The Future of Pro Walleye Tournaments

[Skrewl]

From the low numbers of contestants I think the future of pro walleye fishing is grim. The numbers have been on the decline for years.

If you add the "pros" from AIM and the FLW together they don't equal many more than 100.

There is little to no measurable interest on the internet with only a few hundred to a few thousand viewers of the events and the tournament TV shows featuring walleye fishing are also gathering very low ratings.

On the flipside the sport of walleye fishing in general is very popular and lots of folks, myself included, love fishing for them. Just seems to me the tournaments at the "pro" level have run their course.

Time to get back to the bar and small local events and get that greed out of the sport.

[Gary Parsons]

Guest,
Your general statement that walleye fishing TV shows get very low ratings is compared to what? NFL football? Then yes, but compared to other outdoor (hunting and fishing) sports this is not a blanket statement. I'll go on the record to state that The Next Bite television (at least 50% walleyes) gets great ratings and remains very popular. As far as Professional walleye tournaments having a future? I guess time will tell...
Gary Parsons

[guest]

Pro tournament fishing has run its course? I suppose American vehicle sales and good paying jobs have run thier course too? The housing market is shot and so is the economy. Lack of entries to these events is 100% the resposibility of the piss poor economy without a doubt. Sponsors of these events are just trying to survive at this point so its commendable that they help keep it going. If or when the economy gets rolling again there will be full fields in both pro/am and team format events

[Skrewl]

Nope to blaming the lack of participants on the economy. Numbers have steadily been on the decline for years. The economy is the reason for a few more folks to back out, but not the bottomline catalyst.

Okay Gary. Your show is not a tournament walleye fishing show, that is what I am speaking about. I stated that walleye fishing in general is very popular. Your show is a generalist walleye fishing program along with other fish with teeth, NOT a tournament fishing program covering tournaments.

The tournament interest regarding "pro" walleye fishing events is low, very low. Just look at the real numbers at WC for the live events, WF and whatever the AIM viewership was, although nobody from that group has been very boisterous regarding the actual viewership.

We're talking hundreds, maybe a few thousand at the most. Not very encouraging. Since that is all that is offered for walleye events, except for the untimely FLW Walleye tour and MWC coverage the numbers don;t show much interest. Again, in "pro" walleye tournaments and the coverage.

[Skrewl]

By untimely I mean the TV coverage for the FLW Walleye tour and the MWC.

[guest]

The economy didnt get bad overnight this crap really started a couple years ago. The FLW had full fields in 2007 and the Mwc was getting 200 at spring valley and 100 every where else. The "recession" has been going on in the midwest for much longer than anywhere else. Dont believe me ask someone from Michigan.

[crankie]

I think pro walleye tournaments would be done if the guys that can afford to lose were'nt still hanging in.I know a couple of guys giving up the major tournaments for local trails and club,bar, or resort tournaments.With some of them paying out up to and some times over 10,000 for a 300-500 dollar entry why travel the country to spend thousands for a chance at 20,000.Even the small tourneys are getting contingency money for certain rigs.:huh:

[beenthere]

I think that in general, Professional Walleye Tournament fishing has run its course (at least under the current paradigm).

The fact that the entries into pro events is down right now is more indicative of the “entrants” not having money than of “sponsors” not having money. Therein lies the real problem…The “entrants” can’t afford it (i.e. the entrants pay to play, thus they are not doing it). This is not like other professional sports where most of the “elite” participants are doing it for a living. VERY, VERY few do this for a living, and those that do barely get by in most cases.

The PWT used to sell the illusion that these were the best fisherman in the world doing the dream job of fishing for a living. This illusion made many think that paying your dues and working hard would eventually result in someday doing this for a living. This illusion created a constant flow of rookies hoping to make their dreams come true. The average guy took between 3-5 years to figure out that even their heroes were portraying an image and an illusion that didn’t really exist.

This is a very incestuous sport/industry. The fans are the competitors and the customers. For example…The FLW’s customers are tournament fisherman…Rangers customers are tournament fisherman that want to “live the dream”…thus they buy boats from Ranger above dealer cost and call themselves “sponsored” with the illusion that if they work hard enough Ranger will eventually give them a big pile of money and a free boat every year. The anglers think there is some mythical consumer out there that is buying $50K boat packages for fun fishing just because he saw a pro walleye tournament on TV. It’s not reality. There is no mythical consumer out there…The consumer is another guy hoping to make it in the pro fishing world.

So you have a zero sum game. The money comes from people who hope to someday do this for a living. This only works as long as the illusion is still believed. Once the illusion goes away, so does the sport (at least in its current incarnation).

[sideline watcher]

Did you notice that every sport has a competitive aspect - from ping pong to volleyball to pool to even carp fishing!
There are 99% of the participants that love the activity, and 1% that love the competition. It's just that with fishing that the 1% is a huge market (for big boats, specialized tackle, electronics, etc.)
So there will ALWAYS be fishing tournaments. Will they ALL look like the old PWT? No - that didn't work for a variety of oragnizational and marketing reasons.
That's why I applaud AIM for at least trying something NEW! What is the point is doing things the same way they were done in the past? The past can not be repeated. Maybe some of their ideas will set a new standard, while others won't work and will need to be retooled. In my opinion, the only way to survive is to continually innovate - and that includes delivering prospective customers to brands that have nothing directly related to fishing (after all, we all eat, drive vehicles, take medication, buy electronics, etc..)

[been there 2]

Very well put! how many years did it take you to figure it out? 6 for me but I've always been a slow learner.

I think that in general, Professional Walleye Tournament fishing has run its course (at least under the current paradigm).

The fact that the entries into pro events is down right now is more indicative of the “entrants” not having money than of “sponsors” not having money. Therein lies the real problem…The “entrants” can’t afford it (i.e. the entrants pay to play, thus they are not doing it). This is not like other professional sports where most of the “elite” participants are doing it for a living. VERY, VERY few do this for a living, and those that do barely get by in most cases.

The PWT used to sell the illusion that these were the best fisherman in the world doing the dream job of fishing for a living. This illusion made many think that paying your dues and working hard would eventually result in someday doing this for a living. This illusion created a constant flow of rookies hoping to make their dreams come true. The average guy took between 3-5 years to figure out that even their heroes were portraying an image and an illusion that didn’t really exist.

This is a very incestuous sport/industry. The fans are the competitors and the customers. For example…The FLW’s customers are tournament fisherman…Rangers customers are tournament fisherman that want to “live the dream”…thus they buy boats from Ranger above dealer cost and call themselves “sponsored” with the illusion that if they work hard enough Ranger will eventually give them a big pile of money and a free boat every year. The anglers think there is some mythical consumer out there that is buying $50K boat packages for fun fishing just because he saw a pro walleye tournament on TV. It’s not reality. There is no mythical consumer out there…The consumer is another guy hoping to make it in the pro fishing world.

So you have a zero sum game. The money comes from people who hope to someday do this for a living. This only works as long as the illusion is still believed. Once the illusion goes away, so does the sport (at least in its current incarnation).

[rebs]

I don't know about your area, but in my area fishing as a hole has declined, I am talking walleye, bass, perch etc. There are fewer boats on the water and fewer boats in the slips, with more than the usual boats still on land in shrink wrap.
Yes I believe this did start a couple years ago as the economy started to go bad and gas prices went up as well as everything else including utilities, groceries, mortgages, rent, insurance and everything else you can name. Unemployment here is about 10 percent right now and rising. Alot of people are really feeling the financial pain, this is a fact.
The pro's expenses to enter a tournament and travel expenses etc. along with their other expenses I mentioned have to be playing a part in the number of entries to tournaments, as well as the local Joe that just isn't able to get on the water as much as he used to.
It seems as everything around us is changing, so is the sport of fishing.
Why did Walleye Insider go under, was it because of loss of interest by the readers or was it because what started out as a monthly magazine ended up as a magazine that sometimes put 4 months in a issue that was no bigger than the single months edition ?
The next bite show is a great show and I believe will continue to have a great fiield of viewers as well as anglers edge with Al Lindner.

[beenthere]

To answer your question...after my first year, I figured out that the traditional approach of boat sponsors and tackle sponsors leading to a new full-time career was just an illusion propagated by the pro tours and the endemic sponsors themselves. However, it took me another 4 years to give up.

I thought that I could still do it by relying on my marketing background and make it with non-endemic sponsors. I had gotten to the point where I was getting enough cash and product that the tournaments and equipment didn’t cost me anything, but I was a LONG, LONG way from doing this for a living.

The plain and simple truth was that non-endemics were not going to give up “make a living” kind of money when the exposure numbers just simply weren’t there. I couldn’t get much TV exposure in the PWT because they had their own non-endemics that they were promoting, and in the FLW getting exposure for a non-FLW sponsor was absolutely impossible. Even when I did get some TV time, the viewership numbers were very small, and the exposure was far from a guarantee. So, I had to rely on magazine exposure for my articles, highway exposure with my rig and personal appearances. The sponsorship dollars just became asymptotic (they got to a certain point, and never increased)…

In the end, I had to look at it purely from a business perspective, and put aside the dream of being a professional fisherman.

[Been there 2]

Yeah, I had it figured after a couple of years but then we formed NPPA and our hopes were high once again. But the writing was always there on the wall if you really wanted to see it.

[been there 3]

OK - we all think it is a dream job when we start and, for a very few, it is one....but they worked and sacrificed to get there. Others may have money from an inheritance, a rich spouse, etc. But......
Must of us idiots just pony up $1500-$1750 per tournament, pay $600.00 a month on a boat, $300.00 a month on a truck (or more), $200 a year in licenses, $4000.00 a year in gas, $2000 per year in tackle and gear, $1000 per year in insurance, $1-3000 a year in tolls, ramp fees, park entrance fees, lodging and other needed things to travel around the country chasing a fish and a trophy.
I was lucky and paid my way for a couple of years off of winnings and "promotional/prostaff" pricing on stuff I then sold at the end of the season. Those days ARE LONG GONE.....when you finish in the top ten and can't even cover the cost of expenses (look at 5th through 10th for the last 3 FLW's), it is well past the time to find a new hobby.
The only thing it is good for is a tax write off now.
I think will try Bass next year: at least it is rarely snowing in a tournament, you can catch them in the puddle across the street, the gear is a lot cheaper (because Bass are pretty stupid and hit anything), the boats are faster and the waves aren't bigger than my kids!

[Terroreyes]

IMHO, walleye tournament fishing just lacks the right presentation on TV. Think about it. Most of us watch the bass tourneys on TV, but very few bass fans are interested in walleye tourneys on TV. Bass fishing has a much more exciting and intense presentation, which attracts non-fanatics, like us. I love the FLW shows, but honestly, if I wasn't all hyped to possibly see someone with my lures out there, I'd be more inclined to watch a bass show. Walleye tournament fishing, as it's currently presented, is borderline boring. Sorry to say it, but even I feel that way. Someone needs to bring the non-walleye fanatic viewers into the equasion with more intensity, excitement, more intimate camera work, or something. It's just not there yet. Unless that changes, I don't think it will ever grow significantly. Once you get the viewers and TV $$$ involved, the rest will take care of itself!!!

Due to PC issues, I missed the AIM feed, but from what I heard and read, the in-boat presentation sounds like they're onto something. Only time will tell. Obviously, what we've got isn't growing.

All just IMHO. :)

[FuzzzyIL]

beenthere - you totally nailed it. I was also once trapped in the illusion. I had a blast and learned so much, I have no regrets. The experience gave me the confidence where I can approach any body or water and be able to find and catch walleye/sauger. I don't mean first cast or first pass, but through searching and effort I can find em. So I have that and it was worth all the bad weather, long drives and broken gear.

There is one other point regarding PWA that I have even seen major Pro's post about, that is walleye angling just isn't as 'sexy' or appealing compared to object oreinted bass angling or even red fish. Nobody wants to watch some guy covered head to toe in rain gear reel in 9 colors of core only to put a 19 incher in the net. That is only appealing to hard core
walleye anglers like us.

PWA peaked in the 90's early 00's and has been slipping since. Too bad, but facts are facts.

Glad I didn't quit my day job back then.

[NDr]

I heard things were tough for this industry. But it really didn't strike home until I started seeing a lot of these pro fisherman in the Devils Lake area guiding for next to peanuts. It'd be one thing if there was a big tourney here this year and they were getting paid to learn the lake, but there really aren't any.

[eyeamdaman]

What sparks interest these days? It's real life.

Do you ever catch yourself watching a TV Reality show based on a story that you shouldn't be interested in, but yet you still watch it? The majority of America could care less about a family with 8 kids, yet millions are glued to the TV each week watching Jon and Kate Plus 8. Or how about the drama that happens on Deadliest Catch?

How about this?

A show that truly tells the story of what an angler goes through out on the tour. A show that not only covers the fishing, but also the 14 hour road trip back from the Missouri River, or the fact that your teamates are starting to annoy you etc...

I want to see reality- not some BS from The "Everything is Perfect in Walleye Land" show.
I want to see the little $hithole hotels these angers are staying in.
I want to see them looking at maps and hashing things over with teamates.
I want to see them argue with their teamates
I want to see someone stand up and call another competitor "Tailpiper"
I want to see the celebration after winning the tourney
I want to see what a guy says after he got his butt kicked on his home body of water
I want to know what these guys do for their real jobs.
I want to see pranks and jokes these guys play on each other.
I want to know who's a jerk? Who's a nice guy?

You get the picture.

[Terroreyes]

What sparks interest these days? It's real life.

Do you ever catch yourself watching a TV Reality show based on a story that you shouldn't be interested in, but yet you still watch it? The majority of America could care less about a family with 8 kids, yet millions are glued to the TV each week watching Jon and Kate Plus 8. Or how about the drama that happens on Deadliest Catch?

How about this?

A show that truly tells the story of what an angler goes through out on the tour. A show that not only covers the fishing, but also the 14 hour road trip back from the Missouri River, or the fact that your teamates are starting to annoy you etc...

I want to see reality- not some BS from The "Everything is Perfect in Walleye Land" show.
I want to see the little $hithole hotels these angers are staying in.
I want to see them looking at maps and hashing things over with teamates.
I want to see them argue with their teamates
I want to see someone stand up and call another competitor "Tailpiper"
I want to see the celebration after winning the tourney
I want to see what a guy says after he got his butt kicked on his home body of water
I want to know what these guys do for their real jobs.
I want to see pranks and jokes these guys play on each other.
I want to know who's a jerk? Who's a nice guy?

You get the picture.


:rock-on::rock-on::rock-on:

[perchjerker]

I live in walleye world here in se mich

go to any launch, guys have everything for catching them, all the latest stuff.

ask any of them about walleye tournies, where the big ones are in the area and when, etc

very very few know

or care

all they want to do is catch fish.

they could give a rats butt about tournies.

thats the truth, ask them yourself....

[stevefellegy]

Eyeamdaman gets it! THATS what Sportcenter covers when marketing major league sports. The good, the bad, the ugly...everything. And on the side they actual talk about the x's and o's a little too.

Fact is, which most in the industry will NOT give in to "because fishing is different", it will NEVER grow until everyone involved realizes (like it or not) that the eyeamdamans of the world are right.

Like it or not..he's right on!

[eyeamdaman]

Thanks Guys.

I have a close friend who fishes the FLW. After each tourney, I get the basics (who won, what he was doing etc.), but my next question is always, "Give me the tour gossip!" Who's team is falling apart?, who's pi$$ed off at who? etc...

I fish smaller tourneys. My partner and I have talked about, "What if there was a camera in our boat today?". We decided that only HBO would be able to broadcast it! To many F*** words, too much talk about the hot babe in the bikini up on shore etc... But hey, I think people would watch it!

To be honest, the current FLW Tourney Videos are so freakin peachy. Quite borning.

Hate to say it, but the walleye world needs a Mike Icconelli.

[Hot Runr Guy]

Hate to say it, but the walleye world needs a Mike Icconelli.

Funny you mention Mike, I'm watching his City Limits show (featuring Detroit) as I type this. I wonder if another part of the Walleye vs Bass attraction is the type of fishing presentations used. Most Bass guys are casting their brains out, do we really want to watch Walleye guys (and gals) dragging boards and trolling baits we can't see most of the time?
HRG

[walleyedmike]

I can tell you that I, personally, have only fished 1 tournament this year because I am feeling the sting of the poor economy. In early April, I went to work one Monday morning after fishing a Full Throttle tournament with my son, only to find all of my personal belongings packed up and waiting at the front door for me. My position had been eliminated, business was too slow for the company to keep me on board.

Talk about being blindsided! I don't think I've been the same since.......
Things aren't looking too good for the printing industry as a whole right now, I guess I have some thinking to do.

Would I be fishing more tournaments had I not lost my job? YOU BET!!!!

[teamlund]

Maybe I am the only one but I cant stand watching bass fishin becasue of Mike Ic. I cannot stand him, he looks like an idiot. but he has brought alot of attention to basss fishin.

[dutchboy]

One of the most interesting things I have ever read on the net is a season long journal from a bass guy. They started with the pre-fishing stuff and went through the whole tourny season. Covered having the family with him, family back at home. Sponsorship money coming and going. Truck break downs, boat break downs. Pre-fishing snafu's, weather issue's ect. Mental thoughts both good and bad.

I was riveted to the articles. Show me anything exciting about Walleye fishing?

[walleyechaser]

well i think someone should sit down with al linder and get his opinion! i bet he has a solution! i praise people like gary p and kieth k for what they did and are doing for the walleye industry.

[Raybob]

IMHO, walleye tournament fishing just lacks the right presentation on TV. Think about it. Most of us watch the bass tourneys on TV, but very few bass fans are interested in walleye tourneys on TV. Bass fishing has a much more exciting and intense presentation, which attracts non-fanatics, like us.

Bass can be caught very easily by trolling, meat and strolling, but BASS moved it up to another level from the very start in the 60s by saying that's a No-No ~ you gotta have the skills to locate & cast/jig for them in the Bass world ;)

BTW ...it would seem that various methods like spoonpluging & etc would be a good active-structure aid in "pre-fishing" for Bass if done w/in the rules...

[reality]

well i think someone should sit down with al linder and get his opinion! i bet he has a solution! i praise people like gary p and kieth k for what they did and are doing for the walleye industry.

Al and Keith and Gary are definately legends and pioneers in this sport and deserve all the credit in the world for getting the sport to where it is today.

However, their marketing angle of "teaching the world how to catch fish" has taken the sport as far as it can go. The sport doesn't need advice from other "bait dunkers" on how to grow the sport. The sport needs the talents of someone who can get it to the next level and increae the fan base beyond other walleye tournament fisherman in the northern mid-west.

[bradley894]

LETS NOt forget about ourselves when we first started our quest for the illusive Walleye! Though many of us are more seasond , We hafta remember there are thousands of new younger fisherman.. on there home lakes. that need our more experianced walleye anglers advise and tips more than ever!
The teachings of the Linders and the Pwt ,Mwc,flw and other pro's Guides and avid anglers is important!
Ya we on here all thing we know it all! we think we cant learn much anymore! but to the thousands of new anglers... the young husbands who are searching for a get away.. a fish to catch with there kids.. something to go after on the weekend... a small tiller boat.. the family pet Duke along side and the hope f catching a walleye dinner! These young fisherman need the basics from The experianced individuals above! the old washed up wannabe tournament pro like myself isnt the market Aim or infisherman or anyone with a goal to make a living need to go after! The truth is they need to do what they do best and go after New walleye hunters! teach them like you taught us! there will always be a demand for information! Ya a lot more 17 ft deep v's with a tiller will be sold ove a 21ft glass rig with a 300 verado! but as long as walleyes swim! and as long as they are so yummy! as long as there is a little tavern fishing durby, and as long as worms keep comming out of the ground! I dont care if i hafta go out to my little rockpiles with a row boat like 50 years ago folks did! The thirst for the tricks of the trade will always be in demand! Yes this may be the future! If our Political representives keep it up we will have no more expensive hobbies! we wont catch and release! we will catch and eat! it doesnt matter if you fish , golf, race cars, show horses , or go to car shows.... its all getting cut back! just looking at our state and national budgets in the last week i have come to the conclusion that i just lost 1,700.00 out of my houshold income directly threw taxes and fee's im an average joe! This isnt counting the fact that there will an estimated doubling of all fuel expenses from gas to electic in the next 2 years and within five they will tripple based on the new green proposals. its time to go catch fish and think of ways to get our priorities strait! to get our hands around the necks of the folks creating our new laws! time to get ahold of your state reps in the midwest as all our our jobs are leaving! we jump in the boat for a day to figure out how to get away from this crap! Yet we wont have the abuility to do even that if we ignore it anymore!
I HOLD OUR ECONOMY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE WALLEYE TOURNAMENT SLOWDOWN! i hole currupt insider deals responsible for the fall of our economy and our sell out politions on all sides of the isle responsible for looking the other direction! until we get this sorted out if we can make this country strong again//// i think if your smart you go back to the basics! run that 16 or 17 ft rig... pick your crawlers after a good rain! pack a lunch and you better go with the intentions of bringing home a meal! Or your wife is going to look for places to cut the budget just like your employer! You may find not just your toolbox or desk items on the step but also your big sparkly boat and all your fishing gear durring the next rummage sale.

[bradley894]

I would say its time to start looking for tournament locations anglers can compete with smaller riggs!
I would guess that some of the top notch big water events being left out may open up your participation by anglers with smaller less expensive boats!. I know we all love to see the flash but there is nothing wrong with a 17 foot boat with a 90hp motor! a single axle and more economical truck may be attractive for many! I remember guys like Steve above running a 17 ft lund for years! pulled with a jeep cherokee with an inline 6 cyl. the expence is out of controle! increase participation and promote smaller more reasonable packages! also boat packages that the average joe can afford or the pro will be able to sell at the end of the year without taking a beating!

[YEAH]

Let's see the FLW NOT edit out the FLW angler that didn't make the top ten. But still followed Brosdahl to ALL his spots and gpsed them on the final day. Even fished a couple while Bro was there.