Aluminum Hull Construction Questions

[DRAG]

After 12 months of shopping for a boat, I still have not made a decision. Giving up drag racing to spend some time on the water is a big life changing decision, so I have fought my impulsiveness all year...and glad I did. I keep learning more and more and have had the chance to look at a LOT of boats. I can't miss out this year and I have saved...so the time is getting closer.

After shopping aluminum boats up and down, my short list is led by a glass boat...Stratos 386XF. I'm still not 100% because I do like the aluminum boats. My dad keeps pounding in my head "Son I've owned boats my whole life and all my aluminum boats eventually leaked. Fiberglass lasts longer, rides better, rides dryer, handles salt, etc, etc." I can't argue with him because I agree!! :deadhorse:

Old man aside, I'm still attracted to aluminum boats. So before I pull the trigger on the Stratos, I have some questions about the hull construction on alum.

1. Lund has the double plated bow, Alumacraft has various thicknesses of double plated hulls on their boats (.100 and .080 depending on model), G3 has a very robust double .100 all the way back. I see people comparing boats like Starcraft and Polar Kraft (both of which I like) to the double plated hull boats. I see Crestliner is a top choice for ruggedness as well. How can a boat's structural integrity be compared to another boat with double the metal underneath you? I realize there are structural skeletons between the hull and the floor that make all the difference, but the double hull brands aren't lacking in that area.

I'm not worried about bashing rocks or beaching my boat or putting it through the pain some of you guys do in tournaments. I'm going to be puttering around central Indiana lakes, Kentucky, Tenn with one trip every year to Lake Michigan and one to Minnesota.

2. Why are most aluminum boats rivited and not welded like the Crestliner? Someone has to think there is a structural integrity advantage or it wouldn't be like that.

Sorry for the long post. I'm so anxious to get back fishing...something I have missed out on for 12 years.

[Jimmy Jig]

If you have been waiting a year to pick a boat you are putting way to much thought into this. Just go buy a Lund and be done with it......

[Steve of Madison]

Drag

I got an opportunity to get up close and personal with some G3 boats last friday and came away impressed. I am looking to buy a new boat this spring as well and they just move up my list along with Alumacraft, Lund et al. The layout, fit, finish, vinyl floor (I'm a worm guy), and just the little thought out things make me think this might be a good choice.
Most of the guys on this post live and die by Lund/Merc and will let you know why. They are fine boats, but the local dealer here in Madison are real proud of thier Lunds and do not deal, if they can get away with it good for them. For me, I have to maximize my purchasing $$$$'s. G3 has made my list.

[ksx3]

A good Lund dealer close to Madison who will deal is Jerry's Sport Service in Beloit. He also now carries Yarcraft as well for fiberglass. You can get several boats with snap in carpet or vinyl.

If you have waited a year, the spring fishing show is a great place to dicker on prices and options. What's waiting a few more months to get your rig.

Since you still have some confusion / issues with decisions - make a list of the things that are important to you / must have's, like and dislikes (pro's & con's) of the models you are serious about. Don't forget about things like service, rigging, etc in your choice.

You also can get quite a bit more bang for the buck going used / repo'd, etc if you can narrow down your search by models.

PS - Alumacraft owner here, so nothing to gain by telling you about Lund, etc. If it helps we had it narrowed down to Lund's pro-v w/ walkthrough, Alumacraft's Tournament Sport or Crestliner's Tournament models prior to our purchase. We also knew our price point, options and garage limitations prior to purchase. Don't forget what you trailer on as well. Trailers are not all the same.

[DRAG]

If you have been waiting a year to pick a boat you are putting way to much thought into this. Just go buy a Lund and be done with it......

Instead of just saying it...how is the Lund hull better than the Alumacraft and G3? Don't they both carry a thicker plate further back than the Lund?

Drag

I got an opportunity to get up close and personal with some G3 boats last friday and came away impressed. I am looking to buy a new boat this spring as well and they just move up my list along with Alumacraft, Lund et al. The layout, fit, finish, vinyl floor (I'm a worm guy), and just the little thought out things make me think this might be a good choice.
Most of the guys on this post live and die by Lund/Merc and will let you know why. They are fine boats, but the local dealer here in Madison are real proud of thier Lunds and do not deal, if they can get away with it good for them. For me, I have to maximize my purchasing $$$$'s. G3 has made my list.

I felt the same way about the G3. It has impressed me the most overall. There are a couple things I would like to see different, but fit and finish on the Angler V I looked at was perfect.

[Chucker57]

Lund and Ranger are like a Harley. Are they worth the extra money??? Are they that much better??? Why are Lund and Ranger the boat that all the others are compare to??? Buy one and you will understand why.

Chuck

[DRAG]

Lund and Ranger are like a Harley. Are they worth the extra money??? Are they that much better??? Why are Lund and Ranger the boat that all the others are compare to??? Buy one and you will understand why.

Chuck

Ouch if they are like a Harley then I'll be sure to take them off my list :driver:
I don't really want to make this another comparison of Brand X vs Brand Y. I just want to talk about hull construction. How can a .100 single layer hull compare to a .100x2 hull?

[Chucker57]

Drag, very simple, it doesn't compare. The double hulls are hard to beat. In tournaments I fished back in the 80,s - 90's the boats without the double hulls were the ones that were tearing hulls up. That why several boat companies changed over in that era. Also remember the internal sturture of the boat is very important. I think Lunds design is hard to beat.

Chuck

[Hot Runr Guy]

Drag,
'ya know you want the Stratos! Pack the family in the tow vehicle, drop them off at the Mall of America, run over to Cabelas-Rogers and snag this: http://www.cabelas.com/retail-2/--cabelas--en--content--community--aboutus--retail--retail_stores--boat_info--rog--rogpo_36555.jsp.shtml

and everyone will be happy on the ride back home. :driver:

HRG

[DRAG]

Drag,
'ya know you want the Stratos! Pack the family in the tow vehicle, drop them off at the Mall of America, run over to Cabelas-Rogers and snag this: http://www.cabelas.com/retail-2/--cabelas--en--content--community--aboutus--retail--retail_stores--boat_info--rog--rogpo_36555.jsp.shtml

and everyone will be happy on the ride back home. :driver:

HRG

That is certainly at the front of my list at the moment :phatyo:

[waterwalker]

Drag,
If you like the 386 Stratos, be sure and look at a 385 as they are more geared toward fishing and have a little more room in the bow with the rod locker built in the bow. A little more of a fishing boat vs. the 386 which is more family oriented. Have fun and enjoy what you pick out. :cheers:

[Hot Runr Guy]

That is certainly at the front of my list at the moment :phatyo:
Or, a red one with a black motor. http://www.boattrader.com/listing/2008-STRATOS-386-XF-95981428/?ZMC=Oodle&BAC-Oodle

HRG

[rebs]

Don't make a decision until you have taken a ride in a Starcraft STX 2050

[T Mac]

2. Why are most aluminum boats rivited and not welded like the Crestliner? Someone has to think there is a structural integrity advantage or it wouldn't be like that.


Actually more aluminum hulls are welded than riveted on account of the costs involved.
More manpower and hands-on time is involved in a riveted hull, but means higher cost.
The advantage of a riveted hull is that it can take flexing better than welds. (Like an airplane wing)
However, some riveted boats are built better than others and some have more hull design advancements.

On the other hand, an aluminum weld does not flex well.(will crack along the weld).
However, some welded aluminums (.. a good example is what we call "heavy guage" out west, here)...are designed so as not to flex . No flex = no crack.
Here again some are built better than others.

Most important thing is: Not so much the weld or rivet...but the application, and if or not, whoever built the boat has a good internal structure and provides good workmanship for the application.

Plus...the best design in the world will be destroyed by sloppy workmanship.

...And tell your Dad that glass boats can leak, too. I sold both... I know.

[DRAG]

...And tell your Dad that glass boats can leak, too. I sold both... I know.

Thanks for the response to my original question T Mac. You are right about glass leaking. My uncle had a Nitro bass boat that developed a small crack in the rear of the hull several years after he bought it. Tracker delivered him a brand new boat no questions asked. Heck that would be convenient to develop a crack every 3 or 4 years :D

[1850vswanted]

Lund and Ranger are like a Harley. Are they worth the extra money??? Are they that much better??? Why are Lund and Ranger the boat that all the others are compare to??? Buy one and you will understand why.

Chuck
I better budget more for repairs :stirthepot:

[Hombre Robusto]

Lund and Ranger are like a Harley. Are they worth the extra money??? Are they that much better??? Why are Lund and Ranger the boat that all the others are compare to??? Buy one and you will understand why.

My Lund was a great boat. My Ranger is a great boat. Every Harley that I had experience with was a miserable POS.

I've had many aluminum boats, and I've had many glass boats. I currently have, and will stick with glass boats.

[MarkG]

Actually even riveted boats have welds too. I have owned many riveted boats in my 30 years of boating,,,the only leak I ever had was when a keel weld cracked

In regards to double plated hulls,,the double plate in the bow was originally meant to stiffen the hull when they started hanging higher HP on these things. I think Lund might have been the 1st to do it. Later Alumacraft came out with the 2XB ,,some of them the length of the boat. The actual benefit of doing it the length of the boat may be more for marketing than anything.

Now this actually relates to my cracked keel weld,because the reason it cracked was that the boat was an early model 1988 Lund Renegade that was maxed out with a 90hp. They were not twin plated yet. They had problems with non twin plated maxed out HP Renegades, too much flex. But they had no problems with same units rigged with less HP. Lund themselves told me this.
They fixed it and retro fitted it with a twin plate bow,and I pounded the heck out of it for years after,with no problem.

[kliph]

One other thing to think about.
Do you take the boat out in the winter?
Now that may sound foolish to some, but here the Niagara river is open
most of the year.
And I don't see any glass boats on the river in the winter.
Maybe some do, but I haven't seen them.

It could be because of trailering in sub freezing temps or having to run
through some ice with the boat.
The worry of cracking the glass.

[DRAG]

Thanks for the input guys.

[Esoxchaser]

I have owned a number of aluminum boats made by Crestliner, Lund and a Starcraft, Now I own a glass boat. The reasons are simple. the considerably better ride of glass makes my arthritic spine ache less after a day on the water. And other than the Crestliner, every aluminum boat I have had can't take the flexing of St Clairs patternless confused waves for more than a couple seasons before they develop wet bilge syndrome. The Starcraft hull literally failed after a couple seasons.
We launch glass boats year long in the St Clair River, other than spring when the Lake Huron ice is coming down so thick there is no way around it. Never had any issues with cold weather and glass, but we don't use them for ice breakers, the launch is usually clear.

[DRAG]

I have owned a number of aluminum boats made by Crestliner, Lund and a Starcraft, Now I own a glass boat. The reasons are simple. the considerably better ride of glass makes my arthritic spine ache less after a day on the water. And other than the Crestliner, every aluminum boat I have had can't take the flexing of St Clairs patternless confused waves for more than a couple seasons before they develop wet bilge syndrome. The Starcraft hull literally failed after a couple seasons.
We launch glass boats year long in the St Clair River, other than spring when the Lake Huron ice is coming down so thick there is no way around it. Never had any issues with cold weather and glass, but we don't use them for ice breakers, the launch is usually clear.

What you said is basically what my dad explained to me. My home lake is 11,000 acres of patternless waves created by hundreds of weekend boaters and people thinking they need 50 foot yachts on a small lake...and he said all those alums developed a wet bilge after a couple seasons of dealing with that type of water. Thanks for the input. The short list gets shorter.

[Chucker57]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esoxchaser
I have owned a number of aluminum boats made by Crestliner, Lund and a Starcraft, Now I own a glass boat. The reasons are simple. the considerably better ride of glass makes my arthritic spine ache less after a day on the water. And other than the Crestliner, every aluminum boat I have had can't take the flexing of St Clairs patternless confused waves for more than a couple seasons before they develop wet bilge syndrome. The Starcraft hull literally failed after a couple seasons.
We launch glass boats year long in the St Clair River, other than spring when the Lake Huron ice is coming down so thick there is no way around it. Never had any issues with cold weather and glass, but we don't use them for ice breakers, the launch is usually clear.

What you said is basically what my dad explained to me. My home lake is 11,000 acres of patternless waves created by hundreds of weekend boaters and people thinking they need 50 foot yachts on a small lake...and he said all those alums developed a wet bilge after a couple seasons of dealing with that type of water. Thanks for the input. The short list gets shorter.


LOL, I guess I always worried more about making a 20 mile run in 3 foot plus waves, out running a thunder storm.

[beeman]

Lund would be my first choice, second starcraft fishmaster, third crestliner. All have strong points and weaknesses. Personaly i hate glass:boohoo:

[DRAG]

Lund would be my first choice, second starcraft fishmaster, third crestliner. All have strong points and weaknesses. Personaly i hate glass:boohoo:

Can you elaborate on why you hate glass? I am certainly more attracted to tin boats, but I think just because they look more rugged :grin: I also like the flat top sides for stepping, sitting and fishing.

I think I have one picked out. My short list is down to 3, all are aluminum :smokin:

[beeman]

Ranger im sure is nice but is it sea worthy? Most ive seen lower in water like a bass boat. Resale on aluminum is super everyone wants one. I just like tin been there done that in fiberglass. Another advantage you can paint the alum boats, infact im thinking about copying Lunds new metalic paints. Rigging metal is better downriggers,pole holders yada yada.

[DRAG]

The glass boats just look shallow because of the hull shape. They are just as deep and they can contour the glass to throw water away from the boat. If anything, those are more seaworthy than alum boats and they don't blow around as much. There are arguments for both...and thats what I'm going through :)

[Hombre Robusto]

Ranger im sure is nice but is it sea worthy? Most ive seen lower in water like a bass boat.

Have you ever ridden in a Ranger? My last boat was a Lund that I bought brand new in '07. My first ride in a Ranger was in 4-6' seas on Lake Erie. I was sold less than a mile from the dock. I took delivery of a new Ranger the next spring. I've owned plenty of tin boats, but will most likely never own another one. Not for Lake Erie, at least, which is where I fish 99.9% of the time.

[MarkG]

I think you just have to consider WHERE you are fishing :

If fishing rocky lakes like many in Mn or Canada or definitely If fishing rivers,,, like the Wisconsin,(I do) with a lot of crap,and obstacles,stumps rocks,gravel and sandbars,even at times lots of floating debris,logs,,(even pieces of peoples houses after a flood) etc,,where you are likely to be banging your boat around on stuff ,then in my opinion aluminum seems to make sense. Think I would rather dent it up some,than take chunks out of it or maybe even crack it,like could happen to glass.

Otherwise,,I think if I was fishing big open water like Erie or Michigan ,or deep lakes like Dale Hollow,would go with glass,as long as a solid well built reputable brand.Quieter,smoother,maybe a bit heavier which will also contribute to the better ride. Unless price was an issue in favor of aluminum,(don't know because I have not compared recently) Then would not even think twice....Would Go Glass !!

I suppose it's arguable,but I really believe aluminum holds up better to impacts,but glass hulls (well built glass hulls) hold up better to pounding from heavy waves.

[The.257Sniper]

Ranger and Lund is without a doubt the best built boats period. If you want glass, Ranger should be at the top of your list. If you want Alum (and it is better) then Lund should be at the top of your list.

[Guest]

Ranger and Lund is without a doubt the best built boats period. If you want glass, Ranger should be at the top of your list. If you want Alum (and it is better) then Lund should be at the top of your list.

According to Who??? Or, more professionally, I should just say, prove it. Lund and Ranger are both good products but "without a doubt the best boats built period"???? I can happily put you in touch with lots of former Lund owners who'd rather fish from shore in a pair of waders than spend one nickle or 5 minutes of their life in another Lund. Over the past 20 years I have been in at least 30 different manufacturers boats (Glass and Aluminum) and without question, Lund is the wettest riding boat made today, no question. That doesn't mean it's a flawed or bad product, but the hull design on their bigger models clearly hasn't kept pace with the rest of the industry. I actually thought the Harley reference was quite good and quite accurate. A friend of mine fell victim to the Harley craze a few years ago and as he likes to say, "you'll only ever own one, and not because you'll have it forever".

Drag,
The aluminum vs. Glass question really comes down to your preference and what and where you'll be using the boat more. Bigger water and rougher treatment usually lends itself more to a glass boat. All of the Aluminum companies you mentioned make good quality products. Don't get too caught up in the double plating, double bow and all that stuff. It has very little to do with construction integrity and everything to do with marketing. Find the boat and engine package that fits your use and a dealer you like and trust to work with. Boating should be fun, and that includes buying it.
(Please note, I did not "plug" any particular brand)

[Waxy]

According to Who??? Or, more professionally, I should just say, prove it. Lund and Ranger are both good products but "without a doubt the best boats built period"???? I can happily put you in touch with lots of former Lund owners who'd rather fish from shore in a pair of waders than spend one nickle or 5 minutes of their life in another Lund. Over the past 20 years I have been in at least 30 different manufacturers boats (Glass and Aluminum) and without question, Lund is the wettest riding boat made today, no question. That doesn't mean it's a flawed or bad product, but the hull design on their bigger models clearly hasn't kept pace with the rest of the industry. I actually thought the Harley reference was quite good and quite accurate. A friend of mine fell victim to the Harley craze a few years ago and as he likes to say, "you'll only ever own one, and not because you'll have it forever".

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black lol.

There are former owners of everything and every brand who wouldn't buy another, no big deal there.

You then make a broad reaching claim about Lund being the wettest riding boat made today, and even going so far as to state, as you mocked the last poster for, that there's "no question" about it.

So we have two differing opinions here, both insisting they are 100% right. The only difference being that you've stated your credentials as having been in at least 30 different manufacturer's boats (are there even that many fishing boat manufacturers?) over a 20 year period. I guess that should carry more weight or count as proof in your mind.

I get a real kick out of the total lack of logic in these kind of threads, no matter how impartial people try to be, their bias always shows through.

Waxy

[Chucker57]

LOL

According to Who??? Or, more professionally, I should just say, prove it. Lund and Ranger are both good products but "without a doubt the best boats built period"???? I can happily put you in touch with lots of former Lund owners who'd rather fish from shore in a pair of waders than spend one nickle or 5 minutes of their life in another Lund. Over the past 20 years I have been in at least 30 different manufacturers boats (Glass and Aluminum) and without question, Lund is the wettest riding boat made today, no question. That doesn't mean it's a flawed or bad product, but the hull design on their bigger models clearly hasn't kept pace with the rest of the industry. I actually thought the Harley reference was quite good and quite accurate. A friend of mine fell victim to the Harley craze a few years ago and as he likes to say, "you'll only ever own one, and not because you'll have it forever".

Drag,
The aluminum vs. Glass question really comes down to your preference and what and where you'll be using the boat more. Bigger water and rougher treatment usually lends itself more to a glass boat. All of the Aluminum companies you mentioned make good quality products. Don't get too caught up in the double plating, double bow and all that stuff. It has very little to do with construction integrity and everything to do with marketing. Find the boat and engine package that fits your use and a dealer you like and trust to work with. Boating should be fun, and that includes buying it.
(Please note, I did not "plug" any particular brand)


LOL

[Guest]

Ok, you are correct, I shouldn't state a claim like that (Lund being the wettest hull) and then not back it up with facts. And you are also correct about past owners. I don't care if it's a boat, car, motorcycle or fishing rod, you can always find someone who owned a particular brand of something and was disatisfied. My point is that you cant just state something is the best there is...just because you happen to think so. There is a difference between opinon and fact and I just got too worked up in trying to explain that.

Sadly there really are, or were that many different boat brands out there, it's just that a lot have gone out of business over the years. Sea Nymph, Deep Water, Mariah (a couple times) the list goes on and on.

[Steve of Madison]

DRAG.............I told you this kind of argument would erupt. By the way, what did you buy or are you still contemplating your alternatives?

[Waxy]

Ok, you are correct, I shouldn't state a claim like that (Lund being the wettest hull) and then not back it up with facts. And you are also correct about past owners. I don't care if it's a boat, car, motorcycle or fishing rod, you can always find someone who owned a particular brand of something and was disatisfied. My point is that you cant just state something is the best there is...just because you happen to think so. There is a difference between opinon and fact and I just got too worked up in trying to explain that.

Sadly there really are, or were that many different boat brands out there, it's just that a lot have gone out of business over the years. Sea Nymph, Deep Water, Mariah (a couple times) the list goes on and on.

Hey, I've caught myself doing it more than once too, no big deal.

These days I only really read threads like this for the comic value, because they're all the same. It makes me wonder why there's still so many of them being posted.

The reality is, that if opinion were removed and only the facts were considered, these threads wouldn't exist, because there is no best boat, and there really isn't any worst boat, it's all a matter of personal preference and application. These days, boats are so good that a person really can't go wrong with any of them IMHO.

Waxy

[1850vswanted]

My Ranger is so good that it must have been made by a foreign company:rotfl:

[LeeHarveyOddball]

Over the past 20 years I have been in at least 30 different manufacturers boats (Glass and Aluminum) and without question, Lund is the wettest riding boat made today, no question.

Obviously you've never rode in a Crestliner or StarCraft.

[kliph]

This is why I don't post on personal opinions.

Not having the experience of some, I have only owned boats for 35+ years.
http://kliphs-underground.blogspot.com/2009/07/boat-day-on-lake.html
And not having as many boats as some, I have only owned 6 boats over that time.

With my lack of experience I now own a 1850 Crestliner SF.
Having taken many other inexperienced boaters out fishing, they are surprised
at the dry ride and who well the boat handles large waves.
Now some may think "large waves"? Like what!
How about Lake Erie and Like Ontario.
The boat handles the waves better than some of the occupants.

My point is, you go fast enough in big enough waves you will get wet.
No matter the kind of boat.
That is why the Bassmasters canceled Lake Erie at Buffalo for next year.
Too many broken boats.
Just my 2 cents.

[beeman]

Drier ride is something i didnt understand untill i rode in another similar boat. Mine just plain floats higher in water, better hull design maybe thats just fishmaster series starcrafts dunno. No boat should allow you to get wet. I own two boats crestliner SH and starcraft boat very similar. Each one has pluses and minus. Cresty floats way lower in motor area. There is a guy that just bought a new superfisherman 180 show us some pics of hull design and size, there is no equal to this rig for dry ride.

[DRAG]

LOL, I guess I always worried more about making a 20 mile run in 3 foot plus waves, out running a thunder storm.

Don't misjudge a small lake with a bunch of 50 foot Sea Rays and Carvers plowing through at 25mph and 100 or more 30 foot boats doing the same. That makes 3 foot rollers on big water seem tame :D I totally understand you about outrunning a storm. I have been in 2 ugly ones, one on Lake Michigan in 10 footers and one 100 miles south of the Fl Keys that made even the 10 footers feel small. Thank goodness Donzi builds one heck of a strong 27 foot cruiser:help:

DRAG.............I told you this kind of argument would erupt. By the way, what did you buy or are you still contemplating your alternatives?

It isn't too bad of an argument and there is nothing else to do anyway LOL. I appreciate everyone's personal opinions, regardless of how biased. I can pick and choose which ones seem legitimate. I'm still looking around...not in a hurry at all. I plan on looking at some side by side at our boat show in Feb and I will probably do something then. This is something I plan on keeping for 10 years so I want to make sure I give them all a good look.

[bob oh]

My Ranger is so good that it must have been made by a foreign company:rotfl:

That isn't the stupidest comment I've read on here, but it's in the running.

[DaleGilbert]

One of the things I have found over the past 30 years, is that I like aluminum and I like Lund boats. I have seen a lot of things over the years, and been in a number of different boats -- most will do you well if treated well, but there are some significant differences in how well some boats are made and hold up vs. others. Bottom line, you get what you pay for.

I like my riveted Lund -- because I believe it is better than a welded boat -- especially when you are talking about the relatively lighter aluminum hulls and welds. Rivets are used on airplance wings, and old Toyota Landcruiser frames were riveted vs. welded because they could flex rather than break. T-Mac said it the way it is.

I have had aluminum boats that after 15 years of hard use, still were good -- maybe some fading of paint, but the hull was still good. I live where we frequently have to haul the boats on marginal gravel and the aluminum has held up well. I also can pull into shore and I don't have to worry the way I would with a glass boat. Even with a keel guard, I would still worry.

One of the things I found somewhat interesting was the tech trailers at some of the major walleye circuit tournaments and what was getting worked on -- weaknesses have a tendancy to show up at those events -- yet I would say that anything that is abused can break and some people are pretty abusive to their stuff.

I have a new Lund on order and have never sold one of my Lunds that I wasn't happy with. Some I wish I still had.

Lund has a new glass boat, which has been designed with the IPS hull configuration like the Pro V's have. Frankly, I like how my 2025 Pro V IFS rides better than anything else I have been in.

Prior to Lund coming out with a glass boat I wouldn't have considered any other glass boat than a Ranger -- they are top of the line. But frankly, I'll never switch from aluminum. It has served me very well over the years and I am amazed at how quiet and nice a ride I have.

The last reason, I like my Lund is the resale value -- I have never really had a problem selling a used Lund boat. My 15 year old boat sold to the first guy that called sight unseen -- simply based on the reputation. In the long run, even if you pay a bit more up front for it, I think you will get it back in the long run.

I also think it is important to work with a company and dealor that has a good reputation and will be around to take care of you if or when you might ever need something fixed.

Sincerely.

[REW]

Drag,
Your decision is really based on many things.
1. Where are you going to use your rig- rocky bottom that you need to beach on a rocky shore - aluminum will stand up better to this treatment.
However, the keel guard that is available for both aluminum and glass boats tend to mitigate this issue.

2. How are you going to use your boat. Are you going to use it only for fishing, for cruising, for both, for sun bathing??

3. With the layout of any boat in question, can you do what you want to do in the boat. i.e. is the seating, comfort, setup condusive agreeable with what you intend to do with the boat.

4. What sort of conditions do you intend to use your boat. Calm, windy, stormy - all of the above?

5. How much power are you going to put on your boat? Do you intend to travel long distances in the boat?

In todays boats, all of these questions can be anwered by various models of both aluminum and glass boats.

One key thing to do - if you can - is to take any prospective boats out on a lake in a big wind situation - say 30-40 mph and see how you like each of the boats.

It is quite remarkable how different some boats ride, handle, are dry, or are wet - depending on the wind and waves. Drive all of the boats in similar ways. i.e. fast, slow, up wind, down wind, cross chop etc.

So many folks take out a boat on a calm lake for a test drive, and drive it from an idle to wide open up wind and downwind and pronounce it to be the boat that they want.

Then, after purchasing the boat, they take it to their favorite lake on the days that they have to fish and find that they are always fishing in 30-40 mph winds and find that they really dislike the boat for issues relating to wind, waves, and chop.

There are a myriad of things related to the wind. Waves, big and small. Chop - heavy and light. Cross wind - causing blow over and wet and rough rides.

Also, check out how a boat comes up on plane in rough and smooth water. Can you hold a boat at a certain attitude in rough and smooth water.

----------
When looking at buying a new boat - stand in front of the boat, near the bottom of the hull and site down the length of the boat, and imagine how water will be interfacing with the hull. i.e. will water come up the sides of the hull and keep going straight up - to be blown on the occupants in a cross wind. Or, when sighting down the length of the hull do you see a reverse bend so that as the water comes up the side of the hull, it encounters the reverse bend so that the rising water will be diverted back and down to the surface of the lake. Answers to questions like this really help to determine the ride and dry or wet quality of a particular boat.

Bottom line - test rides in all weather and water conditions are really necessary to answer these questions.

The boat that you are looking at - i.e. the Stratos - is in general - a pretty good compromise for most of these questions.
As with any purchase, a boat is a compromise. If this is the hull and rig for you and if it passess your criteria, go for it.
Then, if you find that there are issues with fit and finish details that you don't like - fix them and move on.

Good luck
REW

[oscar]

Drag, I actually remember last year when you originally started shopping and posting on this. I was going through the same processes that you are going through. I still had not decided between glass and aluminum until the day I actually purchased the boat. I agree with REW, my decision was based on what suited my needs. I chose glass, not that it is better, but it fit my applications better than aluminum did, and does at this particular time in my life. That may change at any given time and I think it is important to realize that while you are shopping. Purchase what best fits you and your needs now and what you forsee in the future, that way you can have the time to enjoy your purchase.

[DRAG]

People have mentioned that I need to take a ride in the ones I'm interested in. What is the best way to go about doing that? Do I need to basically know someone that owns one, or is this something that can be set up with a manufacturer? Clearly this isn't like test driving a new car :D I rode in a Lund and a Starcraft because I have friends that have them.

Also I have spent a lot of time traveling to dealers and all the ones somewhat close to me have some models, but never the one I'm looking at. Will some of these manufacturers let you come to the factory to see the different models? I don't want to order blind and a lot of the boats at the dealers are 2007 and 2008s...I just think ordering a $35,000 item blind is silly. I want to look at a Polar Kraft and a Starcraft...does anyone know if they will let me go to their factory to check them out??


I ended up at a Bass Pro Shops this Saturday by accident when I was shopping for furniture with my wife and they had a Targa or whatever their boat is...so why not take a look right? I felt bad for the guys selling these boats to be honest. I expected much more, even from Tracker. There were some great features in the boat, but construction was poorly executed. I can't believe they sent that boat out the door like that :badidea: I stood on the floor compartment and it buckled and one of the compartments between the consoles couldn't open because it wasn't centered and it hit the driver side console...who lets something like that out the door?

[Hombre Robusto]

I stood on the floor compartment and it buckled and one of the compartments between the consoles couldn't open because it wasn't centered and it hit the driver side console...who lets something like that out the door?

Tracker did. It's common practice for them. A buddy of mine has a Targa. If you spent twenty seconds or more looking at the fit and finish, you'd swear that Stevie Wonder assembled this boat.

[perchjerker]

Tracker did. It's common practice for them. A buddy of mine has a Targa. If you spent twenty seconds or more looking at the fit and finish, you'd swear that Stevie Wonder assembled this boat.

Ray Charles did the underdash wiring om my Crestliner. It was a ok boat.

nothing like my Grady though

;)

[The.257Sniper]

According to Who??? Or, more professionally, I should just say, prove it. Lund and Ranger are both good products but "without a doubt the best boats built period"???? I can happily put you in touch with lots of former Lund owners who'd rather fish from shore in a pair of waders than spend one nickle or 5 minutes of their life in another Lund. Over the past 20 years I have been in at least 30 different manufacturers boats (Glass and Aluminum) and without question, Lund is the wettest riding boat made today, no question. That doesn't mean it's a flawed or bad product, but the hull design on their bigger models clearly hasn't kept pace with the rest of the industry. I actually thought the Harley reference was quite good and quite accurate. A friend of mine fell victim to the Harley craze a few years ago and as he likes to say, "you'll only ever own one, and not because you'll have it forever".

Drag,
The aluminum vs. Glass question really comes down to your preference and what and where you'll be using the boat more. Bigger water and rougher treatment usually lends itself more to a glass boat. All of the Aluminum companies you mentioned make good quality products. Don't get too caught up in the double plating, double bow and all that stuff. It has very little to do with construction integrity and everything to do with marketing. Find the boat and engine package that fits your use and a dealer you like and trust to work with. Boating should be fun, and that includes buying it.
(Please note, I did not "plug" any particular brand)

According to me, thats who! You post as a guest and you want to call me out? He who says his boat is not wet is a liar!!!

[T.N.R.]

I have to think that a welded boat from heavy gage aluminum will outlast any fiberglass or riveted aluminum boat. Have you ever seen the big 20' + boats they run through rapids and across log jams in rivers. You will never run a glass or riveted boat in those conditions and get away with it. If you've not seen it before, check it out. It is truly amazing. You can find video of this on either you tube or on a site called onthesanduskyriver. I personally own a welded boat that is .250" thick and it is as tough as a tank. I hit a stump about 2' plus in diameter in early April when the water temperature was very cold. Had I been in my old riveted boat or in a glass boat I'm thinking it could have been ugly. After loading her back on the trailer I couldn't find any signs of where it had hit. Unbelievable!

[Chucker57]

T.N.R. what brand is your .250 thick hull boat? I have heard of double hull but not a .250 thickness hull.

[T.N.R.]

My hull is made by North River (a.k.a. Almar) out of Oregon. It is not double plated as most of the thicker hulled fishing boats you see in the Midwest.

[Miami Vice]

T.N.R.
Although you are using your boat as a pleasure boat, it's built more like a commercial boat. So yes it's like a tank, but you are giving up 2 advantages of a Lund type of boat.
A Lund boat will be about 30% lighter than a glass boat, and needs a smaller engine, smaller gas tank, smaller trailer, and smaller tow vehicle. Also because the Lund is mass produced, it's reasonably priced.
You type of boat is as heavy as a glass boat, and cost a lot more than a Lund.
As REW says. choosing a boat is a trade off, and when you are going over rapids with big rocks in the water, the only boat I would want to be on, is your boat.
But for fishing on a lake in the Mid West, and Lund will do just fine, and is a good value for what it is.
Miami Vice

[T.N.R.]

T.N.R.
Although you are using your boat as a pleasure boat, it's built more like a commercial boat. So yes it's like a tank, but you are giving up 2 advantages of a Lund type of boat.
A Lund boat will be about 30% lighter than a glass boat, and needs a smaller engine, smaller gas tank, smaller trailer, and smaller tow vehicle. Also because the Lund is mass produced, it's reasonably priced.
You type of boat is as heavy as a glass boat, and cost a lot more than a Lund.
As REW says. choosing a boat is a trade off, and when you are going over rapids with big rocks in the water, the only boat I would want to be on, is your boat.
But for fishing on a lake in the Mid West, and Lund will do just fine, and is a good value for what it is.
Miami Vice
Smaller engine, smaller gas tank, smaller, smaller, smaller.... Everyone knows BIGGER is always better. Smaller is never enough, it's the American way! Just Kidding!
However, I would like to mention that at the time I purchased my boat Lund was actually priced higher than North River.

[MarkG]

Those NorthRivers are definitly commercial grade boats. But Other than the Charter series,did not see any fishing boat models. But there are times on parts of the Wisconsin River that a hull built like this would be of benefit ! (Like when dodging houses and tree trunks floating down the river! LOL )

http://www.almarboats.com/

[ejj]

Lund are not cheap. Lund boats get decent mpg and speed because of the pad hull. Which ii why they tend to pound a bit too. Look at a true deep v (ocean style) and you will see some breathtaking mileage. (yikes)

[DRAG]

Yeah those North River boats are on a different level LOL. I got to look at one last year in a hotel parking lot of all places, and calling it a tank is pretty appropriate! I'm looking to spend in the $30s not in the $80s :bigsmile:


Does anyone know if Star Craft and Polar Kraft let you visit the factory? A couple other mfgs have invited me to come spend a day at their plants so I wasn't sure if these companies would allow the same.

[Hot Runr Guy]

Yeah those North River boats are on a different level LOL. I got to look at one last year in a hotel parking lot of all places, and calling it a tank is pretty appropriate! I'm looking to spend in the $30s not in the $80s :bigsmile:


Does anyone know if Star Craft and Polar Kraft let you visit the factory? A couple other mfgs have invited me to come spend a day at their plants so I wasn't sure if these companies would allow the same.
Drag,
I was at the Starcraft/Sylvan/Smokercraft facility 3 weeks ago, dropping a boat for repair. I'd give Don Huber (spl?) a call at 260-593-2500. They seem pretty accomodating.
HRG

[1850vswanted]

Quit wasting your time ,BUY A RANGER

[jefrobie]

Glass vs Aluminum...Have had both. Most in a pro bass style boat. Nothing rides like a Ranger although I've recently sold it and purchased a Lund Pro V 2025. A couple of reasons. I really do not like pulling a glass boat over dirt/gravel/which is primarily made the change. Not that I'm looking forward to pulling the Lund across the same road, but constant dust on the clearcoat over gelcoat just eventually scratches to the point of no return. I've owned at least 5 glass boats and every one of them ended up with spider cracks somewhere. I also like the thought of being able to throw a dog into the boat for some fishing companionship and could never bring myself to do so with my nice Rangers... Pulling over miles of dirt road, not stressing over scratching gel coat or looking forward to eventual spiders cracks and just feeling a bit better about mucking up a boat has led me to the aluminum side again. I never expect I'll experience the ride of the big glass boat, but 80 percent of the time I'm fishing and not running across a lake. Besides, from what I've read my 04 Lund 2025 IPS is no slouch when it comes to running across some big water!

[SALMONGUY]

double post sorry

[SG UL]

Lund are not cheap. Lund boats get decent mpg and speed because of the pad hull. Which ii why they tend to pound a bit too. Look at a true deep v (ocean style) and you will see some breathtaking mileage. (yikes)

This isnt always true there are a lot of factors such as wieght and engines. A 20ft HewesCraft deep V gets 7.5mpg and a top speed of about 45mph. Ill definately agree if you were talking carburated V8 I/O, older 2 stroke, or a hull of excessive weight.

Yeah those North River boats are on a different level LOL. I got to look at one last year in a hotel parking lot of all places, and calling it a tank is pretty appropriate! I'm looking to spend in the $30s not in the $80s :bigsmile:


Does anyone know if Star Craft and Polar Kraft let you visit the factory? A couple other mfgs have invited me to come spend a day at their plants so I wasn't sure if these companies would allow the same.

Youll have to forgive me im not trying to take the attention away from north river, im just a HewesCraft owner and speaking of what i know. A new 20ft HewesCraft is about $35k with the biggest motor rated for, i believe them to be in the same style as the north river but no where near $80k.

I dont really see Lund and North River or HewesCraft as direct competitors, they are completely different boats and will fit a completely different set of people. Lunds are a lot more comfortable on the inside with decks in the front and the NW style is pretty much a no nonsence all out trolling boat that a lot of wives wouldnt step foot it.

[guest]

A couple things to consider when looking at aluminum boats. What is the hull thickness? Is the hull twin plated all the way or just bow? Alumacraft, depending on model, is twin plated bow to stern.

What is the finish like? Alumacraft has base / clear coat paint vs. one step paint like all the rest.

Can I get whatever motor I want on the boat? You can with Alumacraft.

Who sells more aluminum boats per year in the United States? Alumacraft is number 2, Tracker is number 1, but Tracker also sells pontoons, which are included in their number 1 registration ratings.

Compare value with all major brands, visit the factories if desired, see how they are constructed. It's a lot of money to invest, don't take everyones word for it, see it for yourself.

Good Luck!

[rebs]

One other thing to think about.
Do you take the boat out in the winter?
Now that may sound foolish to some, but here the Niagara river is open
most of the year.
And I don't see any glass boats on the river in the winter.
Maybe some do, but I haven't seen them.

It could be because of trailering in sub freezing temps or having to run
through some ice with the boat.
The worry of cracking the glass.

you are right, glass boats are a no no in the river in the winter, they get scratched and gouged by the skim ice and chunks floating down from the lake. Aluminum stands up to these conditions. I know a couple guys that have aluminum boats for the river in winter months and have glass boats for the summer months.

AS far as brands of boats, everyone has their own opinion. Some like Lund, some like G3, some like Alumacraft etc., myself I like starcraft that is my opinion. A lot of manufacturers make good boats, I believe your choice would be well made as to your style of fishing and your specific needs in a boat, if its all fishing or you like a fish and ski combo etc..

As far as hull construction is concerned I love the high and dry smooth ride I get with my 19 degree hull on my Starcraft. I do not think you can get a better boat dollar for dollar then a Starcraft. I fish Lake Erie during the summer months and the lower Niagara River during the winter months. My boat is a 2003 and has no leak's and no problems from adverse conditions.

As far as ruggedness and taking a beating, I have seen a lot of glass boats crack on Erie, case in point The Bass-masters Tournaments on Erie. I have personally seen the cracks on boats including Triton's, Ranger's and other's. Granted these guys run hard with a lot of money at stake, but the fact remains that glass boats do have their limitations as well as any other boat.

AS far as Aluminum boats, I prefer riveted to welded hulls because of the flex afforded to riveted construction, without flex there is cracks. When aluminum is welded I feel it get brittle around the weld from the heat associated with welding and when it is brittle it cracks under stress. As the old saying goes airplanes are riveted Aluminum not welded and not fiberglass for the reason of flex and durability.

I think it all boils down to personal preference and what style fishing you do

[Wall-i-Lama]

Drag, Buy a boat, any boat. Aluminum, glass or wood and go fishing. Enjoy!

[T.N.R.]

I just wanted to clear up the misconception of North River pricing amongst us. They are not as expensive as one would think. A 21' Seahawk with the offshore bracket, 200 HPDI Yamaha, 9.9 -4 stroke kicker, integrated steering, remote controls and tilt & trim for both motors, along with other options is less than $50K. One without as many options would be cheaper yet.

[DW]

Drag's questions in the original post are not about fiberglass vs Aluminum. The questions are about double plating, and weld vs rivet construction.

To that question I bought a welded boat design for one reason. After reading this and other forums the incidence of rivet failure to weld failure was and is not even close. Consistently, owners with riveted boats report leaking or failure at a much high rate than those who report weld failures. Considering the uneven manufacturer response to warranty claims, this is a significant factor in boat preference.

[beeman]

There was one on ebay brand new 18 foot, no motor. I bid on that sucker up to 9k ended up selling close to 14k without any accessories. That was a bargain. Would be my dream boat in deep V version. All the west coast salmon boats pretty stout stiff. If you baby your rig like i do starcraft is fine rig.

[eye4aneye]

Let me jump in . . . There's not enough posts on this thread.

Let me say, I don't know a thing about the welded hull tanks like Hewes craft so keep that in mind, but;

If I were buying an aluminum boat for walleye fishing, I would only consider a Lund Pro V. I won't go into all of the reasons why but there are many.

If I had to recommend a fiberglass boat, Ranger and Warrior would be preference. Ranger for a jig fisherman or bow fishing guy, Warrior for a troller/baitfisherman and routinely rough and windy conditions.

I own glass but would buy a Pro V in a heartbeat if my priorities change a bit.

[Miami Vice]

Eye4 aneye
I agree with you 100%. You win the award for the most common sense on this thread. I have been boating long before there were things like “Walleye Central”. Back in those days getting unbiased opinions was hard to come by. I had to read every boating magazine cover to cover, and talk to dozens and dozens of people at launch ramps to get their opinions.
I follow many sites like “Walleye Central”, and what I look for is trends. I discard about 10% of the posts, because someone has an ax to grind, or has misinformation. From the remaining 90% of the posts, I make mental notes of what recommendations come up over and over again. On this site I see hundreds of recommendations for Ranger and Warrior glass boats, and hundreds of recommendations for Lunds.
So if I had money burning a hole in my pocket and had to buy a boat quickly, I would just spend one day looking at “Walleye Central”, and I would end up buying a Lund, Ranger or Warrior and I couldn’t go wrong. Even if I didn’t like the boat, and sold it a year later, I wouldn’t have trouble selling it.
Now as far as the debate between glass vs. tin, I’m sure Eye4aneye would agree with me, that if money was no object I would have one tin boat, and one glass boat to have the best of both worlds.
If I couldn’t afford two boats, I see no reason why I wouldn’t go back and forth between tin and glass over the years, depending on what my needs at the time.
I don’t own a Lund, Warrior or Ranger boat, nor have I ever owned any of these brands. Of course there are a lot of other find brands out there. All I’m saying is the internet, and sites like “Walleye Central” are a great educational tool to give you information to make a “safe” choice without getting hurt.
Miami Vice

[Miami Vice]

Rebs
Since my dream boat is a 19’ Starcraft 196 Fisherman, and I hope to own one some day, I agree with your choice of a Starcraft boat with a 19 degree deadrise.
Deadrise on a boat is everything. The more deadrise, the better the ride. And I speak from experience because I had a glass boat for 14 years with a 24 degree deadrise, and I had another glass boat for 5 years with a 20 degree deadrise.
Boats with a big deadrise are gas hogs, and will always burn more gas. But since gas is only 10% of the cost of ownership of having a boat, it’s a small price to pay for a smooth , luxurious ride.
I got tired of having glass boats here in Miami Beach, because the sun and salt takes a toll on them. I always want my boat to look perfect and look like brand new. In order to keep a glass boat looking in tip top condition, I was spending a fortune on waxing, & detailing it, and it was taking way too much of my time to keep it up.
But I must admit glass boats are coming a long way. The gel coats are improving all the time. I see less and less stress cracks on today’s modern glass boats. Plus the gel coats hold up better over time.
Typically tin boats used to be a 30% lighter than glass boats, but some high end glass boat factories are reducing the weight of glass boats. They are using things like vacuum bagging, Scrimp technology, adding Kevlar and carbon fiber. These new “light” weight glass boats are as strong, or stronger than conventional glass boats. And you are getting all the benefit s of a tin boat like needing a lighter trailer, a smaller tow vehicle to tow it, and a smaller engine on your boat.
Miami Vice

[eye4aneye]

Rebs
Since my dream boat is a 19’ Starcraft 196 Fisherman, and I hope to own one some day, I agree with your choice of a Starcraft boat with a 19 degree deadrise.
Deadrise on a boat is everything. The more deadrise, the better the ride. And I speak from experience because I had a glass boat for 14 years with a 24 degree deadrise, and I had another glass boat for 5 years with a 20 degree deadrise.
Boats with a big deadrise are gas hogs, and will always burn more gas. But since gas is only 10% of the cost of ownership of having a boat, it’s a small price to pay for a smooth , luxurious ride.
I got tired of having glass boats here in Miami Beach, because the sun and salt takes a toll on them. I always want my boat to look perfect and look like brand new. In order to keep a glass boat looking in tip top condition, I was spending a fortune on waxing, & detailing it, and it was taking way too much of my time to keep it up.
But I must admit glass boats are coming a long way. The gel coats are improving all the time. I see less and less stress cracks on today’s modern glass boats. Plus the gel coats hold up better over time.
Typically tin boats used to be a 30% lighter than glass boats, but some high end glass boat factories are reducing the weight of glass boats. They are using things like vacuum bagging, Scrimp technology, adding Kevlar and carbon fiber. These new “light” weight glass boats are as strong, or stronger than conventional glass boats. And you are getting all the benefit s of a tin boat like needing a lighter trailer, a smaller tow vehicle to tow it, and a smaller engine on your boat.
Miami Vice

Deadrise in a glass boat vs deadrise in a tin walleye boat are two entirely different things. Those glass boats have molded in sponsons or hulls shaped to minimize roll. This isn't possible with aluminum. I had a Starcraft SF for a couple years. It was a nice boat and easily the smoothest riding aluminum boat I've owned but when drifting or not underway, threw you around like a pea in a bowl. Mabe the 20 footers are better? I don't know but I would try one out before I bought one.

[Miami Vice]

Yes deep V boats are tender. Having a full 8 1/2 foot bean helps a lot with the rolling. Since fiberglass boats can be easily molded into almost any shape you can do more work on the chimes, to cut down on rolling.
Lund has done a lot of work in recent years with modifying and improving the shape of their chimes to cut down rolling.
If I had a choice I would rather have a deeper V to cut through the waves, even if the deeper V rolls more than a modified V.
Miami Vice

[beeman]

Deep V is way to go, fishmaster is one best. Sure if your tourny fishing every week the bass style may spook a few less fish but does not ride as well in 3 foot waves. My front picks up high rides right over every wave ive encountered. I would not trade for any other boat except maybe newer crestliner or lund. Layout is fanfricken tastic on fishmaster most fishable boat ive been in. No one catches more fish than I. Comp boat would be northriver salmon style boat that very fishable machine!

[onawhim]

I've had Crestliner since 2000 w/Honda. Fish lakes in southeast KY (rocks eveywhere and lake levels are alway changing) Beached on submerged rocks several times, broke several props, but never had hull damage.
P.S. all without kell guard