Why do lost hikers tend to walk in circles?

[Silentsixty]

I know I'm way off topic, tried a more appropriate forum and couldn't post. Since I know there are some great minds here... I appreciate your tolerance.

I believe I have read that the reason people tend to walk in circles when lost is because most folks have one leg that is slightly longer than the other. I can document that 3 out of 5 have functional discrepancies in leg length & the tendency of a lost person to travel in a circle. I just can't put the two together. I suspect the answer may be in the Wilderness Route Finder by Calvin Rutstrum (1967) but I don't want to buy the book to win an office bet (no $, just my credibility as triva king).

If anyone can point me towards a link or whatever I will be very appreciative & will wish good things for them. I've always been able to document any facts I spout off with but I'm stuck on this one. I don't mind being wrong if there is another explanation.

Thanks and best wishes,
SS

[sib]

I haven't an answer, but I have a hard time thinking leg length discrepancy is the reason.

But, If someone was lost without any modern navigation tools, what would they use for a navigation tool? The logical assumption would be they would use celestial bodies for nav. tools. What are the movement of these celestial bodies? Elliptical, they appear to travel in circles(earths rotation).

Polaris the north star is so close to the earths axis that even with the earths rotation it still is an excellent nav. tool, but it's amazing how many people don't know which star it is. Many think it's the brightest "star" in the sky, when infact, the brightest bodies in the evening sky are actually planets.

So, my theory is people when lost often choose a moving body for a nav. tool and as that body moves, they are drawn off course.

I don't think this topic is too far of base for this board. Poor visibility and equipment failure and anyone of us could be scratching our head as to which way the launch is.

I'm interested in what others have to say on this.

[Homer]

According to Robert Schleip, we all have a dominant leg that is stronger the other (just like being left or right-handed) and tends to take longer strides. Oddly enough, this stronger leg actually tends to be shorter than the other, as the extended use wears it down over time.

http://www.somatics.de/DominantLeg.htm

Curiously enough, there may be an evolutionary reason for this. According to Erik Jonson, animals have 'learned' to walk in circles to keep us from wandering too far from home.

http://shop.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbninquiry.asp?isbn=0743222067


Boy, the things you can find when you start searching on the 'net.

[Unky Mer]

Am I being to flippant to say if they didn't walk in circles they wouldn't be lost?

[FJH1]

I don't know sib. Even if someone were to follow what they thought was Polaris, but maybe they picked Kachob by mistake I don't think they'd walk in circles. If they were in the northern hemisphere, given the latitude of viewing I think they would still go in roughly a north heading, with slight deviations. They would walk roughly in circles if they were on the earth's northern axis and picked a star around Polaris :-). The stars "move" (they are actually "fixed" points, the earth rotates) in the evening sky and as the earth moves along the ecliptic with the other planets different stars, constellations and planets come into or go out of our nighttime view. However, if someone were to accidentially pick the brighest "star" to follow at this time of the year they would probably pick Venus in the early evening and Jupiter later. They would still move in a west direction, not in circles. If they picked Sirius, Arcturus or Procyon they'd probably move in an arched south to west direction, but probably not in circles if they were following the stars. I guess we'd better just hope our lost hikers know how to navigate the night sky :-) Interesting topic that I have no idea what the answer is :-).

Best Regards,

FJH

[SUPERTROLLER]

I hope you're an Astronomer or NASA Enginneering Specialist. If not, you might have missed your calling. WHEW! How can you possibly know this stuff? Some of those stars you named, I never knew even existed. You win the trivia award in this category as far as I'm concerned.

[FJH1]

Maybe I missed my calling :-) I dabble in a LITTLE amature astronomy, usually in the winter when the lakes are locked up in ice, but it's fun to drag out the scope year round. But honestly, the stars that I listed Sirius (magnitude -1.6), Arcturus and Procyon are pretty much the brightest stars in the sky this time of the year. However, like sib said, the planets are super bright as well (Jupiter has a magnitude of -2.0, and Venus -3.9) actually brighter than the brightest star! Hey SUPERTROLLER, get out a good pair of binoculars, look in the lower western evening sky and find the two brightest points of light, one will be Venus and one will be Jupiter. Venus is super bright, Jupiter not as bright. Look at Jupiter, you might see several of it's moons. It's a pretty cool thing to see. Saturn and it's rings are awesome. Saturn and Mercury will be right next to Venus...but you'll probably need a scope to see much.

Best Regards,

FJH

[Walizz 1]

My sister has a history of back problems. The Dr. checked her out and found that 1 leg was a tad shorter than the other. She's never been lost but her name is still Eileen.

[SUPERTROLLER]

My daughter and I were out a couple weeks ago for a night when a lot of the planets were aligned in a row with the moon in the center. We had a clear night for veiwing and it was great for her to point out what she learned in her astronomy class this semester in school. I don't dabble in this field but try to remember from High School many many years ago. I can still get the big dipper but it's getting foggy after too much else. LOL. Good fishing to ya this summer.

[sib]

Yeah SUPERTROLLER, I caught the planets in the western sky too. Nice display. There were some fantastic northern lights last November, but I haven't seen any since. I'll send over a pic of a some nice color I caught with my camera, your daughter might enjoy that.

FJH1, LOL I knew I was stabbing on that one. Another factor would be the fact that one can't see through the canopy or clouds many times. I'm ashamed to admit how much of astronomy I've forgotten through the years. I used to have an 8" cat and skipped around the Messier numbers abit. I've been known to stray off the structure night fishing during the Perseids, LOL. I still enjoy looking, though I no longer have the scope.

Good fishing guys.

[OFG]

Lost people don't always walk in circles. That most often occurs where there is a lack of topography. In mountain country, young people tend to climb whereas older people tend to move downhill. For those who do walk in circles, the dominant leg theory has always been popular, but from a behavioral standpoint, most folks tend to walk in one direction for a while until they become convinced they are going the wrong way....then they change directions, often winding up back where they started, or at least covering some of the same country.
Just my observations after 30 years as a forester.

[cardwiz]

Assuming for a moment that people do walk in circles when lost...

Do they circle in a clockwise or counter-clockwise direction?...AND...Is the direction dependant on wether they are in the northern or southern hemisphere?

If the direction of the circle is dependant on the hemisphere this would relate very well to the Earth's gravity pull...like the science experiment on which way the water rotates as a sink drain is pulled which is dependant on which hemisphere you are in.

...HMMMMmmmmm

Take these questions back for office trivia!

Cardwiz

[T-Mac]

That would be "flatlander" hikers. Around here you follow the trail or you fall off the mountain.

[Wile E]

Around here if you follow the corn rows or bean rows you will come to a fence and follow it and you will find a road. Can't get lost LOL

[water_wolf]

FJH,
In my oppinion you should win at least a "costellation" prize for that post..LOL


Rich Ferguson

[jim c]

Very intresting,and by the way the planet alighment I though would c ause earth quakes (opps there goes calif)but new york got one ?? Now about circling,my theory is like the moth circling the light,he circles in because he is trying to navagate in a straight line using the moon (brigh lite sorce) as a referrence to keep at the same angle in its compound eye. This works ok for the moth because the moon is so far awaythe slight arc he is making is not much diff from a straigh line.Now comes a close light sorce (ligh bulb),the moth must constantantly turn to keep the light in the same eye angle,thus the circle, crash and burn.I believe the hiker does the same thing,misjudging the spacial image of the scenery passing by ,which must be judged just right to go in straight line(very difficult). The old woodsman trick to cary a very long stick on his shoulder and follow where it points is my favorite cure for this prob,it works..jim c

[Silentsixty]

Thanks guys, especially Homer. Wasn't the answer I wanted to see, but it was exactly what I was looking for. I spent more than a little while doing searches w/o success.

I enjoyed and appreciated all the responses. Thought I'd be lucky to get even one.

1 in 452 people have an anatomical difference in leg length (one leg bone longer than the other) - fixed by adding a heel lift.

3 out of 5 have a functional difference of some degree. Functional differences come from sleeping on one side, carry things on one side, running clockwise on a track, facing traffic when you run (I don't understand why), using the phone on one side, carrying kids, injuries as a child, or even forceps delivery at birth. Usually one shoe heel wears faster than another with runners that are affect. Becomes more pronounced over time especially with runners. Corrected with specific exercises.

[FJH1]

LOL sib. I bet that 8" scope had some nice views, I'm envious!. I have a Meade ETX 90ec. The thing is pretty cool in that you can set up quickly, do a two star alignment and tell it what you want to see (all in under 10 minutes). Push a buttom, the scope moves to M51, push a button and the scope moves to Saturn... The optics are nearly perfect. I tried a Messier search this winter and had outstanding success. Up at the cottage (Minocqua, WI) under DARK skies I actually saw blueish color of the Great Orion Nebula, in a 3.5" scope! The cloud banding on Jupiter is awesome to see under dark skies. Around my house we have a fair amount of light pollution, viewing is still fun, but some things are pretty challenging (especially some of the fainter M objects)! I just read a report on the new camera installed into Hubble. Imagine a dime placed 10 feet away from your eyes, in this little sliver of sky the new camera picked up something like 2,000 GALAXIES - unbelievable. Oh well, I'll stop rambling :-).

SUPERTROLLER, hey, at least you can find the Big Dipper LOL!

Have a great season and don't forget to look up at night!

Best Regards,

FJH

Best Regards,

FJH

[Fish_on]

Hate to burst your bubble buddy, but it seems simple. It's almost impossible to walk in a straight line. Anything other than a straight line eventually becomes a circle. Even if you try to compensate for left movement by going to the right and vice-versa, you cannot go straight unless there are no obstacles and stright line of vision to follow.

[Fish_on]

Forgot to mention one thing. Your theory about the long leg/short leg could only be true if people were walking on perfectly flat ground.

[RickK]

Hey Homer if I need research I'm gonna sig you on it!
I lived near the udson and then near the Ct rivers,..also spent 5 years in Davenport Ia. My brain says rivers go north and south,...I thought Ole Miss did too,....but in Davenport it goes east/west,..I never go so messed up in a city in my life as that place,...after 5 years I still got lost on a reg basis!

[Jim Ordway]

Lost hikers as well as lost boaters go circles because they forgot their compass. Don't leave home without one. The GPS is not failsafe. In the GPS age we live in, we need to remember the basics. Have a map and compass when in unknown territory.
Sorry to wreck everyones fun on this topic. I don't think anyone should own a boat without a compass installed.
Take care,

[Fred S]

Simple. Because they are following their wives. :)

[cardwiz]

What a spoil sport. ;-)

...hey wait, take your compass to the north pole and go east or west...what happens? I bet you don't fall off the edge. Heh...

Cardwiz

PS- ...we should all get lost.

[Daren]

I believe that there are two reasons for people to walk in circles when they are lost.

1: People are stupid.

2: Person picks the largest object in the area and allways keeps it on their left side. Why? See 1. Why allways on their left side? Because stupid people are seldom right. Why you ask again? See 1.

Daren

[IaCraig]

Fish_on, I agree with your answer. Some people think too hard about the wrong things. It would be more appropriate to ask "how can I avoid walking in circles if I get lost". Answers include things like carry a compass and/or learn something about navigation.

Now lets see where was I......

IaCraig

[Bob G2]

Any anatomic leg length differences over 5 mm difference, as measured by a scanogram, should be addressed with the use of a sole lift instead of a heel lift. Measurement of functional leg length discrepensies lack inter-examiner reliability.

[Left or Right?]

More to that answer than you realize.

People tend to use their left or right sides based on their favored side. Right handed vs. left handed. If you are right handed then you will likely make more right turns, angle or drift right. The farther you travel the more likely you are to make sharper turns and angles to correct your misconceived left drift. Eventually making a circle pattern. Even people who can use both have a tendency to favor one side more.