Deer Management

[Sportdog]

I just finished reading a very heated debate on another web site over deer management issues. Most of it centered on shooting or not shooting spikes and forkhorn bucks. There seems to exist two basic schools of thought. On one side you have the guys that profess to be meat hunters and will take any age or sex of deer, most choosing not to take six month deer. On the other side are the trophy or QDMA guys who advocate not shooting any spikes or forkhorns, only 4 points to a side or better, and taking a doe for every buck that you shoot. My personal take on this issue got me a good spanking from some of the posters. Here is the crux of what I said. My standards as far as what I choose to attempt to take is based for the most part on the property that I have the chance to hunt on. I have taken does, but I am somewhat old school where you should not take does because they are your future buck producers. When I was scratching for places to hunt, poor habitat meant few deer. Some of these places you would be lucky to even see a deer or two the whole season. When I hunted those fringe properties, I would take the first adult deer that I could get my crosshairs on. I was skunked at one point for five consecutive years. I now own my own very small hunting parcel and have gotten a lot more picky. I had a spike, a forkhorn, and two does walk in by the scrap I have been setting up on every three or four days, and did not even consider drawing on them, even though these deer will most likely not get a pass on the surounding properties. So I guess that my approach to which are the "right" deer is based on the property that I am hunting. How about you guys? What are your "standards" and why?

[Suzuki]

Your right. There are so many variables. Normally the places I hunt in the north do not have a lot of deer so If I want venison I may have to take what I see. Many times that's a forkhorn. So what. In my opinion forks are a visible tag idicating an animal almost full grown but still very tender.
I dont see herds of does. The very few I see need to live and reproduce.
If someone wants to trophy hunt they should buy enough land, join a club or hire an outfitter someplace that has them. They have no business dictating their policy on public land.
What I have witnessed in the midwest the last decade is a deer management policy that reduced the herd significantly. To the point that shooting does only compounds the issue of low numbers. Of course this varies by area somewhat but for the most part there is not the same number of deer.
Two weeks ago I'm sitting in a bar and this couple were going on and on complaining about people shooting small deer next to their property. Their example was of some young adults that shot a 9-pointer giving high-fives. This couple was upset because they say the deer was only 2.5 years old. They disgusted me.
Hunters dont control the destiny of deer. The DNR does.
Shooting deer principly for their large horns is vanity. Since when did that sin become openly acceptable?????
Long story short-if its legal its your choice. Elitists be dammed.

[jig-n-eyes]

I would have to say the only way we can call anything deer managment is if you own 3000 acrs or more, other then that all deer will go were they please, I for one enjoy the sport of Archery deer hunting and been doing so for over 15yrs now w/ 1 year unsucsefull. In all them years I have shot several non-trophy deer. I would have to say everyone in this area has become more selective on what they shoot vrs past years. I have had serveral opportunities to shoot 2-3yr old bucks this year but I have 5 trophyson the wall bigger so it is going to have to be a Monster before I launch the arrow. I for one would like to harvest a doe or 2 instead of a small buck for the simple fack of taste. Bottom Line is if there are people getting mad at other people about what they have selected to shoot then they should offer to let them come on there land to harvest a buck that they would call a managment buck or trophy, LOL now what have they got to say. Good Luck, Hunt hard, Hunt safe, and Take a child to the woods and let them enjoy by shooting the Spike or forky.

[Stu]

Suzuki, you stated;

"Shooting deer principly for their large horns is vanity. Since when did that sin become openly acceptable?????"

Since when did trophy hunting become a sin? Also Sportdog never mentioned anything about public land. We hunters are at our best when we place conservation as our 1st priority. Like it or not, antler restrictions work. They allow small bucks to grow into potential trophies, while meat hunters are still able to shoot does and button bucks to fill their freezer.
I am fortunate enough to be able to hunt my own property. I usually shoot a doe early in the season and then I spend the rest of the season chasing trophies. I don't criticize anyone that shoots a small buck, but I never understood why you would take a potential trophy out of the woods when you could shoot a doe. Unless of course, it's the only deer you've seen. Just my $.02

[Suzuki]

We all think differently and as long we follow the law our approach to deer hunting is absolutely correct for each of us individually.

[Sportdog]

Since when did trophy hunting become a sin? Also Sportdog never mentioned anything about public land. We hunters are at our best when we place conservation as our 1st priority. Like it or not, antler restrictions work.
I don't believe that trophy hunting is a sin and do not condemn those who take the sport seriously and hunt within the limits of the law. I really don't know what you mean when you say that I never mentioned anything about public land. When I used the term "properties", that included both public and private "property". There is very little public property that can be hunted where I live and it is extremely heavily hunted. That being said a couple of my biggest bucks were taken on public land. I have no problem that QDMA works to increase antler size but I don't think that it is the only way to manage deer herds. For many hunters, myself included, some seasons that spike, forkhorn, or even a doe IS a trophy. It just depends on the size and make-up, and access to hunting properties.

[RAW]

The management of a deer population sould be gased on good science to provide a healthy sustainable heard. Now we need good managers to apply the science on both public and private land.
PA changed the management practices a few years ago. I recall the group that argued that leaving spikes and 4 pts would ruin the genetic pool and ruin potential. This has not been the case. If a spike or fork horn is spotted I notice it is a smaller body deer. The management plan was to reduce the heard size to allow the low browse to return. It took two seasons of increased doe tags to nearly wipe out the population on public land. The undergrowth has returned. I stoped shooting does in areas that I feel the population is too low.I share my veiws with others hunting the same areas but not in a condeming way. The goal was to bring the balance of adult bucks and does to 50/50. Science tells us that this is a healthy ratio. My non-scientific viewings of deer shows me that we have roo few adult does in the ridges around my home. my results show 2.5 bucks for each adult doe.
At this stage in my hunting life, I have little intrest of shooting another scrub buck. Can we hae a sucessful hunt by letting a young buck walk past your stand at 20 yards? Well, I guess we can't eat a memory or a picture...... What about those that hunt only for the meat. Truth is that if true cost of a pound of a harvested deer is figured, we all can save money money and go to the grocery store. If someone is able to save money shooting and eating deer, they either live in a southern state with liberal harvest limits or are poaching.

[orchard frank]

With so many interests and groups having different goals, this will always be a tough subject. What is desirable for one group, conflicts with others. Weekend hunters with limited time and access often just want a deer, period. That was me for most of my life. Truth was I was just not an avid hunter, enjoyed it, but fishing always won for any extra vacation time. One area near a vacation home was frustrating due to private versus public on doe permits. Private right across the road could get them, I would watch lots of them go by, couldn't get a permit. Very serious hunters, many with time and access to private land/camps want to manage for larger bucks, balanced herds. I don't completely buy the "science" arguments, I see these programs as some science with a dose of agenda mixed in unless they agree to 1 buck a year, period, regardless of method. For the guy who has the abilities, time and location to harvest 2-3 trophy bucks a year to tell the weekender he should pass on a forkie--c'mon. I now live in the middle of great deer country, my orchard/farm is loaded with them. We pass on smaller bucks, but we are in a lucky situation, and I can get all the doe permits I want. Talk to most guys trying to make a living farming, their opinion is often "big rats with hoofs". Mix in insurance companies, and their political weight, DNR and state monetary concerns, and everyone just sit down and agree to one goal, one plan. Tough assignment. We had fresh tenderloins last night, life is good. It's all about enjoyment.

[went522]

I'm a meat hunter till I get a few on the ground, then I'll wait for a good buck. Been a few seasons I let does and smaller bucks walk early in the season..."I'll see more this year!!" Then don't see another deer, that won't happen to me again. Get a few hanging so I have my pepper sticks, burger, sausage and brats. Once that's done I'll work on the wall hanger and let the smaller deer walk.

With the above said, I truely enjoy venison. The entire process of going from making the good shot to making food that most wouldn't be able to tell is even venison is what it's about for me.

To each their own as far as what they want to shoot. "Trophy"...what's a trophy? Every deer I've shot is a trophy in my mind and I'm thankful for the opportunity to have harvested those animals. No one should be able to dictate what a trophy or quality deer is to any other individual...to each their own. The QDM advocates only want guys like me to wait on larger deer so THEY have more opportunity to put antlers on the wall....selfish really. To tell me I HAVE to wait for large deer just so they have more opportunity is simply wrong.

BIRDDOG