knot strength

[Kevin]

Maybe I have to much time on my hands lately,but just curious if anyone has tested their knots, lines ,and what you found? I was testing 3 different spools of line I have been using and found my knots breaking ,14 lb Vanish, I use this to tie harnesses. 14lb Silver thread, main line for trolling rods with boards. Also tried some 12lb Cabelas Pro line. I tried a palomar knot ,this is what I usually use, and a regular fishermans knot, I always wet the knots,but the line seems to keep breaking just below them. I used a digital fish scale trying to pull steady They broke around 2 to 3 lbs. under their weights. 14 lbs around 11 to12 lbs. 12 around 9 to 10 lbs. Is this common or what? I guess that one 6 or7 lber.at the boat, that would have put us in the money really is still bugging me. Thanx for any help.

[Tom G]

I religiosly use 14 vanish for Spinner harnesses all last year and alot of fish over the ten range and never had a knot break. Try lubing the line up before tightening the knot.

[Kevin]

Tom , I only really had that 1 problem on the water, was just curious if this was the right way to test my knots and line ? and also how do you lube the knot? I have a little plate of water just dip it in it then tighten. thanx again Kevin

[Bad Finger]

Knot strenth and line strenth are two different things. (had too much time on my hands too)

Take that same line and loop it over the hand scale and hold the other end in a gloved hand. I found that the line broke well over it's stated strenght many times. Yes, sometimes lower, some right on, but many times over. I did it several times and used an average break number on my tests.

Note, I tested Berkley XT 6, 10, 12 & 14.

[mac]

use spit for a lube. I've tried silicone etc, but after 24 hours they weaken the line. The palamar knot should always be stronger than the line it you are tying and snugging correctly. I test by adding weights to a bucket on one end of the line suspended from the ceiling, until something breaks.

[Honest John]

I believe that any knot will be weak spot in your line. I thought I read somewhere that the Palomar has about 75% breaking strength, so you would expect 8 pound test line to break at the Palomar knot with about 6 pounds of pull. I think that the Trilene knot claims a much higher breaking strength--something like 90%. That would mean 6 pound line would break at the Trilene knot with about 5.5 pounds of pull. Sorry, but I am just pulling these numbers out of my head. I think the Trilene packaging has the actual numbers listed.

Interesting that with Fireline, I understand they recommend that you tie only Palomars.

John

[Eyez]

The reason for the palomar only rule with superlines is because they're smoother than mono, and other knots will just slip out.


Eyez

[Mattman]

My wife gave me a book a few years ago on fishing knots. Yes, the knot is the weakest part of your line, providing there isn't any damage to any other part of your line. Heat while tying the knot is the biggest enemy of the knot. The Polomar knot is one of the knots that retains the highest percentage of the original line strength. That's the reason I learned, and used that knot. Sure is a lot easier to tie too.


Better to have and not need than to need and not have!

Matt Davis

[vetspet(ind)]

polomar knot and double clinch knot are supposed to retain about 90 % strength...all knotts reduce line strength....i had major problems with any of the co-polymer lines such as trimax and silver thread at this time of year on lake michigan ...i'm almost certain that these type lines lose their stretch in cold water...in july they do super well but i had 6 and 8 lb line break with little 1 lb coho dangling and they were brand new lines...lost 6 lures one day alone and so i did a bit of investigating and most of my references said do not use copolymer lines when the water temp is cold....i went to a 10 lb trilene xl and i do not lose lures/fish any more....that was my ticket...8 lb trimax still seemed to break when i knew it should not have...steve

[flyman]

Like many of the other posters, I use the palomar knot whenever possible.

I was at a outdoor show and the Berkley people had a knot/line testing machine set up. Properly tied, the line always broke above the labeled strength of the line (usually at least 25% above). Also, more surprisingly, (I might not remember this right) the line did not usually break at the palomar knot.

If the line is breaking just in front of the knot as you describe, it is probably being weakened by friction as you tighten the knot. Most likely, you aren't lubricating enough of the line, or the lubrication isn't "lasting" long enough. Try tightening the knot under water or in your mouth. Also, with some knots, you can tighten by pulling on the tag end. This will put the line that is drawn through the knot on the other side of the knot, where its strength doesn't matter.

[mac]

flyman is correct.

If you watch a knot break while under increasing tension, many times, there is a very minute slippage just before it breaks. This slippage under the pressure, causes the mono to heat and contribute to the weakening and therefore breakage ususally where the line enters the knot, hense the telltale curl on the end of your line.
The best way to cut down on the length of this slippage, is to tighten the knot as much as you can prior to it being stressed. You can't do this with mono in your fingers sufficiently without cutting them, therefore, use pliers to tighten the tag ends and wrap the line over a smooth object for the line end. (I put the reel end over my thigh ( with pants) and put my hemostat thru the crosslock.) (always with the lure not attached!)
If it breaks while you are doing this, get stronger line or use a different knot because unless you are a gorilla, you probably aren't using more that 4# force.
Always use lube. Spit works best and is always handy.

[Walleye Express]

Kevin.
Your knots breaking at the strengths you mentioned are (not) O.K. or common. True Story. About 8 years ago, Silver Dome boat show. A guy in the Trilene booth was showing how to tie 100% knots or what is now called a Polomar. He was challenging people to tie their own knot and beat the break strength of his. All knots were tied off the same spool of course. His polomars were breaking, often 2 pound heavier than what the pound test was. So, if your doing what you say and their breaking with that little pressure, crap can the line. Capt: Dan.