High stakes aim circuit

[Raybob]

-kinda curious, do you folks think that aim will pull in enough 'donaters to support the circuit payouts? Seems to myself that they should either have more tourneys in a year over a much wider band of East/West state waters or spread the current tourney's from East to West to stir the interest in Walleye anglers?

Choices ~ I still think aim is Great for the folks that can afford to play the high stakes game in today's economy as a alt choice to the flw that allows the 'skilled anglers to get into the I-game at a much lower entry fee. :)

[dutchboy]

-kinda curious, do you folks think that aim will pull in enough 'donaters to support the circuit payouts? Seems to myself that they should either have more tourneys in a year over a much wider band of East/West state waters or spread the current tourney's from East to West to stir the interest in Walleye anglers?

Choices ~ I still think aim is Great for the folks that can afford to play the high stakes game in today's economy as a alt choice to the flw that allows the 'skilled anglers to get into the I-game at a much lower entry fee. :)


AIM must think they have a niche and enough people who want to play. As far as number of tourneys I think it's very important for them to have their format fine tuned since it is different then what people are use to.

AIM, FLW, MWC, Joe blow club tournaments. Room for all of them. This isn't and will never be a NFL vs USFL competition. In my opinion people try and make much more of this then reality dictates.

It's just fishing. :grin:

[mrbreeze]

I'm not sure that is the solution - spreading out the geography. I think that there is another circuit that "spread" out the geography, and even had a lower level division at one time...neither of these have proven to be successful. In fact, the other circuit only has 55 participants this weekend. Is that because they spread the geography, lowered the entries (and payouts), or another reason. I don't know.

Time will tell, but I think that the AIM model seems like a good one. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me a bit if AIM - in the format that they have adopted - pulls in more "donaters" than the other circuit. I'll assume that the partners in that effort - who think about these questions 24/7 - are in the best position to make these decisions as opposed to some internet quarterbacks.

[Raybob]

mrbreeze, I fished in my 1st tourney in the mid 60's & last my tourney in 2001 ...I kinda like to keep close tabs on both Bass and I-tourneys in my twilight dayz as a spec-tater... -Tis simple ~ Mostly I luv to see the guys n' gals compete that don't have fat wallets for high entry fees in-order to show their 'skills in these tough times :) To myself, it is all about Angling ability and learning ~ not making a 'living off the tourney's for the handful of high place finishers while the rest of the field goes home w/a lite wallet (donators) in the high stakes game...

[mrbreeze]

I understand that. It is clear that you have a bias toward the FLW model (even before it lowered the fees). And trust me, there are still plenty of "donaters" there. I think that each circuit has its own business decisions to make. AIM came on the scene and only one year later, FLW has seen that it makes more sense for them to be a lower-cost/and potentially lower-payback circuit, and leave AIM to encourage participation from those that can afford to play with higher stakes. Nothing wrong with either model, though it would appear that FLW's decision (and perhaps there are other factors at play) was to set a price point that wasn't high enough to keep the "pros" on board, but still too high to bring in a lot of "league" participants. Of course I am only basing this on a field of 55, which I find strikingly low - and a casual observation tells me that a number of the top guys that fished both circuits last year are not fishing the FLW - at least this event. Given the choice, they are either (1) not fishing at all (2) fishing the MWC or (3) fishing AIM. Frankly, I believe that there is room in this day and age for ONE pro-am circuit, and the rest of the competitive fishing will be relegated to state circuits or one-off events.

I do appreciate your tournament experience for what it's worth. I have a bit myself.

[Raybob]

I thought this was a great opinion by Robert M :)

Times are tough and just like everything else things have slowed up.I dont fish big tournaments but it looks to me like the FLW might have lowered its entry to try to draw some new blood that were fishing the league and maybe even keep some that they already had.Although they also might loose some that want to chase the bigger pots.Couple other problems is some of these guys that have been around for ever are getting older and tournament fishing isnt as easy as it looks.It also isnt cheap and I believe most contingency money at least the big amounts is based on running a new rig every year.There probably better off being a lttle different than competeing against each other to survive as there is only so much money and time to fish these.Im sure Walleye tournaments will keep surviving on a limited scale but what it lacks is money to support it and a audience.And if you have to use part of the anglers entry to run it, it probably isnt going to go to far.As far as an audience Walleye is a relatively small market for viewers and is kind of tough to actually watch.Unlike other sports where you buy tickets and pile into a stadium to watch the team play you cant do that with fishing.Its even kind of hard to follow it on camera.I was a little skeptical about the AIM deal before it started but after watching the coverage on here (that was very good by the way) I liked it.Not enough to fish it but I liked it.I think anyone that has fished slot tournaments knows there is at least some luck involved in catching the right fish or 1 big fish to win.It also looks good when you release the fish.Maybe less exciting at the weigh in but I dont like to see hundreds of fish drug across the stage by their gills anyway.I just had a little spare time and this is just my opinion.

BTW ...I don't have a true bias ~ last year was the 1st year for the startup aim circuit after the pwt passed on... still kinda a watch n' see aim circuit type thingy for the new format > that's after a year of smoke n' mirror hype w/o answering direct Qs...

[mrbreeze]

"aim circuit type thingy"

"smoke n' mirror hype"

Sorry I confused bias with opinion. Or was it the other way around? I have to give AIM some credit - in my opinion they've answered all of the questions that they've needed to. If people don't like the answers or have a problem with them, then there are ample other circuits to watch and interact with. It will be interesting to see the roster and number of anglers that fish AIM's first event this year. That will certainly be telling about where the "pros" feel their interests can be best represented. It's not a circuit for the weekend angler or somebody looking for a low-cost pro side entry, and was not designed to be. Those guys can fish FLW and MWC or any of the other "circuit thingys" or local one-day events in addition to, or in place of.

[Burr]

Breeze, while I agree with you the new flw price-point probably doesn't work that well for the majority of either the tour or league participants of past years, the new price point and divisions may work for a new market of local to region skilled anglers. I think we can all agree there are many in the local and regional markets that are very good, and competitive fisherman.

So we have a circuit that has appeared to focus on a market that historically was not targeted on a pro-am level. With any business model, a market focus change will take some intestinal fortitude, time, and effort to build. While it does not surprise me to see 55 boats in the current event - 5 years of building upon that market focus may generate the participation levels we would all like to see. Certainly the sponsors would all like to see a larger market to sell their wares. I certainly hope when this decision was made, there was ample consideration of a long term dedication to the new focus.

Additionally, the competitors from the past tour may have to go back to the planning board and design a strategy for the new rules, and potential in payouts. I don't believe it will be possible to spend a week pre-fishing with the reward potential cut down. It seems a few having a hard time by applying the old strategy to the new game. Time for a new strategy from the anglers.

New game, new market, new strategies, I hope it will be given the time to succeed, I certainly feel it will take several years. To me, it feels like it could become the biggest industry game, however it may not be the worldwide best in all regards.

[JLDII]

Spoken like a true bean counter making an analysis!

Face reality everyone, fishing is meant to be a fun family/group past time. NOT some vehicle for a few gifted anglers to earn a fortune getting their faces on magazine covers.

Focus on winning a beer or lunch from your buddy that you share your boat with, and just enjoy life. Tournament fishing as we have been made to believe it might be, is not that, and will never be the same. Sad, but true.

Find your reward in those simpilar times.

[Robert M]

I cant even get my buddies to chip in for gas.Then they use my bait and tackle,drink my beer and take the fillets home with them.Much like tournament fishing.

How ya doing Jack? Still driving the big rigs.Over

[Burr]

Spoken like a true bean counter making an analysis!

Face reality everyone, fishing is meant to be a fun family/group past time. NOT some vehicle for a few gifted anglers to earn a fortune getting their faces on magazine covers.

Focus on winning a beer or lunch from your buddy that you share your boat with, and just enjoy life. Tournament fishing as we have been made to believe it might be, is not that, and will never be the same. Sad, but true.

Find your reward in those simpilar times.

Sooo, Jack - I take it you are going to give up all your sponsor agreements and just head out on the water with me to see who buys the beer? I might have a chance if we go somewhere other than Mille Lacs!

lol... :cheers:
Did you make it home? You've been workin hard, enjoy a few days off.

[JLDII]

Burr, you know as well as I do.....sponsors appreciate guides more than any tournemant fisherman. We actually give people a chance to experience their products, and sell more for them too!

[Robert M]

How many bobbers did you help them sell last year?

[JLDII]

LOL!! 100's