stay on plane at low RPMs, and maintain its bite at all levels. I believe I have narrowed it down to a Mercury Revolution 4 or a Powertech OFS4. If I did the Rev 4 it would be in a 19 pitch and if I did the Powertech it would be in a 19 or 20 pitch.

Does anyone have any direct experience with either of these props on a similarly set up 619? I don't mind loosing 3-5 MPH on top so long as I am not exceeding the 6000 RPM max. Fuel efficiency is a plus at cruising speed but not a primary concern. Should I be running a 19 pitch 4 blade or a 20 pitch? If the best pitch is a 19, should I get the Mercury Rev 4 or the Powertech OFS4? If the best prop is a 20 pitch, what are your experiences (pros and cons) with the OFS4?

Thanks,

Ruddiger

[CLDFRNT]

I'm currently running a 19 pitch Rev4 on my 620/F250. I'm much happier with this prop than I was with the Yamaha 3 blade. I lost a little speed but it was worth it. Hole shot is much better, getting a constant 52mph with it. Good luck Mark N

[Ruddiger]

Howdy,

In talking to my dealer, he believes that the best prop for this boat is a High 5. I had one of these for a brief time on my 620T and was unimpressed with its performance on a 115 Suzuki. Does anyone have any experience or insights on this option being thrown into the mix with the Powertech four blade and Mercury Rev 4?

Thanks,

Ruddiger

[K Gonefishin]

Hi 5 is overkill for any Fisherman series boat, my dealer thought the same thing, they prop to many bass boats, Rev 4 I swear is a great prop for any fisherman series boat. best of all worlds. if your going for top end stick with a 3 blade but you will suffer in the rough stuff.

[Ruddiger]

Howdy,

On the Revolution 4, if I am running a 21 pitch Yamaha three blade stainless and am hitting 6000 RPM alone, should I go with a 19 pitch Rev 4? I was told to go down in pitch on a 4 blade prop to begin with but am unsure if I should go down two points to a 19 pitch. Any thoughts?

As it is now, the three blade Yamaha prop is fine as a backup but is inadequate to keep me on plane at low speeds on Erie.

Thanks,

Ruddiger

[JAK]

I have run both the OFS from P/T and a 19 and 21 pitch Rev 4. In fact I have tested about 14 props on my last two boats. I did test the OFS and a REV 4 on the same hull.

I am doing this from memory so please bear with me. I will try to find my notes if needed.

Both the OFS and the REV 4 will be a very good choice based on what you stated your intended performance and needs are. If running the 21 Pro series at 6000 rpm+/- in the current water and air temps, you will drop 100-200 rpm in the summer. That puts the 19 REV 4 just about perfect during the summer or with a heavy load.

You might, again I say might lose 1-2 mph under ideal conditions with a light load. However, you will be just as fast or faster in rough conditions or with a moderate to heavy load.

The OFS performed nearly identical on my rig as the REV 4. The OFS is one of the easiest props that I have ever driven. It was extremely forgiving when not trimmed correctly. It had a little better holeshot than the REV and ran within ½ -1 mph of the REV 4.

Both of these props are fast prop for 4-blades.

I would stay away from a high 5 on your application. The high 5 would have an excellent holeshot and good lift, but it gives a lot away in overall performance on a hull where it is not needed.

The Pro series is a 3 blade that is very simular to a Tempest. Both have a large blade with a fair amount of rake and significant trail cup. Both are vented.

[T Mac]

I agree with JAK, pretty much.
I will say a same pitch Tempest will get you a little more speed than the same pitch Pro Series.

I normally don't like 4 blade props...unless there is an issue with staying hooked up (like in big waves all the time)...so I normally recommend a three blade. But...you know your conditions, and I don't.
Sounds like a 19 Tempest would run your boat pretty sweet...to me.

Hope that helps.

[Ruddiger]

Howdy,

Can someone recommend an online dealer with good prices and an exchange program that will allow me to purchase a 19 pitch Rev 4 and, if needed, exchange it for a 21 pitch prop if it does not work out? I know Mercury has a program to do this but my dealer is not a participant.

Thanks,

Ruddiger

[Ruddiger]

Howdy,

I have held off on a prop purchase until I got the boat dialed in with all of the gear I want to carry, as well as doing so on a lake I could open the motor up on with a full tackle load, full tank, deck extension, bike seats, fishing partner, kitchen sink, etc.

Under these conditions I was able to hit 6000 RPM and do 52.5 MPH. The boat planed out in less than 5 seconds and stayed on plane at about 3300-3500 RPM at a speed of around 19-21 MPH. If it got over that range, however, it began to accelerate very quickly which made the rough stuff very unpleasant. I am still looking for improved handling on big water and want to be able to lift the boat out of the water so that I can ride high, dry, and as SLOW as possible while on plane. With the current set up it is hard to stay in the sweet spot so to speak.

Having said all of that, and based upon this revised performance information, does anyone have any insight on 19/21 pitch Rev 4 vs. 19/20/21 pitch Powertech? I can get a great deal on both props but don't have the time to dial it in by trial and error if I get the wrong size. I am also open to a High Five although I am unsure if I need to go up or down on the pitch of that prop due to the shorter blades.

As a final note I am open to other prop selections and blade options so that I can meet my performance goals without ever redlining the motor over 6000 RPM. While I know I can always throttle back to avoid the rev-limiter I don't ever want to worry about it happening by accident or at the hands of some other driver.

Thanks again,

Ruddiger

[Ruddiger]

Howdy,

Well I finally broke down and ordered an OFS4 in a 20 pitch from Propman who, I might add, is an outstanding fellow that I would highly recommend when you need help on purchasing your next prop.

Unfortunately, it took FOREVER to get conditions on Erie that allowed me to open it up to see where it shook out at wide open throttle. Here are the observations:

With a light chop, into the wind, the motor ran at 5500 RPM wide open at 46.5 miles per hour.

With a light chop, with the wind, the motor ran at 5600 RPM wide open at 48.5 miles per hour.

This was done at 75-80 degree temperatures with two guys, a full tank of gas, loaded with tackle and the deck extension. I did not have water or fish in the livewell (they did come later, however).

On the plus side, the boat rode noticeably better with the 4 blade Powertech prop as opposed to the stock Yamaha 3 blade. Faster hole shot and stayed on plane at lower RPMs without me constantly hawking the throttle to avoid acceleration. It also seemed to push the bow down more to cut the waves as opposed to riding over them and slamming down onto the next one. There was also less prop chatter, although it was still there.

On the negative side, aside from not getting close enough to 6000 RPM, I had to trim the motor WAY up to get to the 5500-5600 range, WAY higher then I would ever trim up the motor with a three blade, and almost to the point of blow out.

After discussing these numbers with Propman I elected to go down to an 18 pitch as moving down in pitch should pick up 150-200 RPMs per decrease in pitch. My suspicion is that I need something like an 18.5 pitch to cover the full spectrum of temperature from ice out to freeze up. If so I'll have Ricky work on it this winter.

On the positive side, I have received the new prop from Powertech. On the negative side, I have not been able to run it on the boat yet. I will post an update as soon as I get out in conditions that allow me to duplicate the previous test run with the 20 pitch prop.

Take care,

Ruddiger

[mick14]

I have the stock prop on my Yammi F224 fisherman 619vs. I also have "The Edge" hydrofoil and have a great ride in the rough and have hit 54.1 on GPS w/ 2 people, full livewell, 3/8 tank of gas. I fish mostly on Lake Oahe and have been in some pretty rough stuff. The hydrofoil made a big difference for me.

[Ruddiger]

Howdy,

Well I finally got the chance to open up the boat with the OFS4 in an 18 pitch. Here are the results:

Lite chop, full tank, mid 70s, loaded with gear, full deck extension and the dog I was able to hit 6000 RPM at 48.2 miles per hour and a bit above 3/4 trim. At exactly 3/4 trim I did 47.9. With similar conditions and a full live-well I was able to do 46.5. Hole shot was 2 seconds. The boat will also stay on plane at 3000 rpm at about 21 miles per hour.

Ideally I would like to have picked up a bit more on top but can not complain about the overall performance, fuel economy, and ability to plane out quickly. I may need to send it in for Ricky to tweak this winter depending on how the prop performs in cooler temperatures. All in all I highly recommend this set up for future 619 owners running a 225 Yamaha on big water.

Take care,

Ruddiger

[TravisC]

You should be able to run low 50s with that boat easy. i ran a 21p rev 4 on my 620 with a f-250 and a se sport fin had great holeshot and ran 53gps with a full load at 5900rpms best i saw was 58-59 with a lighter load with a 21p saltwater prop.

[Ruddiger]

Howdy,

I would like to see what the boat would do with a Rev 4 in a 19 pitch but am reluctant to drop the money on another prop without having some direct input from someone with the exact same rig. I suspect the F250 is a lot more engine than my F225. also, I really do not want to put a hydrofoil on the boat. Getting over 50 would be nice but, with a kicker, 4 batteries and all the add-ons on the boat I do not know if it is possible with a 4 blade and a F225.

Thanks,

Ruddiger

[Ruddiger]

Howdy,

As a final update for the boat I wanted to share the results of my retooled OFS4 prop after a week in Ontario:

Water temperature in the mid 40‘s

Air temperature in the high 30's to very low 50‘s (usually mid 40’s for the week)

Fully loaded boat, full tank, same gear and tackle as last time PLUS about 10 of the double thick 3700 Plano‘s loaded with Muskie tackle in the rear port storage container that were not in the boat on previous test runs (that container previously had boat bumpers in it), 9.9 kicker, deck extension, tons of tackle, 2-3 guys and the dog (55 lb lab)

Top speed 48.5 @ 6000 RPM, ¾ trim. I could have forced 6100 RPM with more trim (as an aside I will note that I think my gauge runs a little higher than the motor is actually running as I have hit 6100 RPM before on the gauge but have never shown any RPM above 6000 on my computer diagnostic history)

Interestingly, with either three guys and the dog or just me and the dog the top speed was the top speed. While I would like to have hit 50, I don‘t think it will happen.

Hole shot was fantastic, 2-3 seconds at the worst. 2 seconds at best. The only negative was a bit of proposing between 3500-4000 RPM with two guys, and 4000-4500 RPM with three. Very slight, and only noticeable at certain times depending upon waves and wind.

The prop is an 18 OFS4 pitched closer to a 19 at the tips, with the edges sharpened and 5/16 vent holes for good measure. Propman provided the customization.

With the air and water temps where they were I figure that I will be about 100-150 RPMs less in the summer time.

Still hoping to try a 19 REV-4 if Ricky can secure a loner. All in all, very good performance for my 619, especially for big water. If I could hit 50 and eradicate the slight proposing with a very full load it would be perfect. Having said that I would definitely recommend this setup for a 619 and an F225.

Take care,

Ruddiger

[W.W.]

Care to elaborate on why you went away from the Suzuki ?

I'm working out the details on an Alumacraft Tournament Sport 195 and was thinking the Yammie F200 but dealer is suggesting the Suzuki DF200.

He is also a Ranger dealer and has told me that Ranger is NOT recommending the Yammie be put on them; something about poorer hole shot and then the buyers always blame it on "The Ranger" boat.

He said the Suzie will perform better and have a better hole shot......

Just wondering why you went to Yammie ??????

W.W.

Thanks,

[Ruddiger]

Howdy,

My last boat had a 115 Johnson (really a 115 Suzuki) and it was a fantastic motor. The boat was a 620T. Where I live in Ohio there are VERY few Suzuki dealers. At the time I ordered the boat I was able to convince one of the Ranger dealers in the area to become a Suzuki dealer to close the sale. As we got closer to the point of no return the dealer was still having issues getting Suzuki to process the paperwork in time for the expiration date on their Gimme 6 promotion. I even went as far as to personally speak to the Suzuki Rep who assured me the deal would get done shortly. After speaking to the rep, however, I was so unimpressed with his product knowledge and overall expertise that I began to worry about the deal.

Ultimately, I decided (with no solicitation or pressure from the dealer) to have the dealer drop his efforts to go Suzuki and I went with the two Yamaha’s instead. It was totally my call, but after talking to my dealer, and especially after personally talking to the Suzuki Rep, I really believed it was the right thing to do. As great as my Suzuki was on my 620T, I was really worried that if my dealer went under in this economy that I wouldn't be able to get service in the Cleveland area. If all I had to rely on at that point was their rep, well.......

While Yamaha may be boring in the performance category, you can't swing a dead cat in northeast Ohio without hitting a Yamaha dealer. In the end I was able to do the switch to Yamaha for a $600.00 difference, which I have no doubt will be positively reflected in resale. It bought me a lot of peace of mind as well.

As for a Yamaha on a Ranger, aside from the 90 hp 4-stroke on a 618T, or any 4-stroke on a bass boat, I would really disagree with your dealer. Yamaha 2 strokes do very well on Rangers and my experience has been very good with a 4-stroke. Its hard to beat a 2-3 second hole shot on any fully loaded walleye boat. If you don't need a 4 blade for big water, the many options in a 3 blade will get you up on plane just as fast on inland waters and allow you to hit low to mid 50's. I know, because I have done it.

For what it is worth, having ran the motors for a full season, I would definitely do it again. I would even put the Yamaha 90 on a 618T as I believe a lot of it has to do with proper propping. Their holeshot "issues" are vastly overrated IMHO.

In the end I value reliability and service over anything else. Yamaha's give you that. I would prefer the Suzuki gear case, fuel injection and displacement over the Yamaha's, but I am glad that I chose the Yamaha's for their dealer network and resale in Ohio. The Yamaha's also came with the six year warranty on both motors. If there were more Suzuki dealers around here I would have gone with them but, unfortunately, its just not the case. In the end I got the Volvo over the BMW... either way I probably won't need the AAA membership.

Take care,

Ruddiger

[W.W.]

Ruddiger,

To be fair to my dealer.......his reference to not go with the Yammie for hole shot reasons was in the 4stroke line ONLY.

He is both a Yammie and Suzuki dealer and says the Ranger guys like the 4 stroke Suzies better; he'll sell me either one.

Says for service they have seen minimal problems with either.

I have 3 Suzuki dealers within 75 miles with the closest about 25 miles away. The Yammie dealers are actually farther however here in rural Iowa 25 miles is just enough to get the truck up to operating temp. :driver:

PS.........My county has a total of 2 stop lights (they added one a couple of years ago so now we have 2 !!!!) and the nearest grocery store is =\- 15 mile away !


Ah yes, Good Country Living :happy:

W.W.

[BW]

You won't see a Ranger with a 2 stroke needing a hydrofoil to plane out! You have a good hole shot by running a small prop, but your top end is about 10mph less than an equivalent 225HO or 225 PRO xs. I know people like the 4 strokes for reliability, but the performance is a little lacking.......just my 2 cents. I know I will get jumped on, but just expressing my opinion.....

[Ruddiger]

Howdy,

I'm sure that this will get me blasted in return but, frankly, I am really tired of the whole 4-stroke vs. 2-stroke back and forth on this board. Please take it to someone else’s post or start your own. Your post does nothing to address what I was initially asking and, after getting little feedback, attempted to provide insights on for future 619/F225 owners. The only way it could be less useful to what I was asking would be if it came from a guest.

If you love your 2 stroke that’s fantastic, truly. I have no doubt that they are much faster than a 4 stroke and give you great holeshot as well. I also have no doubt that they are not comparable to 4 strokes in the reliability department. I'm sure many will disagree with me on this but that’s fine, as I'm happy to live with my "mistake." Additionally, absent the advent of a time machine or some other alteration to the space-time continuum, your observation really isn't helping to address my question.

If my priority was to have a boat that would go 59 MPH with blistering holeshot I would have purchased a Pro XS. It wasn't, however. My priority was long term reliability, something that I do not believe can be provided by 2 strokes in comparison to 4 strokes. Furthermore, with the waters that I fish, going over 25 MPH is a luxury. 59 MPH is totally irrelevant to me as I drive like an old man............. and I like it.

At this time I am very pleased with the performance of my ultra slow 619 and my underperforming , and morbidly obese, F225. While I'm always open to trying another 4-blade to get it dialed in even more, the goal is not, and never was, to get 2 stroke performance out of a 4 stroke motor.

I apologize to all, in advance, for going off the reservation with my response.

Thanks and take care,

Ruddiger

[quackquackboom]

Well said - By the sounds of it, I'm sure you'll be happy with your Yammie once you get it propped right for big water. There's a lot of good suggestions on this thread from folks that know more about props than most!

[fish4trophy]

Ruddiger

Great comments, there are many of us who simply like to cruise and not go at top speed. I have an 1860 Angler with a F150 Yamaha and couldn't be happier. Interestingly many of my friends have chided me for not maxing out. For me it simply wasn't worth the money and rather had the kicker with the extra money. I like the quiet and after expermentation with props am more than happy with the hole shot. I fish the Missouri River mostly and speed can be a detriment especially if you forget where the sandbars are. I'm sure you'll enjoy your boat that is a great rig overall.

[BW]

My apologies Ruddiger. I do think the yammies are very reliable. On my 3rd T8. Just wasn't impressed with the demo I took with an F150, but propping may have been the issue. I guess having the fish and ski, I needed hole shot to pull the kids. You were looking for an entirely different application. Sorry again......

[Ruddiger]

Howdy,

Thanks B.W., however, I would like to apologize to you as well as I was a little hot this morning for a variety of reasons (i.e. Eric Mangini's existence in general) and it inappropriately influenced my response.

While the whole 2 stroke vs. 4 stroke rivalry is maddening, and the unaccountable access of the unregistered guest has ruined many a post, I know that advancing the rivalry and maliciously stirring the pot was not your intent. For what its worth, my first Ranger had a 115 Ficht Ram on it that ran flawlessly the 4 years that I owned it.

Again, I apologize for directing my frustration towards you with my reply.

Take care,

Ruddiger

[Dave A]

Watched on the sidelines long enough. While I have a bit different rig, maybe I can shed light. Have 08-620 w/ 09-F250 digital on 8" hyd jack, kicker etc. Loaded with 4 people, full fuel and gear pushing 3900-4000 lbs. Understand your questions and concerns. Came with Vmax 23p. Poor holeshot, some porpousing, struggle to stay on plane until 30 mph etc. would go like snot on top end and push close to 60 but i'm not tournament guy and run larger water so not always smooth anyway. Played with engine height and found best setting at about 5-1/2" - 6" prop centre shaft to pad. Ran Pro series 21P, much better but could over rev if not watching. still struggle to stay on plane but it was much better. Ran Rev 4 x 21p (remember I have a 250), Gets rear end up and on plane much, much better, decent holeshot (i'm happy), requires more trim than Vmax or Pro series to carry bow but boat handles excellent, carves out corners, much smoother ride (noticeably), carries plane at 23-24 mph, better fuel mileage, 3 people and 3/4 tank fuel pushes about 54-55 mph - plenty fast for me. Mid 50 degree weather runs 5900 RPM when maxed out. May be a little tall for the summer temps but I will find out. Have a Rev 4 x 19p, Awsome holeshot, (full plugs in PVS), Pushes the rev limits in fall but may be my choice for summer. Hope this helps. My opinion - on the 225, run the Rev 4 x 19P. You will be happy!

[CLDFRNT]

Does anyone have Propmanns phone no.
Thanks Mark N

[Hot Runr Guy]

Does anyone have Propmanns phone no.
Thanks Mark N
http://www.brainerdprops.com/

[CLDFRNT]

Thanks.

[Ruddiger]

Howdy,

I just wanted to post another prop update for my setup in the hopes of assisting another 619 owner who has a Yamaha F225 on their boat.

I recently had a chance to run an OFS3 in a 21 pitch that I got from Propmann (GREAT GUY…… give him your business)!!

Here are the numbers:

Full load 1/8 tank of gas, deck extension, kicker, loaded with tackle, a new Vector mounted on the transom and the dog I was able to do 6000 RPM at 7/8 trim and 56 MPH. For a 4 stroke that was flying. Holeshot was 4 seconds flat, with no holes or any other work done to the prop. It was totally stock. If speed is your thing, this prop is way better than the Yamaha M-21 the boat came with.

Personally, I preferred the way the boat drove with the 4 blade instead of the three. Not a slam on the 3 blade prop, but with my boat, and the short windows that I have on it, 56 MPH is faster than I need to go, and visibility actually becomes an issues without a welders mask. Plus, that extra blade allows you to take it to the next level, not unlike dialing up your amp to eleven.

In the end I have decided to add another OFS4 for my spare. I had Propmann do some work on the prop I ran in October to take some RPMs out of it and add some cupping. I also ordered another OFS4 prop to have the same thing done as well. Ultimately, I will have two identical props for all my needs.

Once I get the final numbers on them (I have not been able to run the re-worked OFS4 in an 18 pitch yet at WOT) I will update as needed.

Take care,

Ruddiger