Why Lure Manufactures Use The Pros.

[RUDY (Pas Fishing Lures)]

Let Me Tell You About Fisherman.

Were a Manufacturer of Walleye Lures,have been around for over 14 years. A few months back we put a message on this Web site asking for a few honest fisherman to test a new line of walleye products and give us a response from time to time on how these lures were working and what their results were.We had I believe between 400 and 500 replies all asking for the free lures and telling us that they would really appreciate the opportunity of working with us etc.
We picked about 30 fisherman in different parts of the country and sent each one about $100.00 of free product to try.They were told in advance who they were and what we expected from them in return.
All we asked of them was to let us know when they received them and when they thought they would start using them.Over the past two months we have only heard from about 20 of the 30 fisherman we sent product to,and out of the 20 only about half of them are really keeping in touch with us and are telling us how they are using the lures and what their results have been.To these men and women we say thank you,and if there is anything else we can do for you give us a call. To all the others that got the free lures and never replied enjoy them with our blessing.
Maybe now fisherman will see why most companies deal with the Pros.from them we at least get something in return.Who knows one of these lures just might make them $50000.00 richer.

Why did we try just average fisherman this time instead of our Pro Staff,It's because we wanted fisherman who fish certain areas all year long,and most of our Pros move around to much to give us the results we were looking for.
Is this typical of fisherman,or just bad choices on our part, WHO KNOWS.

Rudy (Pa's Fishing Lures)

[Mike Michalak]

Rudy,

Anytime you offer something "free," the same addage applies..."you get what you pay for."

While a good number of those 500 who contacted you may have been legit, others were looking for a handout. We have a pretty large and well documented pro/field staff at FHS. Nothing leaves here without the proper paperwork.

We get about a dozen or more inquiries a WEEK looking for "sponsorship" or products for "endorsement." Depending on where they are geographically and how all of our forms are filled out determines if they're best suited to represent us.

It appears you were just field testing. Maybe you'd like to try the program offered by the North American Fishing Club? They put products into the hands of qualified members who rate the items. Might be worth a shot for you.

I'd be more than happy to email you what we use to qualify anglers seeking to use/represent our company and its products. Things can get carried away quickly. And when you only manufacture one product, you have to retain some control and accountability. I'm glad to see you got two-thirds of the group to respond.

[wallytap]

I am not one of the "field testers" and did not ask for the lure. But here in Wis. the season just opened on Sat. maybe people are just now getting out to try your baits. I'd give folks alittle "season" time to try the baits.Most folks have full-time jobs and can't fish everyday.This is only the 3rd day of the season here, give it time....Yea, I'll try em' and I guarantee a report, and I'm not a "Pro" either. Be patient.

[Peanut]

Hello Rudy. I didn't see your original post - too bad - I would have been very interested in your offer. Anyway, I'm sorry that things have not yet worked out for you - but as one post said, let's hope that some of this can be blamed on the just-opened season in many parts of the US, and the poor weather many of us have experienced.

If you have any interest in a "field test" in Western Canadian waters - I'd be extremely pleased to be of assistance. Our season just opened on Saturday, but most lakes still have ice, so mid-May would be a realistic starting time to fish.

Anyway, best of luck with your continued research - should you want to reach me, email me at dfahl@continuity.ca.

derrek.

CANADIAN WALLEYE OPEN UP AND SAY "EH"!

[Walleye Express]

Rudy.
I'm not going to touch the (why) few of the free lure receivers have not stayed in close touch with you. I will say that giving things away free, no matter what the item, draws a crowd. I'm thinking that a simply request for feedback on your lures, by you and your company to people using the WC messaage board would have been just as productive or moreso. It's my guess that many of the receivers of the lures were first time users of them. And as you have to know by now, the stock version of the Pa's is generally modified before use, or at least in my area of Saginaw Bay. I've used your product probably for the better part of 9 years, or when it first hit the counters in my area. I guess my only complaint about the lure is that it seems to spin when trolled to fast. Of course this is after the single hook removal and the harness add-on. I'm guessing that this would throw your obviously tested/proven running dynamics off a might. I worked with Storm Lures for 12 years, promoted their product through writings and helped them develope and refine some lure-to-hook catching, holding and running design problems. And no, this is not a ploy for free lures. I have all the Pa's I'll ever use. Fact is, I still use the Tot's 99% of the time on my charters, as keeping up with and running 10 lines with meat would kill me in one day. End-Game, I think all you really had to do was ask.

[curt quesnell]

Rudy,

As stated above 2/3s response isnt too bad. I think using "Pros"
is done so often because it makes pretty good sense. The "Pros"
put a good test on everything they can get their hands on and are
used to filing reports.

A couple of other choices..

Hire your own field test staff (pretty expensive)

Dont overlook the guides. Just like the Tournament Pros they will
put a product thru its paces and will fiddle and carve till they
get it the way they want it. They may be fairly reliable on filing
reports too.

Also stated above, fishing season opens this weekend in Minnesota
so anyone from here hasnt had a chance yet.

I hope you wind up with some satisfaction, and thanks for thinking
of us as testers for you products.



Curt Quesnell

[jbuck]

Rudy; The season doesn't open in the Bay De Noc area until the 15th of May, and it's illegal to practice fish for a specie of fish that is out of season. I don't have any of your lures. I just wanted to let you know why you haven't gotten any responses from my neck of the woods. Good luck on the tests.

[Rudy (pas lures)]

This had nothing to do with our lure line,it was about a new line of spoons that we came out with. What really got us was that at the beginning all we wanted to know from the people we sent them to is if they got them,and about when they would start to use them.I'm an old man been fishing a lot of years,and i know when a spoon bite starts in our area,and since I do most of my fishing on Erie I know its still a little early.Was I asking to much.

Rudy Pas Lures.

[Rudy (pas lures)]

If you would like me to I would be glad to send you a video of our lures being tested in a swimming pool,it will give you a better idea of how fast they can to pulled and how true they run.This under one condition,you have to send the tape back. I only have two of them left.

Rudy (pas lures)

[BlackSilver]

I'm in Minnesota (I'm not part of your test) and the season isn't even open here, so if you have any of the lures in the hands of Minnesota fishermen, expect to start hearing something in a couple of weeks.

SET the hook!!!

Hans/MN
#0000

[Walleye Express]

Rudy.
The Pa's I was using when it started to spin was a modified version. I'm sure you guys solved this problem on the drawing board before manufacturing. We take the big #2 hook off the back and attach a 3 to 4 foot leader and harness in it's place. This I'm sure, would destabilizes the lure to a degree. I have to admit I never knew you guys made spoons. These may find a nitch in the Saginaw Bay as well, as a few tournaments were won last year using the spoon/harness rig. Kinda funny, I guess all your products will be doomed to loose their original back hooks in this area. But a man has to use what works. Good luck on future endevors.

[lobo1]

Sounds to me that Rudy understands when fishing season starts !! He makes fishing lures not baking pans...!
Looks to me that he wanted to know when the "good folks at walleye central" received their lures and planned to use them ---------- and didn't.

I remember the original post and the MANY MANY replies it received. I think Rudy asked for acknowledgement upon receipt and didn't get it............ well, if it were me, I would first contact these people to see what happened and if no help, would post their handles for all of us to see ---------- and maybe we could ask !

I would like some free lures too.........plz send them to .;.;.......

Sorry --------- I'm a hard asse

lobo

[Rudy Pas Lures)]

I would never post their names,I would just call it a bad experience.I'm up in the years and at times i forget how some people are now days. I still remember when a mans word meant something abd a hand shake was respected. O Well life still goes on,and i keep learning.

Rudy Pas Lures)

[Fish Hound]

Pay attention people. He is complaining because the people that he sent $100 worth of lures to, Did Not have the common courtesy or decency to inform him that they received them. And that is what he asked in his original post. Also to notify him when they would start using them. He knows that there are different seasons throughout the US. He just wants to know when you will start fishing in your area. Just because season opens whenever, doesn't mean everyone will be out on opening day or week. Some may not get out for weeks after the opener, due to work, weather whatever. I also remember when a mans word and/or handshake was worth something.

See ya on the water.
The Fish Hound

[Miller Mi.]

Rudy, I'm sure you, as a manufacturer realize that there are a few low life individuals that love the free lures. Instead of being honest and using them as intended, sell them at a lower price. There is always the story that the company "just sent them and I have no interest in them" It is unfortunate but it happens. This type of preson hurts all of the honest and caring people that would field test your products as expected. I'm sure that most of the lucky ones that were selected for your testing will report their results but there will be a few of the other types involved also. Larry

[Troutaholic]

Rudy,

I haven't been able to find your lures in the Winona, MN area....where is the nearest dealer.

I'll tell ya what.....if I find a dealer, I'll buy a couple of your lures and report back to you after a couple of outings to tell you how they did on the Mississippi!!

You seem to be a straight-up guy that feels that fishermen have done ya wrong...sorry....one fisherman isn't going to change you mind, but I'm willing to go an extra mile to try!!!

The area is Winona, Minnesota!!!!! By the way, do you have a spoon in "willowcat grey" color(lol). :)

[Homer]

Rudy:

A little additional communication between you and those that received the lures may go a long way in getting you the feedback you requested. Just as your message here led to some confusion (it appeared to me that you were unhappy that so few people were reporting their results of using the lures, while others read it differently), many people may assume that they only need to send feedback after they have started using the lures. It never hurts to over-communicate when you're asking for information. I suggest a simple follow-up e-mail to the testers explicitly asking:

1. Have you received the lures?
2. When do you plan to use them?

If you don't get better feedback after that, then I'll be disappointed in my fellow anglers. Until then, I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.

[Rudy (Pas Lures)]

If you go back to the original message you will see that all we were asking the people we sent product to was did you receive the spoons and when did they thing they would start using them.
I am not going to hound someone over some spoons,if they E Mail us thats fine,if they dont I'll just mark it up as another learning experience. Like my dad also said,bless his soul,if you dont learn something every day you wasted the day But like most people you dont realize what he was saying until you become that age.

Rudy (Pas Lures)

[wheels]

Great idea Homer.

Rudy,
I am one of the testers and it was never communicated to me that you wanted to know when I received them. I must have missed your post. All I was told is to let you know my success with them, and what colors worked best. In fact, I was contacted by you at almost 10:00 one evening. In our brief conversation you told me you would contact me when spring grew closer with more details and let me know when they would be shipped. That never happened. Seems you are wrongly accusing some of us "average fisherman" of lack of communication and integrity. I appreciate and am excited about the opportunity you have given me to help test your lures. I have every intention of testing the lures that were given to me and reporting to you the results of my testing. If you wish to receive more than that from me, please contact me. heathwheeler@yahoo.com My word means something!

[Skeeter]

Well said Rudy, your dad was a man of wisdom!

[Fshngyd]

Rudy,

I tend to agree with Wheels, you sent me a box of the spoons and yes I did receive them. I have not been able to use them as of yet, but I have plans to give them a try very soon. In our conversation that we had you indicated to let you know of what kind of success I had with them as well as the best colors. As I said I have not been able to use them yet, so I have no report. Maybe you should have put a note inside the box to let us know exactly what you were trying to accomplish, then I am sure you would have gotten exactly what you wanted. The last thing that I wanted from this was to upset you (Rudy), or be categorized as a freeloader, therefore because I did not do what you expected me to do, I can return the spoons to you postage paid by me if you would like. Please let me know if you would like me to do this, otherwise I will use them as planned and report back to you. Thanks.

[Not Me]

I'm not a pro, or a tester, just a fisherman. After reading Rudy's post's I will definetly stick with those Stinger spoons.

[Rudy (Pas Lure)]

I remember the conversation well,and believe me when I say your not one of the people I was talking about.
Glad to let everyone know that.

Rudy

[Rudy (Pas Lures)]

I also have talked to you and knew what you were planning to do and about when you would be using the spoons.I knew and believe it or not still remember the conversation.
I have no problems with any of the people I have talked to,except the ones that never answered our E Mails just to let us know they received the product.This is the problem,all we want to know is did you get the spoons,and when do you think you will start using them.
The prople i am hearing from are the ones i know have the spoons,i would like to hear from the group that got them and still havent taken the time to let us know.

Rudy (Pas Lures)

[Hooper]

Do you feel the manufacturer is asking to much,I dont With an attitude like yours he probably wouldnt want you either,I know i wouldn't

Hooper

[charlie 909]

By your answer you make me think that you might be one of the guys he is talking about. Are you hoping by saying something like that stinger might send you some free lure to.

Charlie 909

[David Anderson]

Rudy,

Marketing 101. 30 people, $100 worth of product each, not a very big sample, even if they agreed to help. It is almost impossible to cherry pick a group of people to do an honest evaluation and get unbiased results including 100% participation. Given any group, I would bet that a 10% response rate would be very acceptable. That means 3 people, if you take in all the factors that make people respond or not respond. Maybe they just don't have anything to report. Why not go to a RCL, PWT, or other tourney and give them away to the pro's and am's along with a post paid card with an eval and a reason to respond? I have given alot of samples away in my life and 95% of the time, when asked to provide feedback, the answer is "Dave who?". Good luck and I hope your lure becomes a success.

[Rudy (Pas Lures)]

Dave.
Let me tell you how our message was posted over 2 months ago.The post read,Pas Fishing Lures was looking for some honest fisherman to test the new colors we were painting our spoons in and tell us what colors were working in there location the best,area,water conditions etc.We asked for fishermaen who do a lot of trolling with spoons ,about the colors they found worked the best for them in there specific area.What we wanted was fishermen who fish around the same area all year.We have our own Pro Staff that helps us in a lot of ways,but you cant expect them to use the spoons when the area they may be going to is best noted for a leech bite or a crawler harness.After all they are trying to win a tournament,and possibly take home a nice check.If the guys didn't want to this and in return get $100.00 of lures for free,they didn't need to reply..We tried after reading many,many replies from fisherman asking to be a part of this program and thought we picked out the ones that would really do what they said.
We now know that we made some bad choices but we also know from some of the people we have talked to we have also made some very good choices.MORE GOOD THAN BAD I THINK.i KNOW WHAT YOUR TRYING TO SAY AND I APPRECIATE YOUR INPUT.

[ufda]

So, maybe they didn't receive them???????

[Info Commercial]

This Thread is getting old. Is it possible that because we can no longer advertise or show web pages that this is the new ploy for free advertising? Woe is me, some guys didn't call me, buy my spoons.

Let's move on. If the bloodsuckers didn't respond after this lengthy thread they never will.

[sib]

>Let's move on. If the bloodsuckers didn't respond after this
>lengthy thread they never will.

I can agree it's time to move on, but just wanted to point out Pa's is a paying sponsor of Walleye Central. If it weren't for companies like his and many more, we wouldn't have an opportunity to have this great exchange of information. I wasn't part of the product trial, but I'll be buying some of Pa's lures to try out this year, as I've heard many good things about them.

I've noticed quite a few of the advertisers also post here and answer questions on their products. I can think of no better relationship between producer and end user. In this situation we have the producer taking direct feedback from the end user and making product modifications on the input the end user shares.

Given how many feel about what happened at storm, including myself, I appreciate a manufacturer who is interested in what you and I think.

[Info Commercial]

Sib,
You're absolutely right! On ALL counts, I totally agree. I apologize if it appeared that I was ripping on Rudy. It was my small attempt at humor after all the ugly threads that have appeared on WC lately.

I guess I need to work on my humor skills.

Rudy, I'm sorry if I offended you. We don't need any more ripping here.

But I do hope that we all move on.

I'm going to shut up and fish now,

bye

[Al]

Back to perceived value...with a twist. Any time you offer something, people perceive value somewhat based on what they have in it. It would be wise to get something from them up front...maybe shipping, lures at a fraction of the price...but not free. You might consider charging 50% of the price, then refunding all of it or part of it later, after you receive the response back at a later date. Then the bloodsuckers end up paying for some of the research you did get.

[GetReel2]

Hey Rudy,

Give me a call or ask "Sweets" for my # . I can make some more copies of those tapes for ya. Shoot me an Em getreelcms@aol.com.

Chris
West Cleveland Walleye Association

[T.J.Guest]

Maybe i'm wrong but no where have i heard any name metioned for the spoons/If you know tell me i might want to buy some and try them myself.
T>J>

[Rudy (Pas Lure)]

If you think we were trying to promote the spoons your wrong.Yes we feel we make a very fine product but its not called a Pas Spoon,it does have a name. At no time did we or anyone call it by its name,and i"m glad about that.We did everything so that we didn't come on as an advertisment.All the article was designed to do was to inform fisherman why we as manufactures do what we do. I'm sure each and every other manufature has reasons of their own.I told you mine.
I feel like you,I said my piece now lets drop it.

Rudy

[ezmarc]

Rudy,

Gee, I hope I'm not on your **** list! I got the lures and did e mail you, hope you got it, cause there was no confirmation. I even used one in desperation Sunday during a tourney with a 3 way rig, even though it's a little early yet for the typical spoon bite. I'll let you know. The bite should be in your area real soon now!

[Rudy (Pas Lure)]

ezmarc.
There is no problem with you,i knew i would hear from you when the weather got better.But if your weather is as bad as our it may be July or August before the fishing season really turns on.

Rudy

[Skeeter]

Rudy, I couldn't find your email address anywhere. Anyway today I received my box of Pa's lures. The new colors really look great to say the least! Will be putting them to work very soon here on Saginaw Bay. Thanks so much. Nels