Unemployment rate

[Hollis Uled]

I would like if we could leave politics of of this.

Unemployment rate is nearing 15% in my area,..nasty,..effecting lots of things,..

I think the following is accurate concerning depression days:
Length of time this runs, is of course a big factor.




The unemployment rate for the years 1923-29 was 3.3 percent. In 1931 it jumped to 15.9, in 1933 it was 24.9 percent. It remained at these extremely high levels until 1942, when it dropped to 4.7 percent.



One thing I remember from the PBS series by the economist Milton Friedman was that you can't apply old rules to new times ,..mainly because of shifting attitudes and morals.

I think he used an example that that during the depression someone might knock on your door asking for a job to mow your lawn. Today they might steal your lawnmower and fence it because obviously you have more money/resources than they do and they are entitled to this. I'm not sure just how prevalent this really is but,.. but I think it is probably more today than back in those days.

I hope it turns around soon but I have doubts.
A friend of mine runs a big pallet construction shop and over the years he has given me some interesting and simple curbside information, that has seemed to work better than most economic forecast news... His business falls off 6-8 months before bad times and about the same, when it picks up the economy gets better. I haven't talked to him in the last 6 weeks or so but things were still sparse for him at that time.

[yarcraft91]

I don't know what to make of the unemployment number, other than it is high enough to be a real problem. The official "unemployment number" is based on a number of counting rules, including that people who have given up looking for work are not considered "unemployed", therefore not counted. Also, people who are under-employed (e.g., someone with a college diploma flipping burgers or sweeping floors) are simply counted as "employed". The true numbers for people who would work if they could find a job or could do a more demanding job if one was available- that's probably closer to 25-30% of the workforce.. It's not clear to me whether the unemployment numbers from the 1930's were based on the same counting rules as today, so don't know how to compare them.

[hollis ULed]

Yes,..and isn't it true that now about 50% of adults pay no Federal taxes. That certainly leaves quite a burden on the rest. Of course, we pay a ton of other taxes besides state and Federal ones.

We also have farms collapsing all around us here. Its too bad that all this idle labor couldn't be used to help farmers, farm without so much costs.

[KRAMER2000]

This is a sad state for our country. Seems like the only people that get federal funds for jobs are government employees.( Police, school teachers, highway workers.) Back in late 80's our company grew from 20 employees to well over 150 with jobs credits, new equipment credits, excellerated depriciation on equipment and rolling stock. I guess the people in control think that because you have an extra buck in you pocket that you are WEALTHY. i have had employees for 40+ years with good pensions and they would ALWAYS give the extra time or offert to help out, even if they were puched out. Not today. Everybody is out for themselves. There is a reason that the bond holders in GM got taken out and the unions got a big piece of the company. If you think that is right, hang on. It won't take long before we are a poor FRANCE.:angry:

[Little buddy]

I'm not buying into the whole gloom and doom atmosphere. I see tons of people at the dock in high dollar boats and going out to enjoy themselves. We have a family business and we are doing fine. Every American has tightened their belt and most have prioritized whats important to them. Just because people are not blowing money like rock stars does not mean our economy is collapsing. We need to stick together and help each other through tough times and most of that starts with our families. We don't need three cars and a 3000 sq ft home in this country, we need to embrace our morals and get back to simple. I hate watching the news since they only report the worse in people. I work for the State of Michigan and believe me we have made tons of concessions through wages and medical benefits and yet every time we have a christmas project, back to school project, sick employee, local disaster, United way blah blah blah, these people give until it hurts. I'm proud of our country and countrymen and we will get through the crappy times even if the media reports we won't...

[rbsangler]

Out of respect for the request that politics be left out of this discussion...I cannot make any comment because it is politics that are the direct CAUSE of the unemployment rate. It is a truly sad state of affairs we are being subjected to.

[yarcraft91]

Yes,..and isn't it true that now about 50% of adults pay no Federal taxes. That certainly leaves quite a burden on the rest. Of course, we pay a ton of other taxes besides state and Federal ones.

I believe the actual statistic is that roughly 47% of people pay no Federal income tax. They do pay other Federal Taxes, like Social Security, Medicare, gas taxes, etc.

[sjunlogged]

If you are working things are good, if you are not working it might be quite some time. The 15% or so out of work, many of those jobs no longer exists and companies have become productive with less workers as well...difficult times for some no doubt....sj

[Nimstug]

Related to Hollis' friend's future economic indicator is the demand for cardboard boxes.

I've been trying to get an idea of the unemployment rate for architects and can't find anything specific. From what I've heard and read, it's somewhere from 40% to 50%. The few firms that are hiring are looking for people with 5 to maybe 10 years experience. No need for old coots.

There's a LOT of unused building inventory out there of nearly every building type. I don't see banks lending money until some of that inventory is filled.

On the positive, my hearing with the Department of Labor and my last :censored: employer who owes me ~$13,000 is scheduled for a week from today. Only took a year to get to this point. And I got a call today from the Secretary of State's office with a question so I know my company is almost a go.

Nimstug

Always look on the bright side of life -M. Python

[REW]

Hollis,
I think that if you go back to the internet explosion - then the internet meltdown - then on to the use of easy money to give everyone a house, and the ensuing meltdown you essentially have the reason for current unemployment.

So many folks for so many years lived on "funny money".
i.e. they lived on credit cards, they lived on "appreciation on thier house to unrealistic levels'.

Finally, sanity has returned to the economy.
It never made any sense that folks could earn 20-50% per year on housing.

So, when the housing market corrected - it corrected with a resounding crash.

Folks are saying that houses are not selling. True, they are not selling at the high prices of yesterday. But, if the prices are reduced to appropriate levels for today - generally about 50% of what they were 3 years ago, the houses still say.
But having said that, that is exactly the reason that so many folks are simply walking away from their upside down mortgage.

That is also the reason that little of the federal money for mortgage relief is going used. i.e. what sane person will continue to pay on a $400,000 mortgage, when the house is currently only worth $150,000.

For example, in recent weeks, condos in Florida areas are selling for $25,000.
Three years ago, these same condos were being sold for $250,000.
i.e. the values have fallen by 10X.

The reason that unemployment continues to remain high in many areas of the country, is that for many employers in these parts of the country- there is too much uncertainity. i.e. with the continuous changes in government policies etc. employers are reluctant to put in a big stake of expansion, more jobs etc. because they can't get a good forcast for what is in store for them down the road.

Chin up - and continue to do your best. Eventually things will settle and times will change for everyone.

REW

[rebs]

Yes,..and isn't it true that now about 50% of adults pay no Federal taxes. That certainly leaves quite a burden on the rest. Of course, we pay a ton of other taxes besides state and Federal ones.

We also have farms collapsing all around us here. Its too bad that all this idle labor couldn't be used to help farmers, farm without so much costs.

I am in the 50 that pays federal income tax, state income tax, SSta, Medicare, gasoline tax, you name a tax and I am paying it. I don't make enough to be able to use all the loop holes that the rich get to use. If the millionaires and billionaires were paying the same tax rate as I pay, it would sure help.

as far as jobs, just keep allowing China, Japan and the other countries to flood our market with their goods.

[fireboat]

Hollis,
I think that if you go back to the internet explosion - then the internet meltdown - then on to the use of easy money to give everyone a house, and the ensuing meltdown you essentially have the reason for current unemployment.

So many folks for so many years lived on "funny money".
i.e. they lived on credit cards, they lived on "appreciation on thier house to unrealistic levels'.

Finally, sanity has returned to the economy.
It never made any sense that folks could earn 20-50% per year on housing.

So, when the housing market corrected - it corrected with a resounding crash.

Folks are saying that houses are not selling. True, they are not selling at the high prices of yesterday. But, if the prices are reduced to appropriate levels for today - generally about 50% of what they were 3 years ago, the houses still say.
But having said that, that is exactly the reason that so many folks are simply walking away from their upside down mortgage.

That is also the reason that little of the federal money for mortgage relief is going used. i.e. what sane person will continue to pay on a $400,000 mortgage, when the house is currently only worth $150,000.

For example, in recent weeks, condos in Florida areas are selling for $25,000.
Three years ago, these same condos were being sold for $250,000.
i.e. the values have fallen by 10X.

The reason that unemployment continues to remain high in many areas of the country, is that for many employers in these parts of the country- there is too much uncertainity. i.e. with the continuous changes in government policies etc. employers are reluctant to put in a big stake of expansion, more jobs etc. because they can't get a good forcast for what is in store for them down the road.

Chin up - and continue to do your best. Eventually things will settle and times will change for everyone.

REW

REW, I read your posts and agree with you most of the time but your way off on the housing market correction idea. If you think the homes are overpriced, it's not because the builders are getting fat, it's because the building materials have skyrocketed in the past 10 yrs and too many people were given a home loan they couldn't afford with little or no down payment. I'm a builder and if I sold a home for 50% less than I did 3 yrs ago I would be losing 40% on every home. A sane person might not continue paying on a $400,000 mortgage but an honest ethical person would because they promised to and when they quit paying, you and I have to pick up the bill. If someone paid $400,000 for a house that could have been built for $150.000, they were just plain stupid. I'd like to see someone build a $250,000 condo for $25,000. When something sells for less than it's real value someone lost their a$$. Unemployment remains high because too many jobs left the country. Every day thousands of cargo containers come to this country full of goods, those same containers leave this country EMPTY! I don't like the change I see coming. VOTE-VOTE-VOTE and then join the NRA.

[Seedtree]

I also disagree with REW that the reason businesses are not hiring is due to uncertainty over government policies. What government policies specifically are keeping them from hiring? No, from what I have seen, government has bent over backwards to ensure that businesses are capitalized at record levels. In fact, businesses today are sitting on $trillions on the sidelines. Also, the banks can take money from the fed at zero percent interest and use it to buy treasuries for a no risk arbitrage-type profit. As such, there is a built in disincentive for them to lend money to a risky venture.

No, I believe businesses are not hiring or spending because they are seeing the same thing that consumers are - that a storm is brewing and it could be a bad one. Better to remain lean on the staffing side and keep as much capital on hand as possible to weather the storm.

Without getting political, the main problem the economy faces is that its main driver is the consumer (72% of gross domestic product is consumer spending-related), and the consumer is tapped out and worried about losing his/her job. Once that changes, consumers will start spending and businesses will start hiring.

[T Mac]

Hollis,
Since you asked that this not get political, it makes it tough.
All I can say is the government can't fix this.

The bulk of jobs in this country are historically associated with small businesses.
All that Government can actually do is to help create a business friendly environment for these small businesses. One in which the private sector can envision good potential for success, will make the investments, and create jobs.

This is not case at this time.

[Javelin360]

I won't make this political..! I think all the bums should be thrown out. The sitaution we are in now has been building for years! People keep waiting for the jobs number to go up. Are you kidding me..!

America shifted it's wealth to China, India, & South America. This did not happen overnight. A couple weeks ago there was artical about Brazil and how the economic boom there is like the 1950's in America. China also recently devauled it's currency in fear there economy would be slowing. China has stated they want to be the new super power. **** this was even reported on one of the liberal media outlets and how their millitary has grown dramatically in the last 10 years. Surprise..!

I hear our government say well we need to become more educated because those jobs are lost and won't be coming back. I sure would like to know were the jobs are going to magically appear from...? These idiots..! These mfg plants employee much more then just line workers. There are mfg engineers, QA personnel, planners/schedulers, tool designers, the list goes on. We are losing close to 500,000 jobs every month. It is my understanding we need to "create" just over 300,000 to break even with new people entering the job market, etc. I wish I could be more optimistic. However, until we start filling up empty shipments leaving our harbours "bubbles" like the last two will continue...!

[Hollis ULed]

I realized when I started this thread that it was going to be hard not being political,..most have done really well in doing this.

Another statement from Milton Friedman was that I thought was interesting in which it was stated that only in more recent times, prior to the depression and for a while after ,that few blamed or looked to the government to fix the economy. Apparently we need some regulation Ie the Wall st and Banking mess, but we are probably over regulated in other areas.

I see this morning an (interesting?) article on the Yahoo news home page.

here it is:



By Nick Zieminski

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Workers with specialized skills like electricians, carpenters and welders are in critically short supply in many large economies, a shortfall that marks another obstacle to the global economic recovery, a research paper by Manpower Inc (NYSE:MAN - News) concludes.

"It becomes a real choke-point in future economic growth," Manpower Chief Executive Jeff Joerres said. "We believe strongly this is really an issue in the labor market."

The global staffing and employment services company says employers, governments and trade groups need to collaborate on strategic migration policies that can alleviate such worker shortages. Skilled work is usually specific to a given location: the work cannot move, so the workers have to.

The shortage of skilled workers is the No. 1 or No. 2 hiring challenge in six of the 10 biggest economies, Manpower found in a recent survey of 35,000 employers. Skilled trades were the top area of shortage in 10 of 17 European countries, according to the survey.

While the short-term way to address to shortages is to embrace migration, the long-term solution is to change attitudes toward skilled trades, Manpower argues.

Since the 1970s, parents have been told that a university degree -- and the entry it affords into the so-called knowledge economy -- was the only track to a financially secure profession. But all of the skilled trades offer a career path with an almost assured income, Joerres said, and make it possible to open one's own business.

In the United States, recession and persistent high unemployment may lead parents and young people entering the workforce to reconsider their options.

WELDERS NEEDED

The skilled trades category also includes jobs like bricklayers, cabinet makers, plumbers and butchers, jobs that typically require a specialist's certification.

Older, experienced workers are retiring and their younger replacements often do not have the right training because their schools are out of touch with modern business needs. Also contributing to the shortage is social stigma attached to such work, Manpower argues in its paper published on Wednesday.

A poll of 15-year-olds by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development found only one in 10 American teenagers see themselves in a blue-collar job at age 30. The proportion was even lower in Japan.

Education could address that stigma. Students should be reminded that blue-collar work can be lucrative: skilled plumbers can make upwards of $75,000 a year, Manpower argues.

Overall, Manpower's fifth annual talent shortage survey found 31 percent of employers worldwide are having difficulty filling positions due to the lack of suitable workers available in their markets, up one percentage point over last year.

for a link to Manpower's research papers, click on: http://www.manpower.com/research/research.cfm

AN EMOTIVE ISSUE

Although the proportion of employers seeing shortages is still below pre-recession levels, shortages in some countries are more critical than the global average.

Majorities of those surveyed in Poland, Singapore, Argentina and Brazil reported shortages. In Japan, 76 percent had trouble finding the right workers, the highest reading among the 36 countries and territories.

Examples of successful, targeted migration include an Ohio shipbuilder that brought in experienced workers from Mexico and Croatia, and a French metal-parts maker that hired Manpower to find welders in Poland.

Obstacles to such migration include differing standards for certification in skilled trades, as well as political barriers to immigration, which remains an "emotive" subject in many countries, Manpower's CEO said. Japanese employers, for example, have difficulty attracting skilled workers.

Sweden, on the other hand, is innovative and aggressive about strategic migration, for example by removing obstacles to workers being recertified in their specialty, Joerres said.

(Reporting by Nick Zieminski, editing by Dave Zimmerman)

[rbsangler]

I am in the 50 that pays federal income tax, state income tax, SSta, Medicare, gasoline tax, you name a tax and I am paying it. I don't make enough to be able to use all the loop holes that the rich get to use. If the millionaires and billionaires were paying the same tax rate as I pay, it would sure help.

as far as jobs, just keep allowing China, Japan and the other countries to flood our market with their goods.
It's actually been acuratly said here that 47% of people pay no federal income taxes.....that is true. But it is POOR people who are not paying...the rich pay most of the tax burden in this country (and i know that is contrary to what certain entities have been trying to make us believe for about 50 years now) How about EVERYONE gets a tax CUT? And I am talking about EVERYONE.

[rebs]

It's actually been acuratly said here that 47% of people pay no federal income taxes.....that is true. But it is POOR people who are not paying...the rich pay most of the tax burden in this country (and i know that is contrary to what certain entities have been trying to make us believe for about 50 years now) How about EVERYONE gets a tax CUT? And I am talking about EVERYONE.

I have to disagree with you. There are so many loop holes in the tax system that allow the rich to pay little or no tax. I have a friend that owed 67,000 in back taxes and the IRS settled for 27,000. He makes big money and as this shows he did not pay his share. Do you really think that the rich pay their share, I don't think they do.

As far as poor people paying no income tax ? In NYS unemployment is taxable income, the only ones not paying income tax is the people on welfare

I live on SS and a very modest retirement, I pay income tax every year.

[rrrrrrRon]

The poor pay no tax, the rich pay little if any, and the (rapidly shrinking) middle class picks up the tab.

[doubleheader]

If anyone wants to see why businessmen are concerned just look at the direction the country is heading, then if you want to see where that leads (and at our current pace it's maybe 10 years down the road) look at Europe, specifically Portugal and Spain. I have my own personal opinion as to what's happening under this administration, but it certainly didn't start with this administration. Our government has been overspending for years it's just that recently they've been perfecting it. Soon it will be time to pay the piper, it ain't gonna be pretty, and there will be no avoiding it. That's as non-political as I can get, but folks had better stand -up and be counted come November, it may be our last chance.

Years ago you had to have quite a down payment to buy a car. When that buyer pool dried up the sellers were forced into sign and drive sales agreements. Later the housing market took the same path. Both markets have totally collapsed, why is that?

[Aaron-IN]

I know several people in the construction, plumbing, eletrical business and it is very very very slow here in Central Indiana. I feel for these guys and am blessed to be in a business that is doing exceptionaly well right now. Those unemployment numbers that you see are really not as high as they really are, those numbers don't reflect the people who have pretty much just stopped looking for work. It's bad out there for sure.

[Phil T]

http://cohort11.americanobserver.net/latoyaegwuekwe/multimediafinal.html

It's also in You Tube, just search for "US unemployment map".

MN's color change is dramatic. However, when we were retuning from Mpls last summer, I was listening to MN Public Radio. The person being interviewed pointed out that if those who once worked a bunch of overtime and now get none, and those who were cut from full-time to part-time were added to the official unemployment number, the underemployed in MN would total around 42%. I suspect it's similar in much of the country.

An economist being interviewed on MSNBC (the "Obama Network") was of the opinion that this recession could last longer than the Great Depression because when the employed resume buying, not much of what they'll buy first is made in this country anymore.

[Burr]

I also disagree with REW that the reason businesses are not hiring is due to uncertainty over government policies. What government policies specifically are keeping them from hiring?

There is a current proposal being considered that would limit the number of hours a commercial driver can drive in a day from 11 hours in a 14 hours consecutive span to 10. Additionally, the 34 hour reset to the 60 or 70 hour week is being proposed to increase to 48 hours. Such a law would simply increase the cost of operations for the transportation provider. We are standing at the ready for across the board rate hikes if this goes into law. Uncertainty.

The health care legislation I've studied a fair amount, any projection I make from the available data is an increase in cost to the business health plan. How much is still a question. Uncertainty.

I've also identified a few leading economic indicators over the years from what happens at work with our customers. I agree that there is no indication we are pulling out of our current economic situation at this time. I'd agree we are in a pretty stagnant, no-growth situation for at least another year.

[sjunlogged]

There is a current proposal being considered that would limit the number of hours a commercial driver can drive in a day from 11 hours in a 14 hours consecutive span to 10. Additionally, the 34 hour reset to the 60 or 70 hour week is being proposed to increase to 48 hours. Such a law would simply increase the cost of operations for the transportation provider. We are standing at the ready for across the board rate hikes if this goes into law. Uncertainty.

The health care legislation I've studied a fair amount, any projection I make from the available data is an increase in cost to the business health plan. How much is still a question. Uncertainty.

The health care is interesting, as people may also miss less work if they are getting better or any health care for the first time, I assume your studying looked at increase production of workers as well...sj

[micropterus]

"I would like if we could leave politics of out this. "

You can't :sorry:

[Kruger]

That people think like this and aren't embarressed to type it for eveyone to see is definately part of the problem.


". i.e. what sane person will continue to pay on a $400,000 mortgage, when the house is currently only worth $150,000. "

[fireboat]

Remember that "loud sucking sound" we were warned about? The sound of jobs leaving this country, well, maybe we should have listened.

[rebs]

The poor pay no tax, the rich pay little if any, and the (rapidly shrinking) middle class picks up the tab.

thats it exactly, I am in agreement with you
the middle class is shrinking fast, it is coming down to rich and poor class, no middle class

[guest2]

Where is the group that was all for sending all these overpaid factory jobs over seas, and how much better it would be for everyone. Do you guys still back this plan or has that changed?

A fortune 500 corp closed a plant in my town and many who thought the same were glad to see the overpaid workers lose there jobs. Education was the key they said!

So two years later after getting "EDUCATED" these workers people are now making much less or now unemployed.

The city is a mess!! Schools are being closed, Water rates had to be increased to make up for loss revenue along with electric and gas. Hospital is now in big trouble.

Small business are closing left and right. I guess the overpaid workers just are not spending as much.

Seriously, Do many here still back the plan that it's good for America to send these manufacturing jobs over seas?

[MK guest]

Greed and easy and plentiful credit, coupled with insatiable appetites for mostly unnecessary, imported junk and the mindset of instant gratifation put us where we are today.

Nowdays, many people have realized that they don't need the "latest and greatest" knick-knacks and have stopped buying the stuff that was driving the economy.

The credit pendulum has swung the other way. 5 years ago if you had a pulse you could qualify for a mortgage on a new home. Today you have to prove that you don't need the money before they'll loan it to you. This has killed the housing market and this is one of the few industries that can't (yet) be outsourced to China. Housing and its spinoff economy drives the US. People got home eq. loans to pay off their credit cards so they can run the cards back up and then refi the house to pay off the cards again so they can start the cycle over. They can't spend anymore. Those days are gone.

I don't think the jobless rate is going to change anytime soon and we are headed for a second, larger recession. Easy credit is gone; good jobs are hard to find; interest rates are at historic lows and still no one is borrowing (throwing a party and nobody is showing up). Sounds like Japan's economy that went south in the early 90's and still hasn't recovered. They crashed just after a huge real estate boom. Then their industry went to China; many of their banks failed or were artificially supported by their Gov. At the time the US was preaching to them about the evils of gov't bailouts. Pretty funny. Maybe the US could learn a thing or two. Nah. Not going to happen.

The gov't creates bureaucracies not jobs. Until we cut spending and create incentives for job creation in the private sector (for all businesses, not just the politically correct ones) the US economy will mirror Japan's. We're trying exactly what they did and its not working for us either. Duh?

[Raybob]

Good take MK!

[jet man]

The poor pay no tax, the rich pay little if any, and the (rapidly shrinking) middle class picks up the tab.

Just not true
whos pays income taxes:
Based on adjusted gross income in 2007 for example:
Top 1% $410,000 threshold accounted for 40.42%
Top 5% $160,041 threshold accounted for 60.63%
Top 10% $131,018 threshold accounted for 71.22%
Top 25% $66.532 threshold accounted for 86.55%
Top 50% $$32,879 threshold accounted for 97.11%
Bottom 50% < $32,879 threshold accounted for 2.89%

If the top 1% account for 40.42% of the income taxes paid how can you say the rich pay little if any?
I am not one of the top 1% by the way!

[Aaron-IN]

Those who think that the Rich dont pay any taxes are one of two things, either just ignorant of the tax code or have never been rich. In addition to that let me also add that were in not for the Anti-Corporate America attitude by a not to be named political party in this country jobs wouldn't be flocking overseas. As a private business owner myself I can easily understand why this happens. If the US wants to keep and create more jobs it needs to stop throwing money at the gov't sectors and start providing more incentives to Corporations and small businesses. A good start would be to totally eliminate corporate taxes on profits for any US Corporation or small business that has a place of business in the US and that employs US workers.

Flame away

[Progressive Watchdog]

Count your blessings for what you have now. Go on vacation. Play some golf and basketball. Enjoy the ride. Don't Worry, Be Happy!

[guest2]

<<In addition to that let me also add that were in not for the Anti-Corporate America attitude by a not to be named political party in this country jobs wouldn't be flocking overseas.>>

Sorry ,That just doesn't add up.

When the big push came up to move jobs overseas nothing was said about Anti-Corporate America attitude. It was all about how much more profitable it would be for all Americans to move jobs overseas so we could enjoy lower prices. And the higher profits the corps would make would trickle down to the workers of America. And those that lost their jobs ? Well.. education was the key, the workers were told, is what was needed to get the NEW American jobs.

Did you support this?

[fireboat]

Count your blessings for what you have now. Go on vacation. Play some golf and basketball. Enjoy the ride. Don't Worry, Be Happy!

Now that sounds like a "progressive idea". Lets all keep our heads in the sand while the government continues to destroy the rest of the country. Better wake up America, get informed, VOTE! I told a co-worker years ago, someday we will all be riding bicycles wearing green suits while the Chinese drive our Humves. Guess who is building the GM Hummers?

[Progressive Watchdog]

The health care is interesting, as people may also miss less work if they are getting better or any health care for the first time, I assume your studying looked at increase production of workers as well...sj

Boy, there's a stretch if I've ever seen one. LOL!!!!!

[ZooMNFinancial]

Just not true
whos pays income taxes:
Based on adjusted gross income in 2007 for example:
Top 1% $410,000 threshold accounted for 40.42%
Top 5% $160,041 threshold accounted for 60.63%
Top 10% $131,018 threshold accounted for 71.22%
Top 25% $66.532 threshold accounted for 86.55%
Top 50% $$32,879 threshold accounted for 97.11%
Bottom 50% < $32,879 threshold accounted for 2.89%

If the top 1% account for 40.42% of the income taxes paid how can you say the rich pay little if any?
I am not one of the top 1% by the way!

Take what those taxes are as a percentage of their income. I don't have the statistics right in front of me but I will attempt to dig them up.

[Aaron-IN]

<<In addition to that let me also add that were in not for the Anti-Corporate America attitude by a not to be named political party in this country jobs wouldn't be flocking overseas.>>

Sorry ,That just doesn't add up.

When the big push came up to move jobs overseas nothing was said about Anti-Corporate America attitude. It was all about how much more profitable it would be for all Americans to move jobs overseas so we could enjoy lower prices. And the higher profits the corps would make would trickle down to the workers of America. And those that lost their jobs ? Well.. education was the key, the workers were told, is what was needed to get the NEW American jobs.

Did you support this?

No I didn't support it and if you think there wasn't and still isn't an Anti-Corporate America attitude in this country perhaps it's time you came out of your glass house.

[Kruger]

I believe the real problem is SPENDING. It doesn't seem to matter which party is in charge either.


http://www.heritage.org/budgetchartbook/federal-spending

[jet man]

Take what those taxes are as a percentage of their income. I don't have the statistics right in front of me but I will attempt to dig them up.

I was only addressing the post on the fact that the rich pay little or no taxes which was a comment almost too ridiculous to deserve an answer.
You are addressing another point of discussion all together.

[guest2]

<<if you think there wasn't and still isn't an Anti-Corporate America attitude in this country perhaps it's time you came out of your glass house. >>>


Is there a anti corp. attitude? or have the corps. been anti-America?

[jet man]

Take what those taxes are as a percentage of their income. I don't have the statistics right in front of me but I will attempt to dig them up.

2010 federal income tax rates
0 to 8,375 10%
8375 to 34000 15%
34000 to 82400 24%
82400 to 171850 28%
171850 to 373165 33%
373650 and up 35%

seems to me that as you make more you pay more;feel free to correct me if my numbers are incorrect

[MK guest]

2010 federal income tax rates
0 to 8,375 10%
8375 to 34000 15%
34000 to 82400 24%
82400 to 171850 28%
171850 to 373165 33%
373650 and up 35%

seems to me that as you make more you pay more;feel free to correct me if my numbers are incorrect

They are not incorrect and that is exactly why the US needs a flat tax.

That is, unless one believes that the more you make, the more you should pay for everything. Make a good income, pay $10 for a loaf of bread instead of $2. $10/gallon for gas because you have the gall to make more than your neighbor.

Maybe if the bottom 50% paid some taxes they wouldn't be so quick to elect politicians that constantly raise them.

I predict a GST (Canada), a VAT (Europe), or national sales tax soon. The gov't can't squeeze the upper 50% much more so they'll have to come up with a scheme to get everyone paying.

[Aaron-IN]

<<if you think there wasn't and still isn't an Anti-Corporate America attitude in this country perhaps it's time you came out of your glass house. >>>


Is there a anti corp. attitude? or have the corps. been anti-America?

I suggest you start your own business and find out for yourself.

[bob oh]

what does starting your own business have to do with corporations unless you have enough money to start a corporation. Corporations get more tax breaks than you can count. Let's see, want to build a new building -- oh, we'll give you 10 years of minimal taxes locally, the state will pay you money to come in and give you more tax breaks. Of course you'll make promises for those favors but you'll seldom deliver anywhere near what you promised. Then you'll move unless you get more or you'll get a better deal from another city, another state. Quit bleeding for the corps they do OK.

[Aaron-IN]

what does starting your own business have to do with corporations unless you have enough money to start a corporation. Corporations get more tax breaks than you can count. Let's see, want to build a new building -- oh, we'll give you 10 years of minimal taxes locally, the state will pay you money to come in and give you more tax breaks. Of course you'll make promises for those favors but you'll seldom deliver anywhere near what you promised. Then you'll move unless you get more or you'll get a better deal from another city, another state. Quit bleeding for the corps they do OK.

Thanks, you just proved my point. In the meantime corporations will continue sending jobs overseas.:bangin: