I still Like Len Hartman - Long Post

[Snyder]

I have been off here for a while, got lots of mail yesterday, saying my name was on the other board. Sure enough, Cindy posted some kind words. And more or less told everyone what I am doing.

In the past year, I have been sorting my fishing "Stuff", and I have piles of "Len Hartman" hours of tape, notes, photos.

Many of you only know Len (or myself) through the press, posting, or worse what people are saying.

I must tell you, I still like Len, he talked fishing deep and fast, when most muskie fisheremn were rowing the edges of the lake casting the weeds. And he knew, the guy that got to spend the most time on the water usually wins the honors. (that was my case on Green Lake Walleyes)

Len and Bill Binkleman taught me, above everything else, keep your eye on the the food sources. Lake Mich. fishing proved them both so right. Structure is great, but empty stucture attracts nothing, no matter how great it looks on paper or on your recorder.

One of the last chats I had with, Buck Perry, he smiled, when I questioned all of the things the early writers got so wrong and said. 'We put the tain on the tracks, anyone could get on it, but we couldn't pull the whole dam train alone!"

The early fishing greats, opened the doors, for us to walk through, I'm glad they did.

I still like Len, Bill, Buck, Al, Ron, Dan Gapen, Joe, Porter, Tony, Babe and more.

and Tim Manion, remember him, he launched the walleye fishing contests, from a sport show booth in Chicago and failed, Mercury Marine, picked up the pieces.

I am glad for Mercury Marine also, and hope they stay in Fond du Lac, today , when they vote !

As I have more time now, I will try to post more. I was blessed, I got to meet, talk to, fish with most of the early greats. Kind of like having Bart Starr as a friend, as a kid, or Brett, or Joe .

thanks for reading, hope I didn't bore you.

You can email me anytime or stop by, to chat.

Bill Snyder

[Snyder]

this weekend.......

my Birthday...is Labor day weekend...Len and I were sitting under a rock ledge in Eldorado Bay, on Eagle Lake....it was pouring rain.........for hours, he told me stories of his life, their life.......their catches.......I never met a man so in love with someone that was so long removed.........from his life.

I remember thinking I hope to be in love like that someday.......Len had just come through very hard times, he was living at the YMCA in Chicago....when, I invited him along to fish with us.........

I paid him to sign lures, and 500 photos of him.......later that night , after too much beer, Len..decided to sign....Every Lure in my Tackle boxes...that was Len

You would never have known, he had a tough moment in his life......he was engery , smiles and could he tell stories......

the next time we would have shore lunch........Len broke the big news.......

William....... I have to come clean with you......

.....the pouring rain today.....stirs thought of Len, shore lunches and Secrets........

[Hunter4]

Snyder,

I met Len when I was nineteen at a MI speaking engagement. I was very young and very egar to learn. I sat with him for two and half hours after he finished his talk. When we left he handed me a lure called the musky bug. I still have it and when my son asked me the other day what that lure was I told him " That lure was invented by the greatest musky fisherman I ever met". Say what you want about Len and his lying about fish weights and such. I still say even though those fish didn't weight what they were report too. They were still huge fish. Len was a nice man who made some mistakes. Thats the way I want to remember him.

[Snyder]

Seems everyone that I have met, that have met and talked to him....really liked him. The people that I have met that don't like him, have only read or been told about him. Len, wanted to fish, not be rich or famous, he wanted to fish, everyday, somewhere.
He made mistakes, I doubt that most of the pre 1980 fish records are right, and the older records all wrong, but that me, it was about bragging rights back then, like shooting a 17" buck, that becomes a 20" buck.........just bragging rights.........
....and I do think...... Len, is now fishing everyday, somewhere

[Snyder]

But he was so ahead of his time..........dicount his fish.......if you must.......but not his methods.........he caught his muskies 35 feet down.....sunsended...........he built his own lures (tools he called them) to reach that depth.........the early ones he made, painted, and signed himself...........there wasn't the baits at the time........so.........He Made them.........

and they worked......still work.....I have several hanging in my shop..the early ones.........he carved......the later ones made for him by Smity.......and some that never made it to production........because the muskie story ended before the man ran out of life........

to know Len 5 minutes........was to think you had always known him........few people are like that..........

and he gave away hours, and hours of his life for free.........and the lies that made him a name...........made him nothing........he was so poor......he lived at the YMCA when I met him..........so poor.......he was taken in, in the end........

his end was sad.......the life left his eyes long before the life left his body.........

he was a man of deep regrets, in the end.........a man , a muskie man.......few since could come close to.......you must remember..........the champs of today...have had so much help..gps, internet, maps, good line, motors...........

Len had junk........fueled by desire............

[Snyder]

I remember "finding" Len, I was in Russ Smiths Bait Shop (Smity Baits) he was painting Hartman Bugs......I said, I had ordered them once.......and never got anything. Russ said he was building them for Len, who was down on his luck living in a YMCA in Chicago.
He said you should give him a call, but he asked me what I had ordered, I said one deep diver one Bug.....Russ gave me one of each. I had met Russ through a Muskie Book, I published Vilas County Muskie Guide, Russ took and ad for his baits !

I was there to begin work with Him on an Oneida County Muskie Guide. But the talk was of Len, Russ said you should do something with Len, I think it would sell. So, I took his number and talked to him , asked about doing an interview about his life, his big fish, his Record Muskies.

A friend of mine had a video production house in Chicago, we made arrangements to do an in house , Studio interview. Len named his price, I agreed,but requested he sign 500 photos as part of the deal, to be packaged with the VHS Video. The 500 signed photos turned out to be better deal than the 500 Video Tapes, I had made.

more soon.....

[Snyder]

I wasn't going to work on this......have so many things going on, couple posts in the walleye section, my own web stuff...... but

I really do like talking about Len......

I sat up last night, watching editing Eagle Lake Ont. video, I took with Len.......we were just drifting.......his back was to me..he was casting a "Bent" spoon......as always, Len didn't like spoons the way they were, he liked light spoons he could troll or cast.....but he always bent them...

he would say..the fish here have seen this lure for 50 years.......but they have never seen one come through the water like this.........

his back was to me....... he was singing ......."Yesterday" ...a Beatles songs.....his wife enjoyed the song......and he missed her like few men , ever miss anything.....

Len singing the Beatles...... 11 at night.......better than Football......

then I got up at 3...and went out on Green lake......

thanks for the book orders.......

[Bear2]

When did Len pass?

[Snyder]

Len passed Oct. 23 1997

Green Lake Muskies

I know from what I have seen........if my boat was too small for Green Bay, or it was too far to drive.....I'd be fishing Muskie on Green Lake.......there are 50-55 inch very fat fish in there........

[GreenLaker]

No question about that! While I havn't hooked one directly, it certainly was interested in my catch this spring!

[Snyder]

Very Nice.......

did you see the bass photos I post in the General Board.."Fish Story- this morning ?"


ever read my Green lake Book ???

Bill

[GreenLaker]

Be by Friday to pick one up and sign up for he site. Look forwad to meeting you.

Chuck

[Snyder]

and added photos........

Bill

[Snyder]

Len did also, he never named it much.......he always talked about other lakes, when asked about world records, big fish. But as we spent weeks on Eagle, fishing, eating shore lunch, trolling....... he would say over and over... I love this lake........huge fish, of every type.......

But , he didn't care to share it........he, was at "work" on the lake, he thought it contained huge fish, maybe a world record. Len loved muskie fishing , Len liked trolling, it gave him time to reflect, sing, relax.....and still seek large Muskies...

for all he taught me.......I taught him.....suspended walleyes, on Eagle...... large fish, my largest 13# 6 oz, 8-12 feet down, 60 plus feet of water........he, shook his head the first evening we did it........on Eagle's Big Water......and said...why not......it's produced muskies for me......for years........

that was Len........living & learning.......

[Snyder]

had so many questions........

took a photo......

Bill

[Snyder]

Hey-

been a while ......if you're a fan of Len Hartman - found some things this week.....

one is a box of tapes - from the now defunk - Daily Planet Video editing house in Chicago - sent to me as they were cleaning racks of stored stuff....... 17 tapes labled - August 5 - 1996 - my last trip with Len on Eagle lake Ont. - they are on Sony Beta - SP , that a pro format so I need to get them bumped down...... to DVD or VHS to view them.

They are mater tapes - not edited - 17 tapes mean about 8 hours of raw footage - should be interesting to watch - I thought they gone forever when the company went under -

the other thing I found in my box of things - was the box - Len send me the signed photos in - you see his stamp on the box - his old Westchester - Il address...... plus two - New Hartman's he sent me - the box is dated - April 24 - 1992 ,

I will keep you up dated......

any thoughts - write me -

Bill Snyder

clubinvaders2@yahoo.com

added the photos to a new Album - Len Hartman - click my profile to see them....... also found my 1980 - Wisconsin- Fishing Guide License !!!!!! what a find ..... ha ha

[Viper]

Looking forward to reading about your recently discovered treasures.

Great read!!

Thank you for sharing.

Respectfully submitted-Mike

[Snyder]

I am going to post photos in my profile ; of some of the stuff......right now.......

[Snyder]

I'm sorting things

My girls say that when I die - the "Fishing Hall of Fame" should want my boxes of crap - it is a fresh water fishing history - from 1965 - 1990. I found Len's book yesterday - "Before I Forget" with George Sandell. He wrote inside the cover " Th Bill Snyder - one of Wisconsin's top muskie hunters after a big one - Good Luck - The Fishin Fool - Len Hart man - March 14 - 1992.

Right Beneath it a book by : Tom Hollatz - published by Wisconsin Sportsman Magazine - Oshkosh - inside that book - Dick Rose - of Eagle River - Walleye - Muskie Guide , friend signed his name "Yukon" Dick Rose - and drew a small photo - of himself - Dick stopped by on his way to see his Lawyer - during his times of "Record Wisconsin walleye" troubles, the 18 + pound walleye that wasn't . He said - he should be in that book - so , I guess - he put himself in it.......

Inside all the pages are signed: Ray Kennedy, Bill Gleason, Al Lindner, Porter Dean, Tony Rizzo and more....... Great book - Great men.

Then a pile of letters - notes - Al Lindner- Ron Lindner - Porter Dean - Ray Scott - Bill Binkleman - Jack Crawford - Rizzo - Smity - Hartman - Buck Perry -..........and more

Lures made - never marketed - by some of the best names in fishing - piles of them....

Photos of all of them most signed - fishing - some of them - now fishing elsewhere........

this - what is in my boxes is what fishing is about - not now many or how big.....

[Snyder]

Sitting in the lodge - at South Shore Lodge - out of the heavy rain - Len began to putter. Taking apart sever lures - putting them back together - hand winding wire , to make it all work...... Len declared , a "Len Spoon - Spinner" - for muskie ......

Hours later - testing it - proved to be somewhat less than a success - the "blade " was too heavy to turn - except at a very high speed -

Len - threw the bait - to the bottom of the boat - for next 6 days - when I was bored - I would snap it on - take a few casts - and tell him , his bait needed a bit of work ! ha ha

Len , would laugh - and change the subject -

on the last day - I took Len & the bait - up in to a bay on Eagle - loaded with small pike and caught six Northerns on it - Len , smiled and said, the bait is perfect - and laughed.......

That was Len.......

[Snyder]

Rainy days - fishing & Len , just did not mix that well........it seemed, to always be raining that week.......Len - saw the down time as time to either talk - (tell stories) or to "invent new lures" - so on this day - a broken oar piece - treble hooks - cotter pins - wire and splashes of paint - became the "next great thing" .

He lost interest in the new bait - it hung in the cabin for ten days - never made the water - think it was more to impress the lodge guests - than a fishing thing - so , I threw it in my tackle box - another - "Len" tucked away........

[Snyder]

Len -

was always working on something - I was lucky to know him......to spend time with him.........a bucktail - (6 Len Bucktails in my collection - each hand made - bad work ) one even had a Mepps - Giant Killer Blade spray painted - orange -with a gear like wire - that I can not figure out - what it was from.......but, Len - leftovers = Lures , it was his way.

He was working on: Cherrywood Chugger - I think it was a red broom stick handle - cut to length - drilled - prop in back (with Len - the prop should always be in back - how many things in nature make noise at the front end ?) ....he wasn't a deep thinker - more a reflective person - who learned from what he saw around him........the bottom was a number of "vents" "chips" meant to disrupt water - the way fins or feet would .......I must say - of all the crap - Len threw - this one had large follows on Eagle - no fish - but a couple huge follows - the type that make you sit down and go - wow....... that bait - I stole - and still have -

He told me later - his big fish on Eagle the next year - was on the - "Cherrywood Chugger"- but, not how it was reported to the local media. But with Len - what was - what was said - were often two different stories.......

[Snyder]

get back to this - I have found many pieces of the Len puzzle - including a folders of letters the last year of his life - signed copies of his book -

hours and hours of video tape - (out takes - from a video done for Musky Hunter Magazine) - there is some value in never throwing anything away - (no matter what your wife says)



Merry Christmas !!!!!!!!!!


look for new "LEN" material - Next Year ( it's only 2 weeks - ha ha)

[Snyder]

Over the weekend - someone stole - a row of - Hartman Lures from my shop - that's all they took - glad they didn't notice the box of signed photos - sitting nearby -

so , if you Suddenly see - Len Hartman lures - for sale - including 4 non production models -

would you pass the info on to me.......


thanks,

Merry Christmas

[Snyder]

as we spent weeks on Eagle together - Len began to share with me - new ideas for lures - we was working on spoons with funny bends - and top water baits , with feet - he was convinced that with modern production most of the "Great Features" of the old baits were dropped - not because they didn't add to the lures - but rather they added to the production costs of the baits.

He missed the Leather feet of ducks , mice , frogs - of years done by . And thought surface baits should more copy the actions of something panicked on the surface to get attention rather than - something just out for a swim or crossing the lake. He reasoned the one was a challenge the other easy prey - like a wounded bait fish vs. a healthy fish.

so , he drew out each night muskie lures with large legs - feet - flippers - and with water spouts we made a jerk bait the shot water into the air like a whale - when pulled hard - a bait that started as a surface bait - but slowly sank - during the retrieve - like a drowning small animal -

I'm reminded of this as I pull out the pages of Len drawings & notes.......

[Hot Runr Guy]

Over the weekend - someone stole - a row of - Hartman Lures from my shop - that's all they took - glad they didn't notice the box of signed photos - sitting nearby -

so , if you Suddenly see - Len Hartman lures - for sale - including 4 non production models -

would you pass the info on to me.......


thanks,

Merry Christmas

Like this?: http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-Vintage-Len-Hartman-Jerkbait-Musky-Muskie-/270679440496

HRG

[Snyder]

Exactly like that !!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks !