Lund transom leak?

[Big Bob]

I have a 1995 Lund Tyee Grand Magnum that may have a leak in the transom. I noticed last year that my boat has about 5 gallons or so of dirty colored water every time out when I pull the plug but it is not enough that I can pump with the bilge pumps. I looked under the splash well and it looks like there are streaks of dark looking oil or something seeping from the wood but the transom seems solid and there is no movement and I can hang on the transom and it does not budge. Has anyone had or heard of this issue? or any possible leaking through the bolts or something? I fish Erie and do get a little bit of water in the boat from waves but can see nothing getting through the splash well. Any info would be helpful.

[boat nut]

That doesn't sound good. You bilge pump should be able to get more of that water out, and might need to be adjusted. Take care of it soon. I just had the transom board replaced on my 1999 prosport...not cheap.

[Robert M]

Lots of places that water can get in.Loose rivets or hose connections etc. I would pull the plug and try to dry the boat out then put it back in the water and try to see where the water is coming in.Could be as simple as tightening a hose connection or a little silicone at a fitting.Hull fitings or even livewell fitings can leak some.

[PJM]

Big Bob

Pull the boat out of the water fill the livewell with water and put them on recirculating and see if there is a plumbing problem. If not not the fill boat with water below the floor and see if there is something leaking on the bottom of the boat or the transom. I did this and found out I had a broken hose that was leaking and it made it easy to find the problem. Livewell's seem to always be a good source of water in a boat

[K Gonefishin]

I know someone with the same boat and year, transom had to be completely rebuilt wood was rotted out, although it didn't appear like nothing was wrong, you start peeling stuff off and you may find a whole different story. His transom actually ended up cracking which he ended up rebuilding himself so he got to see what the inside looked like. I'm fishing with him tomorow I can get more info from him and post back later this weekend.

[REW]

Big,
Good advice all.
I do suspect that you have a leak in your boat that is somewhere else than the transom.
The transom may be part of the problem, but you really need to check every possible location for leaks. i.e. the entire hull, rivets, cracks in the hull, livewell system, livewell pump, livewell hoses and fittings. drains, overflow lines. etc.

You just need to start at the beginning and look for a leak everywhere in the boat.

If you eliminate everything else, place the boat level and add water to the boat so that it is near the floor level. Check all of the bottom structure to insure that nothing is dripping out of the bottom of the boat.

A methodical check will pinpoint the problem. How it gets repaired is up to you and your repair shop.

P.S.
If you don't find the source of the leak - and you should - take it to a good shop who specializes in such thing for their help.
REW

[REW]

Bob,
One thing that you might want to check first is the splash pan.
If you have a leaky splash pan, it is very easy to get a lot of water in the bilge and it is very easy to fix.

To check, put plugs in the splash pan drains.
Then, fill the splash pan with water from your garden hose.
After filling - take a bright light and shine down on the inside of all of the access ports to be able to look at the bottom side of the splash pan where it is attached to the transom. Look for any wet streaks on the transom. Sometimes it is much easier to see, if you put some food coloring into the water. So, if colored water leaks through you will be able to more easily see it.

If you do find leaks, normally, all that you have to do is to remove all of the screws in the leaking area. Make sure that the transom face, and splash pan are bone dry, then, force silicone from the top side of the splash pan all along the area where the leaks have occurred. Before reinstalling the screws, let the silicon harden a bit - like a couple of hours. Then, install the screws, putting fresh silicone around the screws when you reinstall them. The idea is that you want the splash pan transom area well sealed, but if you tighten the screws down before the silicone has set at all, you will squeeze all of the silicone back out of the area to be sealed.

p.s.
In you testing, be sure to go over the entire underside of the splashpan when it was filled with water. Sometimes there are hair line cracks that may not be too obvious.
If you do find a crack in the splash pan, the very best thing to do is to have a welder come to the boat and weld the splash pan back up. If the splash pan has cracked, it is likely because it has been overstressed for some reason. So, if you do have a welder weld the crack, after welding up the crack also have the welder install a brace over the area in the form of doubled material or something similar. Because if it has cracked once, it will crack again.

Good luck
REW

[TomP.]

When you say hang on your transom are you talking about just your body. To really check if your transom is bad tilt your motor up grab the lower unit and rock it up and down there should be barely any movement if at all. I think by your above mention black treaks in the wood is your transom is bad. HOPE NOT.

[Big Bob]

Thanks, I really do appreciate all the good advice and plan on getting into it Monday. Thanks again and will get back soon.

[Big Bob]

Well, I could not wait and tested the transom today by raising the engine and putting a lot of pressure on the engine to see if the transom would flex and it does flex a little bit. Also, I found a pop rivet broken on the aluminum plate that is on the top part of the transom that the top motor bolts go through. I called Lund and they told me that it should not flex at all. I will do water testing on Sunday and think that it could be bad news for me as my big trip to Erie is in mid May. The people at Lund told me that they would charge me $75 an hour and it is around a twenty hour job not including materials and they are 15 hours away as I am in Southern Ohio. I am a little upset if this is the issue because this boat only has 220 hours on the original engine and only goes to Erie twice a year and Cumberland mybe once a year and that is it and was in a heated garage for the first half of it's life and the original seats and really the whole boat is in outstanding condition. To get your dream boat and have this happen is hard to take. Thanks again all for the advice and sorry to ramble about this.

[BufordT]

I've posted some Ranger messages in the past on behalf of my computer-averse father, so to clear up any confusion, I actually own a Lund Tyee.

For peace of mind, I just replaced the transom on my 1987 5.5 (1850) Lund Tyee last month. I had a suspicion it was rotten in some places, but it still felt solid enough. I didn't want to tackle the job myself, so I took it to a boat repair shop, and it took them about 2 weeks, and they charged $3300 total, but that includes a little custom work I had done for where I mount the 9.9 kicker. Their estimate without that custom work was close to $3000. They also said they've charged up to $6000 for certain Lunds, depending on the year and model, because they are not all built the same. They also mentioned they only used about $400 worth of parts.

The boat was very well maintained over the years as my dad owned it for 20 years, and it was always stored inside and dried after use, but like Big Bob, some of those rivets on that sheet metal covering the transom were busted, and the bolts holding the motor on were loose enough a couple years ago, that they were letting a lot of water in. The transom felt solid, but you should see how rotten it really was. I wonder why they don't just weld that cap on instead of using rivets? I'm pretty sure Crestliner welds the transom together, so that would alleviate the busted rivet problem at least. I would also recommend using some good 3M marine adhesive/sealant for motor bolts and other through hull fittings, rather than standard 100% clear silicone that you can buy anywhere.

I was told by the boat repair shop that the aluminum boat manufacturers do not use marine grade plywood in the transom, or the floor, but just your standard exterior grade plywood, with no further treatment (i.e resin, or other sealants). I'm not sure using exterior grade makes that big of a difference though, because I think marine plywood might be a little stronger than exterior grade, but I'm not sure it is less prone to rot.

[Big Bob]

Well, I have gotten to the bottom of the transom issue. The aluminum has corroded due to the treated wood in the transom with the chemicals eating away the metal. I took it to a shop today and they found it. I thought that it was just the paint that had bubbles in it because it is 15 years old although the rest of the boat is like new but it was the aluminum and it is so bad that you can see the wood in some places where the aluminum is corroded away. Needless to say, the estimate to fix it is a lot and not sure what I am going to do an am very upset that a Lund Tyee would have an issue like this with them being a premier boat manufacturer. I would venture to say that this is not the first time.

[MarkG]

I've posted some Ranger messages in the past on behalf of my computer-averse father, so to clear up any confusion, I actually own a Lund Tyee.


I was told by the boat repair shop that the aluminum boat manufacturers do not use marine grade plywood in the transom, or the floor, but just your standard exterior grade plywood, with no further treatment (i.e resin, or other sealants). I'm not sure using exterior grade makes that big of a difference though, because I think marine plywood might be a little stronger than exterior grade, but I'm not sure it is less prone to rot.

Marine grade plywood has nothing to do with if it is treated or not. Has more to do with strength. It require the layers being free of voids and knots,as well as using stronger glues between the layers. Some marine plywoods may have been treated,but I am pretty sure the EPA has limited all that. Marine plywood is stronger but in itself,no less prone to rot.

Not sure if Lund ever used treated plywood in their transoms,,I am pretty sure they did not in their floors.

[MarkG]

Well, I have gotten to the bottom of the transom issue. The aluminum has corroded due to the treated wood in the transom with the chemicals eating away the metal. I took it to a shop today and they found it. I thought that it was just the paint that had bubbles in it because it is 15 years old although the rest of the boat is like new but it was the aluminum and it is so bad that you can see the wood in some places where the aluminum is corroded away. Needless to say, the estimate to fix it is a lot and not sure what I am going to do an am very upset that a Lund Tyee would have an issue like this with them being a premier boat manufacturer. I would venture to say that this is not the first time.

Any chance you can take some pics and post them here?

Would especially like to see how the aluminum was corroded. Maybe it was due to some electrolysis. I didn't think Lund used treated wood in their transoms. There are tons of Lunds way older than yours without rotting or corroding transoms. This is not typical.

[Big Bob]

Here are a couple of pictures of the issue after I scraped the paint bubble away what the streaks look like from the inside. There are at least 10 or more paint bubbles that
I am not going to scrape away. I have had no help from Lund so far and think that they would at least give me a deal on the aluminum and pre-cut transom wood and still hold out hope.

[MarkG]

Here are a couple of pictures of the issue after I scraped the paint bubble away what the streaks look like from the inside. There are at least 10 or more paint bubbles that
I am not going to scrape away. I have had no help from Lund so far and think that they would at least give me a deal on the aluminum and pre-cut transom wood and still hold out hope.

In the pre Brunswick days, Lund would have been more prone to do SOMETHING to help. Looks as though not as much today.

Yeah,,,,looks pretty bad ! Do you believe that stuff leaching into the bilge is chemical from a treated plywood ? You should send those pics directly to Lund. Are you the original owner and sure nothing had previously been replaced in that transom? That looks bad even for a 15 year old boat. (that was a 1995,,right? )

[Robert M]

If I remember right lund had a 10 year decending warranty where it was 100% the first year 90 the second on down.They werent very helpful when I had a small issue years ago with one.And that was just a faulty weld in a live well I ended up fixing myself.My next boat wasnt a Lund partly because of that.Not saying they are a bad boat.These days with all the new advanced products out there Im surprised there is still any wood in boats.Either the cost is too high or they just dont want them to last that long.

[Big Bob]

I have called them multiple times just to see if I could drive it up there [15 hours] if they could get it in to fix at my cost with hopefully a little bit of a discount and they seem to not want to return my calls. I am the second owner but kind of knew the original owner and it was in a heated garage for a lot of its life and only has 233 hours on the motor and has the original seats and everything and looks like new except for this issue. I hope they call me back, even if just to talk about it. I am really tired of voice mail!

[T Mac]

Usually it is the bolts holding the engine on.
If installed incorrectly... they will leak.
The correct way is to never spin the bolt...only the nut. If done the other way...the silicone goes away and you get a leak.

[Dave C]

I had a 98 Lund 1660 Lund Pro V that leaked around the rubber flap transom outlets (not sure what they are called.) I pulled them and discovered they were not sealed with anything, just a overlap snap type fit of two sections. Water was entering the transom wood from there. Started noticing that brown liquid stuff leaking from them. After pulling them, I rebuilt the area that was rotted with epoxy type stuff. Then siliconed the outlets and reinstalled. Caught it before it did too much damage. So if anyone notices that brown liquid leaking out around those outlets, make sure you check those.

[CrappieKyle]

I bought a 2000 model 1650 Explorer knowing full well it had a rotten transom board. (Got a great deal on it.) And with my son's help, we fixed it and it wont do it again. It took two people two 10 hour days and here is how.

I took the top cap loose without even pulling the screws. Just pulled it up and looked under it. Rotten as heck. Bought it, took it home removed the motor and top cap. Pulled out the two tall pieces of non rotted wood by screwing in I bolts and with a crow bar thru the I bolt and with my son on one end they came out. Most of the rest of the wood was removed by a shop vac. Thats rotten! It is a testiment to how well built LUNDs are that you can run them with mush for the transom board and not even know it.

I ordered the transom board from LUND thru a dealer. But If I had to do it again, I would buy marine ply and make my own.

While waiting on it to arrive, I cleaned out the aluminimum on the inside of the transom and patched each of the holes with JB weld. Those holes you have is due to electrolosis due to the wet wood between two conductor plates...the aluminum in the transom....which made it a low voltage battery and rotten wood also creates a mild acid. That's the brown stains you see. BTW you cannot use pre-treated plywood with aluminum becouse it will corrode the alum. even worse.

The next problem is with the 17 thru bolts. (I can see them in your outer transom pic.) These are what hold the outer and inner aluminum to the wood and make the transom strong. But I didn't have to remove them before removing the wood because it was mush. You may have to remove them to get whats left of your wood out. Here is the problem. You cannot get access to the nuts on the inside due since they are inside of foam filled compartments. And don't bother to try either. This is probably why the repair shops charge so much. You would need to remove a lot of inner aluminum and all that flotation foam to get in there. Big time consuming headache and NOT necessary.

I simply took out the few that using a phillips head power driver could do. But if the nut starts turning inside go to plan B. Drill out the phillips head then take one of the bolts you got out and use it to drive that intire bolt to the inside of the foam in the compartment. I will tell you what I replaced them with later.

While waiting for the transom board, I ordered CPES (Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealant) from Rotdoctor.com. This stuff paints on wood like diesel fuel and soaks in. It fills the pores in the wood with epoxy plastic and makes wood impervious to water. LUND should do this to all the wood in their boats IMHO. You should go to RotDoctor and read about the testing they did. This is my insurance that I will never have to replace the wood in my boat again.

The board came in, I did the CPES treatment as per instructions and waited 2 days for it to completely cure.

Drove the board into the transom with rubber hammers. Remember your transom is likea sandwich...Alum[wood]Alum.
Now comes the hard part. You must redrill all of the penetrations where bolts go thru that wood. On mine I think there were about 27. And you must do them the right size and you must go thru the wood and find the hole in the inner aluminum. You dont want to miss these or make them bigger. So each one I used a much smaller bit to drill a pilot hole and find the inner hole in that aluminum. Do not get in a hurry with this. Take your time and do a good job of it.

Then once the holes and even the motor mount holes were all drilled, I mixed up some CPES that I saved back for this purpose and used a syringe and small art brushes to treat the wood inside each of the holes. This is added insurance.

Remember all those bolts with phillips heads (like those seen in your first picture) I drilled out and punched them inside the foam of the flotation cells. Well I replaced each of them (with the exception of about 6 that you can reach easily behind the motor area) with stainless lag bolts. When I drove them in by hand you could litterally feel when it reached the inner aluminum and when it pulled that alum down to the wood. Of course I put them in with lots of good marine sealant. After 1.5 years of hard use, none of these lag bolts have budged. So the new rebuilt transome is as well built as the original and WILL NOT ROT! (Once again go to rotdoctor.com and read the testing that they did with CPES in Seattle, Wa.)

Put the top cap back on with sealant. Repaint the whole transom to make it purdy.

Remount your motor....and enjoy your great boat and never worry about your transom again.

This was all done by two men in two days for under 500 bucks. The Transom board was abut $350.

Your boat may be built different so your mileage may vary.

Best of luck to you Big Bob and If I can help in any way I certainly will.