None magnification or not?

[stinkycat]

Just a quick poll weather you think muzzleloader deer hunters should be allowed to use magnified scopes or that they have to stick with the current laws in MN, ND & WI and only use a "none" magnified scope.


My view is that the better I can see, the better I can shoot. My eyes are to the point that I can not see the rear sight and the front sight and still keep it all in focus for a good shot. I currently use a none magnified scope but would love to use a 4x or 6x scope.

[Suzuki]

I only voted no because muzzle loader season around here was established for traditional weapons. Knda between rifle and bow. With modern day ML's equiped with scope it is nothing more than a secondary rifle season.

[stinkycat]

I only voted no because muzzle loader season around here was established for traditional weapons. Knda between rifle and bow. With modern day ML's equiped with scope it is nothing more than a secondary rifle season.

Suzuki, I see your point but.... I now know at least 25 guys personally and no one uses a flint lock. In my 10+ years muzzleloader hunting I have yet to run into anyone that is not using a modern muzzleloader. I am sure there are some guys that like using the traditional equipment but I, or my circle of contacts, have not seen them. I think it would be a safe bet that at least 95% of muzzleloader hunters are not with flint lock but with modern weapons. Also, with that train of thought should not the archer hunters go back to using hand made long bows? Just playing devils advocate.

[Suzuki]

I hear ya. Technology is always advancing and everyone likes to have an edge. As long as deer numbers are managed properly then I suppose it doesnt matter that much. Still those new ML's are so fine I see the TV guys use them for everything at every range. Better than my ought-six! lol

[PowderHorn]

I hear ya. Technology is always advancing and everyone likes to have an edge. As long as deer numbers are managed properly then I suppose it doesnt matter that much. Still those new ML's are so fine I see the TV guys use them for everything at every range. Better than my ought-six! lol

I think that should be left to the Hunter. Not the Politicians. Iron sights, as well as scopes, have been around forever. To each they're own, in the woods.. Ethical shot's, should allow the BEST USE of AVAILABLE EQUIPMENT.. Traditional, is just that, iron sights are good to Vast distances, if yer eye's, will allow... Mine, do not.. I have put Ivory, and Gold on the Face of my front Sight, still, the Light leaves Quickly..

[fireboat]

Suzuki, I see your point but.... I now know at least 25 guys personally and no one uses a flint lock. In my 10+ years muzzleloader hunting I have yet to run into anyone that is not using a modern muzzleloader. I am sure there are some guys that like using the traditional equipment but I, or my circle of contacts, have not seen them. I think it would be a safe bet that at least 95% of muzzleloader hunters are not with flint lock but with modern weapons. Also, with that train of thought should not the archer hunters go back to using hand made long bows? Just playing devils advocate.

I hunt with a bow, a compound bow with a fiber optic sight. Is it fair compared to a traditional bow? I don't care because I hit what I shoot at. I also Elk hunt with a rifle, guess what, it has a scope on it. Fair? Or should I use iron sights? The only thing the state cares about is the cash. That's why there are multiple seasons. Not a season to harvest the deer but several seasons to harvest the deer hunters cash. If there were only 1 deer season with a weapon of choice, the deer would still be harvested but the state wouldn't make as much money. I would rather see one in my freezer than roadkill. They are a renewable resource.

[AllenW]

I voted no, I doubt the sprirt of the law envisioned muzzleloading to go high tech, that's why a seperate season.

If you want to leave it up to the hunter, remove muzzleloading and make it just a firearms season.

Al

[stinkycat]

I voted no, I doubt the sprirt of the law envisioned muzzleloading to go high tech, that's why a seperate season.

If you want to leave it up to the hunter, remove muzzleloading and make it just a firearms season.

Al


We can extend your reasoning to bow hunting. When the original bow hunting was started I would doubt that there were any compound bows around yet. I would think all they had to use was a long bow or recurve. Also, what about mechanical releases? Mechanical releases were not originally legal in MN but now they are, because they allow the bow hunter to be more accurate which hopefully ends up with a cleaner kill.

Traditionalists in muzzleloader hunting are almost none-existent. I have been hunting with black powder for over 10 years and have never run into another hunter using a flint lock weapon. All hunters I have encountered were using the more modern in-line muzzleloaders.

The effective range of a muzzleloader is still 150yrds max (1 shot) weather you have a magnified scope or not. The effective range of a modern compound bow is 30 to 50 yrds (1 shot). The effective range of high powered rifles are obviously considerably more with multiple shots. Both the archer and single-shot 150yrd muzzleloaders still have a very significant disadvantage compared to the rifle hunter, of which there should be, but to handy cap the visual ability to place the most accuracy shot possible makes no sense. IMHO

[Chad]

If they are going to allow the modern muzzleloader then they should allow scopes. You still only get one shot and have a limited range.

[Sportdog]

In most cases I think that the type of weapon allowed has much to do with the intent of the DNR to balance the resource (number of deer), with the maximum amount of days in the field available for we hunters. The archery early season lets hunters "hunt" with the lower number of participants and less pressure on the deer. The general firearms season thins the herd but puts tremendous pressure on the deer so when muzzleloading season rolls around you are going to find pretty tough hunting, especially for bucks. Here in Michigan we have no restrictions on types of sights which I think is good. Clean kills are the goal and good sight systems help this happen.

[Johnman]

All too often we ignore the spirit of "the law". A slug gun, even the best of the best, has limited capabilities. The shotgun practical range is 125 yards max. If you are shooting beyond that range regularly or at all, you lack wisdom. If you can't see purty dern good out to 125 yards without a scope, I suggest you see an optomitrist. If that is not an option because you are legally blind, you don't belong in the hunting field.

[stinkycat]

All too often we ignore the spirit of "the law". A slug gun, even the best of the best, has limited capabilities. The shotgun practical range is 125 yards max. If you are shooting beyond that range regularly or at all, you lack wisdom. If you can't see purty dern good out to 125 yards without a scope, I suggest you see an optomitrist. If that is not an option because you are legally blind, you don't belong in the hunting field.

Obviously you are stirring the pot or you are young and ignorant to vision issues when one gets a little older.

Its not a matter of seeing out to 125yrds, its a matter of seeing both the rear & front sights clearly enough to get an accurate shot. The whole issue here is as Sportdog said "Clean kills are the goal and good sight systems help this happen".

By the way, there are numerous hunts that are put on for the handicapped hunter, including the legally blind!

[walleyefreak]

I voted yes. I have several muzzeloaders ranging from both a flint-lock and a percussion cap gun, both with open iron sights, to a new modern in line that uses the 209 primers with a Leupold 3-9 scope on it.

If the law allows you to use these devices it doesn't mean you are forced to use them. If you want to hunt with a flint-lock and open sights in black powder season more power to you. Just because the law is written to allow new modern muzzeloaders and scopes doesn't mean you can't use your older weapon if you want to. Regardless of the optics allowed you still only have one shot with a much reduced range over a center fire rifle. I say use the best weapons you can to reduce any chance of a crippled or maimed animal.

Just my $0.02 worth.

WF

[Johnman]

Obviously you are stirring the pot or you are young and ignorant to vision issues when one gets a little older.

Its not a matter of seeing out to 125yrds, its a matter of seeing both the rear & front sights clearly enough to get an accurate shot. The whole issue here is as Sportdog said "Clean kills are the goal and good sight systems help this happen".

By the way, there are numerous hunts that are put on for the handicapped hunter, including the legally blind!

Don't get huffy with me.

Get a peep sight or a ghost ring. You'll see both front and rear sights just fine. Regardless of the sights used, clean kills first and foremost start with judgement calls from the individual hunter. How far will a impaired hunter "stretch" the law and the distance shot to get that deer? There's already too many slobs in the field every year being disrespectful to the land and land owners as well as wasting the resource. If you are not one of those, then God Bless you. Of course, nobody ever thinks they are "one of them".

[AllenW]

Don't get huffy with me.

Get a peep sight or a ghost ring. You'll see both front and rear sights just fine. Regardless of the sights used, clean kills first and foremost start with judgement calls from the individual hunter. How far will a impaired hunter "stretch" the law and the distance shot to get that deer? There's already too many slobs in the field every year being disrespectful to the land and land owners as well as wasting the resource. If you are not one of those, then God Bless you. Of course, nobody ever thinks they are "one of them".


I'll wait till bifocals are required for you then ask you to repeat that statement, I think you'll change your mind.
Unless of course you think us old farts shouldn't hunt?

So the blind and handicapped are slobs????
Try going over to the Vets homes and say that.

No offense, but I hope as you get older you grow up a bit.

Al

[stinkycat]

I'll wait till bifocals are required for you then ask you to repeat that statement, I think you'll change your mind.
Unless of course you think us old farts shouldn't hunt?

So the blind and handicapped are slobs????
Try going over to the Vets homes and say that.

No offense, but I hope as you get older you grow up a bit.

Al

AllenW.....:rockit: