Wind power to run your walleye boat???

[REW]

I listened to an interesting lecture the other day.
With the forcasted elimination of all fossile fuels in the next few hundred years, we will be using something different to power - transportation devices.
The lecture indicated - that the states of North Dakota, Kansas, and Texas - contain enough "wind power" to power the entire USA forever.

The thing that needs to be developed is a "bottling" technique for the wind. It is here now in the form of hydrogen fuel cells. Basically, the wind generators - generate electricity. The electricity - is used to separate hydrogen from water. The hydrogen is then pressurized and is sent around the country in the current petroleum pipe lines.

Today, Shell petroleum is building a hydrogen fueling station in the capitol of Iceland. That city has purchased a fleet of city buses and taxis that go on line this summer. It will be the first city wide use of hydrogen as a fuel source for internal combustion engines.

So, in the future, as we go across Lake Erie, or Mille Lacs - our outboards or inboards of the future could very well be running on hydrogen, that was generated from wind that was "harvested" on the plains of North Dakota, or Kansas.

Interesting listening.

In the same vein - the water table of China is dropping 5 feet a year. How long will it be before the shortage of the world - is not petroleum - but WATER.

As you saw on the news yesterday - the state of New York has declared a drought emergency - and there will be no car - or BOAT washing after the first of April in the state of New York.

Think spring - and lets go fish.

REW

[sgtski]

Interesting topic, REW,
I've been hearing about hydrogen power for a few years now, and have always been optomistic about it's potential. Nice thought - using water for fuel, with the only byproduct - oxygen.

As for the water shortages, I agree it could be serious. Certainly, some western states are facing water shortages with recent population increases. More and more people sticking straws (wells) in the ground and the aquifers are shrinking. Yet it looks like it's nearly impossible to build any more large dams for storage.

[REW]

The problem with building more dams - is that there isn't water to capture.

Look at the colorado - the colorado - is a empty mud line - by the time it gets to mexico. Think about how we have taken all of the water - that used to get to Mexico - and help those folks. Now, as the population of Nevada and Ca. increases - that mud line of the colorado is going to start moving north. i.e. the spigot - so to speak is going to get emptied further upstream.

Look at the sections of southern ca. that can no longer be irrigated - because they have no accessable water -

If one of the ideas come to for - we will be mining the poles for ice and getting the fresh water from the ice melt of these bergs. Scary thought.

Take care --

Lets see - how many walleye can we raise on one ice burgs worth of water???

REW

[Cangl]

Rest easy fellow we are further ahead then most countries, with tecnology and common sense. Look out your window and see a tree? It is taking CO and nutrients and providing oxygen and shade, and slowing erosion. In a lot of countries you wouldn't see a tree in sight. It has been burnt for fuel or used for housing. That used to be one of the first sign's of "ecological" troubles for thousands of years, and in the balancing world this eliminated people through lack of resources. The problem is still there but as fisherman we all know that the overall answer will be conservation and consideration with a fine dose of freedom. Elixir of America.

[River_eye]

A lot of people here in Canada are against the bulk export of water to the states, as am I. But, it seems like it will happen at the current rate. All you guys that won't live to see 2050 should maybe consider yourselves lucky.

[River_eye]

Hmm, so when all those other countries cut down their trees, and we still have lots, how are we going to put up a wall and stop our oxygen from floating over there?

Actually, most oxygen producing, CO2 rainforests are on the other side of the earth.

If it's one person on this planets problem, it's everyone's problem.

[Tom]

where i live its about 60 / 40 in favor of wells so what is the latest bright idea from the DEP they want to put meters at the houses that rely on the wells and start charging for the water, this had to happen sooner or later but i still don,t beleive they want to charge for well water.





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[RickK]

There is probably a lot that could be done.In Nat. Geo. Mag. it said that based on one model that worked in a small scale, they projected that 6-7 square miles of Az. dessert could power the US if they could transfer the power w/o loss as in useing superconductors to greatly reduce line loss. I also read not long ago that Saudi Arabia spends considerably more on solar energy research than we do. I think the various fuel cells will be a great source in a few years.As far as oil, another Nat.Geo. article cited that by current comsumption, all the cheap oil will be pumped from the ground in 20 years. There will still be a lot of very heavy but very expensive to pump/process hydrocarbons in the ground. Think about home heating,..we have to do much soon.

[reddog]

While recycling is great, I oftern wonder about how many millions of gallons of clean, clear, drinkable water gets run down the drain after being used to rinse out recyclables? If sure seems like a waste of good water to me.

[Water Dog]

It is depressing to read the gloom and doom (EXPERTS) in the press .

To bad so sad that MOST is all anti-capitalism bull-hocky , hidden in a socialist agenda .

When I was in school all the talk by the (people in the know ) experts was the coming ice age by 2010 .

Now it is Global Warming . Ya Right !

To bad old mother Earth has her own schedule .
She , as do the planets , have their own ebb and flow much longer than the 100 years we can expect to be here . It is only natural for water levels and temps to cycle . Everything else ebbs and flows !

To get caught up in the notion , that the human race can somehow destroy the Mother Earth , in a short time frame , is the height of arrogance by man !

There is more oil beneath the Gulf of Mexico than all the other oil resources in the world as reported by the head of British Petroleum .

20 percent of ALL the worlds freshwater in located where ?

THE GREAT LAKES !

Enjoy Gods gift to us ; the Earth will substain us for a long time .

[Water Dog]

Having been to the other side of the Earth . (And most everywhere else as well)
Your tree / CO2 producing rainforest statement is the product of a poor education .
Demand your money back !

[a good question]

Your toilet is also clean drinkable water, till it hits the tank. Why wash out recyclables in the first place? I don't. I pay for that water.

[Brushpile]

There is a lot of talk about over population also, but if you gave every one in the world 3 foot by 3 foot--yes one square yard you could fit the entire population of the world inside Cherry county in Nebraska.

get a map

do the math

Food for thought

[River_eye]

Tell me, where is most of the earth's O2/CO2 cycled?

[River_eye]

Overpopulation has nothing to do with where to put people, it has to do with having enough food and drinkable water for those people.

[River_eye]

Where does your high quality environmental education come from?

[Water treatment guy]

The recycling concept is that it takes less resources than starting from scratch. The water used in the manufacturing process, obtaining raw material, creating the needed electricity vs recycling. Amt. of pollution created and landfill space are also considerations. If it's cheaper to recycle than start with raw materials, recycling is likely conserving water.

Of course the environmentalists aren't paying your elect or water bill.

[REW]

Eric,
From my former home in Montana - I look at the water that is coming down from some of the norhtern rivers out of canada. The canadians are beginning to claim their share of the water - out of many of these rivers, which has always been your right - but is now being exercised.

Many places in northern Montana - due to 5 years of drought, and the rightful withdrawal of canadian water - before it gets to the US - has caused many farmers who irrigate - to temporarily close up shop.

I was just checking the site for Walleyes unlimited - and the tournament that is scheduled for Fresno - reservior - in may or early june -- right now, fresno is at a near all time low for this time of the year - due to the low flow rate of the Milk river. It is likely that the tournament will be moved to Tiber - where the Mirias has had better flowage.

Take care
REW

[River_eye]

I was unaware of that. I guess they're holding it back with a dam, do you know what they're doing with it? Hydro power?

Maybe the people in N Dakota/Minnesota should start holding back the Red, :-) we wish! Actually, N Dakota people want to divert excess water from Devils lake into the Red, which we don't want.

There will always be fueds over water as long as there are borders. They seem to be getting worse though.

[jim c]

4/5 of the world is covered in water,deep too,and we have nt loss any of it yet(where could it go?)this must be the biggest co2/o2 machine going. the only problem is distribution which does vary with drastic results.Like beer,water is only rented..jim c

[jim c again]

now you got me thinking,and that always a bad sign.O.K. now hear goes:::"we" dont lose water from planet earth because...its too heavy even water vapor ahemmmm but the only element we do lose is hydrogen because ....it is light enough and will drift up in to the upper atmosphere and can be lost in to outerspace.This has not happened because....we havent made alot of hydrogen yet but if we start mass producing it to be used as a world wide fuel sorce then.........HOLY $HIT... jim c

[Rick C]

Sounds like it was not from a bias ,one world order, tree hugger left wing professor. There are always two sides to the truth, I think it lies right in the middle of you two. You just need to open your eyes and accept that your professors and your possibly bias books could be teaching you un truths and you are to close minded to see it. Books are written by people. with all their flaws and without the other side to question "their" facts you must always keep your mind open that they might be bending it their way.

[RickK]

you won't lose much H to outer space. It does have mass and it just doesn't float away. Most of it will convert into water after combining with O. and no, we won't get any more water from it.

[RickK]

I'm going to guess that God isn't smiling about what we are doing to the planet. I've seen big changes in my lifetime that I'm not happy or proud about. Sure you can get a few scientists that will say there is no global warming, and you can still get a few that will say smoking doesn't harm anyone and nuclear power is safe and clean, but most of these will have some connection in those industries to do so. Anyone that looks at world average temps since 1850 (the end of the mini "ice age") and the begining of big industrialization and watch the temps rise and rise,and it parallels incredibly to what computer projections says it would with the same rise in world CO2. You'd have to be pretty bad in math to ingnore it. Have we had big fluctuations in the past? Sure and sometime for the same reasons, and sometime for other reasons. The Big volcano Tambora effected the plant for a few years and caused snow to fall in most of North Amercia in July. NASA has come very close to guessing the temp on Mars based on the CO2 level before it sent sensors down to the surface.I know scientists that work in these areas and you can't label them, most of them care less about politics. One real expert, Charles Shaw said recently that he can't think of one scientist in this area that is respected in the scientific community that doesn't believe that we are effecting an increase in world temperatures,..sorry, but since I know him to be as unbiased as anyone I have ever met I'll believe him.

[God]

Do you think God is really concerned about that when there is psycho Arabs walking into buildings strapped with a bomb and proceed to blow the ##### out of innocent people? Come on here guys, this is very petty stuff compared to the real problems on earth.

[Hawgeye]

My only disagreement is that we had such crude means of measuring anything up until about 100 years ago that how can we accurately predict that WE are causing this change. I think we need to study and make adjustments to our man made environments as we better understand how we are affecting mother earth. I think there is way too much knee jerk reactions to all of this. Technology will evolve to cleaner, safer, better...we have 4-strokes and FIcht and Optimax. We have solar powered battery chargers. We have wind powered electric generation right now right here where I live in North Dakota. This technology takes time. Don't you think that wind power is viable since it is a unlimited resource?

Wind power works great for supplying electrical power via wires, the next task will be to improve portable power. We are on the way to fixing these problems. It will take a lot longer to destroy this wonderful earth than it will to come up with new solutions.

[flyman]

You may already know this, but global warming could lead to ice age like conditions in some parts of the world. It has in the past, due to changes in ocean currents created most likely by increases in fresh water flow into the ocean. The changes also happened in just a few years. Most of these occurred while previous ice ages were in retreat (that and inland seas the source of the fresh water). While we are not in the same situation (a retreating ice age), "global warming" is known to increase the rate of flow of freshwater into the oceans (melting glaciers, some other mechanisms). However, not even the true experts know at what threshold the ocean currents change, or if the added fresh water from co2 and warming brings us anywhere close to them. Also, current changes brought about by warming temps. in an already warm world may (or may not) be less dramatic than those that occured when currents changed in a colder world. Interesting (at least to me) stuff I thought I'd share. Basically, we've still got a lot to learn. When possible, I'd like to see us err on the safe side. My $.02.

[MIke2]

In the state of Wisconsin we have a mandatory recycling law. In the county in which I live we pay $17 a ton to send garbage to the landfill. We pay $47 a ton to send recyclables to the recycling center. Since the recycling center has no market for most of their stuff, they get it in and send it to the landfill. It costs our county over a million dollars a year to send stuff to the recycling center, instead of the landfill and it ends up in the landfill anyway. But conservation minded Wisconsin still forces mandatory recycling without a market for the recyclables and without paying for it. This is called an unfunded mandate.

State government gone amuck.

Mike

[gaspergoo]

RE:wind power
I saw a program on NOVA(not exactly a right-wing program)that stated, in order for wind power to generate enough for the US demand, every tillable acre would have to have a windmill on it. The real answer is nukes! Produce the electricity to make H2, bury the waste in the desert. Like Sam Kinnison said in response to the African famines of the 80's,
"Don't send them food, send them U-hauls, you live in a desert. Nothing grows in sand! We have deserts in America but we don't live in them!!!"

[Gumbo]

By the title of REW's post I envisioned fishing boats with masts, a furling genoa, and a main sail. Personally, I love sail and have a Catalina 27 at the Great Salt Lake. I took it out just last week, but didn't get a single bite!

I must go down to the seas again,
to the lonely sea and the sky.
And all I ask is a tall ship
and a star to steer her by...

[Nautical Wheeler]

If we could harness all the "wind" generated on this website, we could all power our boats. LOL!

[ufda]

Let me first of all state that I am both a hunter and a fisherman. And,,, I am not a bible thumper (though I have nothing against those that are). I am just relaying the following to make a point at the end. Now that said I will quote an old saying; "God created the world and it was good. Then God created the seas and it was good. And He created the fishes and the birds and it was good. And he created mankind and it was good. Then man killed off the birds and and it was bad. And he poluted the waters and killed off the fishes and it was bad. And he poluted the earth and killed off man, and it was good!"
The point being that we don't have to destroy mother nature and the Earth, only mankind. So the idea that nature always replenishes herself and it is arrogant to think that we can destroy her, although that may be true, misses the point if we are not here.
And yes, I am a conservationist (not an environmentalist wacko, but one who thinks we have some responsibility to future generations and therefore should use the resources wisely).

[Water Dog]

This whole discussion , reminds me of the African story of the fleas on the pack of elephants .

Space prohibits me from telling the whole story , but the gist of it is , fleas live for only a short time compared to the elephant family . They torment the elephants unmercifully for the short while they exist!

After feading they fall off to mate and lay eggs , for their last few hours before they die , they try to discribe what it was , they lived on .

Meanwill the elephants move on , no worse for all the fleas trouble and ainst .

The earth is , and will be , a renewable resouce long after we are gone .

That does not mean we should squander the bounty that God has given us .

Nor is that license to poison , this gift .

Sportsmen are the true conservationists , and defenders of the environment .

[ufda]

That's true, but there are overreactions there also. In the 60's (which many of you can't remember as you weren't there and I am having trouble remembering because I was) there was a sociologist (whose name excapes me) that wrote a book called "The Population Bomb" in which he stated (and was taken very seriously) that by 1980 the population of the world would have expanded so much that it could not be supported with food and there would be wholesale famines around the earth. Now, there are famines, but they are isolated. For the most part, mankind has found ways of increasing production and we feed, at least at the subsistence level, most of the earth. The point being that mankind is a very complex inventive creature with a strong sense of survival. Don't sell us short.
And from what I know of them, Texans could supply all the wind power necessary for.......oh, you said Texas not Texans. :-)

[River_eye]

I listen to all opinions on the issue, and make up my own mind. What I'm going on is the fact that our landfills are filling up fast, our air quality is low in big cities and we are having lots of water quality issues.

You can't dispute that this is because of humans. Our natural areas are also growing smaller. Overall, the quality of our environment is degrading.

You group me in a category that I'm not in. I'm not worried about humans destroying the planet, I know it has natural cycles, and even if we destroy ourselves, the planet will rebound with more life, but garbage buildup and resource depletion are not natural cycles.

I'm worried about the quality of life for humans on this planet in the future, and their ability to catch and eat walleyes out of clean lakes, that's it.

I'm going away for the weekend, so I can't continue this discussion, but please don't start calling me names and stereotype everyone who cares about our environment and place them into the same category.

[River_eye]

The population explosion is happening in the third world countries. It's not evident where we live, because in N. America, the population is staying about the same. There will always be enough food to feed us and our kids.

You just have to decide whether you care about the billions starving in third world countries, and the fact that it's getting worse at an exponential growth rate. So far, most of us have decided that we don't care.

[Otter]

I have gone out with more fisherpeople than I can remember who could power a boat with wind (their own).

[ufda]

I'm sorry to disagree with you and hope to do so without being an "ugly American", but two things:
A.) my message above said that by 1980 there would be wholesale famine and,
B.) we do care. As you are aware, I am sure, those of us on the northern part of this continent contribute and send a great deal of support to the rest of the world, so saying "we don't care" makes me a little angry. Now if you said we don't care enough, how does one measure enough?
Peace neighbor,

[Red Ruffandsore]

Lot's of great comments, information and insight here on this string.

But it all means nothing because the Borg is coming, and when they get here we will all be assimilated quicker than schitt through a goose.

I hear tell they are allergic to fish and afraid of water...wait a minute...I'm not giving away my plan. "Honey! I have to go up to the lake this weekend to practice the drills" "Be back on Sunday night" "Them Borg won't get us...you'll see"


Stay off the pipe...and don't forget to wipe.

Red

[Ristorapper]

It's good to know that they will be producing that hydrogen in my own back yard(ND). But hate to say we have a refinery right here on the river and gas is as high or higher here in Bismarck as anywhere, so may not be good news afterall!!

BW(ND)

[Water Dog]

The famine and sufferering in the third world countrys is caused by Socialism and a lack of Capitalism . Not the end of the Earth .

The Environmental movement is the new home of a Socialist , anti-capitalist group whose goal is simple .

The end of capitalism , and power / wealth for them .

Peta and their ilk , never saves any animals or resources . It exists only to profit the few who head these (non-profit ?) organizations and give moneys to domestic terrorist groups like the Earth Liberation Front . (As reported by Fox News )

Wake Up And Smell The Coffee !

[MIke2]

Resistance is futile

[KevinA]

The Population Bomb....Paul Ehrlich was the author, he was the best known neo-malthusian in the last 40-50 years. Back up another century and a half in the UK and you find a similar book, Essay on Population, written by Thomas Malthus...it was the first book written about man outstripping their resources..then came the Green Revolution and the world told the Malthusians..."nevermind".

I remember odd things occasionally...I even remember the 60's, more or less, though 1969 is pretty much a blur.

Looking for a good older book to read? Try Small is Beautiful: Economics As If People Mattered by E.F. Schumacher

[Nuker]

I'm tired of Arabs, Palestinians, Bin Laden, Muslims, El Queda interrupting my ball games every day with the same bad news. These people hate us and are gunning for us and would kill us given the chance. We should do a preemptive strike and get rid of the whole works.

[Smelly gas]

I work in a town that has an ethanol plant in it. To my limited understanding, they make gas out of corn? Would this work to power your boats? Burns clean too? Hummmmmm.....

Use ethanol to go fishing....

catch fish and dump remains on field to grow corn....

take corn to ethanol plant to make gas to go fishing....

sounds like a winner!!


Only people who get hurt is those who live by the stink (stale beer smell). Alas, I reminise to college parties and "the day after"....



PLEASE GOD, MAKE THE ICE THAW!!!!!!

[Silver/MI]

Now that was funny!

[Chris]

I KNEW IT! Its the Rush ski's Its the Rush ski's!!!! Hold on world! Capitalism to save the world and to cure all ills!

[Water Dog]

China , Russia , India , Thailand , Vietnam , Most of Africa , Pakistan ,Iran , Iraq , etc ........

Lets see , despoiled environment , Most of the people too poor to own anything , much less a walleye boat . Some sold into slavery .

Two chances to better themselves ; SLIM AND NONE!

Or places where the people are free to enjoy capitalism ???????

I think we don't too bad in North America .
And that includes our brothers in Canada .

[Chris]

yah well,..After traveling to some of those countries I'm not so sure that other populated 3rd world nations do much better under capitalism. In poor countries often a few capitalists gain control and strip off resources and pay the people enough just not to starve,... health care, well,they are on their own, forget about ever retiring. If you have an accident and crush your hand or loose a few fingers for instance,you have the great career of begging for as long as you can get to the street,.as no capitalist in these countries will hire you as you will be a bit slower to work than the next guy,.although begging doesn't work too well,..no one has any excess money to give you ,..yea capitalism works really well in these countries,..it looks strangely like the way communism ends up working,..no one does well and a few people get rich,..and both places are dirty and the resorces raped. As a long time somewhat small capitalist myself (owning 2 1/2 bussinesses 128 current employees ) you cite capitalism HERE? (and in Canada?) Gee, I live near the border and its a long way from my section of the US border and a big city,..lots of little towns,..no industry other than logging,papermills,..I always wondered how most of the people lived in these towns,.I found out and was amazed at how many live on the state's welfare system. We have lots of poor people here too that will never by a Walleye boat,.they also live on the socialistic part of our society,..do they have the "opportunity?" to get out of this loop? Perhaps,..perhaps not in many cases,(having been dirt poor at one time myself)..but whats this capitalism we are supposed to be living under? I'd like to know (for sure) if you reject HMO health insurance,..bravo if you do,..what about not accepting social security benefits?,..not only at retirement age but if you get totally disabled. I hope you have saved up enough money that you never have to worry about paying rent (or keeping up with mort. or property taxes) or ever have to need food stamps. I can't imagine that I would need these things,.I don't really think about needing any type of welfare.I have a fair amt of money right now. I see that Dudley Moore died poor,..perhaps it was his fault, but things happen,..health and divorce wast cited in doing it to him,..but really smart guys like Thomas Jefferson also died in great debt,.again things always don't go your way,..nice to know that if you face on your flat on your face,..MAYBE you won't totally be living in a dumpster,.. at least for a while. Most people here don't think about if they get into a serious accident.that somehow they will be taken care of,..maybe not the best,.but someone will pull them out of their car and take then to some health care facility and work on their ills,..hey they will feed them as well. Most big so called capitalistic companies certainly take advantage of many socialistic programs and grants (so a good capitalist never turns down a profitable thing eh?) anyway I hope you boycott these phonies! Opps nothing now to buy? Umm seems both systems don't work in its pure state.Gotta go,..my capitalistic side is called to go to work to provide for a lot of people (besides my employees that I exploit) Wait,..the people I do provide for,..those socialists!

[Water Dog]

I enjoy your passion , but can not see where you are going with this discussion .
Why do you think so many people risk life and limb to come to North America ?

#1 A legal system baised on the the 10 commandments .
(Any legal system with out a moral background will always be only for the ones in power)

#2 America is a representative republic , the people get to elect our leaders . (If they screw up , we get to elect someone else) Without question , North America has a higher living standard for more people , with more opportunity , and a cleaner environment compared to the socialist countrys our size .

#3 Capitalism in a free society , beats out socialism in a repressive society every time . (Do you want to be a free man or a slave?)

Freedom , it's a good thing !

Not opinion , just the facts !

[Al]

The generation part is the problem. Wind power gen is very very inefficient. An example I read is that to have the same output as one of those 1100KW peak plants, you'd need a field of windmills the size of NewHampshire, and it still might not do it.

Hydrogen can be produced many ways, and the specialty gas companies do it regularly. Liquid and gas forms are used in process plants eveyr day. Companies like Air Liquide and BOC do this all of the time.

[RickK]

Al,I think you might be meaning other numbers,..not 1100KW.
Anyway in some parts point of generation can help a lot,..if you want to live with a windmill is another thing,..a friend not far from here has a mostly electric home,..he DOES live on a small hill,..he has made two wind generators from spare parts,..each turns 5,500 watts in a med wind,..which he often has there,..when he has excess power , instead of batteries his electric meter runs backward (specail meter by the power company that runs half as fast backward than forward,..and self disconnects from the grid if there is a power outage to protect anyone working on the lines.) most months his bills are under 30 bucks and thats with min. service meter charge,(I think thats about 20.00 here)..he has 2 teens and one preteen and cooks and has Hw. If I'm not mistaken says most of his heat too,..The fact that it runs all night many nights helps rack up the numbers,..only the excess power that they don't need at the time will run the meter backward,..

[Water Dog]

Before the industrial revolution , it was wind that powered the wind mills and pumps to modernize farming .

The industrial revolution started with steam power and huge systems of belts to run the tools in the shops .

Fishing and exploration of the world started with wind power and oars .

Who knows ? What comes around , goes around .

[River_eye]

I won't tie your opinion to your nationality. The message I get from you is that you're eagerly telling me where science has screwed up in the past and using it as a basis not to trust current science.

If they were right all the time, they wouldn't be human, but our world has been built on science, to be suspicious of it, is to not know about it. Although, everybody is entitled to their opinion I guess.

When I said that we don't care, I meant we don't care enough to sacrafice a some of our luxuries so they can have basic supplies and clean water.

[River_eye]

You have some twisted ideas in that head of yours. Can't really comment on anything you say, cause it's all just self-serving BS.

[River_eye]

It's hard for some people to understand that, even though it makes perfect sense.

We don't know for sure what's going to happen, but we have a good idea . That's even better reason to play it safe.

Fools rush in.

[River_eye]

Very true, life on earth will go on, we just have to decide whether we want to be part of it or not.

[River_eye]

Oh wise man, Please tell me where you get these ideas? Do you have any background knowledge? Sounds like you're spewing off these revelations about life and the world, but you aren't really backing any of it up.

[Water Dog]

So whats wrong with freedom ?

[Water Dog]

Your temper is good . I do not mind a little temper .
That means you have passion for what you believe .

[Al]

Sorry it was MW. 1100 MW.

[River_eye]

I know what I believe, but I also like to learn from others, if they have good information.

I'm requesting where your knowledge comes from, so I don't have to chalk you up with all the other cranks of the world, I'd rather learn somthing than do that.

You seem to have everything all cut and dried, but the world isn't and never will be like that.

[Herbert Andrewartha]

N/T = r(K-N/K)N

[Water Dog]

I stand by everything I have stated on these boards .
If you wish to disagree , by all means offer some facts .
If you take the time to read , you will see I offer facts that have been reported . Example : Fox News reported that PETA gives money to the domestic terrorist group WLF and others . WLF BRAGS ABOUT THEIR TERRORIST ACTIONS ON THEIR WEB SITE .
The head of British Petoleam reported that there are more oil reserves in the Gulf of Mexico than what now exists in the rest of the world .
There is more growing timber , deer , turkey ,salmon , and Walleye now in the Americas , than 100 years ago . Check it out !
Lake Erie and Lake Michigan were once given up as dead to fisherman .
You know what Rivereye old buddy ? They are now WORLD CLASS fishing and tourist waters . Because sportsmen demanded they be so !
And that did not happen with your low key , do nothing , the world is going to heck in a hand basket , shut up and fish attitude !
You comment about building walls to keep in the 02 , shows me you have not looked at a globe . 4/5 of the world is covered in water .
Do you question my facts on that ?
Can you site ANY socialist goverment country the size of us , that has a cleaner environment that North American ? Can you argue with me that the suffering and famine in the third world countrys is Not caused by their socialist , repressive , anti-capitalist , depraved goverments ?
We as Sportsmen have more power than you give us credit for .
ENUF SAID !
Live Free or die a slave !

[Water Dog]

You can not argue with the the truth or sucess !
Sounds like the green eyed jealousy monster from old river-eye !

[Water Dog]

www.animalliberationfront.com/ is off line as is the Saints Alive web pages . These were recruiting / report pages and how to manuals for domestic terrorism against us .
The heat we have given them since 9-11 has forced them to retreat for a while .
On a sad note www.earthliberationfront.com is still on line with fire as the preferred method to send their message .
Oh My !

[LakeRat]

No, they have to care first. We can send aid until we are blue in the face. We can teach them to produce food, but desert regions are a fruitless effort due to their lack of financial resources. Basically, they should get out of the desert. Also, they should quit reproducing like rabbits and figure out that the desert is not a place to bring up a child. But, that is all old news. Nothing will change until they want it to change. And, most of it is "cultural" in nature. The tribes lived there for how many years and etc... When they are sick of dieing, they will move. The problem is that they keep going back. YOU CAN LEAD A HORSE TO WATER.....