Man, I was out in a friends new 18 foot proguide. What a great boat, set up beautifully, fishes 4 with ease, and just looks great. With the 90 it was alright for performance. Got 34 with 4, gear, trolling motors, batteries, livewell, etc. However, I had a ride in a very similar boat basically the same hull, just with a side console that had a 115 on the back. Man, it got up just that must faster, and topped out at just over 42mph with the same size of load.
I just wish that an 18 foot tiller boat could be rated for the 115 seeing as how they are usually the same weight and size as a 90 anyway.

I couldn't agree more!

It would sell more Pro-Guides, too.

I love tillers but just not enough power on them. I have an 1800 Prov dual console that has a 175 verado bolted on it. I can cruise across the lake at 53 mph yet they oly allow a 90 on the same hull in a tiller model....foolish. You should be able to put a 125 on it...........with power steering anyways.

I couldn't agree more. LUND needs to take a serious look at this.

I couldn't agree more. LUND needs to take a serious look at this.


or there is the 2075 Prov tiller that can have a 250 put on it yet the 18 ft only get s 90 horse....I think its more of a coast guard thing than a Lund thing. I am sure that the boat manufactures would love to strap more HP on their tillers. I thought with all of the advances in tiller steering we would have seen some HP improvements in the tiller lines by now.

If they started putting 125s or115s on the 1825 proguides I would sell my prov in a heart beat jsut to get back into a tiller. Some would say that would be a bad move but I jsut love tillers (hate their lack of HP)

I couldn't agree more. LUND needs to take a serious look at this.

Like I've posted before, there IS an 1825 ProGuide running around with a 115 on it, equipped with a prototype remote-tiller system (example pics below). From what I understand, pretty much all the major hull manufacturers have been given a shot at offering this development, so we'll see who thinks the market will react to a 18'/115hp "tiller" combination. However, like many things, this won't happen without a demand from the marketplace. If the thought of a higher horsepower tiller rig interests you, get your dealer involved and ask him to talk to his manufacturers about it.
HRG

I thought that you might chime in with that photo HRG, but I don't think it is necessary to have to switch to this new technology just for a 115 hp on a 18 foot boat. I mean they already have great hydraulic assist from a couple of sources.

I thought that you might chime in with that photo HRG, but I don't think it is necessary to have to switch to this new technology just for a 115 hp on a 18 foot boat. I mean they already have great hydraulic assist from a couple of sources.

It appears to be easier to develop alternate technologies than convince the USCG to revise the standards.

Like I've posted before, there IS an 1825 ProGuide running around with a 115 on it, equipped with a prototype remote-tiller system (example pics below). From what I understand, pretty much all the major hull manufacturers have been given a shot at offering this development, so we'll see who thinks the market will react to a 18'/115hp "tiller" combination. However, like many things, this won't happen without a demand from the marketplace. If the thought of a higher horsepower tiller rig interests you, get your dealer involved and ask him to talk to his manufacturers about it.
HRG

Very interesting.. Never seen this before.

But ...again, I think Lund should offer 1825 pro Guide with 115 provided it uses the "engine Steer" (Mertens) system or like you show, or something of that nature.
It will sell more 1825 Pro Guides.

Realistically, I wonder how much faster a 18 ft tiller would be with a 115......just a hair over 40 i would think?

That seems odd with a 90hp on the 1825 and I have a 175 on my 2010 with a Merten. You can have a 115 on it with out. The new ones you can use a 200 with Merten. Go Figure. Thats why I went to a 2010.

Paul

Realistically, I wonder how much faster a 18 ft tiller would be with a 115......just a hair over 40 i would think?

the report I got was 48, but lightly loaded. But you're right, the better holeshot would be nice, provided you resist the temptation to "prop it" for top end.

HP ratings are designed for a specific hull design, hull thickness, length, width, and weight distribution. Example: A tiller arrangement has more weight aft - including the driver and no console. A boat with too much HP will sail fish on your head. That and if you have too big a motor, if you let more horses out of the barn than is called for, the torque on the hull will pull the hull/boat apart. . . maybe not right away, but the stress over time will destroy the watercraft.

06 115 OPTI ,1800 Explorer 45 mph lite load 40 mph 3 guys load up 4 batteries 1/2 tank fuel lots of gear.

I think on the 1825 90hp is just fine. I don't think they should go any higher. Get some guy who may think he has a lot of experience with a tiller and a little heavy weather ..... disaster! In rough weather holding on to a wheel vs a tiller(even with a steering system) is a whole different animal. Bouncing up and down and trying to steer a tiller is much more challenging than a wheel boat. My 1825/90hp with two guys pops right up on plan and top ends at 36+. With four guys it takes a little more to get up but still keeps at 33+ on the top end. Just my .02:)

HP ratings are designed for a specific hull design, hull thickness, length, width, and weight distribution. Example: A tiller arrangement has more weight aft - including the driver and no console. A boat with too much HP will sail fish on your head. That and if you have too big a motor, if you let more horses out of the barn than is called for, the torque on the hull will pull the hull/boat apart. . . maybe not right away, but the stress over time will destroy the watercraft.

the boat pulling apart is the least of the worries. My 1800 prov can a 175 verado on it. Its heavey and there is a 9.9 back there. The same exact hull (thickness, width, ect) in a tiller model is not going to fall apart becasue there is a 115 tiller on it.

It takes alot of horses to stay on plain in rough water. I had 1800 ProV with 75hp before I purchased my 2010 ProGuide with the 175hp Merten steering. I also had smaller lighter boats before that, all tillers. I'll tell you this much it's not how fast but being able to keep boat on top at 12mph, trimmed down, plus take the torque off that tiller handle in 3&4 footers plus the rollers on any lake. I'm on Lake Erie alot of the time so that is what I judge it by. The torque on that 75 was bad, now on plain trimmed up no problem. With the Power steering on the big motor you can pay attention to what you are suppose to in that kind of conditions. My big boat is ran at between 25-35mph depending on water conditions when they allow. It will do 48, but why? 30mph is so much more plesant versus going so fast you are on edge. Hole shot and rough water is how I judge a boat. I would think that 1825 Pro Guide would be a great boat with some sort of steering help, then you could run a bigger motor.

Paul

do you really think the boat companies are building the tiller hull any different than the same model wheel boat?
they are not.

good luck frank

Some are narrower, but aside from that, they are built the same. For example Lund pro guide vs explorer, the pro guide is narrower.

I will say if my 1825 Pro Guide had a 115 on it. Running in rough water would be better as more power to keep the boat up on the waves. Also being able to run about 4000 RPM's and still keep most of the hull out of the water would be nice.
Now mine does great with both livewells full and even 100 lbs of fish in them along with an extra person. Or even 3 big Men 6'2" 240, 6ft 225 and 6'7" and 300 along with 50 to 75 lbs of fish it still does a good job. But with a 115 it would be it.
I do know of one 18ft tiller thats running a 115 and it brought that boat alive its a different boat with the 115 then it was with the 90. Never know there may be one more within the next year or so with a 115 also.
Pete

Once i get married and have kids I am going back to a tiller so I can keep an eye on the kids or at least that will be my excuse to the wife for a new boat! LOL

I am hoping by then the 18 ft tillers will have 115s on them. I am also hoping that they are making a 115 verado ny then:bigsmile:

Once i get married and have kids I am going back to a tiller so I can keep an eye on the kids or at least that will be my excuse to the wife for a new boat! LOL

I am hoping by then the 18 ft tillers will have 115s on them. I am also hoping that they are making a 115 verado ny then:bigsmile:

Teamlund,
Be careful what you wish for. Here's what happened the last time I took my kids out fishing!
HRG

Teamlund,
Be careful what you wish for. Here's what happened the last time I took my kids out fishing!
HRG

haha that will be my sleeping. I will have them checking all the lines for weeds. They wont have time to sleep......Heck, they might not even have time to fish with all the yard work they will have to do! LOL

This is the first time that I've seen the tread

As a owner of a Alumacraft TP 185 tiller with a 90 Yamaha
I'd think a 115 on a 18'would be very close to a perfect tiller

Warrior did have a 18' rated for a 115

This is the first time that I've seen the tread

As a owner of a Alumacraft TP 185 tiller with a 90 Yamaha
I'd think a 115 on a 18'would be very close to a perfect tiller

Warrior did have a 18' rated for a 115

Try 140.

Seems like the "remote" tiller would remove the advantages of instantaneous steering response, which is why i choose a tiller in the first place. this is just a stearing wheel in the back fo the boat.

Like I've posted before, there IS an 1825 ProGuide running around with a 115 on it, equipped with a prototype remote-tiller system (example pics below). From what I understand, pretty much all the major hull manufacturers have been given a shot at offering this development, so we'll see who thinks the market will react to a 18'/115hp "tiller" combination. However, like many things, this won't happen without a demand from the marketplace. If the thought of a higher horsepower tiller rig interests you, get your dealer involved and ask him to talk to his manufacturers about it.
HRG


These pictures are of a Skeeter boat, must be a 17'. I have a WX2000T with a 115 and get about 38 top end, excellent hole shot. I put a hydrofoil and a 4 blade prop and it works great. You can put a 150 on it with hydraulic steering. How fast does one need to go?

Seems like the "remote" tiller would remove the advantages of instantaneous steering response, which is why i choose a tiller in the first place. this is just a stearing wheel in the back fo the boat.



Not true!

Real time steering with no hesitation.

I had a chance to play with this new proto type at the Walleye Central Midwest Get together.

[QUOTE=walleyeguide;1238619]do you really think the boat companies are building the tiller hull any different than the same model wheel boat?
they are not.

Not really, It's all about weight distribution while running. I said that, but apparently you didn't pick up on same.

Everybody's always in a rush to go fast and frankly over power everything in life. I wish all of you "God Speed".

In almost all of the models discussed here it isn't about whether the hull and or transom are built strong enough. It is all about the the way the Coast Guard makes the manufacturers calculate the horsepower rating. Most manufacturers are at max and can't go higher even if they wanted to. The calculations are complicated and take into account much more than length and width. Keep dreaming and maybe someday the Coast Guard will sympathize!

My personal take - Ranger's 618T would be as close to perfect for my style of fishing IF it was rated for the 115 hp powerplant. Not for speed but for when you get caught on big water and need the power to control your bow. I would feel 100% comfortable fishing any FLW Tour or AIM water in the 618T IF and only IF I had 25 more ponies on the back. And of course power steering..... I love fishing big water (LOTW, Erie, GB, etc) but wow does the sphincter get a little tight when you are 15 plus miles out and Ma nature blows up quick. Oh well, bigger fish to fry.....

Until then I'll keep saving a TON of money by using very little fuel or oil compared to the 225 and 250 ponies I used to feed fuel to.....

Tight lines - Kurt

To reply to your original question, if the rating is 90hp, pick the 90hp engine with the most displacement(cubic inches or liters) you can find. More displacement = more torque. RPM's don't have that much effect. As the auto racer Dan Gurney is famed for saying, "There's no replacement for displacement."
The performance difference you described is probably more the result of the side console and weight balance difference than the engine differences.

I agree I hav e a 618T with 90 Suzuki, titan steering, great boat! but a 115 would be that much greater I think? the 90 is a heavy motor, and I do have minor porposin g issues, nohing that I can 't deal with but with a little more oompf it may be better

That is just it Dave, the 115 weighs no more than the 90 does, but it will allow for that much more jump when you need it out of the hole, in big water, or just want to get somewhere a little quicker. I wonder if the coast guard actually uses Motor SPecs when determining the max hp. For all we know the formula that they use to assess the boat is based on motor technology from who knows when. (maybe somebody on here actually knows).
I know that when the big four strokes came out that they must have had to account for that, but technology is getting better, and with the new four's and the DI 2's there is a lot more jump in smaller packages.
Anyway, I just know that a 1825 Proguide (black) with a 115 Opti would be my dream rig. Maybe someday. Although it may be easier to sway the coast guard ratings than my wife.

I heard at Cabelas that the new 2011 Competitor 185 tiller is possible 115. Not a dealer thing, but Coast Guard regs but they are pushing it...whether it happens, dunno.

Phil-Actually it's just the opposite size of engine = greater torque. Lighter engine with higher RPMS = more speed. That's what the difference is between the 90 & 115 HP. The motor developes more power from the RPM,s.

I totally agree the 618 could or should be rated higher same as the older 680T & 681T. They were under powered with a 60HP. But back in the day the manufactures only put a tiller handle on upto a 60HP.

The Coast Guard Regulations pertaining to tiller steered horsepower ratings for boats under 20 feet in length have been in existence for a long time. Those regs. were created way back when a round bottom 16' Lund aluminum boat was considered absolute state of the art cutting edge technology. Since that time hull designs, hull integrity, flotation and tiller steering systems have changed and advanced tiller boats dramatically. Are the Coast Guard Regulations pertaining to this subject ancient and outdated? In a word, YES! Technology in tiller boats has certainly moved forward. The question is? When will the Coast Guard move forward and update these ancient tiller regulations? My advice? Don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen. Right now the Coast Guard has more important fish to fry.

I have a Lund 1700 Explorer tiller with a 75 E-TEC hanging on the transom. WOT gives me 37 MPH. For me, 30 MPH is a comfortable speed. Any faster, without a winshield to duck behind, gets to be uncomfortable. This is just my own personal preference. However, I've heard that 115 E-TEC is one sweet engine.

I think that it is not just about top end, but enough power to get up on plane quickly and hold the bow in rough water. Especially when running the four strokes who are missing the low end grunt of a 2 stroke. I have heard the 115HO is putting out closer to 126hp, so putting that on a 618T would be a sweet option!!!

Also BW with a 90 a guy still has to really consider every item that goes in the boat, I mean if you fish four, and have all your batteries as well as trolling motors, and gear and coolers etc. getting on plane is still tough. This is for me the biggest reason to have the 115, not necessarily for the top end (heck I cruise most places at around 24-26 mph) but for the power to haul a decent load with ease.

I'm with you on that BW. Whenever there's a choice always opt for the H.O.

Also BW with a 90 a guy still has to really consider every item that goes in the boat, I mean if you fish four, and have all your batteries as well as trolling motors, and gear and coolers etc. getting on plane is still tough. This is for me the biggest reason to have the 115, not necessarily for the top end (heck I cruise most places at around 24-26 mph) but for the power to haul a decent load with ease.

I'm with you there I run mine now at 4000 RPM's and even with a 115 would for the most part still run about the same speed. But when you fill both livewells on mine plus the bait well and then add around 1000 lbs of people 3 to 4 and then fill both wells with fish the 90 has all it cares to push. I have gotten where I try and keep the boat cleaned out of any items I don't think I will use that day even try to run only a half of a tank of fuel.
But with the 115 I would haul what I may need as a lot of days I may swap what I fish for 3 or 4 times in a trip. Limit out on one kind of fish then move on to the next one.
Pete