Getting Stickbaits On The Bottom?????

[Kino]

Guys I have read alot about trolling floating stickbaits on three-ways or behind bottom bouncers in river systems for sauger and walleye. With that time of the year fast approaching, which rig has served you the best? What do you think the pros and cons are of a three-way vs. a bottom bouncer is?? I intend on pulling floating raps,little rippers,thunderstick jrs. and such against the current to maybe add a few more fish in the day. Vertical jigging while "slipping" the current has always been the name of the game and I have never seen anyone pulling cranks this way and I am just trying to think outside the box.I actually tried it this summer with a bottom bounce and a 4 foot lead and stickbait and it did put some fish in the boat!!!!! I can only imagine how it will work when the water is right and the fish stack up in the fall! Thanks for reading and your replys/opinions!

[Biggs]

I think leadcore would be the way to go. The Flw championship was won pulling cranks in deep river holes using leadcore to get their cranks down deeper.

[WIMWUEN UNLOGGED]

I fish the Mississippi all year long and use all the above. I prefer leadcore where available but three way rigs come in second. I rarely use bottom bouncers because you will loose your whole rig on a snap if the bouncer gets caught up. With a three-way rig you could loose just the sinker if you rig right.

The benefits of leadcore are as follows
follows the contours well
follows the path of the boat well
one line in the water (with a leader), less items to break or snag
you can use a linecounter for an exact duplication, or count colors

Trolling stickbaits on leadcore and three way rigs is my number one method spring and fall, but especially in the fall. The sumo saugers on the upper pools of the Mississippi can't help hitting a jr. Thunderstick.

Good luck

[blueroof]

Guys I have read alot about trolling floating stickbaits on three-ways or behind bottom bouncers in river systems... ..which rig has served you the best? What do you think the pros and cons are of a three-way vs. a bottom bouncer is??

For the most part, I consider those presentations one and the same. Three way rigging with a short tag to the lead is essentially the same as a bottom bouncer. Conversely, even the armless pencil Bbouncers are kinda 3 way-ish.

I run all my BB cranks using pencil weights. I vary the leader lengths to fit my boat speed, the type of lure and how the fish are responding. At times I have a 4' leader to the lead, others I use essentially no leader and run them as a true BB. In the fall the 3 way is killer when covering short and irregular structure, places lead is harder to pull.

[Biggs]

When running three way rigs in current in about 25ft of water how do you determine what size weight to use?

[Kino]

When running three way rigs in current in about 25ft of water how do you determine what size weight to use?

I have thought about this also and the name of the game is to be on BOTTOM with your stickbait, so I would think you would need whatever amount of weight it takes to keep the bait there. The flow and power of the current is what would determine the amout so all rivers vary. Not sure that you could ever have to much weight???

[Kino]

I fish the Mississippi all year long and use all the above. I prefer leadcore where available but three way rigs come in second. I rarely use bottom bouncers because you will loose your whole rig on a snap if the bouncer gets caught up. With a three-way rig you could loose just the sinker if you rig right.

The benefits of leadcore are as follows
follows the contours well
follows the path of the boat well
one line in the water (with a leader), less items to break or snag
you can use a linecounter for an exact duplication, or count colors

Trolling stickbaits on leadcore and three way rigs is my number one method spring and fall, but especially in the fall. The sumo saugers on the upper pools of the Mississippi can't help hitting a jr. Thunderstick.

Good luck


What are some of your productive colors and do you prefer the jr thundersticks over the rapalas and others?

[Backwater Eddy]

I fish the Mississippi all year long and use all the above. I prefer leadcore where available but three way rigs come in second. I rarely use bottom bouncers because you will loose your whole rig on a snap if the bouncer gets caught up. With a three-way rig you could loose just the sinker if you rig right.

The benefits of leadcore are as follows
follows the contours well
follows the path of the boat well
one line in the water (with a leader), less items to break or snag
you can use a linecounter for an exact duplication, or count colors

Trolling stickbaits on leadcore and three way rigs is my number one method spring and fall, but especially in the fall. The sumo saugers on the upper pools of the Mississippi can't help hitting a jr. Thunderstick.

Good luck

In the past I have not been a fan of leadcore...because to me it has no feel...but that is me.

BUT...I'm interested in your system in river current situations.

What weight leadcore do you run, what are you running for a leader, and what is the current situation your dealing with in the Miss? What is the max-flow you can run lead in without it becoming bothersome?

I appreciate your input..Thanks.

[wimwuen unlogged]

I always run 18lb leadcore, and on the Mississippi I usually run a 6'-10' leader which is usually ample since it's stained water.

The amount of flow is the big factor that decides if I run leadcore or three-ways. In the fall (which is usually the best bite), I run leadcore most of the time because the flow is stable to low and pretty steady. In the fall we usually see about 15kcfs and try to troll over the vast flats that Saugers especially like to stage on. You can run leadcore in higher flow, but will need more lead to achieve the same depths, which is why I'll switch to three-way rigs in higher current conditions.

My general rules of thumb are as follows.

Current under 20kcfs I run leadcore whenever possible

Water more than 25' deep I tend to run three-way rigs (mainly because water this deep tends to be holes that are short stretches so dropping a sinker down to quickly get in that zone makes more sense, I very rarely fish this deep though, the majority of my fish are caught between 12' and 20').

As for baits, the colder it gets, the more I rely on stickbaits. If I have somebody else in the boat, we will usually run 4 rods, and we will put a variety of baits on untill we find a preference. The starting point is usually as follows.
1 Jr Thunderstick in Purple Prizm
1 #4 jointed shad rap or #5 flicker shad (a green back, with pearl belly)
1 Jr Thunderstick in either firetiger or Chart with Orange head
1 small (#5 or smaller) floating Rapala (some days the small baits work the best) in firetiger, Hot Steele (one of my favorites), or black/silver.

The main reason I run Jr Thundersticks so much, is because I always seem to find them on clearance for $3 or less, and they produce every bit as well as my floating Rapalas for this application, plus they have some colors that I really like. One other bait I never troll without in the fall is the Cabelas stick bait, they used to have one called Pot of Gold which was a favorite, but it was discontinued. The next year they came out with one called Gold Flame, which was another favorite, but again was discontinued. The key here is the bright gold colors they had.

Here's a link to a short video I made last year trolling leadcore on pool 7 of the Mississippi (Trempealeau, WI) in mid November. These fish weren't huge, but we caught 20 some Saugers between 15 & 20" in less than two hours doing this.
http://walleye.outdoorsfirst.com/watch.asp?id=1257

This method really does put fish in the boat. The best part is, no cold hands from dipping them into the minnow bucket. We fish open water all year long on pool 4, so we're out on some ugly days. We run a big tournament boat, and a jon boat which is what we were fishing out of on this video ( I was filming, and running the boat) so the boat doesn't really matter, as long as you can troll down to 1mph up to 2mph, I use a drift sock to slow the Jon boat.

Let me know if I can be any more help.

Marshall Wuensch
www.bladesandbeads.com

[Backwater Eddy]

Great info, thanks for the breakdown of your system...makes solid logic to me.

Thanks again,

[wimwuen]

No problem. I'll be doing some better video soon, maybe this weekend. I hope to show everything from bait selection, to deploying line, to watching the sonar to show speed, depth, and temps. I'll post a link once I get the video uploaded.

We'll see what the Sauger gods have in store for us.

[Tim Ellis]

When running three way rigs in current in about 25ft of water how do you determine what size weight to use?

A good rule of thumb is to use 1oz weight per 10 ft of water depth. For 25 ft i would use 2.5-3 oz of weight which will keep the line at 45 degree angle or less at this slow trolling speed.

[Ebby]

A good rule of thumb is to use 1oz weight per 10 ft of water depth. For 25 ft i would use 2.5-3 oz of weight which will keep the line at 45 degree angle or less at this slow trolling speed.

Hey Tim,

What do you use for a rod and line?

[Doc_wi]

I've been experimenting with the new Off Shore Guppy's for pulling crank baits in rivers. Works great for getting small stick baits to the bottom. I have been keeping the bait fairly close to the Guppy, about 18 inches. Nice because I can pause, bang the bottom a few times, then move forward. I just find bottom with the Guppy and pick it up a bit when I move forward. I use braid to the Guppy and a fluorocarbon snell. I'll post some video soon.