View Full Version : When to listen to your wife/your dog/your Dr.
walteye
12-26-2009, 01:25 PM
Christmas was a beuatiful day at our house-we went to church and came home. We decided we were going to take some pictures all dressed up in front of the tree. The ones with my wife and me came out gorgeous and MY WIFE pulled out antlers to put on my German Sheperd that she picked up. She said he would look cute and I said "No way". She persisted and I relented. My German Shepherd said "no way". My wife persisted, my German Shephard said "NO Way". I tried again and since I was the closest-this time my German Shepherd said " NO WAY " in a way that he was going to make sure I understood.
The doctors and nurses at the Emergency Room are very nice on Christmas.
Stitches inside and outside my right hand with internal bleeding in the hand. Must keep it raised over my heart to keep the swelling down.
The pictures of my wife and me came out great.
Walteye
Hawker
12-26-2009, 01:43 PM
I think I'd start listening to the dog "first" from here on out!! What a way to end an otherwise great day!!
PS: Have the "antlers" made it into the trash yet?
Sluggo / NY
12-26-2009, 02:04 PM
Hey Walt.. Merry Christmas! I'm trying not to laugh too hard.. since I did almost the exact same thing! My stitches are out and the black nail is almost grown out now. Hope you guys have a great New Year! Chris
If you had filmed it on funniest home videos you might have paid the doctor.
fireboat
12-26-2009, 05:31 PM
If my dog bit me he would be looking for a new home. We have 2 & 3 yr old grandchildren at our house often, I couldn't trust a dog that bites the hand that feeds him. I've had hunting dogs for over 45yrs and ya a couple of them bit me or the kids. Those dogs didn't get a second chance to bite again. I can replace the dog but I couldn't replace my kids eye. Good luck with your dog.
Pokey Fisherman
12-26-2009, 05:42 PM
You came out ahead on that one. Just think of the doctor bills if you tried to put them on your wife!:bangin:
Further North
12-26-2009, 06:27 PM
If my dog bit me he would be looking for a new home. We have 2 & 3 yr old grandchildren at our house often, I couldn't trust a dog that bites the hand that feeds him. I've had hunting dogs for over 45yrs and ya a couple of them bit me or the kids. Those dogs didn't get a second chance to bite again. I can replace the dog but I couldn't replace my kids eye. Good luck with your dog.
...the key to this is when the dog says "no way", stop.
Otherwise it's kinda like "It all started when he hit me back!"
Mr.Seaguar
12-26-2009, 06:47 PM
People who keep dogs that bite deserve what they get. Problem is, its usually someone else that gets it.
Further North
12-26-2009, 07:14 PM
People who push otherwise stable dogs until they bite deserve what they get.
There's a whole world of difference between an dog that bites aggressively, one that bites out of fear or one that bites in defense.
Blaming a dog for a problem the owner created is just plain dumb. Not acknowledging the real cause of the problem and taking control of the situation and participating in an effective corrective action is even dumber.
I've trained hunting dogs for 40+ years and only had one problem dog in this regard...I have a good friend whose Schutzenhund German Sheppards are trained to bite...but are otherwise sweet, even tempered and docile as puppies.
I have not had one for many years. Have been bit by lab and 30 seconds later it is my best friend.
Find out what triggered the bite. Mutts can be smarter than us sometimes..
As the owner of the lab that took a chunk out of me said , "our dogs are good judges of character"
I had just given him a 44 mag to take to Alaska. Good timing.
maxxum
12-26-2009, 09:44 PM
Your first impression was correct. Your wife persisted. Unfortunately you got the short end of the stick. You can't beat the wife. You shouldn't beat the dog. I say grab a bottle of "your favorite pain-killer" and ring in the new year.
that seems funny but in reality I think the dog bit you in self defense
I hope you weren't too hard on the dog. I know a dog should never bite the hand that feeds him, however in this case I think you just pushed him too far
without being there myself I don't know the whole story or all the events, so I don't know if I could trust the dog not to bite again or not.
AllenW
12-27-2009, 07:09 AM
People who push otherwise stable dogs until they bite deserve what they get.
There's a whole world of difference between an dog that bites aggressively, one that bites out of fear or one that bites in defense.
Blaming a dog for a problem the owner created is just plain dumb. Not acknowledging the real cause of the problem and taking control of the situation and participating in an effective corrective action is even dumber.
I've trained hunting dogs for 40+ years and only had one problem dog in this regard...I have a good friend whose Schutzenhund German Sheppards are trained to bite...but are otherwise sweet, even tempered and docile as puppies.
Exactly, any dog will bite if pushed far enough, those who have dogs should know this and deal accordingly, if you harass your dog to no end and if the dog finally bites, its not the dogs fault its yours.
A dog that bites for no apparent reason is another matter.
Would have made a nice picture though, least wises if there wasn't blood all over....:)
Glad to hear it wasn't to serious.
Al
walteye
12-27-2009, 12:13 PM
Just a note-my German Shepherd is 11 1/2 years old-and this is the first time that he has bit me or anyone else. When I got married 18 months ago my wife brought her cat to this house-my Shepherd gets whacked in the face by the cat if he gets too close(the cat is declawed) and has not even growled at him. It is true-I pressed the issue with my puppy and deserved what I got. He doesn't know what he can do because he NEVER uses his power. My dog laid at my feet when I was washing out the wound-I never even raised my voice to him, I just walked out of the room.
And yes-the antlers are history!
Shellback
12-27-2009, 12:45 PM
Ah Ha, You brought a cat into his home! I'd a bit you too! :grin: LOL! Hope you heal up soon and everything is forgotten.
walteye
12-27-2009, 01:22 PM
I do want to say thank you and Merry Christmas to all those that posted. I do have to say that those who took my post as a laugh (as i did), just as you would a good friend-thank you even more. Those thattook it too seriously-I am more afraid of you than of my dog.
You are shortening your lives more by your worries then by what a dog adds.
Walteye and Shadow (my beloved German Shepherd)
vetspet.ind
12-27-2009, 02:05 PM
If my dog bit me he would be looking for a new home. We have 2 & 3 yr old grandchildren at our house often, I couldn't trust a dog that bites the hand that feeds him. I've had hunting dogs for over 45yrs and ya a couple of them bit me or the kids. Those dogs didn't get a second chance to bite again. I can replace the dog but I couldn't replace my kids eye. Good luck with your dog.
ditto fireboat...no way yu should ever keep this dog...next one will be your kids or grandkids....read my lips....i deal with this daily...it's coming....steve
vetspet.ind
12-27-2009, 02:09 PM
...the key to this is when the dog says "no way", stop.
Otherwise it's kinda like "It all started when he hit me back!"
sorry further north...my dog does not rule my home....if my dog says "no way" stop....i will be 100% certain to take it to the next level...if he bit me, i'd take it to the final level....period...i'm the boss...my dog will not bite me...i dont abuse any pets, but i am top dog in my home..next is my wife and kids...dog is way down on this list and i'm a veterinarian
vetspet.ind
12-27-2009, 02:12 PM
that seems funny but in reality I think the dog bit you in self defense
I hope you weren't too hard on the dog. I know a dog should never bite the hand that feeds him, however in this case I think you just pushed him too far
without being there myself I don't know the whole story or all the events, so I don't know if I could trust the dog not to bite again or not.
no way he pushed his dog too hard....the only one who thinks this is his dog because his dog thinks he is in charge...and if he doesnt put this dog down, then the dog will bite again until he makes himself the person in c harge....this dog is a time bomb...period...seen it hundreds of times....most often this family will never re-establish who is in charge after the first bite...and his dog was not messing around....beware of this one pal
vetspet.ind
12-27-2009, 02:17 PM
Exactly, any dog will bite if pushed far enough, those who have dogs should know this and deal accordingly, if you harass your dog to no end and if the dog finally bites, its not the dogs fault its yours.
A dog that bites for no apparent reason is another matter.
Would have made a nice picture though, least wises if there wasn't blood all over....:)
Glad to hear it wasn't to serious.
Al
so allen...let me get this straight...if your dog growls when you try to trim his nails or brush his coat, he has a license to bite you...that is exactly what your reply says to me...even tho clipping nails or brushing him is for his own good..remember he does not know that clipping nails is any different than putting a silly antler on him....in each case he does not want the owner to do a specific thing..he has no logic to know the difference...just that in each case he does not want a specific thing done...so he bites...and he is a dangerous breed of dog to bite as the evidence (emergency room visit) testifies....this dog was not being "pushed far enough"...in my opinion that would encompass such things as abuse, kicking dog, etc...this was not going too far..no way...the dog thinks it owns this family...pure and simple
Further North
12-27-2009, 02:39 PM
sorry further north...my dog does not rule my home....if my dog says "no way" stop....i will be 100% certain to take it to the next level...if he bit me, i'd take it to the final level....period...i'm the boss...my dog will not bite me...i dont abuse any pets, but i am top dog in my home..next is my wife and kids...dog is way down on this list and i'm a veterinarian
That's a good way to ruin a perfectly good dog.
Don't take this wrong, and I'm sure it's not true in your case, but over 40 years and helping dozens and dozens of people with their dogs, veterinarians were some of the worst trainers I ever encountered.
Because of their status as "animal experts" I found them unwilling to listen, and unwilling to finesse the situation in a spot like this. They tended to be excellent technicians, or had a tendency to treat finesse situation 'by the numbers" but less than flexible on the animal psychology side.
I can only think of a couple who were top notch trainers.
You have an 11 1/2 year old dog with no previous indication of aggression. You want to watch things very carefully for a while, and if nothing else happens, let it go. Caution is indicated, not drastic action.
Further North
12-27-2009, 02:40 PM
I do want to say thank you and Merry Christmas to all those that posted. I do have to say that those who took my post as a laugh (as i did), just as you would a good friend-thank you even more. Those thattook it too seriously-I am more afraid of you than of my dog.
You are shortening your lives more by your worries then by what a dog adds.
Walteye and Shadow (my beloved German Shepherd)
Walteye - give Shadow a big hug for me.
Texeye
12-27-2009, 03:00 PM
I'm with Vet on this one...it will happen again and the older the dog gets the greater the chances. This is something you cannot take out of a dog once it has begun. You might in some cases make a dog where it won't mess with you again but it will eventually get someone else. The sad thing is,it doesn't matter how much we love them.
Further North
12-27-2009, 03:11 PM
I can think of several cases to contrary. More, in fact, than where the dire predictions on this thread come true.
Since this is clearly one of those topics where we are just going to have to agree to disagree, I will back out unless I see some new direction come up.
fireboat
12-27-2009, 04:06 PM
30 yrs in the Fire Rescue service I've seen too many "good" dogs bite people. The ones you never forget are the kids, 1 fatality, several with life long scars to their face and neck. I'm not trying to judge you or anyone else that owns a dog, I am not a dog trainer either. But if you own a dog that is a "known" biter and that dog rips your grandchild's eye out or rips your neighbor kids face off you will have to live with that forever. The sad part is that it could have been prevented. This not saying that a normally calm couldn't snap at some time in it's life, but now the red flag has been raised. Rule #1, you give every dog one bite---period.
vetspet.ind
12-27-2009, 08:19 PM
i never claimed to be a behaviorist, not trainer....and i agree most of us vets are poor trainers ...incl me!....that is why i leave most of these problems go w/o responses....but what i will tell you is i have 35 yrs of experience which is far more years than almost all trainers and i see more dogs than any behaviorist/trainer in 35 yrs...so let me just tell you the facts...not based on any warm fuzzy trainer books etc....i have seen many many such instances and altho some and maybe many of these dogs can be worked with and made safer...not one true behaviorist out there would guarantee this dog wont bite again and the odds that a dog that bites once will bite again are much higher than the odds that a dog which has never bitten will bite the first time....you put a thread on here and many of the responses thought it was funny or that you deserved the bite....those are the responses you should be addressing....do you know how many times we vets hear the statement " its not the breed but how you raise a dog" that makes all the difference.... ask any vet and they will tell you how silly that statement is when we do work with dogs every day and in many ways we are experts on dog behavior altho we may not always give the answers owners of clients want to hear...how many times have i heard when a child gets bitten in the face for doing something like pulling on a dogs ears or merely getting near his food dish and the owners will say ..." he deserved to get bit...he pulled on rover's ear".....too many times to count....so you can listen to your tv trainers and i hope it goes well, but i will stick to my guns on any dog that bites when not truly provoked...you did nothing to deserve the bite...you invaded his territory and he let you know it....steve
Further North
12-27-2009, 08:38 PM
Steve, well said...I respect your position. You have a ton of experience I lack, and vice versa. Almost by the nature of your profession you are put in a position to only see the problems, so your experience is very accurate. Mine is from the other side of that fence.
What'd be interesting is to collate the sum of our experiences...
Hey...you wouldn't happen to know a lunatic down in Hebron named Mullins, would you? It's a heck of a long shot, but I thought I'd ask...
AllenW
12-28-2009, 06:09 AM
First off, we respond to what we read and assume what's missing, some times for the worse.
We had somebody trying to strap a set of antlers onto a dog, not trimming nails or brushing, something that we assume has been done for years.
This dog is almost 12 years old and you'd assume some obedience training was done, also a past history of the dogs actions.
Key here is past history, dog has gotten along with a new pet in house and evidently along with the wife just fine.
Would I be concerned, sure, but put the dog down?
As it stands, I don't think so.
fwiw I know people in the HVAC field who have 40 years in and I wouldn't let them touch my furnace.
Like Further North says, we'll have to agree we disagree.
Al
vetspet.ind
12-28-2009, 07:15 AM
Good for you.
...have another beer.
i know dr salter down in hebron and she is a great vet from what i hear....is mullins a veterinarian?....
Further North
12-28-2009, 08:07 AM
i know dr salter down in hebron and she is a great vet from what i hear....is mullins a veterinarian?....
No, he's a freelance pharmacist...I'll see if he knows Dr. Salter.
walteye
12-28-2009, 11:51 AM
Although I feel that it is not necessary to defend myself, and that I put myself out there to be the butt of a few jokes at my own expense (and my health plan's)-Does anyone want to see the stitches and the hospital report? BTW-the cut took 2 stitches and was maybe a 1/4 inch long-I bet some of you have gotten longer cuts from the gillplate on a walleye or while shaving yourself!
I laughed at myself for the situation that I put myself in and was glad to share it with some of my friends.
Maybe it is not only me and my dog that are getting a litlle crotchety in our old age!!
Walteye