Walmart sponsors the RCL: yet alot of us are excluded !!!

[RandyG]

The rules for the RCL require the Pro to own a Ranger, Crestliner or Lund boat to participate. That is fine if they were the only sponsors, however, I think Walmart is the major contributor. I am
currently trying to contact Walmart to get their position.

My family spends a lot of money each year at Walmart and Sam's Club
and I think to restrict me, a customer, from the RCL because I use
their products in a Starcraft boat is a little insulting.

What do you think??


Thanks,

Randy

[Concerned]

I think that is a rediculous and myopic approach that could run off a sponsor making a major contribution to our sport. NASCAR's major sponsor is Winston, however you need to own a Ford, Chevy, Pontiac or Dodge to compete. If you want to compete get a RCL product, if you want to go fishing; launch your Starcraft.

[DUDE]

Amen!!!!!!!!!

[Chairman]

While I can not answer for the boat companies, or the other sponsors, you have the option to fish the PWT in your boat or buy one of the RCL brands and come join in the fun. It is meant to be a sales tool for the boat companies and a big leg up for Walleye anglers.
I don't think any negative talk about how it is run or why can't another brand of boat fish will do any of us any good.
Next time you look at a boat, look at one of the RCL brands. They are of equal quality to what your driving now and you can get with us and fish.

I don't have a Yamaha or Evinrude and that might cost me $100,000 this fall, but that is my choice just as the brand of boat you run is yours, I am "Crazy about my Mercury." Most of the events are filled right now and if you want to see how well they are run, sign up as a co-angler and join us.

Chairman
NPAA #6

[TK_551]

If you want to fish the pro side, yes, you will need a Ranger, Lund, or Crestliner. If you fish as a Co-Angler, it does not matter what you have-you will be fishing with a pro out of his/her's R C or L. There are other options. The RCL is not the only circuit out there. Look into PWT, WWA, Midwest Walleye Series, etc. It is up to an individual to choose what the best options are.

Tom
#551

[get over it]

If you are making a stink about something this dumb then you do not fit the mold of the highly respectful RCL competitors. I know I probably would not be able to take an 8 hour day with you on the water if this is what you are like!

[SUPERTROLLER]

I think you should go shop at Kmart and try to find your fishing equipment. I can't find it there. Who cares where you shop? You either want to fish those tournaments or you don't. If you don't want to play by their rules, don't enter. It's pretty simple. Maybe too simple for some to understand.

[mnjimcarp]

Randy, this topic has been hammered to a pulp! i ran a starcraft for a year and was very unhappy about the fact that i could not fish the RCL tourney's. instead of whining and complaining, i bought a LUND! and i could not be happier!!!

[ezmarc]

I went to WalMart today and will probably go back again this week. I fished Co angler with 2 great people(Juls and Keith Esbaugh) and own a Yar Craft with a Merc.

I don't have a problem with the way they run it. Actually I admire the whole concept and loved every second of it! Saginaws next and if I could swing it financially I'd do the other 2 also.

[FROGMAN]

The great thing about our wonderful country is that we are given a wide variety of options in our everyday lives. Just one of which is the choice to fish the RCL, PWT, MWT, MWC, WWA, or any other number of circuits out there.

I choose to fish the In-Fisherman Professional Walleye Trail with the brand of boat I own. I am happy for the poeple that own qualifying boats that they can fish RCL circuit. My friend Jeff Russell just won the Detroit RCL, and I'm very happy for him.

The point is I am glad that we have both of these top notch venues to highlight our wonderful sport, and would hope that any avid walleye angler would welcome them as well.
If you want to fish the RCL then go buy the brand of boat you need.
Both circuits can co-exist, why must everything be "us vs them"?
"Lead, follow, or get out of the way"
Tight lines, and I'll see everybody down in Port Clinton later this week!

Keith Segar
NPAA #260

[rangerstorm]

maybe you should find a new place to do your shopping,K Mart needs the bussiness and you won't have to worry about getting left out of their tournaments,ask them to start a STA tourney (starcraft,tracker,alumacraft)

[cno]

I think a better system would be to start a new tournament and don't let Ranger, Lund or Crestliners enter. That ought to teach them a lesson.

[Answer Man]

Personally I think you need to grow up and quit whining! The RCL is a private entity and has set the rules for anyone to come to their tourney, and win their money. The sponsors that got behind them saw what an opportunity it was to take pro walleye fishing to the next level. Buy and RCL boat, get your boat brand to start their own tourney circuit, or stop whining. This is America, and last time I checked, the RCL is a private enterprise that runs thier events legally. Shut up and fish!

[Ya]

That'll show them, you twit. Yes let any other boat brand start a circuit like this, on their own. It will be accepted with open arms. And I can tell you the RCL anglers wont be as small minded, jealous and bitter as you are. Grow up.

[ScottL]

From the tone of the replys to this post. I think we all need to take two steps back, draw a deep breath and go fishing in whatever boat we own and be happy.

Do I feel excluded because I have a Starcraft? yes a little.

Would I like a R,C, or L boat with a Yamaha, Evinrude? Maybe someday

Do I shop at Walmart? when I'm in the area, but I don't buy much "fishing stuff" there.

Would I like to fish the RCL? I've got a long way to go before I'm that caliber of fisherman.

So for now I'll be happy in my Starcraft, with it Mercury outboard, fishing comfortably with equipment that I bought at a local sporting goods store, not feeling any pressure to have to catch fish, to place high enough to try to ofset my entry fee and help pay for my new boat.:)

I hope everyone enjoys and appreciates their time spent fishing, If you no longer do, you better ask yourself why.

Regards,

Scott Lee

[Fuzzy]

I agree. Running a Starcraft is insulting.

[goodreply]

scott, i totally agree with you. HAVE FUN AND STAY WITHIN YOUR BUDGET CONSTRAINTS. starcraft is a great boat. good luck.

[Why]

Tom, If you want to be a "pro", why must you own one of the RCL boats?

Aren't you guys any good fishing out of other boats?

Really! Think about what you are saying! And you wonder where the "I'm better than you" attitude starts!

When the sport becomes so costly that "any" pro can't participate, then it becomes nothing but an elitist event in which "not all" are truelly professional fisherman or at least not the best.

To be a professional = The people who have the most money to spend.

Not necessarily the best! The sport will suffer, not get better.

(The world of amature ski racing is in the exact same process. The people with the most money to spend on the sport make their way to the sponsorships, but they are not necessarily the best. The US olympic ski team is a good example of that, as every year they fall far short of winning and haven't placed well consistently in the olympics.)

[Reality check]

The last I checked, the boat was not the fisherman, and the fisherman does not make the boat.

So, enjoy your boats, but understand that whatever you own, it does not make anyone any better than the next guy.

[Chad]

Leave your boat at home and fish as a co angler. Quit whinning.

[sib]

Walmart does some questionable things, in my book. This is NOT one of them.

I have a problem with Ya'll Mart replacing good quality American names with their schlocky private label, china products. Then they have the gall to put some WW II vet on the TV talking how American the company is, the poor old guy probably doesn't have a clue what's going on at shelf level.

Sure Ya'll Mart's competition is doing the same thing, but they don't run what, in my opinion, are misleading ads.

Now I've vented my issues with Ya'll Mart and feel much better.

I think if anything, your proposed action would just have the sponsor pull it's support for fishing competition altogether. Your proposed actions are not likely to help your situation and have the potential to damage your fellow anglers.

You have a boat, not everyone does. Should the people without boats, who fish from shore, boycott Walmart, because they don't have a boat to enter ANY tournaments?

[TK_551]

You can be a "Pro" in the PWT or MWC. I own a Lund but my boat is not big enough to fish the RCL. There is rule which states it must be over 17 ft. I have a 16 ft but I am not losing any sleep over it. I also run Evinrude so I can't fish the Merc Nationals. Should I be upset about that? As I said in my earlier post, there are other options other than the RCL.

Tom
#551

[Hogger]

I think you're aiming at the wrong hydrant there big dog. How do you define the term "Owner's Tournament"? The RCL and the M1 are owner's tournaments!!!

I can't fish the Nitro/Tracker tournament so you say I should quit buying from BP? Maybe Skeeter will let me in, I like Texas lakes in the fall?

Seem's to me your gripe is with your manufacturer, Starcraft. Simple solution, get on the phone and tell them to pony up the bucks for an owners tournament. And I don't think you'll have a whole lot of competition, at least numbers wise.

[TRAP]

Hey RandyG, I fished the championship last year of the RCL as a non-boater. It costed me $11,000 by not owning a R C or L boat. Yet when I returned home I wasn't mad about my Tuffy boat in the garage, in fact I was happy. If the boat floats, fish out of it. If you want to compete as a pro in the RCL then you have to follow the rules. Why don't people understand this yet?

[flyman]

They have the right to run their tournament their way. It helps the boat companies to maximize their exposure. That is the choice they make. They do run a risk taking this approach. First, to me, a prospective boat customer, it diminishes the message of the boat sponsors when their boat wins a tournament because the competition has been limited. Second, and this is where you come in, they run the risk of losing good anglers to competitive tournaments. Third, if the first two become a big enough issue, they run the risk of losing "non-boat" sponsorships. These are all trade-offs they choose to make because they feel they gain more from the exclusivity. That's their decision to make.

If you feel slighted, then you have the right to voice your opinion to the other sponsors or enter other tournaments or to buy a new boat. Other sponsors might actually find your feedback valuable (or you may be a lone squeeky wheel). Those are your decisions to make. Don't expect to get the rules changed.

If sponsors decide to drop sponsorship of a particular tournament, be it based on customer feedback or better advertising exposure or whatever, that is their choice to make.

[Dolly]

The next time your in the south (bass country) ask a fisherman what the rcl or pwt is. You probably will get a "huh?". Next ask a northern guy what bass masters is and he probably can tell you. My point is the rcl is good for walleye fishing, it brings more exposer to our sport and lets other people see what they are missing.

[Ralph]

Ranger and Lund are great boats. But, that exclusionary policy limits the field by design and is designed to showcase those boats.

I don't like it. I never knew what RCL stood for. If the sponsors were so confident in their boats, they would want to open - not limit- the field to show how much better they are than their competition.

I'd like to see first hand the seaworthiness and fishability of ALL major manufacturers.

I enjoy watching the In-Fisherman PWT tapes for a lot of reasons. To see how the boats are rigged, how they fish, how they handle nasty conditions and for tactics. If all boats in the field (RCL) are essentially identical (I know there's a difference b/w glass and metal) it makes the viewing that much less enjoyable and valuable.

[Ric]

It is not a matter of having confidence in their boats, it is a matter of marketing.

[Ralph]

To me, how a boat fares against another is good marketing. Eliminating competition is bad marketing, in my book.

[Mr Biz.]

Eliminating competion is "bad marketing"? Huh......?
Wow.... now I am a businessman and have been one all my adult life and would disagree. Eliminating competion would be the absolute epitomy of good marketing! You can eleiminate business by buying them out, or by running them out of business.

And....who would know better than Wal-Mart??????

[Toolman]

Scott,
I'd guess that you have never been to the Wal-Mart just east of Port Clinton. Now that's a great selection of fishing gear!
On the RCL. Yes it seems exclusionary, but this is America. They can run any set of rules that they want. Other manufacturers could band together and do the same. This is probably unlikely, but who knows?
I own another brand of boat, and I like it. So I guess I'll just have to fish the PWT!! (yea right!)
Tim

[Ralph]

You misunderstand my position. I've read Adam Smith- I've been in business all of my adult life and I know about competition and the marketplace.

My position is if a guy is interested in a glass boat, the RCL is not the forum to make a decision.

I have been a consumer my entire life. I, and most everyone else here, will not be swayed or fooled by a manufacturer showcasing their own boats. Sure, Ranger has no competition in the RCL. But is that going to make you want to buy one? Myself, I'd like to see how they fare against other boats.

If a person was in the market for a boat, would he be better off fishing as a non-boater on the old PWT or in the RCL ??? That's my point and that's why the RCL is not as good as an open tourny.

It's also coercive to the all other non RCL boat owners who would like to fish in those tourneys.

[Hawgeye]

Ralph,

You have to understand the entire reason that the RCL was created. It was created solely as an advertising slogan. Sure there are pro's and others competing in an event, but that event is just like the IROC races that exist. Everyone using chevy camaro IROC cars. Boats have nothing to do with the ability of a fisherman, it has to do with getting as many people in the market to buy their product. THAT IS IT!

I do not agree that there is anything remotely wrong with this. Why doesn't Yarcraft and Mercury team up and start the YM circuit? Maybe they will. If they can put up enough money to attract the top pro's and big purses, you will see people purchasing their product to compete and to see what all the fuss is about.

This is marketing 101.

[Jbob]

I agree with jim. I to ran a starcraft for 5 years now i own a lund.

[Fish_on]

Ralph it might help you understand the RCL if you knew that Genmar is the parent company of Ranger, Lund, Crestliner and FLW Outdoors, the company that runs the RCL. It's all owned by one company, and it is marketing genius that makes it all tick.

[Ralph]

Marketing 101 is Ranger v. Ranger.

Marketing 102 is Ranger v. Yarcraft, et al.



Marketing 101 -- manufacturer wins

Marketing 102 -- Consumer wins


I like Marketing 102.

[Scott Richardson]

I don't fish many tournaments at the level of the RCL. I have more fun writing about them. But, as an observer and Ranger owner I do have an opinion, and it is this;

The RCL is a very, very well run tournament trail. It has done much to add to the prestige of walleye fishing in general that began with the MWC and the PWT. Despite early fears to the contrary, I think it has been shown there is room enough for all kinds of walleye trails out there. Also, they must be doing something pretty attractive or people wouldn't be so critical over their inability to take part.

If GenMar Corp., maker of Ranger, Crestliner and Lund, want to have a tournament trail limited solely to their family of boats, that of course if their choice. When the Richardsons have a family reunion, we don't usually invite the Smiths although I am certain the Smiths are very very nice people. That's not what a reunion is about. The RCL is about marketing boats and building excitement about walleye fishing by raising the stakes. The organizers have done quite well at that.

The terrific thing about America is that if someone wants to start a tournament trail that's only open to people who are green with purple polka dots, you can.

There was a thread on here a few days ago asking about reoccuring topics that have been beaten to death. I forgot to add this one.

Scott Richardson

[Chad]

Beat, beat, beat...........is it dead yet?

Beat, beat, beat..........is it dead yet?

...........

[tnt]

"My position is if a guy is interested in a glass boat, the RCL is not the forum to make a decision."

I think the RCL had 68 Glass Rangers, about 20 AL Crestliners, and about 62 AL Lunds. Seems like a good mix of glass and aluminum.

[Big Sky]

I think RALPH is actually STEVE(IL). Just a hunch as we will not know as they are both guest users. ;)

[WAZ]

You folk's must really want to fish the RCL in a bad way. My neighbor had the same itch. He sold his Starcraft and now has a Ranger. He didn"t gripe. Maybe you could get Jessie Jackson to boycott Walmart. Then the RCL tourney would be equal and fair to all Americans.

[BlackSilver]

The NFL is sponsored by Miller and I drink a lot of Miller beer. But the ****ed NFL won't let me play in their games because I don't belong to one of their teams. I'm gonna switch to another brand of beer.

Deal with it.

SET the hook!!!

Hans/MN

[scooter]

My question is what makes a RCL fisherman a better fisherman than lets say the neighbor down the block ? who puts his time on the water. I sure hope it isnt because the RCL pro owns a ranger or lund or a crestliner.
I agree in todays world, companys have to do something to sell there product and this is one way to do it.Unfortunately I dont completly agree with this formula, but it has taken the sport of walleye fishing up a notch and put some lime light on it and it was needed.
I do agree that it should stay with the format it has as far as boats allowed.But the sponsers should perhaps think about have something like the superbowl of walleye fishing.
Have the big championsip RCL and then take the top 10 RCL guys or gals vs.the top 10 PWT guys vs.the top MWC guys and other tourneys.And have the best of the best go at it.
Now I know that alot of these guys are already running a Ranger or a Lund or a Crestliner but a lot of them dont.It would be intresting and could be very profitable for any sponsers that helped out.

ok enough crying in my beer yes im jealose that I dont run a Ranger but if my idea ever takes off I want in.Strickly for the money of coarse.


scooter

[Gilligan]

Randy..

I own a Fisher, soon switching to Starcraft and can not fish the tournaments unless I would enter as a co angler. In spite of being excluded from fishing this tournament I take my hat off to Wal Mart. They could be funneling money to PETA, anti gun orginizations, or terrorists, instead they help fund a tournament for some walleye fisherman. That is a good call in my book.

I wonder, did Ranger approach Wal Mart and ask them to back this endeavor? My guess is that they did. Maybe if a group of other boat manufacturers would also approach them they would also get support as Ranger, Crestliner,and Lund did. We could have a SFW (or whatever) tournament, (Starcraft, Fisher, Warrior).

[Fish_on]

I read an article in the Wall Street Journal about how Irwin Jacobs (owner of Genmar) called the CEO at Wal-Mart every morning at 6:00 a.m. for weeks before he finally gave in. It's been a huge boon to both Genmar and Wal-Mart.

[Tom Moe]

I appreciate the comments this person has made. However, I don't get too excited about it. I would like to see the big retailers take more of an interest at the local level all over the country. Maybe by giving away a few hundred new rods-n-reels and a handful of tackle to some kids. To me, getting more people involved (especially kids) in hunting and fishing is more important than anything else. What an opportunity to help the sport and kids!
Regards,
Tom Moe

[RandyG]

It always amazes me how some people have to attack instead of stating
an intelligent response, especially, where OPINION is the only basis for comment. Some of you missed the point and a couple of you should wipe the brown of your nose!!

There is nothing wrong with a manufacturer sponsoring an event with any rules they want to impose, however, if one of the sponsors is not a manufacturer, then I think I have every right to draw their attention to the bias. In addition, I think non manufacturing sponsorship should reflect non exclusionary practices or they should
should at least spread the wealth around.

For you RCL supporters let your manufacturers pick up most the tab.
I intend to discuss with Walmart and other non manufacturing sponsors the benefits of putting their money where it is open to all, PWT!!! This action will not diminish walleye fishing it will allow the BEST OF EVERYTHING TO RISE TO THE TOP!

OPEN COMPETITION is what creates better products and competitors, not exclusive ownership of the marketing. HEY!, we are the consumers not the manufacturers so forget business 101.

SO, IF YOU CAN”T TAKE THE HEAT GET OUT OF THE KITCHEN!!

Now what do you think!



Thanks,

Randy

[steve(IL)]

Hey Big Sky - I stand behind everything I put up here and never post under any name but steve(IL). Are you from Montana? It's known for being a place where people can have thier own opinion. Maybe you're not really from Montana?

[RandyG]

It always amazes me how some people have to attack instead of stating
an intelligent response, especially, where OPINION is the only basis for comment.
Some of you missed the point and a couple of you should wipe the brown of your nose!!

There is nothing wrong with a manufacturer sponsoring an event with any rules
they want to impose, however, if one of the sponsors is not a manufacturer,
then I think I have every right to draw their attention to the bias. In addition, I think
non manufacturing sponsorship should reflect non exclusionary practices or they should
should at least spread the wealth around.

For you RCL supporters let your manufacturers pick up the tab.
I intend to discuss with Walmart and other non manufacturing sponsors the benefits of putting their money where it is open to all!!! This action will not diminish walleye fishing it will allow the BEST OF EVERYTHING TO RISE TO THE TOP!

OPEN COMPETITION is what creates better products and competitors, not exclusive ownership of the marketing. HEY!, we are the consumers not the manufacturers so forget business 101.

SO, IF YOU CAN”T TAKE THE HEAT GET OUT OF THE KITCHEN!!

Now what do you think!



Thanks,

Randy

[Ric]

I would put my money where it has the most dramatic marketing effect. If sponsoring the RCL reaches a broader base of consumers, I would rather make that investment. And to call such practices exclusionary is silly. They aren't looking at it that way. I saw an awful lot of Pepsi commercials during the Superbowl. Am I to assume that they are being exclusionary because no women play pro football? No, I am assuming that the market share is through the roof and they want to get the most bang for their buck.

[You betcha]

Marketing 101 it is! Aint America grand? It is too bad some people cannot see that this is still a free country, and capitalism is alive and well. The RCL is a brilliant idea, and a very well run circuit. And it is a private circuit. The game, their ball, their rules. Choose to play if you want to. You people that are against the RCL must also therefore be against NFL football, NASCAR, the IROC race series, any formalized competitive sport, the PGA and every other private entity that has an organized competition with qualifications as to who can participate. Qualifications such as skill, ability, certain equipment etc. If you are against the RCL, and not against these things, you are a hypocrite, plain and simple.

[Ya Right]

I doubt there is any truth to that!

[RCL won't last]

It is too exclusive and will die off when the boys can't afford high entry fees and new boats every two years. And Wal-Mart can't keep up their sponsorship for too many more years. If they don't pick up more sponsors, Wal-Mart may want to pull out.

[Fish_on]

Okay, I'll call your bluff. I dug it out of my files, it was August 9, 2000. My address is here: www.iowawalleye.com send me a SASE and I'll make a copy of it and send it to you.

Bernie

[Suuuuuuuurrrrree]

Yup, won't last. Just like that new fangled group, NASCAR.

[wormdunker]

I don't know, but if the RCL follows the same steps as the FLW, it will just keep growing. They are the first to bring outside the industry sponsors into the walleye world and I bet that they will expand their program. Stop and think about it, they are doing what no one else has. They are growing the sport and will make it better for us all.

[Unbelievable]

Every once in awhile there is a really dumb post here, not often but once in awhile. This may be a record setter.

[Al]

Running a risk with this structure of tournament? Two of my buddies just took delivery of rangers. EIGHT WEEKS delivery. I was at the factory a month ago, on a visit while in that part of the country. They were busy. The plant is much larger than it was several years ago when I was last there. There's guys and ladies running all around getting the job done. Seems like the boys down in Flippin have all the orders thay can handle. If some are offended, they must be non boat buyers.

[Al]

As a growing business owner for 11 years running, I can tell you that if I plop down my company's money for a program, and I run the thing, and I market it....I am no way in ##### going to share the limelight with a competitor. Good lord some folks have no business sense.

[Al]

"I take my hat off to Wal Mart. They could be funneling money to PETA, anti gun orginizations, or terrorists, instead they help fund a tournament for some walleye fisherman. That is a good call in my book."

Gilligan, that's one of the most brilliant statements I've read on this subject, or even this site. You my friend can ride in my boat any time.

For the rest of you....there's a five dollar fine for whinning.

[Al]

"It is too exclusive and will die off when the boys can't afford high entry fees and new boats every two years. And Wal-Mart can't keep up their sponsorship for too many more years. If they don't pick up more sponsors, Wal-Mart may want to pull out."


Good gawd. We go from a brilliant statement from Gilligan to some nonsense like this. Bubba, you'd better talk to the boys who said that about FLW. It's full, and there's young pups waiting in the wings to get in. Don't worry about Irwin getting sponsors. He could sell the balls off of a dead dog.

[Gilligan]

Bernie.. Mr. Ya Right with no email, unregistered, I doubt you will hear anything from him.

[Rich]

There are many different tournament circuits to choose from. Pro-am like the pwt or team format like the MWC. Each circuit has its own rules and guidlines. If those guidlines keep you from fishing a particular circuit, so be it. The fact of the matter is that the RCL is doing many things to promote walleye fishing and walleye tournaments in general. It wasn't many years ago when the payouts at major walleye tournaments were measured in hundreds of dollars, now we are seeing single payouts of hundreds of thousands of dollars. This is going to benefit all circuits. The sport of tournament angling is getting greater exposure than ever because of the payouts. These payouts are due in large part to the many sponsors that put up their money to help our sport. As with any tournament its easy to sit back and say I could have won that event but its entirely different to actually fish an event and win it. If I were going to pick an event to win it would be the RCL championship. Seems simple, buy R, C, or L, win it and laugh all the way to the bank. Go get em.

[Because]

The RCL is a private venture. Under the laws in thjis country a private venture can set such rules. No one involved with the RCL as an angler or running it ever said the RCL anglers are the best of the best. They are all good anglers to be sure, as are many, many anglers that do not own an RCL. This line of bull came from non RCL people. I for one cannot compete as a Pro, but do not wish to hold anyone back who does or can. You are correct, people who have enough money do compete while those without enough money do not. That is the same as buying lottery tickets, or seats to a concert. If you donot have the money, you stay home. The MWC is open to anyone that also has a boat that qualifies. So is any circuit for that matter. Every single tournament or circuit has minimum requitrements for the size of the boat, and how it is equipped. Every professionally run tournement charges an entry fee. Many "club" and charity tournies charge an entry fee. Yet no one squeals about their rules. No one whines about the Skeeter or Yar Craft owners tournies. I hear no complaints about the tracker owners tourney, or the former Tournament of Champions for Champion boat owners. Why is the RCL any different to you?

[Ya Right]

I am doubting the validity of the Author, not that you read it! I'm sure the CEO of Wally-World (walmart) was really fielding telephone calls at 6:00am on a daily basis for a week......get real. It was probably stated as sarcasm in the article.

[Ya Right]

And for all you know, they might be funneling a few bucks to them as well. You really don't know now, do you?

[Ya Right]

On the free fishing day in Wisconsin, many Cub and Boy Scouts utilize the day for an event for their groups. I have personally walked into the local Wal-Mart and asked them to sponsor a few door prizes for a fishing contest for a Cub Scout Pack and they donated $25.00 in merchandise to the cause. They do some things at the local level, but they also hold out as they donate on a larger corporate scale.

[RCL won't last]

Yep, and RCL ain't racing boats..... until it turns into that other fiasco, the BASS Masters! Can't wait for those shotgun starts and 10 grand wake jumping boats flying through the air with the fisherman wearing helmuts on their way to catch that elusive Walleye. NASCAR.... give a hillbilly a rubberband to play with!

[just fishing]

RCL is a pro fishermans wet dream! Many will play the field, but most will fall short....... and spend a ton doing it. Have at it boys!

By the way....... what is the motivation for the pros, money, status or fishing?

Seems the RCL and Walmart could funnel all that money to the natural resources and the walleye pros could go back to the "sport" of fishing instead of the "sport" of product promotion!

[TJ]

just fishing:

I fished in Detroit as a 'pro'. However, I have no sponsors and only pursue my __________ (fill in the blank: hobby, passion, addiction,...) on a 'part-time' basis. For me, fishing the RCL as a pro was/is about:

1) Fishing - I have a family and they come first in my life. I also have a job that I enjoy. When I am home, I rarely have time to fish for even a few hours, so entering a tournament is a good 'excuse' to go fishing all day for several days in a row. That just doesn't happen at home with kids, jobs, chores and other outside activities. Professional fishing is very hard work and, if done 'full-time', takes you away from your family for extended periods of time. At this stage of my life, I am unwilling to 'abandon' my girls (3 & 16) at such important phases in their lives, not to mention my wife who, so far, is supportive of my endeavors and encourages me to do more. The amount of time required to have a reasonable expectation of doing well is too great a price to pay for me to go 'full-time'. Perhaps that disqualifies me as a 'pro', as is oft debated here. If so, so be it. When I fish a major tournament, I don't want to put in a half-hearted effort. Regardless of what you may call me, an entrant on the 'pro' side owes an obligation to themselves, their competitors and their 'co-anglers' to put in the time and invest in the equipment required to be 'competitive.' Those investments of time and money are significant. Luck will always play a roll in tournament fishing, but hard work doing research and pre-fishing will reduce the luck factor. I just don't have the time to do it every week or two from spring through fall.

2) Money - No explanation necessary here. EARNING a check after working so hard for a week or two is very gratifying. Earning enough to cover your expenses is even better. Having some left over after expenses is a bonus. That said, I have no illusions of getting rich fishing tournaments alone. I honestly don't believe anyone could. The investments of time and money are too great. If I win enough to pay for my _____________ (fill in the blank: hobby, passion, addiction,...), then I have WON and had a blast doing so! If I finish dead a$$ last, I'm still tickled pink that I got to fish for several days in a row (see 1)).

3) Status - This is not something I seek. I'm pretty new at this and no one really knows who I am. That's OK with me and has it's benefits. As I said, I have no sponsors and, therefore, have no need to be 'visible.' If I occasionally place well and as I meet more of the other pros along the way, I suppose the mystery of 'me' will fade. That's OK too. For now, I am the 'guy in the yellow coat with the motors that don't match.' :)

My next major tournament won't be until October - the RCL Championship. Since, I've now qualified for that, I can take the summer off, research the Championship site and spend a lot of quality time with my family! I will probably fish a couple WWA tournament and, as always, the Sturgeon Bay Open Bass Tournament. If that doesn't tell you that I like to fish, nothing else will. Good luck to all the pros and co-anglers in the remaining RCL events. Thanks to Wal-Mart, Sonny and the RCL crew for running such a great circuit. See y'all in October.

TJ

[Ralph]

Nope. Always been Ralph.

Wouldn't it be nice if the Masters golf tournament banned anyone not using NIKE golf Balls, NIKE golf clubs and NIKE golf shirts?????


That would be good marketing, wouldn't it?

[Wow]

I pitty your ignorance.

[SUPERTROLLER]

We can only hope that the RCL becomes as BIG as NASCAR!!! And half as popular. The marketing of sponsors would go through the roof. NASCAR racing has the fastest growing fan base of all sports right now. As someone else stated earlier, Tracker has their tournament, as does Skeeter, and Yarcraft. How come you losers only whine about the RCL? Could it be because they just happen to have the biggest payouts of the Pro Tournaments?

When Ranger and Walmart started the new FLW Bass Series, what did BassMasters do? The switched their sponsorship to Triton! They now have 2 Pro Series. More tournaments for fisherman and more money available to be won! You need to put your energy to work complaining to your Favorite Manufacturer to get them to sponsor a Championship so you guys can be equal and stop this wasted effort of running down someone else's opportunity's.

Your arguements for inclusion don't make any sense. Not ONE single Pro Walleye fisherman is excluded from fishing these Tournaments. The Rules of Competition state that the Pro must be an owner of a Ranger, Crestliner, or Lund. They can enter just like anyone else, IF THEY QUALIFY! All they've got to do is buy a boat that meets the proper specifications. Rules for any sport exclude improper equipment. We all play by the rules, don't we? If you don't like the rules, take your boat and go home!

[bw]

Well said

[flyman]

I never said it was a big risk. I also only said it diminishes the marketing value of the boat companies braggin' rights for winning that tournament (which is probably not even their intention for running the tournament). I never said it ticked me off either. Just that an exclusive tournament doesn't really prove (or disprove) the comparative (to other makes) merits of the product to me. There's a lot of RCLs doing very well in other tournaments too. I suspect that as a whole "tournament victories" is a very small part of the boat industries advertising program compared to bait and line makers. They certainly are doing something right, and they make good product.

[flyman]

For the record, from what I heard Ranger pulled their sponsorship from Bassmasters because they did not approve of some new racing and boat handling aspect being implemented. Basically, they didn't want to encourage their customers to drive recklessly. If it is true, I must say it was a classy move.

[SUPERTROLLER]

Whatever their reasoning was, my point was that they now have 2 tournament circuits and the Fisherman have expanded opportunity's to participate. This is better for all involved.

[Lund AnglerMJ]

Well said. I've got a Lund and they've sent me an invitation,I'd sure like to go,but work,you know....pull's us in the other direction the fish are goin'!I trully belive that a sponser can choose to add a few-right?How about adding 3 more boat mfg.'s? Anyone think it would fly? Pray before you sleep;you may not get another chance.Pray at the start of a new day;you've just been given that chance.

[Big Sky]

Nope, not from Montana. Just north of you to be exact. You don't answer all your question last I looked from your other post on Ranger boats.

[TJ]

Boats don't 'win' tournaments or catch fish. The anglers do. Boats are a tool that can play a part in the anglers success. Show me a boat that catches big fish and I'll be the fish one in line to buy one! :)

I saw many local anglers in Detroit, fishing out of 14' row boats with small motors absolutely nailing the fish. Watching them help me in the tournament. Look, listen, learn.

TJ

[Why]

Why must you "class" people as LOSERS supertroller....are you better than everyone else, or just a legend in your own mind?

[bw]

TJ what place did you take and how did you do it?

[just fishing]

The point is that a real "pro" is into the fishing for the sake of fishing. Simply wants to be the best and do the best that they can. Has nothing to do with marketing and status.

These tournaments were born from simple, friendly contests. While they are still friendly, they are no longer simple and are riddled with marketing gimmics under the guise of "making the sport better", and offering meager payouts to the fisherman, while spending millions on TV marketing.

The sport of pro fishing has turned into the sport of pro marketing.

And be careful of the exclusiveness worship. When a market gets cornered, that is when the prices really go up. When Ranger has no competition, you potential Ranger owners will be suffering from sticker shock! That is why a businessman buys out the competition. Not just so he can market the b@lls off a dog!

[TJ]

I finished 17th. I took 17th by not catching many fish on Day 3! :)

Seriously, I did something on Days One and Two that I had never done before going to Detroit - Pole-lining. Being from the Land of Cheese, I had a couple muskie poles laying around that I thought would work. I really didn't want to buy hand line reels, so, armed with the article in Walleye Insider, gear from the boys at Bottomline Bait & Tackle, and some valuable demonstration and advice on hand-lining from 'Luvtotroll', I set out to replicate handlining using a pole. Here's what I did/used:

Rods: 6' and 7' muskie rods.
Reels: Ambassadeur 6500 C3 - (one left- and one right-handed which worked great for the two sides of the boat).
Line: 50# superbraid (Whiplash and RipCord)
Terminal gear: 10 oz. weights attached to a 4'-5' shank
Leaders: 25# Sensation - 15' and 30' leads, Cabela's cross-lock ball-bearing swivel on shank end, Size 1 clip on lure end.
Lures: Rapalas - Floaters mostly in sizes 7, 9, and 11

Day One: I had full intensions of jigging at the start of the day, but the full day and evening of rain and wind had muddied the water so I switched gears and went directly to pole-lining in the Trenton Channel. On a bit of advice from a local expert, I up-sized a couple lures to size 11. We started catching fish right away and they all came on Chartruese, most on #11. So after the 3rd fish, we switched all our baits to chartreuse and continued to catch fish all morning. Things slowed a bit in the afternoon, but we still upgraded one or two fish. Biggest fish came around 10-11 AM. Most fish were caught around the lower end near Calf Island. We caught fish shallow and deep. Many jiggers switched to pole- or hand-lining in the afternoon, but the bite had slowed by then. I had a great partner for the day, actually all three days, and we didn't miss an opportunity to land a fish all day. My 1st day partner, Tom Harrison, went on to finish 2nd (way to go Tom!).

Day Two: Why tamper with a successful approach. Same program, same location. Didn't catch quite as many, or quite as big. Most fish came a little farther upstream (a hint I missed). The water was clearing. Bigger fish, again, came around 10-11 AM. When the sun came out in mid-morning I switched some of the baits over to Holographic Green and that took several fish in a row. When the clouds came back, that color stopped producing. The afternoon was very slow. My Day 2 partner, Matt Patrick, only put around 5# on the board on Day One, so we worked hard to get him a check. Unfortunately, we came up a few ounces short - he finished 54th. After Day 2 I ended up in 6th. Burned 8 gallons of gas in the first 2 days!

Day Three: My Day 3 partner, Darren Edlund, and I started out with the same program. By 9 AM we only had 2 16" in the box and we had caught the first under-sized fish of the tournament (14 15/16 inches). Darren couldn't stretch him. Not wanting to give up on the bigger-fish bite I had experienced on Days 1 and 2, I decided to 'fish it out' in the channel. Around mid-day I finally gave up and we moved down to the inner channel along Horse Island and jigged. Lost a small one at the start, then nothing. Then we ran up to the Steel Mill (warmer water). To be honest, I had pre-fished the river from top to bottom, marked fish in several locations (deep), but couldn't get them to go. Time was slipping by. Had to try something. We pulled in to the mill and started jigging. Like at Horse Island, I had one on right away (big one too!), but it 'popped' off as I was putting down my other rod. We finished the drift without a bite and decided to finish in the channel. No more fish for the day, hence 17th. I felt bad about not moving earlier, but...?

My hindsight is pretty good, like 20/20. :) If I had to do it over again, I would move quicker in a single day elimination like Day 3. I didn't need to have the biggest basket that day, just something consistent, like a limit and one big fish. As it turned out, 12 lbs. would have done it and that only meant one big fish in our box to go with the 4# of little guys.

All-in-all, I had a really good time. The pole-lining was the way to go. Since I didn't catch many fish in pre-fishing, I was doubting myself. I was sure someone was slamming them somewhere on the lake or river. Day One's results showed me that I was not the only one struggling to catch weight. I tried jigging the channel in pre-fishing and I spent a lot of time tying on jigs. The weather was cold. Pole-lining allowed me and my partners to keep 4 baits in the water ALL DAY LONG and we got to fish with our gloves on! :). I think that was key. I setup my rig to sacrifice tackle in succession to minimize downtime. If the lure snagged irretrieveably, the snap would open or the leader would break. It doesn't take long to put another leader and lure on. If the weight snagged, the swivel at the weight would open. Solution: put on another weight. In the first two days I didn't lose any lures, only one weight. I had the bills break off two Rapalas, but I also caught a wad of line with two Rapalas in it (Thanks!)! Net gain/(loss) = 0.

So, I had a pretty good time. My partners were all great guys, we caught fish, the RCL folks were great and so were my fellow competitors and the local folks I met. The only thing I can complain about was...the weather (as I sit here it's 70 outside). Where was this last week? Take care. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

TJ

[Say What?]

Where did supertroller call anyone a looser?

[SoDakBoy]

WalMart should be free to sponsor whatever kind of tournament they choose, IMO. But just remember that we're free to shop elsewhere as well. I already avoid WalMart, shopping at either Cabela's or BassPro for big purchases, or at local tackle shops for smaller stuff.

I encourage everyone to support your local bait/tackle stores so we can keep them in business. Afterall, when's the last time you ever got any decent fishing tips from the gal behind the counter at WalMart?!?! ;)

[bw]

Great Job on your finish and also nice detail it was like I was almost in your boat. Thanks for the story Brian Walter

[Al]

Only the strong survive. FLW hasn't run BASS out of business. It's grown and now ESPN owns it . Who would have ever thought that would happen? It wouldn't, except FLW has raised the stakes and the guys who fish pro and the organizations both win. When it was just bass, the payouts became stagnant. Along came FLW,and knocked their eyes out with 100K 1st place checks. BASS had that on only rare occasions,a nd the classic wasn't one of them. FLW made it more common place. BASS didn't buckle under and go belly up, they got better. Now both circuits are paying well. So your theory about buyouts and runouts isn't panning out. Someone will soon come along and take PWT to the next level. If they don't , then the market couldn't support two anyway. That my friend is business.If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch, just don't play dead because you might have parts of you sold.

[luredaddy]

Well, you asked people what they think, I think it is a Walmart Tournament, they establish all the rules..!!! If you donot agree with the rules, you take your bat and ball, whatever the brands are, and play on a field that welcomes you , or go home!

[LUND NOT EVER]

Now i have to add crestliner and ranger to that not ever list. I just fish to fish the way the good lord meant it to be. JUST FISHING'

[Pukeboy]

My, this thread has turned into a real vomit session. Go fishing guys, there is a big world out there.

[Why]

In Post 72: "How come you losers only whine about the RCL?"

[Okay]

I see that now, but then there is truth to both sides of the arguments, and I don't mean to call anyone a looser.

[You Are Correct Sir!]

An awesome statement! I have always said that myself! I just wonder why so mant people are so bitter over the RCL? No one cries over any other PRIVATE, for Profit tournament circuit. So they won't allow boaters to use anything other than an RCL, so what? I think a few people need to grow up, shut up and get over it.

[Buyoff]

And when they have the market cornered, the prices skyrocket just like Opec's oil! Yes, we need Genmar to control the fishing boat industry so we can feel warm and fuzzy about tournament fishing! Get real! As a businessman, I would think you would have connected those dots as well! At $35,000 dollars a boat though, I imagine they can sponsor a few tournaments. Especially if they got you buying new ones every two years just to fish in their exclusive tournament. What will the puppet master have you guys doing next?

[Mikey]

I hold nothing against RCL or any other tournament. But after reading some of these posts, I hope I don't offend anyone or disgrace any of the tournaments I fish in with my 1987 Starcraft Superfisherman with the older Johnson motor. I am new this year and I thought I would just have some fun and introduce my youngest son to tournament fishing. And if all goes well, maybe even win a little.

[Money]

Don't give Walmart all the credit for funding the big prize dollars. I just did the math and the fisherman will contribute $1,237,500 of the prize money for this circuit in 4 tournaments.

I have never seen the numbers but Walmart may only be supplying the black top for the weigh-in trailer!

[Marble Eyes]

I guess I don't get it. If you want to fish the RCL as a Pro buy a Ranger, Crestliner or Lund. If you want to fish it as a Co-angler Don't buy one. (And it is much cheaper)

Disclaimer-Yes I did fish on the Co-angler side of the RCL tourney last week.

When I sat in at the Registration Meeting for the RCL out of Detroit, Sonny or Mr. Doran specificly said to the Co-Anglers "one of our goals is to put you in one of those boats"! Seems to me that with a full field of 150 Co-Anglers they are doing exactly what they wanted to do. What better way to advertise your product to a specific group of consumers.

I would love to fish the tourney on the Pro side,if I had the knowledge needed to win. And if I did, I can guarentee you I'D have the right kind of boat. Until then, I just try to learn how to fish... ;)

[Fish_on]

Okay here's part of the article by Ann Zimmerman, staff reporter:

For a year, Financier Irwin Jacobs stalked Wal-Mart President Lee Scott. Almost daily, the Minneapolis deal maker phoned at 6:20 a.m. before Mr. Scott's secretary had arrived in his Bentonville, Ark. office.
"One day I finally said, 'Irwin, you don't think I come to work this early just to talk to you?'" Mr. Scott recalls.

It goes on to say:

Walmart, the world's biggest retailer, had never before lent its name to a sporting event. But Mr. Scott eventually said yes. "It was either that or join the witness protection program!" Mr. Scott says.

It's a rather long story but very revealing about the early FLW tournaments and the business of tournament sponsorship. The kind of stuff I love to keep in my files.

[Rocket Scientist]

>And when they have the market cornered, the prices skyrocket
>just like Opec's oil!

I guess I don't understand the corolation here. 1st, Opec does not have a corner on the market. Opec is as powerful as the US allows them to be. If we would tap full force into our own oil fields and offshore reserves, our need for opec would disapear. And the sagging economies and high unemployment rates in the oil belts would recover too! Hmm, cheaper gas, more workers employed and a better economy still! Why are we dealing with Opec in the 1st place. Add to that, if we, as a country, would further explore, smart alternative fuels as a future option. we really wouldn't need Opec. 2nd, Genmar can not control the market. if you have a monopoly, the Govt willbust you up.

>Yes, we need Genmar to control the
>fishing boat industry so we can feel warm and fuzzy about
>tournament fishing!

I am even more lost with this one. Just how does Genmar "control" the fishing boat industry? Genmar is a major player, as are many others. And you need to check with that feller on the grassy knoll about your percieved conspiracy, Genmar builds all kinds of boats, from little tin ones to great big cruisers. And, I don't think anyone attmpts to feel warm and fuzzy about tournament fishing.

>Get real!

Look in the mirror when you say that.

>As a businessman, I would
>think you would have connected those dots as well!

I get a completely different picture when I connect the dots in the proper order.

>At
>$35,000 dollars a boat though, I imagine they can sponsor a
>few tournaments.

Here comes the overpriced argument again, and boy oh boy,it looks more and more haggard everytime and anti Genmar Type trots it out. Show me a 35,000 dollar Lund Adventurer and I'll kiss your dog in the mouth! Tracker, Lund, Triton, Ranger, Skeeter, YarCraft, Javelin, Champion (such as it is now), Alumacraft, Warrior, Patriot, Bass Cat, Gambler, Stratos, Bayliner, Four Winns, Mastercraft, Sea Swirl, Boston Whaler, Robalo and almost any other company you can mention, that has top end boats can easily exceed the 35,000 dollar mark. And as you see, all the companies listed are not Genmar company's. This point in the argument and the next tell me you either do not own a boat, or own one not RCL or one that costs considerably less.

>Especially if they got you buying new ones
>every two years just to fish in their exclusive tournament.

Here you are right! But not totally. What a marketing ploy huh, to qualify for the BONUS money, you must own a newer RCL boat brand. And as stated, as a non boater you don't even need to own a boat! Show me a circuit that will pay what the RCL pays the non boater? And better still, what a ploy to attract anglers from other circuits into yours! Many of these guys were getting a new boat every year, or every other year long before the RCL hit the scene.

>What will the puppet master have you guys doing next?

I dunno, maybe he will have us line out fishing caps with tin foil to keep the bee's and aliens from controlling our thoughts.

[Ya and]

Your point is? Many, many circuits and tournaments have anglers fishing for, what amounts to a pool of their own money. Carry the numbers further please. You stated tha anglers contribute $1,237,500 of their own money. As far as i can tell that may be true. But what is the total prize payout, in cash, at each tournament, before you consider the bonus money? Now add the bonus money. How big a purse are the anglers competing for? How much is their money and how much is not. And what, you think WalMart doesn't go all out at the weigh in sites? Puhleeeese!

[CL]

Actually, Tom Keenan losing that fish cost you alot of money Trap.

[zugbug]

extortion is the subtle law of the land. It's Irwins world and we all live in it. As for Walmart Advertising Pays just ask Super K.

[wormdunker]

And they pay back 1,456,000 at four events plus 4 rigged boats with a value of 160,000 ... total payback for four events is 1,616,000.00 ... Is that a good payback or not?