So... what's the beef with the new Storm lures?

[Wurm]

I have heard a lot of crying going on with Storm's new lures, especially the new plastic lipped Hot-N-Tots. So why is everyone ranting and raving over the changes? I haven't had the chance to use them yet, but maybe the new plastic lips make the lures run better? Is there really that big of a difference in the two?

Now I know that some of you are miffed about the company dropping your favorite colors, but they still have the basics, and really... isn't that all you need? I have seen color make a difference, but not that often. Is a lure with five polka-dots really going to out fish a lure with only four polka-dots?

Now don't get me wrong, I am not trying to start a big argument here, but I really want to know what you think. Are the new lips, and new colors really going to make a difference in your fishing? What about all these other brands of lure we use to catch walleye... it doesn't seen to be a big deal with them.

[The Critic]

This post sounds like someone who is in charge of designing Storm Lures.

[Art/Co]

Let me point out first that I love the original Hot-n-tot, yet every time I catch a nice fish on one it seems that I have to retune the lure as it will not run correctly or the same. My question is will I have to do the same thing with the new plastic lip lure? If I don't have to retune the new model I'll be dumping all 75 of the old model. Why should I waste time retuning?

Art

[SUPERTROLLER]

My "beef" is simple. They took my favorite style lure and changed the Bill, the body, the action, the depth it runs, and eliminated 80% of my color options. If anyone hard a hard time tuning the old style lures with the metal lip and elongated line tie, you must not know how to tune any lure. You could do those with your fingers and rarely needed to grab a pliers. Several times I had some pike and muskie's do a real number on the tie but this was the exception.

This all being said. The new plastic imitation Tots do retain the hunting action and "kick-out" of the old style. This is different than the action of the wobble and roll that was changed by the metal lip and different body shape.

[Backwater Eddy]

The plastic lips on the Hot'n ToTs is just a bad plan from the get go. I have now switched to the Canadian Wiggler and the Heddon Clatter Tad because of the change in Hot-N-Tot lip style.

The metal lip Hot-N-Tot's were the go to deep runner for many situations where banging off a few rock and some added flash was a good plan. The new lips are not likely to take too many rock hits and survive. Reports are not very good on them so far.

The "old" classic T-Stick and Suspending T-Sticks ran much better in my opinion, as did the deep Jr-T-Sticks and full size deep diver T-Sticks.

Just my opinion as a long time T-Stick fan.

Backwater Eddy ~ ~><sUMo> ~ ><>

http://home.talkcity.com/ResortRd/backwtr1/index.html

[crash]

Its not like they modified it, or made the new one better. ITS A COMPLETLY DIFFERENT LURE WITH COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ABILITIES!

The metal lip MADE the hot-n-tot, its what gave it its bottom bouncing, rock russling abilitys. Try running the new one that way and you gonna get a nice collection of bodyless lips. So now we have an open water non tuning trolling lure...gee, how many more of those do I need?

Colors, I can live with some changes, I have markers and paint, I'll make em work. BUT I SHOULDNT HAVE TOO. They where available already, sold in good numbers. Why change em?? I think its just setting up to liquidate the storm name altogether.

And the thundersticks!! yeeeeeeeeee...did I realy need a plastic version of the rapala? NO

It plain ol sucks that the old thunderstick is not available. These out performed the new ones in every condition on more then just walleyes. From Pike to panfish, my old ones out produced the new ones at every turn.

Oh, but I dont have to tune em huh??

HI B.E.!!

[ETT]

I think the real beef is, they took what wasn't broken and tried to fix it. The perception is that they bought the competition, gutted the color selection and then restyled the lure in an attempt to kill the product line. For regions like Saginaw Bay where the Hot-N-Tot was "the lure" it was a real blow.

Now I said "perception"!!! I can't believe this is what realy happened but there are plenty that do.

I hope this helps clear it up for you.

[Cangl]

Well if you take an angus bull slaughter it and put it in the "freezer" Then go out to the chicken coop take a chicken prepare it to eat and invite company over for a "angus beef steak" Don't you really think your guests might realize they should have brought hot dogs? :+ Us "guests" do. On the other hand the "new Lazy Ike's" err (pardon us if we refuse to call those "lures" what there trying to take credit for) have been around awhile and in the smallest sized lip crankbait that caught fish I have used.

[Walleye Express]

Wurm.
I think unless you fish Saginaw Bay imparticular, the change arguement may lose a lot of clout with you. As I mentioned in another post, the Hot-N-Tots popularity was at it's best on the Saginaw. And believe me, it's not just one of those (the lure I always use) arguments. I was on Storms writers list for 12 years and dealt closely with their PR rep., Sharon Andrews. More than half the Tot's sold in the USA in a season were to Saginaw Bay outlets. The whole dynamics of this lure, rather it be the bill, clevas, action, diving ability, whatever, worked. And yes, I've had tuning problems as well. And usually, by just bending the bills line attachment snap one way or the other a tad, this problem was taken care of. How do you defend loosing an old friend that never let you down, could adapt to many/any situation, and was cut down in the prime of his life. Sounds funny hey? But thats the way I feel about it. Pass me that hanky will ya? Capt: Dan. www.walleye-express.com

[crash]

That the Storm line will be gone in five years and rapala will claim "poor sales" as the reason.

If I wasn't here, I'd be fishn.

[Walleye Express]

Crash.
You the man. And I also had a beef with them changing the T-stick Junior. I can't count how many big River kings I sent to Salmo-heaven on my river charters using the old Rainbow color. Now she's gone forever. I think you were right on the money. Normarks end goal is to wipe out the Storm name. Well, I got news for them. I don't like 2% milk and I'll never drink it. Capt: Dan.

[DarrenB]

Since you say you haven't used them, maybe that is why you don't understand our griping. I'm not as familiar with the Hot 'n Tots as I am the Thundersticks, so I will speak mainly of the Tsticks here. The other posters are correct, they have completely changed the entire lure. From the action, the depth it runs at to the overall profile of the lure. They have tried to fix something that was never broken. It no longer wobbles the same, suspends the way it did or sink/rise the same way during a slow retrieve. A characteristic that was built into the old Tstick was a downward "curl" where the head would slowly tilt down and the tail would rise up a bit, when the lure was paused. This curl would trigger following/neutral walleyes like you wouldn't believe. The new lure, when paused in front of finicky walleyes on a rock ledge or dropoff just sits there horizontally with no secondary action or triggering characteristic. Though I've tried and experimented, here we are at least a year later and I have yet to catch a fish on the new Tsticks, while I am stll getting bites working the old ones. I haven't seen the new Hot 'n Tots yet. I hope they are better than the Tsticks.

[whitetips]

I agree on the beefs, the colors were butchered, but there are some new colors also, I will say also the bill came right out the nose of the lure straight. Now it its at an angle which will not get the same high action as the old model. I will try a few colors and new ones in specific places, but flatlines , NOWAY. Some kind a weight system will be needed to offset the chg in action on the bill, to get it down.

[perchjerker]

I have an idea...why doesnt Storm, Normark or who ever owns the patent sell it to Scott here at WC? He could make a mint off of it and really put this site on the map!!!:)
Hey, he could call it the Scott-n-Tot!

[PrimeTime]

I loved the Storm Jr. Thunderstick in both shallow and deep. The new ones don't compare at all. For shallow running stick boats, NOTHING enticed walleyes like the jr. t-stick.

[whitetips]

the small Renosky is similar in size, bill and action, plus the colors are metallics, if they can continue on color selection and the small diver, they are the jr replacement in my opinion, but I agree it stinks, Big dogs now are the Big reef, and Div. Sup Rouge (Yes, ETT, Scott S. never returned an Email or Phone call)

[Backwater Eddy]

I agree Crash, a highly likely scenario.

They will accumulate and assimilate, like the Borg on Star Track.

Like the Borg would say once the boarded the ship, “Residence is futile”.

;)


Backwater Eddy ~ ~><sUMo> ~ ><>

http://home.talkcity.com/ResortRd/backwtr1/index.html

[crash]

Hehehee, nice twist on it BE...

The ONLY bright spot in this whole fiasco has been assimulated Storms venture into soft plastics. The Wildeye has been impressing the local striper folk. And the Rattleshad has some definate potential too. Maybe we'll be looking at rapala discontinuing storms hard baits and have them be the soft plastic side of the deal?

If I wasn't here, I'd be fishn.

[Backwater Eddy]

I like the new Storm Wide Eye Shads, stocked up on them.

Not a bad deal all rigged for $3. I will see how fast they get the tails ripped off before I decide if I like them just a little, or a lot. I can see pike tearing the tails off PDQ.


Backwater Eddy ~ ~><sUMo> ~ ><>

http://home.talkcity.com/ResortRd/backwtr1/index.html

Cherish reciprocal benevolence, which will make you as anxious for another's welfare as your own.

- Aristippus of Cyrene, 365 BCE

[Kevin/CO]

It depends on how you look at the bait as to whether it being redesigned matters a lot or a little. The metal lip was one of the most important things for me about the hot'n tot. I could litterally beat the snot out of that lure and it wouldn't break, I could cast it against pillars, outlets, docks and nothign would happen. I could bang it against the bottom whether it be logs, rocks, weeds or sand and it would come back in the exact same shape. The metal lip gave the hot'n tot such an unique action that in areas pressurized heavily by baits from the rapala line it could boat tons of fish. Storm had probably one of the biggest color lines in the entire industy and on some bodies of water certain non traditional colors dominate heavily and with original storm baits you could fish those colors in baits with great actions. I for one will continue to look for original hot'n tots in my favorite colors and won't fish the new ones for a very long time.

[Big Sky]

If Normark bought Storm, didn't they buy the molds to make these? If so, why not just have the same lure with different Mfg on it? Sorry if this has been posted, but a new answer will save me a search.

[DarrenB]

My guess is the same as some of those mentioned before. Elimination by contraction. Rapala probably wants to push and promote their own new line of baits. So by buying out one of their biggest competitors in Storm, getting rid of the popular line that challenged Rapala, and turning these new lures into junk...they are esentially killing their own competition and boosting their own Rapala lures. Why they went through all of the trouble to even create a new line of bad lures when their original intent is to GET RID of Storm lures eventually is beyond me. Maybe to make a few exra bucks off of the Storm faithfuls before they kill the product off altogether.

[Hooky]

Cabela's advertises the new thundersticks as having the same action as the old ones. Is this not true?

[DarrenB]

No way. Not at all and not even close. Look at the two lures side by side and you'll notice how different they are. Besides the action, they ruined the colors also.

[crash]

If you was to knock the bills off of both of em maybe!!

The new thunderstick fishes JUST LIKE a rapala. The old one would dive right away, suspend alot better, had quite a knack at jerk'n..the new ones? Just like a rapala. Tough to get down, same side to side rolln of a rapala, instead of the wide wobble
of the old ones.

Plastic rapala, nothing more..


If I wasn't here, I'd be fishn.

[luredaddy]

Let me know how you do adjusting the plastic lip, if you really were a serious fisherman using Hot n Tots, you would not have asked the queestion!

[Phil]

I troll Lake Erie for yaers an always depended on hot-n-tots an rattle tots. Simaply put they cuaght fish!!! I don't understand why rapala would change what dindn't need to be fix unless there intensions where up to no good. Not only did they mest up the hot-n-tots they dont make the rattle tots at all. stuip people at rapala. There mangement must not fish.

[Walleye Express]

Phil.
It's my guess that the really smart/always neutral people is Sweden never gave a thought about what the consiquences would be. They had to look at this transaction totally as a business move. Lets face it, their whole world had been bulsa for years. Ever since sven, or oli, or whatever the heck his name was, started carving wood instead of killing germans. I do love their Husky Jerks and big #18 for walleye in the spring during the night bite though. But I wonder just how much (if any) imput they asked for, before crap canning the old molds and charging head long into this new design. I'm sure many of the guys (walleye Pro's) who knew it may be a mistake, did not want to kill the golden (entry fee) goose by suggestion this may be a mistake. I'm thinking I would not be on the Rapala team very long myself, as I usually say what I'm thinking. The wife says it's a form of terrets, minus the profanity. Capt: Dan.

[Buckeye]

I would like to think the old design tooling is still sitting in Rapala's bone yard but that may be wishful thinking. When any of us tried to improve a piece of equipment or the way we did something, my grandpa always warned not to "throw away the crank". He heard that from his father when he put an electric motor on a kraut cutter and declaired it was a better more efficient machine.

In reading these posts the same thing ETT said came to mind.....If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I have the most confidence trolling 'Tots in mid summer on the west end of Erie and don't like the lack of color selection or plastic lips on the Rapala version. I sure hope the "crank" is still in one piece.......

[JIMBO2]

I sure hope this guy knows what he's in for asking a question like that!

[Charlie 909]

Has anyone considered it just might have something to do with a thing called profit. The new ones might be easier,faster and cheaper to make.

[Walleye Express]

Yup, thats true Charlie 909. But I've seen them cheap cuts of steak rot in the showcase. Capt: Dan.

[Mark (Bay City )]

There were only two things that really caught fish on Saginaw. Hot-N-Tots and Pas.Now were down to one. Lets hope Pas dosen't change.

Mark

[Backwater Eddy]

Out with the old (even if it is in demand), so now we can sell you our new. First eliminate the old so new is the only choice available.

Rapala is very confident there past buyers will not jump ship to other manufactures. Many do, it is a free market and other companies do make great plugs too.

I buy more SALMO’s, Cotton Cordell’s & Smithwick’s then Rapala’s today due to all the marketing ploys and changes.

What really ticks me off is some of the so called eliminated Rapala styles and colors we all miss are available in other countries yet today, but not in the USA or Canada.

South America, Australia, and Africa they still can get stuff that we no longer can find stateside. The classic #18 for one was altered slightly and marketed as a saltwater plug with saltwater hooks, but yet very much still available overseas. If you snoop around the Internet you can see examples of this marketing strategy.

Marketing, pure and simple.

Backwater Eddy ~ ~><sUMo> ~ ><>

http://home.talkcity.com/ResortRd/backwtr1/index.html

[GullGuide]

About a year before Rapala bought Storm, I was talking to a Storm Sales rep at the sportshow in MPLS. He mentioned to me then that Rapala was trying to buy out Storm and the entire reason for this was that they were out to kill the company. It was his understanding that they were going to kill it outright instead of doing what they inevitably did, which was ruin every one of their lures. I had been telling people I knew about this conversation and they just laughed, saying Storm would never sell out.....well, you all know what happened there.
Maybe the reason they are taking the route they did instead of just killing the company altogether was because of legal issues?

I think now would be the time for some industrious soul to take matters into their own hands and develop a line of baits almost identical to the old lures, maybe change them just enough as to not get sued by Rapala, i.e.- move the eye position a bit or whatever.

[DarrenB]

Interesting story that came from the Storm representative, saying how they planned on killing the lures outright. Still, even if they did have to keep the Hot n' Tots and Tsticks around because of some type of legality issue, it still makes no sense that they'd destroy the lure and turn them into crap. Why not just keep producing the same lures for the remainder of the agreement? Maybe it's like Chuck above said, the new ones are probably cheaper to produce and they can make a bigger profit on it.

[eyegetit]

I think it's exactly what others have said. Why make a durable product that gets reused time and time again when you can produce a cheap plastic imitation for half the cost and pass it off to us hayseeds as "just as good as the original"? Look around. It's everywhere.

I hate to stray too far off topic...But here in Ohio we have at least one franchise drugstore (CVS, Rite Aid, Walgreens, etc.) on every corner. I've seen as many as three at one intersection. They rape the landscape, erect their stores across from each other, after a few years the store is declared unprofitable (go figure?), the store sits vacant where we once had trees, fields and ponds, the franchise writes it off as a business loss and builds new stores somewhere else. The point I'm trying to make here is to illustrate the similarities between what Rapala is doing and what is going on around us every day.

[Hooky]

I just bought about $50 worth of these new thunderstick jrs. Do you guys suggest I return them. I had the impression they had the same action as the old ones. Thank-you

[crash]

I have a few of em, will they work? Yeah I guess, the pikeral and bass like em...but its NOT an old style, you'll see.

If I wasn't here, I'd be fishn.

[CarpetBagger]

Glad i still have a bunch of old ones and Dicks here in Pittsburgh, PA was running a sale on the older ones so a bought a few more. I dont like the new design/colors/anything i think it stinks that Rapala ruined one of the best lures around. Well they ruined more than 1 they messed up the thundersticks too (and i have about 40 of the older ones thank god).

I troll the tots in pymatuning before we move on up to erie now when i go to buy an older Tot color i probaly will have a ##### of a time finding it. Rapala will definatly take a hit from the people who liked the older version better.

CB

[Todd_NE]

Opinions:

1) The old and new Storms are different. Personally, the new Jr. T-stick has done as well as the older style in the little I use either. But why ruin a good thing?

2) They should NOT be marketed as the same, they AREN'T (Tstick, HotnTot).

3) http://www.normark.com/investor/key_IDX.html
Link to Normark's key stat's - they are growing unbelievably folks. You Wall Street analysts can tell us more.

4) Where were Storm's Owners in all of this? They had the control of the company. No one forced them to sell to Normark. No one seems upset at them?

5) I too find Normark incredibly arrogant in the manner they've done business, particularly what products are in what market. It's almost like they want you to be ticked or left wanting, that's plain weird.

6) They are bigger than you think. I didn't even know they owned Gamakatsu until I opened a box of Gam's in a foreign country last year and saw a Normark label too.

7) If you didn't like what "they" did to some lures, try to find a ThinFin. I liked it on some lakes.

8) They are jumping into line, rods, etc. Apparently they are trying to get a more vertical integration.

9) Normark is a publicly traded company, just buy all the stock and do what you want to. I don't have the $$$ or time.

10) If you mess with the original Shad Rap, god help you.

Todd

[charlie909]

It dosen't pay to complain to them,I tried to send them an E Mail got no response.My answer to them is keep your lures,my money spends anywhere.I do just as well on crawler harnesses anyway.I would rather deal with a company that listens to fishermens suggestions,and not one that says heres what we make now,take it or leave it.
I really feel sorry for the tackle shops that ordered a large suppy of these,can you imagine how many little bait shops are going to get stuck with these because they cant sell them.These are the people I really feel sorry for,the little mom and pa shops that will have paid hundreds of dollars for them and now find out nobody wants them.

Last year it was no water,we got thru that ,we will get thru this also.
Chuck

[tkpolasek4]

I will be more then happy to take those old hot-n-tots off your hand when and if you decide to dump them, but make sure you give the new ones a good try before you dump them. The new ones seem to a dive a little deeper then the old ones, but the action in my opnion isn't the same. I will just keep on tuning and keep on cathching with my old ones.

[Backwater Eddy]

YA! There went another good lure down the tube!

The Thin-Fin original and the rattling Thin-Fins are another deal that gets me too Todd. I have grabbed up what I can for use on prairie lakes, ponds, and rivers that they work so well on. They were a lure that I found to be deadly on boards in very shallow water, straight line trolling, or casting, on slow flowing rivers.

Not just us walleye nuts will miss the Thin-Fins either. I wonder how many bass guys had a cow over them going off the market?

Another unique lure design that fit in were others didn't, gone, Poof.

;(

Backwater Eddy ~ ~><sUMo> ~ ><>

http://home.talkcity.com/ResortRd/backwtr1/index.html

[Walleye Express]

Hey Guys.
I wonder what impact (if any) all these posts about our feelings on this matter would have if we sent them all to the pee-brains at Normark? Like I said before, you know the immediate circle, or anybody not wanting to rock the company boat, wouldn't/hasn't said crap about the change. Anybody know how to speak sweedish? Ya, Sven, Oli, speak up. Capt: Dan.

[SUPERTROLLER]

Since I don't own any of the new imitation Hot-n-tots with the plastic lip this is just what I've heard. I was at a seminar given by Keith Kavajecz and he said they run a little more shallow than the metal lipped models. Does anyone know for sure (thru side-by-side tests?) what the facts are? Which ones run deeper? It would be good for everyone to know this.

[OOC]

I was given this information by Ed at Tews Two Bait and Tackle in Oshkosh.Ed has sold a lot of Storm Baits over the years and has had plenty of deallings with Storm.The molds that produced the t-sticks and tots were shot and needed re-worked.A business decission had to be made;Re-invest or sell?Given this is the case,it explains a lot.

[PWT- FISHERMAN]

RUMOR !! HAS IT GARY GRAY WILL BE TAKING OVER THE PRODUCTION OF STORM THUNDER STICKS NEXT YEAR UNDER HIS OWN NAME. AND HE WILL HAVE ALL THE OLD COLORS.SO LETS SEE IF WE CAN GET GARY TO COMMENT ON IT.HOW ABOUT IT GARY.

[Kevin/CO]

Although I understand taht a company has to maintain its profit ratio to satisfy its investors and stay in buisness. I wouldn't be surprised if Storm had little reserve because of maintaining a small profit margin when pricing. What I would be surprised is that Storm would have sold its company instead of researching and increasing its prices to raise funds to pay for the remachining of the molds. Honestly can we as members of the fishing community say we would refuse to pay say a dollar more per bait to help a company that provided such a great product and was so loyal to fishermen? Surely a years worth of sales with the price increased would have atleast begun to pay for the work needed to retool the molds. Hindsight is 20/20.

[Walleye Express]

OOC.
Yup, that explains a lot alright. One bad descision compounded by yet another. Capt: Dan.

[Gary Gray]

I must have missed this post,because someone emailed me to let me know what was here.

No, I am no longer with Storm. I got let go from Storm last Jan(2001), when Mark Fisher took over that dept. He told me, " If you ever get back in the Winner's circle, Normark, might reconsider a contract. Well, after 2001 season, he was eating his words, and I no longer want to be with them. I have since signed on with Renosky Lure's, and have designed a deep diver series, off the existing shallow series that Renosky had. The 3 1/2 inch, when done sometime this month,(April) will be a stand-in for the Dj. This is my hope, as Renosky, already had the body, just had to redesign the lips, and now that is done. Renosky Lures, has had a open ear to my thoughts, and is willing to go the extra mile to get them right. They already have some Great colors, and we are adding the FireGlow to that series. I happened upon these lures at Dunkirk,NY, and they worked for me as well as a lot of other guys over there. I had never seen them before that, but I will see a lot of them in the future.

So, after all that, No, I am not re-inventing the Storm line, just going to make a Great Lure Dive Deeper! With this in mind, anyone who try's them, please let me know, both the good, and the bad. It will be the only way to make them better. As far as colors, drop me a email, I will be sure to pass it along to the right person. If you have a color spectrum picture of and idea, Jpeg me a copy, and again, I will get it to the right person.

Hope this clears the air,

Gary Gray

PS: I had a Great time working with John, Bill, and Gary Storm for 10 yrs, too bad a company came along, and ruined a great lure!

[bucko]

just start sending e-mail to normark/rapala telling what you think about the change with storm lures . they are steelhead fishman that used the tots , not happy .normark will be dropping more of there lure line soon . you have 3 lure and take 2 away you end up with 1 rapala . out to help the fishman think about it

[Walleye Express]

Bucko.
You are dead on about the steelhead boys being upset. In my 15 years of guiding on the Pere Marquette and Big Manistte, the Tot played a big role. My biggest producer for Steelhead though was the 109 Wiggle Wart. For Kings the 1/2 ounce version of the Tot. Casting T stick Jr's the last 6 years has been the ticket whenever I'm not drop back fishing. Now those colors and designs are gone as well. Lot's of guys use the Tot in place of the Jet Ski planners to get chunk spawn down in the Kings face on the rivers. That 5 foot diver isn't going to replace it. But theres no sense in pissing off just one group of fishermen hey? Capt: Dan. www.walleye-express.com

[Bob G2]

Dan is sure right on this one. That being said, I stocked up on the prized 1/2 chartreuse/silvers. It'll be interesting to run the old tots vs the "new and improved" c/s tots next fall. Bets anyone?