Are Toyota's that much better?

[guest123]

Recently looking at Consumer Reports and Toyota's reliability is still great. I have never owned an import vehicle yet but am considering one.
I have recently had to have an expensive repair done to a domestic vehicle and am tired of the poor mileage and high cost per mile to drive.
For those of you that own a Toyota how has your experience been? Are they really that much more reliable or is it a myth?

[jalichty@bresnan.net]

We bought a Camry Hybrid four years ago and have been very pleased. On a couple of long trips we have gotten around 35 mpg. We have had no problems with the car and it feels very solid when we drive it. We are a bit disappointed in the mileage as it gets no where close to the 41 mpg in town that they advertised, but that's life. It's much better than our diesel truck. Overall, it's been as good a car as we have ever had. I would buy another Toyota in a minute if it meets our needs.

[guesst]

Toyotas are more reliable. Their resale value is also much higher. For my Toyotas and Hondas I have not had any maintenance surprises, just regular maintenance. Also look at Honda as they are just as good or better for some models.

Why would you think that this is a myth? People have been switching for years now in spite of the prices being a little higher.

[yarcraft91]

Our '97 Camry has 160,000 miles and I would drive it anywhere. It has not been trouble-free, but it is the most reliable vehicle I have ever owned, not a single warranty claim necessary and no other vehicle I have owned comes close to that. Other cars owned- 2 Pontiacs, a VW beetle (the least reliable car I've ever owned), 2 Plymouths and a Chevy. Trucks owned- 2 Chevy vans, a Dodge van and a Suburban. I drive cars for 12 years, typically, but the Toyota is one of the exceptions.

The wife has an '09 Accord- we'll see, 2 minor problems so far, both improper assembly work.

[Behr]

Can opener, meet can-o-worms.

(I own a Camry ('07), and its the best car I've owned for the price... ever. Combine that with their above average customer service, and 'odds are' you'll be a happy owner. I say 'odds are' because you will always find an exception to the rule. And I'm sure some of what you will here is completely, honestly, and un-biasedly true... while some of it will be tinged with the agenda of 'always buy american or you're un-american'... that would be the can-o-worms I was referring to.)

[Robert M]

There is no doubt their small engines and drivetrain have been very reliable for years.However I think the American manufacturers have woke up a little bit and are offering longer warrantys and a better product and are narrowing the gap.But they are also loaded with overseas and canadian parts.Kind of like the outboard manufacturers and a Yamaha T8.You have to build a reliable procuct and not just rely on selling parts to make a living.I think the internet has helped some because if your product/service isnt up to par you will hear about it.Maybe Lowrance will figure that out one of these days.

[mac]

I have a 5 year old Tundra and never have had any trouble. I'm happy with the 16 miles per gallon because when I want the extra power it is there. Never considered any thing else.

[SteveJ]

Between my wife, daughter, son-in-law and myslef we have two Toyota's and two Honda's as daily drivers. These have all been trouble free for us. Also have a GMC van that hasn't been so trouble free. We happened to purchae an extended warranty on it and they paid out $7,500 in claims.

The only Toyota/Honda we have sold was a 93 Honda Civic. Purchased it in 2001 and sold it in 2009 for more than we paid for it.

[Capt. Mike]

I am driving a 2011 SR5, had a 2010 SR5, had an 09 and 08
I lease through my company, could have whatever I wanted. Do you see a pattern here..........awesome trucks!!!!

Regards
Capt. Mike

[guest123]

I am looking at used Tundra's, Tacoma's and even a T100 if I could find a descent one and have noticed they hold their value rather well compared to domestic. I am mainly interested in the 3.4L V6 but would consider the 4.7L V8. Thanks for the replies.

[DJA]

My truck has 160,000 miles as well (97) No major problems, use it every day, very dependable. OOOOPPPPS! wrong thread it's a Ford f150

[keek]

1998 4Runner / 2002 tacoma TRD / 2001 Highlander / 2007 Rav4 /

Yes we love Toyota. They just work - PERIOD.

[MrStarnes1]

toyota and honda... a mechanics nightmare!
i hate seeing them come in because at the very best, i MAY get a brake job out of them every 100,000 miles along with maybe a timing belt.
for the most part, i would say, they are the most reliable vehicle on the market today
DJA... i know im going to start a war on here, but i would rather push my 8000lb dodge than drive your (or any other) ford. at least that way i know i would make it to my destination :bigsmile:

[goldman]

I've owned 2 Toyota T-100's, they were great trucks, very reliable, however, the gas mileage was less than ideal. Also, they didn't have alot of power for towing purposes. I guess it depends on how much boat you have, and how far your pulling it, determines how good the tow vehicle is.

I now drive a Chevy Silverado with a 5.3liter, and I regularly see 20mpg when not towing anything, running regular 87 octane gas. I would like to mention also, that if I run any blend of Ethanol, the mileage drops considerably.

I figure for approx the same dollars, I can have more room and gas mileage. Just my $.02.

Paul

[Mueller]

My wife and I have bought 14 Toyotas, my brother has had 3 Camrys that he put in excess of 350K miles on each. I bought a new K2500 in 2000 sold it last year, from 60-80k miles it had more issues than all the 14 Toyotas we owned. Nuff Said!

[SkarMN75RBLS]

LOL, I would be embarrassed to claim to have owned 14 toyota vehicles. I've had my 1998 Sierra 1500 since new, 182,000 and still outperforming your "yotoyas". And don't even get me started on my 03 Avalanche. I would never trust my Lund with an import. They don't haul many boats over there in Japan do they? :smirk: Nuff said.
Don't stoop yourself to an import, GM and Ford are producing tremendous vehicles lately.

[keek]

"I would never trust my Lund with an import. "

What's your Lund powered with out of curiosity?

[toyota]

2000 tundra 322,000 miles 1 fuel pump tires and brakes

[phowler]

Worst vehicle I ever owned was an import.

Best vehicle I ever owned is my current 1999 F150.

You people who fly the flag of Japan literally make my stomach turn.

[DJA]

2000 tundra 322,000 miles 1 fuel pump tires and brakes
WOW! that's impressive!
But do you realize you may have spent 8- $9000 more on gas, over those miles, then you would have with a domestic truck, plus the initial extra cost difference in the 2 trucks

[Hot Runr Guy]

"I would never trust my Lund with an import. "

What's your Lund powered with out of curiosity?

Looking in his WC album, he has a made in Fond du Lac WI USA Mercury Optimax on his Lund.

HRG

[keek]

And it's a sweet looking set-up too. Thanks HRG.

[SteveJ]

WOW! that's impressive!
But do you realize you may have spent 8- $9000 more on gas, over those miles, then you would have with a domestic truck, plus the initial extra cost difference in the 2 trucks

At 322,00 miles with only 1 fuel pump, tires and brakes he has more than covered the cost of a little extra gas and any initial cost difference. Luck or not, he is money ahead at this point. Then factor in the higher annual registration fees and insurance that he would have paid on replacing it with another new vehicle half way through his 322,000 miles and he's even further ahead.

[guest123]

WOW! that's impressive!
But do you realize you may have spent 8- $9000 more on gas, over those miles, then you would have with a domestic truck, plus the initial extra cost difference in the 2 trucks

Back in 2000 the Toyotas had smaller engines and got better fuel mileage than the domestics. He probably saved 8k - 9k.

[Robert M]

Just like a lot of things in this country greed has gotten in the way of Quality and Reliability. To bad our auto manufacturers hadnt figured this out before their customers had to bail them out. A lot of people walked away from GM with fortunes like Red McCombs and others only to have the working people pick up the tab. The japanese have built their reputation on reliability and just basically took our ideas and improved on them. I remember a long time ago when a few bikers bought Harley Davidson and one of the first things they figured out is they needed a reliable engine. Look what that did for them. We sent men to the moon and back in the 60s and Im sure we could build a gas motor to go a million miles if we wanted to.Diesles have been doing that for a long time.But there is a lot of money to be made in parts and service. Seems like they finally started to figure out they had to improve their product to keep the customers they have and try to get a few back. Better late than never I guess.

[v-bay gord]

[QUOTE
You people who fly the flag of Japan literally make my stomach turn.[/QUOTE]

My Toyota Tacoma didn't come with a flag of Japan but could have come with a U.S. flag since it was built in California.

[Wade B AKA: Ruger2506]

[QUOTE
You people who fly the flag of Japan literally make my stomach turn.

To each their own. FYI Toyata is an American assembled auto. Ford is a Mexican assembled auto and GM is a Canadian assembled auto (my be backwards).

I'm the outcast in my family with my 2001 Chevy 1500 HD. Mom's 2009 Toyota Venza is a rock solid rig. Dad's 2008 Toyota Tundra has 80,000 on it and 0 issues other than standard maintenance. My brother's 1999 Tunrda is rock solid despite being shot up by a crazy x-wive's boyfriend.

My next rig will be a Tundra unless Ford can show me something that I will find as impressive as well as price vs. quality. GM will not get anymore of my cash after the bailout and lack of quality. Especially for what they want (price). You'll notice Toyota's quality was outstanding until they became an American assembled product. Now they are having recall issues.

As far as towing, Dad's Tundra with the 5.7L kicks my Chevy's butt (6.0L). It's nearly the same amount of torque, way better ride, and exceptionally better mileage towing and empty. Apparently the Japanese can figure out how to tow a boat even without previous experience.

On a GM note we currently have a Chrysler 300. That thing is the biggest POS I've ever owned. I can't wait to push that tub into a lake. It's constantly broken down.

[Steven Pederson]

I wouldn't take Consumer Reports too seriously. It's a good resource, but not the Bible. Toyota's have issues just like all other mfg's.

My 2002 malibu has 210K on it, Fuel pump($700), Water Pump($175), Intake Gasket ($350) are the only issues I've had with this car. Zero before 190K.

I have had a few dealerships tell me I have major issues, I always get a second opinion, once I was told I needed a new head gasket, and I didn't, I wonder how many of the people with problems, actually have problems.

I also have a buddy who bought a 2008 Tacoma, bought it for reliability reasons, then something with the steering went out, and it cost $4500 to fix. He wont own anything outside of warranty now because of it, regardless of brand.

It's getting close to time to think about a replacement, not sure what I would buy, I just hope I can pick another one like the malibu, All vehicle purchases are a crap shoot.

[Wall-i-Lama]

I've owned the following vehicles in my life time:

Ford Maverick
Chevy Citation
Volvo 240DL
Plymouth Voyager
Chevy S10
Mercury Lynx
Ford Explorer
Ford Explorer Sport
Chevy Suburban
Ford Focus
Ford Mustang
Toyota Avalon
Lincoln Navigator
Ford Bronco
Cadillac Sedan Deville

1st Most reliable: Plymouth Voyager
2nd Most reliable: Toyota Avalon

Worst Reliability: Chevy Citation
Worst than worst reliable: Cadillac Sedan Deville

My Favorite: Chevy Suburban :)

[wallymn99]

i just sold my F150 (which was a good truck) and bought a toyota. Very pleased so far. I also am still driving a 2001 Lexus that i would take anywhere (200k) miles. Had to replace the transmission but we bought it used so i don't know what the previous owner did. Still a good car and have owned it since 2003.

The one thing i do like about toyota is they are MADE IN THE USA. Ford, Chevy are assembled in Canada, mexico for alot of their vehicles. Even thou they are American companies, toyota is just as American as they employ Americans too.

[spampy]

Currently I drive a 2K GMC Sierrra wife drives 11 Traverse. My work truck is a 11 F150 and have also owned Dodge in the past. I have always supported the American Manufactures...Yet if I was to go with a import it would be KIA, VW, or Volvo...NOT TOY. The KIA products appear to be in a class by themselves as far as imports go...imo

[Ghost Reaper]

If your do some research you will see that most Toyota vehicles, especially the Camry and Tundra are made in the US. Most "American" made vehicles are made in Mexico or other countries. I was a die hard Chevy/Ford fan. Being that I drive an 05 Chevy pickup and a 2007 Ford F150 for work I feel that I have the right to argue this. In my personal truck, I have replaced the U-Joints twice in less than 60,000 miles, **** one went after 11,000 miles. I had to have the seat foam redone on the driver seat because they couldn't make that right and I have had countless plastic handles and knobs replaced under warranty. I also had to have several valves and a head replaced at 32,000 miles. My work truck, which I have enjoyed for the past several years, has had a similar fate.

My wife and I own a 2002 Camry with 100K+ on it. The only thing I have had to replace on this car were brakes, tires, and the battery. The car looks and runs as well as it did brand new. My parents owned a '96 Toyota Celica that when 180,000 miles and was finally taken out by a whitetail deer. Again, ran like a top until it had to be given up.

So yeah I think Yota's, Nissan and a few others do make better vehicles than the "American" made companies.

FUN FACT: If you watched the Packers yesterday you should have scene a commercial for a new VW Van. Believe it or not, that POS is a Chrysler. I work as a Civil Engineer and I have a lot of friends who are Mechanical Engineers. They went for a test drive popped the hood, low and behold everything said CHRYSLER!

[TAH]

I didn't read all the past replys because frankly I don't really care what everyone else says (absalutely no disrespect, everyone just has a different opinion) . I give my own opinion on experience.

I have driven GMC, Ford and chevrolet. They all served their purpose.

My last two vehicles were a Ford F350 Diesel and a Ford F250 Diesel. I thought I needed the power, Recently I changed vehicles and shoped around alot till I found what I actually needed, a Toyota Tundra with the Rock Warrior package, LOVE IT!!

The Toyota IS BUILT in America and it pulls my 5th. wheel camper with no problems. Camper weighs 9800 lbs. dry. Its not only sharp looking but has the balls to back its good looks up. If anyone says they can get 18+ mpg on this setup let me know because I havent seen more than about 15 mpg. This is the only negative thing I see, you always hear about the great milage but engine size does make the difference and I have the 5.7 so I CAN tow.

If you need any more info on it drop me an e-mail. I am not "married" to any one manufacturer, I buy vehicles that work for me, I don't buy them for the name brand.:exactly: Just my 2 cents....................good luck!

[Wade B AKA: Ruger2506]

I didn't read all the past replys because frankly I don't really care what everyone else says (absalutely no disrespect, everyone just has a different opinion) . I give my own opinion on experience.

I have driven GMC, Ford and chevrolet. They all served their purpose.

My last two vehicles were a Ford F350 Diesel and a Ford F250 Diesel. I thought I needed the power, Recently I changed vehicles and shoped around alot till I found what I actually needed, a Toyota Tundra with the Rock Warrior package, LOVE IT!!

The Toyota IS BUILT in America and it pulls my 5th. wheel camper with no problems. Camper weighs 9800 lbs. dry. Its not only sharp looking but has the balls to back its good looks up. If anyone says they can get 18+ mpg on this setup let me know because I havent seen more than about 15 mpg. This is the only negative thing I see, you always hear about the great milage but engine size does make the difference and I have the 5.7 so I CAN tow.

If you need any more info on it drop me an e-mail. I am not "married" to any one manufacturer, I buy vehicles that work for me, I don't buy them for the name brand.:exactly: Just my 2 cents....................good luck!

Tah,my Dad's Tundra is seeing around 18 MPG hwy UNTIL he goes above 70 MPH. Then it drops to 15-16 MPG. Towing he's seeing 12-13 MPG (I think), I honestly can't remember exactly what he's told me.

[cspierings]

When I took a new job which required me to make a 50 commute every day it was time for us to re-evaluate what we had for vehicles. Wife was driving a Chevy Venture and I was driving a Suburban both getting roughly the same gas mileage.

Two month after warranty is up on the Venture one of the automatic doors quits, that gets repaired and then video screen goes out. With four kids that is a nice to have and part of the reason we bought it. $1800 to repair, needless to say a nice to have that we didn't have anymore. Then we find out it is leaking coolant into the engine. I had enough and raised heck with the dealership. They fixed it charging us only for parts. Two weeks later the wiper motor flips out and the wipers don't fold down when turned off. Then 4 months after the first coolant leak into the engine it shows up again in the oil.

The Venture was sent down the road and we bought a used Camry. I drive it to work during the week, its a 4 cylinder sucks on snow and ice because it is so light but it is great on gasoline.

The Suburban is coming up on 160K miles and (knocking on wood) the only big expenses have been wear items like tires. I would like to see better mileage out of it pulling the boat. It does an awesome job hauling the whole family when its time to travel. Prior to the adding twins and the Suburban to the family I always drove GM 1/2 ton pick ups. First one was great, next two were pitiful from a reliability standpoint and without the GM employee discount I would have been driving something else.

Right now it looks like a Suburban will be our next vehicle but I am choking on why as a tax payer I had to help bail them out and still pay the huge price for a vehicle like the Suburban. When the time comes I am going to look at what is out there for a legitimate 7-8 passenger SUV that can haul some gear and tow a boat. When the kids are gone and a pick up is in the cards Toyota will get a serious look.

When it comes time for the oldest to start driving that Camry will be where he starts and more than likely another Camry will find its way to our house.

[yarcraft91]

The Venture was sent down the road and we bought a used Camry. I drive it to work during the week, its a 4 cylinder sucks on snow and ice because it is so light but it is great on gasoline.

The Suburban is coming up on 160K miles...

We're in a similar situation- I have a '97 Camry hand-me-down from my wife and a 4WD '04 Suburban. I've parked the Suburban the past 2 winters and driven the Camry exclusively. The Camry does well-enough in the snow we get here and I'm saving the Suburban for use as a tow vehicle- less wear and no salt exposure (hopefully the door bottoms won't rust out AGAIN). I love both vehicles, but the Suburban at 54K miles has needed more repair work than the Camry at 160K.

[Wade B AKA: Ruger2506]

When I took a new job which required me to make a 50 commute every day it was time for us to re-evaluate what we had for vehicles. Wife was driving a Chevy Venture and I was driving a Suburban both getting roughly the same gas mileage.

Two month after warranty is up on the Venture one of the automatic doors quits, that gets repaired and then video screen goes out. With four kids that is a nice to have and part of the reason we bought it. $1800 to repair, needless to say a nice to have that we didn't have anymore. Then we find out it is leaking coolant into the engine. I had enough and raised heck with the dealership. They fixed it charging us only for parts. Two weeks later the wiper motor flips out and the wipers don't fold down when turned off. Then 4 months after the first coolant leak into the engine it shows up again in the oil.

The Venture was sent down the road and we bought a used Camry. I drive it to work during the week, its a 4 cylinder sucks on snow and ice because it is so light but it is great on gasoline.

The Suburban is coming up on 160K miles and (knocking on wood) the only big expenses have been wear items like tires. I would like to see better mileage out of it pulling the boat. It does an awesome job hauling the whole family when its time to travel. Prior to the adding twins and the Suburban to the family I always drove GM 1/2 ton pick ups. First one was great, next two were pitiful from a reliability standpoint and without the GM employee discount I would have been driving something else.

Right now it looks like a Suburban will be our next vehicle but I am choking on why as a tax payer I had to help bail them out and still pay the huge price for a vehicle like the Suburban. When the time comes I am going to look at what is out there for a legitimate 7-8 passenger SUV that can haul some gear and tow a boat. When the kids are gone and a pick up is in the cards Toyota will get a serious look.

When it comes time for the oldest to start driving that Camry will be where he starts and more than likely another Camry will find its way to our house.

I was looking at the Sequoia a while back. To bad it's not in a Burb size with the 5.7L. That would be a sweet set-up. Regardless, the Sequoia looks sweet.

[doubleheader]

Anyone that says the Toyotas are not reliable in comparison to most any so-called domestic brands is simply not being objective. Certainly every manufacturer makes great, good, and "lemon" vehicles, but overall the Toyotas are very reliable. I've only owned 2, my current being a Tundra with only 6,000 miles, so I can't really comment from personal experience about the long term reliability of my Tundra but I will say it's a well built solid truck, and equipped with the off road pkg equivalant to a 3/4 ton. The "Tundra Deconstructed" videos are pretty neat to watch too. Got rid of my F150 after getting raped on a basic maintenance issue at an out of state dealership while traveling. $500 for what turned out to be a a fuse. No kidding!! After getting zero satisfaction from Ford I said "never again".

[wallymn99]

I was looking at the Sequoia a while back. To bad it's not in a Burb size with the 5.7L. That would be a sweet set-up. Regardless, the Sequoia looks sweet.

thats what i bought. Its far better than any Tahoe, YUkon i have been in. The ride, the room is supurb. It costs about 2k more than the Ford Expedition but IMO it's worth it.

i am seeing 17 mpg doing under 65. Once you hit 79 it drops down to 16.3 or so. Still better than my F150 that got a consistant 14 mpg on the highway due to the 4 speed trans'.

[Bemidjiboy]

Worst vehicle I ever owned was an import.

Best vehicle I ever owned is my current 1999 F150.

You people who fly the flag of Japan literally make my stomach turn.

Well, the worst one I've ever owned was a 1999 F-150. More headaches than I can tell you. That's the problem: consistency. If Detroit would spend more money on R&D and less on lobbying in D.C. and marketing, I'd consider buying from them again. If they're going to make a lemon and expect me to buy it because I'm American, they can kiss my white butt. "You People"?? Whoa - that's some finger-jabbing words there, pardner. FYI: Toyotas are made in Alabama, Kentucky, Texas, Indiana, Mississippi and W. Virginia. Haven't seen any rising sun flags there lately.

[muskyhunter34]

Recently looking at Consumer Reports and Toyota's reliability is still great. I have never owned an import vehicle yet but am considering one.
I have recently had to have an expensive repair done to a domestic vehicle and am tired of the poor mileage and high cost per mile to drive.
For those of you that own a Toyota how has your experience been? Are they really that much more reliable or is it a myth?

2001 Camry...bought new...180,000 miles on it...never to a mechanic...oil changed every 3,000 miles...runs exceptionally well...enough said!:bowdown:

[Steven Pederson]

2001 Camry...bought new...180,000 miles on it...never to a mechanic...oil changed every 3,000 miles...runs exceptionally well...enough said!:bowdown:


Same Experiance with my Malibu, right until that 180K mark. :cheers:

Now I'm paranoid that something is going to go out on it on long drives. 210K, original alternator, belt, eventually something is going to give. Hasn't left me stranded yet, for what they get for new vehicles, I can justify a bill every now and again.

[guest123]

Thanks for the replies. I am starting my search for a used Toyota pick up.

[beeman]

Some people still drive the same cars they bought in 80's old honda accords. Still nice little rides even today, cant say that about american cars there junk in 4years. Humm Honda civic or Ford focus lol dont get me started! I would consider a new ford focus $9500 maybe but if the price is anything close to Honda or Toyota dont do it. Im not saying jap cars are the ultimate cars but for money they beat the pants off american sorry they do. Had a Civic I traded for Chevrolet Malibu when they came out, had to come up with 10k for trade. Well I know for a fact the Civic is worth more today with double the miles than that Malihore. Ive owned a few of Tacomas there great and light weight rigs again beating everything out there. I drive a nissan 4dr truck now it's decent but likes fuel, toyota gets 3mpg better.

[Kruger]

Some people still drive the same cars they bought in 80's old honda accords. Still nice little rides even today, cant say that about american cars there junk in 4years. Humm Honda civic or Ford focus lol dont get me started! I would consider a new ford focus $9500 maybe but if the price is anything close to Honda or Toyota dont do it. Im not saying jap cars are the ultimate cars but for money they beat the pants off american sorry they do. Had a Civic I traded for Chevrolet Malibu when they came out, had to come up with 10k for trade. Well I know for a fact the Civic is worth more today with double the miles than that Malihore. Ive owned a few of Tacomas there great and light weight rigs again beating everything out there. I drive a nissan 4dr truck now it's decent but likes fuel, toyota gets 3mpg better.


Come on, people need to be serious. I have had plenty of American made cars and trucks in my life and none were junk after 4 years. Actually I have had only 1 bad American made car. It was a 1979 Plymouth Arrow. Wouldn't run when it rained.

[Further North]

I've owned the following vehicles in my life time:

Ford Maverick
Chevy Citation
Volvo 240DL
Plymouth Voyager
Chevy S10
Mercury Lynx
Ford Explorer
Ford Explorer Sport
Chevy Suburban
Ford Focus
Ford Mustang
Toyota Avalon
Lincoln Navigator
Ford Bronco
Cadillac Sedan Deville

1st Most reliable: Plymouth Voyager
2nd Most reliable: Toyota Avalon

Worst Reliability: Chevy Citation
Worst than worst reliable: Cadillac Sedan Deville

My Favorite: Chevy Suburban :)

I was going to do the same thing:

Ford Galaxy 500
Plymouth Duster
International Scout
Chevrolet Camaro
Saab 99
Honda Civic (wagon)
Honda Civic (2 dr hatchback)
Subaru Station wagon
Austin Healy Sprite
Chevrolet Citation
BMW 320i
Toyota Celica
Mazda Protege
Toyota Corolla Coupe
Nissan Maxima
Isuzu Trooper
Mazda Protege
BMW 318i
Isuzu Trooper
Chevrolet Tahoe
Ford Expedition
Infiniti I30
Ford Freestyle
Infiniti G35
Chevrolet Trailblazer

While there was a time - call lit late 70s through the mid 90s - where what was coming out of Detroit was junk (trucks have largely been the exception, especially half ton and up), right now, everything is good, and works great...unless it doesn't...and that's more of an individual vehicle issue than a manufacturer issue (with a few exceptions).

When you get a bad one, get rid of it and move on.

We pick our vehicles based on what we need or want them to do, do our research, then buy what best fits our needs/wants at the best overall cost. To get overall cost, you need to figure in purchase price, depreciation over the term you're going to own it, maintenance and repair costs and gas mileage. All that stuff's predictable, and with some serious research, easy to figure out or find.

IMO, anyone who puts a loyalty to a brand name in front of their responsibility to their family to provide financial security has their priorities a little goofy...but to each their own.

Also, anyone who paints an entire brand based on experience with one or two vehicles isn't looking at the big picture. That Tahoe I owned was the singularly biggest piece of crap that I have ever had the displeasure to park in my garage...but I'm driving a GM product right now.

[ohiojmj]

Some of us get burned by one particular domestic car company and refuse to buy that brand again, EVER. My negative experience with unsafe brakes on a Chevy Citation will not be forgotten. In the early 80's, I said that I would never buy another GM vehicle. There's plenty of brands out there to choose from. Today, I shop for reliability, which rules out several popular brands.

[Buck Snort]

I was going to do the same thing:


Also, anyone who paints an entire brand based on experience with one or two vehicles isn't looking at the big picture. That Tahoe I owned was the singularly biggest piece of crap that I have ever had the displeasure to park in my garage...but I'm driving a GM product right now.


You didn't happen to buy my old Tahoe did you? :)

[Kruger]

Some of us get burned by one particular domestic car company and refuse to buy that brand again, EVER. My negative experience with unsafe brakes on a Chevy Citation will not be forgotten. In the early 80's, I said that I would never buy another GM vehicle. There's plenty of brands out there to choose from. Today, I shop for reliability, which rules out several popular brands.


Which brand is unreliable?

[camp chef]

Toyota has recalled more cars in the last 24 months than all the domestic manufacturers combined...You guys make me laugh

[Wade B AKA: Ruger2506]

Toyota has recalled more cars in the last 24 months than all the domestic manufacturers combined...You guys make me laugh
All of which are built in American factories. Huh, see a trend?

[TAH]

Tah,my Dad's Tundra is seeing around 18 MPG hwy UNTIL he goes above 70 MPH. Then it drops to 15-16 MPG. Towing he's seeing 12-13 MPG (I think), I honestly can't remember exactly what he's told me.
__________________

Wade,
Thats good news if hes getting 18, which engine and what year does he drive. My problem could be my driving style or the vehicle is still too new and needs to be driven some more, who knows? Doesn't matter I love it anyway and it beats what i was paying for diesel fuel!

By the way I will say it again, I buy a vehicle that works for what I need, I don't care who makes it. All the companies have some great vehicles but this one fit me this time, see what happens in 2 more years, heck maybe I'll be driving a BMW.............. if they ever made a truck! lol:cheers:

[Mpower]

heck maybe I'll be driving a BMW.............. if they ever made a truck! lol:cheers:

Don't be surprised if they do...! BMWs have been the easist cars I've ever worked on and have owned a handful because of that fact and would consider a pickup made by them. My GMC Sierra has all sort of issues and the sweethearts Audi A4 seems like it was intentionally designed to prevent people from doing their own maintanance.

[Kruger]

All of which are built in American factories. Huh, see a trend?


So he should or shouldn't buy a Toyota?

[Further North]

Toyota has recalled more cars in the last 24 months than all the domestic manufacturers combined...You guys make me laugh

...and at some point each of the domestic manufacturers has been in exactly the same position...

...So I must be missing the point.

[Further North]

By the way I will say it again, I buy a vehicle that works for what I need, I don't care who makes it. All the companies have some great vehicles...

That's it, right there.

That's what everyone does...but some to to great lengths to try to justify their purchases to others...why, I don't know.

What's even weirder is the folks who berate others for the cars they purchase...

...ever notice that they all shop at Walmart?

[Wade B AKA: Ruger2506]

__________________

Wade,
Thats good news if hes getting 18, which engine and what year does he drive. My problem could be my driving style or the vehicle is still too new and needs to be driven some more, who knows? Doesn't matter I love it anyway and it beats what i was paying for diesel fuel!

By the way I will say it again, I buy a vehicle that works for what I need, I don't care who makes it. All the companies have some great vehicles but this one fit me this time, see what happens in 2 more years, heck maybe I'll be driving a BMW.............. if they ever made a truck! lol:cheers:

2008 Tundra Crew Cab with the 5.7L.

[luveyes]

2008 Tundra Crew Cab with the 5.7L.


I am running much the same. 11 Tundra with only 1300 miles on it and see a huge milage drop breaking that 70-71 mark. Upper 18 with no wind at/or under 70 and 14ish over. Wind also makes a huge difference. Not broke in yet so too soon to tell... I hope to see a bit better milage and cant wait to hook up to the boat.

[T Mac]

Toyota has recalled more cars in the last 24 months than all the domestic manufacturers combined...You guys make me laugh

Yup.
And mostly for nothing. Especially on the sudden acceleration issue.
For people who are too dumb to know the difference between the gas and the brake pedals, or are too ignorant too shift into neutral...or too dense to shut the engine off, while they had the gas pedal mashed to the floor .......and the vehicle wouldn't stop. :smirk:
After exhaustive studies by US, NASA scientists....Toyota was vindicated in court.
There was found to be nothing electrically or mechanically remiss.

What should be recalled is Driver's Ed. training in this country.
Whatever happened to the classes we had in school for half a year teaching us the mechanical workings and physics involved with operating a vehicle??

[PackerBacker]

Yup.
And mostly for nothing. Especially on the sudden acceleration issue.
For people who are too dumb to know the difference between the gas and the brake pedals, or are too ignorant too shift into neutral...or too dense to shut the engine off, while they had the gas pedal mashed to the floor .......and the vehicle wouldn't stop. :smirk:
After exhaustive studies by US, NASA scientists....Toyota was vindicated in court.
There was found to be nothing electrically or mechanically remiss.

What should be recalled is Driver's Ed. training in this country.
Whatever happened to the classes we had in school for half a year teaching us the mechanical workings and physics involved with operating a vehicle??

Should have recalled the journalists and politicians who overhyped the problem. Oh wait. We did recall some of the politicians :grin:
There was a definite need to recall the guy who faked it in the Prius.

[LAvet]

Not all Toyota run without problem. I have a 2005 corolla that I have some issues with, not terrible but nagging. Infact, tonight I filled out the paperwork for the recent 2005-2008 computer recall to get reimbursed (payed for this baby out of my own $$), evidently I was leading the curve and they hadn't owned up to the problem yet!. Besides the computer have had 3 issues with the charcoal canister ( not 100% sure if its a motor or exhaust issue). Other than that gets great milage 35 MPG all day long, has enough zip for what is needed and was really resonably priced. Would I buy another, with the luck I've had I would look around at a Civic or F Focus. I hope to drive this one into the ground. My foul weather and boat pulling vehicle is a GMC Serria--milage, not so good. Corolla has 145,000 miles and counting. Couple of buds at work have the tondra and love them. My .02. Happy Hunting.

[karpbuster]

Recently looking at Consumer Reports and Toyota's reliability is still great. I have never owned an import vehicle yet but am considering one.
I have recently had to have an expensive repair done to a domestic vehicle and am tired of the poor mileage and high cost per mile to drive.
For those of you that own a Toyota how has your experience been? Are they really that much more reliable or is it a myth?

;)

That was true in the past ... There are others, me thinks.

[Behr]

http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2011/02/09/us_finds_toyota_electronics_werent_to_blame_in_cra shes/

[Esoxchaser]

http://www.google.com/search?q=tpyota+frame+rot&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&client=firefox-a&rlz=1R1GGGL_en___US360#hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=tiS&pwst=1&rlz=1R1GGGL_en___US360&sa=X&ei=gGtSTYbnBMu4tgf3_tClCQ&ved=0CBYQvwUoAQ&q=toyota+frame+rot&spell=1&fp=7828c4946c5db268

[keek]

Know what I find interesting about the Frame Rot issue- Is that Toyota stepped up and offered an AMAZING buy back plan. Some of my friends got 150% KBB on vehicles that should have come in at 70% KBB.

Did Toyota have to do that? Were they being forced to do that? Was it out of "being beat up" in the press? No.

Were the frames rotting on vehicles- yes indeed, no denying that. Did Toyota step up and try to do the right thing? Yes they did.

By the way it's interesting that thousands of toyotas were still able to perform their daily workhorse duties with a compromised framed.

I believe the accelerator issue recall was blown out of proportion and these recent studies released address that.

All vehicles makes can and will have issues/recalls. To me it's what the company does in the face of these realities that really matters.

[CraigM]

bought it new inAz for our Az residence 8000 miles the rear axel fell off . No one hurt thank God the bolts fell out ! , 31000 timing belt etc. $2400 . It never got over 26 mpg V6 . Wifes 06 impala 30-32 on the highway , only problem remote start reprogrammed under warrantee. 40million americans out of work , Yeah I will not buy Jap again. That includes those Yamahas, where in America are the Yamahas made ?

[TAH]

99 Camry
bought it new inAz for our Az residence 8000 miles the rear axel fell off . No one hurt thank God the bolts fell out ! , 31000 timing belt etc. $2400 . It never got over 26 mpg V6 . Wifes 06 impala 30-32 on the highway , only problem remote start reprogrammed under warrantee. 40million americans out of work , Yeah I will not buy Jap again. That includes those Yamahas, where in America are the Yamahas made ?

Sounds like you had bad luck, too bad, I think we all can attess to the fact we have had bad luck with vehicles. I don't even want to get into the fun I had with my GMC ( by the way alot of it was built and assembled over seas)! Does that mean I will never own one? No way, If the need arises down the road, maybe.

Just because you had a bad deal once does that mean you shouldnt try it again, Heck havent you ever had a bad experience with a girlfriend, does that mean you'll never go back to one?? Gotto get back on board and try again is all I'm saying. lol:cheers:

And as far as americans off work. Doesn't the thousands of workers putting Toyotas together and selling them in the USA count for something? Anything??:cookoo: Or is it just because it is a "weird" name? Yamaha also, you wouldn't buy one?? Too bad they are an awsome outboard and one of the most reliable ones out there. Don't try to argue this point you will lose!! :frypan:And again the workers in the USA that are involved with building and selling don't count for anything either??? Whatever.

I will not go to another country and purchase things but if it is in my country I will buy it, that way some people in this country CAN make some money, and KEEP their job!

I do know what you are saying but your thinking hurts americans that do produce and sell these products. Alot of our companies went overseas (or over the border) to produce their stuff because it is cheaper, then they bring it back into the good old US of A and sell it for a HUGE inflated cost (Nike, etc,) Why is this o.k. Any company that does this should be off limits, but then again maybe we americans are greedy and the companies cant afford us to work for them? Thats their side of the story. So they say we (Big company)dont want to pay your hourly rate but we will scr## you again by selling you a $5.00 (if that) pair of our shoes made overseas for a $150.00.

Sorry I'm just tired of hearing about things that arent worth argueing about:rant:Maybe we can put more thought and effort into next years election!!

O.K. I'm done...........................before you beat me up...YES I LOVE AMERICA!! And anybody that sacrifices blood, sweat or tears to make it better for ALL of us, not just certain individules...........O.K.. now I'm done.

And another thing...no disrespect intended...O.K. now I am really, REALLY done.

[Buck Snort]

40million americans out of work , Yeah I will not buy Jap again. That includes those Yamahas, where in America are the Yamahas made ?


That argument holds no water unless the place you bought it from was all Japaneese folks that weren't US Citizens.

[TAH]

1977
Yamaha Motor Corporation, USA, was founded in order to better appeal to the American market and establish a separate identity (from music & electronics) for Yamaha motorized products.

1980
The new Yamaha Motor Corporation, USA, corporate office was opened in Cypress, California.


1986
Yamaha Motor Manufacturing Corporation of America was founded in Newnan, Georgia.

1997
Yamaha acquires the G3 boat company.
At the Newnan, Georgia, manufacturing facility, the first ATV (the BearTracker) rolls off the assembly line.
Yamaha opens southeastern offices in Kennesaw, Georgia.
The new Yamaha Motor Corporation, USA, corporate office was opened in Cypress, California.

As you CAN see Yamaha has done, and continues to do alot in the USA. Do all these WORKERS need to be out of work too because some people don't look at the BIG picture?????? And can't see beyand a name????:banghead:

Lets all just get along and buy what works (not for the name) then maybe the companies that really suck will go away.:cheers:

[rock2me]

Interesting that the safety of Toyota's were called into question at the same time the big three were AT their lows. Anyone else think this was a union payoff visa via Obama to slash the Toyota brand so they didn't totally obliterate GM?

I'll never forget how rude those House and Senate members were to Mr Toyoda. As it turns out, all those recalls and taking Toyota's off the market, was all just a fabrication of "who"?

[tigerjohn1554]

Keep buying foriegn, put the Americans out of biz then rely on Japan to build our tanks, etc. (99 grand marquis still rides like a dream. 20mpg).

[Golden Eagle]

Interesting that the safety of Toyota's were called into question at the same time the big three were AT their lows. Anyone else think this was a union payoff visa via Obama to slash the Toyota brand so they didn't totally obliterate GM?

I'll never forget how rude those House and Senate members were to Mr Toyoda. As it turns out, all those recalls and taking Toyota's off the market, was all just a fabrication of "who"?

I see it as you do.

[unlogged nc]

I agree. Lots of political posturing which turned out to be somewhat false.

Toyota quality is solid. Doesn't mean everyone else is bad, but they seem to set the standard.

[Explorer]

Sooner or later the people of this country better start taking care of the good ole USA. It has been a proven fact the politicians can't do it.

[ifish267]

I drive domestic because: The folks that are getting hurt are the little 50 to 100 person factories that make the parts that go into the American automobiles.Example; (Seat belts,rear view mirrors,windshields,etc) A couple of years ago i was listening to the radio one sunday morning and the guy said that a thousand companies with a hundred or less employees left or closed down in Illinois and Wisconsin. I really dont care what car or truck anyone drives. Its just none of my business. There is a reason foreign companies build plants in the U.S. Import taxes on finished products made outside of the states and shipped here are extremely high. Its alot cheaper to ship the parts over in a crate and pay an American worker to assemble them. When you bring your American car or truck in for repairs (which according to this thread is pretty often) chances are the parts were made in the states. Not always I know.It isnt just Gm,ford or chrysler that take a hit. For all you guys that pull your boats with toyotas and have yamahas on the back, thats your choice. Like I said, I mind my own business. Me,I dont want too many more of my friends unemployed.We cant all be fishing guides,(joke). Dont chop my head off. Thats just the way I see it. I just sold my 2002 dodge 1/2 ton with 140,000 miles which was a "great truck" the whole time I had it for a 2011 avalanche. Not enough miles 5500 to comment really but it pulls my 19' boat great. I like it so far.

[karpbuster]

I think it depends on model, year and type. I still have a 97 Camry, that thing is a tank, well made. I also have a solid Ford F150. Generalities never work, so it seems to me.

[Phil T]

Toyotas usually have more North American content than the "domestic" brands. Check the archives in CarandDriver.com for an article on NA content of vehicles.
I don't own a Toyota, but my wife's 2005 Honda Accord has one Japanese part, the transmission. That is the total of imported parts.

[hnd]

those ma and pa shops are also making parts for honda and toyota.

also, remember, toyota is a publicly traded company, profits are dispersed among shareholders which i believe almost 45% of which are US investors.

Also, i have a friend who took a back country trip through berkina faso and cote d'lvoire. they took a toyota land cruiser. they had to stop a few times at different shops throughout for parts as the trails there could hardly be considered navigable for the most part. the consensus was that a land cruiser's life in this country was about 20,000 km. every american made vehicle that they have brought over? 5-6k km. every european vehicle was the same. landcruisers and hiluxes (tacomas) just went.

i drive a prizm (corolla) and it has never had an issue and is over 150. i own a v6 s10 that is falling apart but the engine runs and is over 130k. my wife drives an 04 odyssey pushing 100k and we have not ever had 1 issue with it.

[Phil T]

As for the biggest recalls, that Ford cruise control that set vehhicles on fire was recalled over multiple years. Total those years, and it's the biggest recall ever. By-the-way, the electronic accelerator system that may have been partly to blame in the big Toyta recall is from an Indiana factory.

[yarcraft91]

I think it depends on model, year and type. I still have a 97 Camry, that thing is a tank, well made. I also have a solid Ford F150. Generalities never work, so it seems to me.

I hear ya. My '97 Camry at 167K is as nice or nicer to drive than any of the Ford, Honda or GM new cars I test-drove last summer. Not as powerful, but quieter and smoother-riding. What an amazing car!

My other car is a '67 Plymouth I bought in 1974. Another amazing car that has carried me 140K miles so far with no major repairs. Yep- it's an antique I don't drive much anymore, but it's always ready to go when I am. Best $600 I ever spent.

[Dumbist post i've ever read]

toyota and honda... a mechanics nightmare!
i hate seeing them come in because at the very best, i MAY get a brake job out of them every 100,000 miles along with maybe a timing belt.
for the most part, i would say, they are the most reliable vehicle on the market today
DJA... i know im going to start a war on here, but i would rather push my 8000lb dodge than drive your (or any other) ford. at least that way i know i would make it to my destination :bigsmile:

That is the winner -- dumbest post I've ever read on here and this site is full of them. Toyota and Honda are great if you own them, what else would you say. But if you know a lot of Toyota or Honda owners you will find out they have their problems also. By the way if they are so great why would you have a piece of crap Dodge ???

[teamlund]

I see it as you do.

same here........

[Sakakawea]

There are definitely some competitive brands out there, but when it comes to resale value and reliability and dependability, you will not find a better car. They might be a little higher priced then the competition in some cases, but will cost you less in the end. Any questions let me know, I sell toyota's!!

[fieds]

i had a t100 with a 3.4 v-6 with a manual tranny. it was under powered for what i used her for; 20 foot fish fish house, 18 foot boat, car hauler etc etc; she tired out on me at around 160,000 miles. There were nusiance repairs such as rear seals, a shock snapped off the back axel and the bracket supporting the clutch ripped out of the floor.
Under "normal" use this truck would have lasted til the body rusted off the frame, which it was starting to do. i also didn't respect my maintenance schedules very well and that finally put the motor to its grave. The truck never left me stranded though, except IN the duck slough or snow bank on the lake which wasn't very often. it was an excellent offroad, icefishing machine. Fuel econ was fair for a v-6. 15 city, 22 highway with the right wind, had a topper.
I now have an 03 tundra that just turned 150,000 miles. Never been in the shop for any repairs since i owed it. bought it with 68,000 miles 3 years ago.
Everything in the cab is still "tight"; no rattles, squeaks or leaks; unlike my friends chevy 03 LT that feels like your riding in a buckboard. shut the doors and youd swear the trim is going to fall off the door, windows might fall out, plastic trim constantly falls off. not to mention the water pumps, feul pumps leaks and squeaks it has. he drives it very little, only 78,000 miles on his 03.
My tundras interior is a little smaller than the chevy, but it feels like your in a sports car compared to lumber wagon.

you'll be very happy buying a tundra. my circle of friends have had no less than 6 of them and everyone has been solid. (a side note to this post, i do not have experience with the new style, i personally don't like the looks) we have all had/have 06 or earlier models.

well, this got long. you'll be very happy with a tundra.

[jimmy4218]

I just put a new starter in my 99 Silverado (5.3). I've also replaced the fuel pressure regulator ($100.00). Other that regular maintenance- that's it mechanically. I've replaced both mirrors because I smashed them both in separate incidents that I won't discuus lol! I did have to replace the tailgate handle as it busted trying to open it at -20. I do have to replace the passenger side door handle though. 170,000 miles and still a great truck. I hope that when I do have to replace this truck, the next one is just as reliable.

[Esoxchaser]

If you need a truck to use as a truck, buy a GM or Ford.
If you are testicularly challenged and want a vehicle that looks like truck to look bad, get a Dodge.
If you want a truck that is even less of a "truck" than a Dodge, get a Toyota.

From a guy who has been selling and loading building materials on contractors trucks for over 30 years.
I have seen more Toyotas never make it out of the yard due to snapped axles and broken spring perches.........they are more numerous than the collapsing frame Toyota trucks, and there are plenty of those. Do your research.

[caffeineforall]

If you need a truck to use as a truck, buy a GM or Ford.
If you are testicularly challenged and want a vehicle that looks like truck to look bad, get a Dodge.
If you want a truck that is even less of a "truck" than a Dodge, get a Toyota.

From a guy who has been selling and loading building materials on contractors trucks for over 30 years.
I have seen more Toyotas never make it out of the yard due to snapped axles and broken spring perches.........they are more numerous than the collapsing frame Toyota trucks, and there are plenty of those. Do your research.

:rotfl: :popc1:

[please don't lie]

Interesting that the safety of Toyota's were called into question at the same time the big three were AT their lows. Anyone else think this was a union payoff visa via Obama to slash the Toyota brand so they didn't totally obliterate GM?

I'll never forget how rude those House and Senate members were to Mr Toyoda. As it turns out, all those recalls and taking Toyota's off the market, was all just a fabrication of "who"?

Gotta call BS on this post. You can't let Toy ota wiggle out of that recall they tried to duck by blaming it on Congress. Come on, most of them are sucking at the Toyota trough; Toyota tried to duck a recall just like the Jap car makers always do and they got caught. So save the BS.

[Esoxchaser]

http://www.google.com/search?q=toyota+frame+rot&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

[eriksat1]

I had a 1982 Toyota pick up I bought new, ran great and had great gas mileage 200,000 miles no major problems. Only bad thing they rust out.

[tigerjohn1554]

Interesting that the safety of Toyota's were called into question at the same time the big three were AT their lows. Anyone else think this was a union payoff visa via Obama to slash the Toyota brand so they didn't totally obliterate GM?

I'll never forget how rude those House and Senate members were to Mr Toyoda. As it turns out, all those recalls and taking Toyota's off the market, was all just a fabrication of "who"?
Should have shown him the same fair play they showed us at Pearl Harbor.

[hnd]

I just put a new starter in my 99 Silverado (5.3). I've also replaced the fuel pressure regulator ($100.00). Other that regular maintenance- that's it mechanically. I've replaced both mirrors because I smashed them both in separate incidents that I won't discuus lol! I did have to replace the tailgate handle as it busted trying to open it at -20. I do have to replace the passenger side door handle though. 170,000 miles and still a great truck. I hope that when I do have to replace this truck, the next one is just as reliable.

ford/chevy/dodge have near perfected the drivetrains on their trucks. they've just been doing it for so long. thats rarely anything you have to worry about other than factory error which i find is rampant. my biggest beef with them is their interiors. thats where i spend my time in the vehicle, the big 3 outside of their special packages cheapen the crap out of the interiors.

[beeman]

I really liked my 1.8 corolla motor and tranny. However the americans do get the nod for maybe having better suspensions. Other than that Toyotas kicks our arses. To see just how much better Jap is against say American go to dealer's. Compare new Ford Ranger to say new Toyota Tacoma I personally belive Tac is worth twice the ford in dollar's. America is still building some cheap crap. Toyota then Nissan,Hyundai/Kia,Ford in that order. At below Chrysler then down in ditch Chevrolet lol

[oldcrow]

Those auto ratings you read about are normaly for Initial Quality (short term, first 90 days)
I'm more concerned long terms, I have a 2000 Buick leSabre and yes it has had a couple issues but it has 307,000 miles on it

You want to know where your rig was made check the first digit of your VIN
1=USA
2=Canada
3=Mexico
There are other options, I don't know them and don't care

[tigerjohn1554]

LOL, I would be embarrassed to claim to have owned 14 toyota vehicles. I've had my 1998 Sierra 1500 since new, 182,000 and still outperforming your "yotoyas". And don't even get me started on my 03 Avalanche. I would never trust my Lund with an import. They don't haul many boats over there in Japan do they? :smirk: Nuff said.
Don't stoop yourself to an import, GM and Ford are producing tremendous vehicles lately.
Thanks Skar for choosing American!!! You saved someones job and should be proud of it! Look out Japan.

[mvwalleye]

Not as interested in the debate as much as I am giving positive feedback on our Toyotas. 3 fishing buddies in the last year have purchased since mine was purchased in 09. There not inexpensive but if you can afford, I believe they're worth it. The recall issue is interesting. Who owns GM? I don't believe it is the taxpayer but we paid for the bailout. Those who issue recalls also own GMC. Congratulations to ford for not having to take a handout.

[what do you think]

Not as interested in the debate as much as I am giving positive feedback on our Toyotas. 3 fishing buddies in the last year have purchased since mine was purchased in 09. There not inexpensive but if you can afford, I believe they're worth it. The recall issue is interesting. Who owns GM? I don't believe it is the taxpayer but we paid for the bailout. Those who issue recalls also own GMC. Congratulations to ford for not having to take a handout.

Do you think Toyota has ever received help from the Japanese gov't? The answer is YES -- should they be punished forever because they got gov't aid and still do??? Seems u want to punish GM forever because our gov't didn't let them disappear along with all GM jobs? Opps, forgot, Toyota never does anything wrong....

[hmmmmmmm]

All of which are built in American factories. Huh, see a trend?

So you are just basically against anything made by American workers? So, your job is in ???? China?

[mvwalleye]

Support and government mandated bailouts are different. Until GM gets their business model in order, they'll be in this position again. Look at their stock projections. My sequoia was assembled by excellent American workers, purchased from an American dealership from an American owner who contributes greatly to our local community. I respect all opinions on makes and hope GM can figure it out. Detroit is not the same. I don't believe china and Japan have much in common other than being in Asia? Consider freedoms and socialism vs. Capitalism. Sad thing is china may be closer to capitalism than we are right now. Check out coke asking to be traded on the Chinese market versus NYSE? Sad times but we will figure it out.

[workerunlogged]

Thanks Skar for choosing American!!! You saved someones job and should be proud of it! Look out Japan.

Wouldn't it be better if American workers were efficient enough to save their own jobs? What is wrong with competition and rising up? I work hard to keep my job, I don't ask people to buy my stuff so I can keep my job, I create value that leads to buyers. W

[Buck Snort]

Yep.

[Buck Snort]

My truck has 160,000 miles as well (97) No major problems, use it every day, very dependable. OOOOPPPPS! wrong thread it's a Ford f150

Well, we knew it wasn't a Chevy.

[reeltime84]

I DO have a 05 Chevy 1500 with 150,000 miles on it. It tows my 33 ft camper and my Ranger without any problems. I've had zero issues with my truck, besides the cd player going out. Otherwise rock solid...not one problem.

I have also owned two 4runners and 4 camry's all since 92 when Camry came out with the new body style....all great vehicles. My wife now drives an Accord that has been great so far.

I will say however, I wouldn't own a GM car, with the exception of maybe a Buick. But I love my Chevy truck!!

[reeltime84]

Wouldn't it be better if American workers were efficient enough to save their own jobs? What is wrong with competition and rising up? I work hard to keep my job, I don't ask people to buy my stuff so I can keep my job, I create value that leads to buyers. W

The answer to this question is unions. I'm not for or against them. American companies are just sick of dealing with them. I've seen the good, bad and ugly of unions and their workers. As with everything their are pros and con's to them.

[Guestt]

I think that resale value says it all. If they weren't that much better, then people would not be willing to pay more for them period.

[JD Powers]

JD Powers AND Consumer Reports ranks Toyota higher than Ford or GM.

[went522]

Kind of interesting reading the thoughts and opinions...

What the hey...I'll join the thread.

Had lots of older used rigs "growing up", they are what they are. In 02 we started buying new or newer vehicles. My trucks, both bought new were a 02 F150 Super crew...Traded it in at 100+K. Only issue was with the breaks wearing prematurely, something about the rim design not cooling the breaks. Awesome truck!! Bought a 05 Silverado crew, would have gone ford but had 2.5K in GM bucks and employee pricing along with a great interest rate....hard to not buy when the total price was 6K less than Ford! Ahh my silverado... At 38K wheel bearing snapped and left me stranded on the road, 2 or 3 clanky U joints, a few Intermediate steering shafts, one blower motor relay, one blower motor, one wiring harness...not cheap$$$!!!! This all happened between approx 38K and 60K, I currently have 82K on this rig. Did I get a lemon, maybe. Just hoping the issues stop for a while.

Wifes vehicles. I might be off on my years but close. She puts miles on for work so goes through cars, the following were purchased with around 30K and sold just before 100K. 02 impala, OK car, great MPG at 32ish. Had blower motor issues, a few intermediate steering shafts...but all in all, not a bad car. 04 Mazda 626 not a single issue, she didn't like it though...felt to small 29ish mpg. 05 Taurus, ran good but had had some interior fit N finish problems, TERRIBLE MPG at 22 on a good day!! 08 impala(GM certified), JUNK. Nothing but electronic issues from puter, TPMS, warning lights going off all the time, check engine. This thing had some electronic gremlins! But, got great MPG at 32ish. Traded that car in THE DAY warranty was up! 06 camry, awesome car! Not one single issue and got 32-35mpg! Currenty she's driving a new 11 Nissan Rouge, 10K, no issues so far.

Honestly, when we looked at the cars she's had, not such great luck with GM or Ford, be it the poor MPG of the Taurus or the JUNK 09 Impala. But, the Mazda and Camry were ZERO issue cars. Any question why she's not in a "american made", vehicle?

My next truck will be a...I dunno, anything but a GM! With fair certainty I can say my wifes next vehicle will be a "Jap".

Who's making the best cars today, imho...Toyota, Hyundai, Nissan, Mazda, etc...maybe add Kia to that list? See a theme? As far as trucks go, I like the Fords and will also consider a Toyota or Nissan.

There's IS a reason GM's in the position they're in, same goes for Dodge/chrysler. There's also a reason the Jap vehicles, like Toyota, add Hyundai to that list, have such a huge following here in the states...they simply make reliable vehicles!

Won't knock a guy for driving whatever vehicle he wants, we all make our own choices...to each their own.

BIRDDOG

[Did u ever consider]

The answer to this question is unions. I'm not for or against them. American companies are just sick of dealing with them. I've seen the good, bad and ugly of unions and their workers. As with everything their are pros and con's to them.

Did you ever consider it might also be management -- I've seen the good, bad and ugly of management. They have cut wages while taking huge increases for themselves. They have cut every benefit they can for workers; taken bigger and benefits for themselves usually with huge tax breaks. They have bemoaned he difference in workers wages, but never discuss the fact that their compensation is staggering compared to the management of foreign companies they are competing against. They don't consider their employees they just close profitable plants when they can't ring anymore local and national tax breaks out of strapped communities and their NATION and they don't give a crap about the communities or their nation. Let's compare the heads of the big 3 (or any American corp you want to pick) with their Japanese counter part and you will see the real story. The big 3 and most other corps are very, very short sighted -- everything is based on greed, getting the most for top management and big investor, while their counterparts have long range goals and the plans to get their. Their counterparts are always looking at the "entire" company, not just their own greed. Now you company guys can explain to me how our top executives are worth much, much more than their Japanese counterparts when they, according to you, build such superior products?

[eriksat1]

If someone would just make a car/truck that the average person could still work on would be a big step in the right direction. We know things wear out why not make a car/truck that is capable of being repaired and maintained for a low cost by an average person? And not need special tools and a computer to tell you what computer sensor went bad. And what are these parts made of gold? I backed into a new ford pick up at work with a fork lift on one side, broke the head light and cracked the plastic grill, and the plastic strip that goes just below the grill above the bumper, did not touch the bumper, fender, or hood. The bill was over $3,000???? I said what the ****? a head light plastic grill, and plastic strip $3,000 this has to be highway robbery. No wonder a new truck cost $30,000 and our insurance is so high. This country needs to straighten out it's act. The average person can not afford to take there car in to a dealer to get worked on, it's ridiculous.

[hnd]

If someone would just make a car/truck that the average person could still work on would be a big step in the right direction. We know things wear out why not make a car/truck that is capable of being repaired and maintained for a low cost by an average person? And not need special tools and a computer to tell you what computer sensor went bad. And what are these parts made of gold? I backed into a new ford pick up at work with a fork lift on one side, broke the head light and cracked the plastic grill, and the plastic strip that goes just below the grill above the bumper, did not touch the bumper, fender, or hood. The bill was over $3,000???? I said what the ****? a head light plastic grill, and plastic strip $3,000 this has to be highway robbery. No wonder a new truck cost $30,000 and our insurance is so high. This country needs to straighten out it's act. The average person can not afford to take there car in to a dealer to get worked on, it's ridiculous.

i do work on my 2004+ cars all the time.

[eriksat1]

i do work on my 2004+ cars all the time.


I'm very proud of you.

When do you want to come over and change spark plugs on my 2004 Ford F150 5.4 triton?

[hnd]

I'm very proud of you.

When do you want to come over and change spark plugs on my 2004 Ford F150 5.4 triton?

if my wife can do it, i'm sure you can figure it out. :laugh:

[vtec]

I am with hnd. If you really just take a look many things on the new cars are even simpler to replace than years ago because most parts are not repaired anymore, it's quicker and easier to just replace. And it makes more money for the guys that do the fixing to sell new parts. I am all for mechanics making a good wage on people that don't bother to try and understand how things work, they are doing these people a service.

I enjoy working on my cars and also don't have the funds to pay to get it done so I investigate everything myself and seldom go in for anything but major repairs. Ironically, most cars put a plastic cover over the engine parts that scares everyone off. There is very little change to the basic engines except for fuel delivery and ignition and both are really simplified and far more reliable as a result. Got a price from dealer to change spark plugs on our van just to see how much. $237!!!! Now the plugs were $8-11 each(can't remember what I paid) but no way was I not gonna have it done. Most engines have COPS(coil over plugs) which eliminate the need for high voltage plug wires from a distributor or coil pack. If anything, these are far easier to do than cars 30 years ago. One hex bolt holding the COP and unplug the low voltage wire, very simple. Overhead cam engines have plugs 6-8 inches down a hole but are really easy with an extension.

BTW, my plug job took 40 minutes total, and that was including the beer I enjoyed during the last 10 minutes.

[reeltime84]

Did you ever consider it might also be management -- I've seen the good, bad and ugly of management. They have cut wages while taking huge increases for themselves. They have cut every benefit they can for workers; taken bigger and benefits for themselves usually with huge tax breaks. They have bemoaned he difference in workers wages, but never discuss the fact that their compensation is staggering compared to the management of foreign companies they are competing against. They don't consider their employees they just close profitable plants when they can't ring anymore local and national tax breaks out of strapped communities and their NATION and they don't give a crap about the communities or their nation. Let's compare the heads of the big 3 (or any American corp you want to pick) with their Japanese counter part and you will see the real story. The big 3 and most other corps are very, very short sighted -- everything is based on greed, getting the most for top management and big investor, while their counterparts have long range goals and the plans to get their. Their counterparts are always looking at the "entire" company, not just their own greed. Now you company guys can explain to me how our top executives are worth much, much more than their Japanese counterparts when they, according to you, build such superior products?

A little bitter are we? I see your point though....well said

[reeltime84]

I am with hnd. If you really just take a look many things on the new cars are even simpler to replace than years ago because most parts are not repaired anymore, it's quicker and easier to just replace. And it makes more money for the guys that do the fixing to sell new parts. I am all for mechanics making a good wage on people that don't bother to try and understand how things work, they are doing these people a service.

I enjoy working on my cars and also don't have the funds to pay to get it done so I investigate everything myself and seldom go in for anything but major repairs. Ironically, most cars put a plastic cover over the engine parts that scares everyone off. There is very little change to the basic engines except for fuel delivery and ignition and both are really simplified and far more reliable as a result. Got a price from dealer to change spark plugs on our van just to see how much. $237!!!! Now the plugs were $8-11 each(can't remember what I paid) but no way was I not gonna have it done. Most engines have COPS(coil over plugs) which eliminate the need for high voltage plug wires from a distributor or coil pack. If anything, these are far easier to do than cars 30 years ago. One hex bolt holding the COP and unplug the low voltage wire, very simple. Overhead cam engines have plugs 6-8 inches down a hole but are really easy with an extension.

BTW, my plug job took 40 minutes total, and that was including the beer I enjoyed during the last 10 minutes.
I'm going to change my own plugs next time, just because of your post. One caveat..If a person does try and change your own plugs, make sure you gap them correctly!

[not bitter]

A little bitter are we? I see your point though....well said

I'm not bitter. I was in management, just telling it like I witnessed it. It really comes down to respect. Management is not respected because the corp culture teaches managers to disrespect almost everyone but their boss :-) Top management is extremely overpaid because the board of directors is just a bunch of their buddies who do almost nothing, except treat management very well so they can keep their cushy board seats. Of course, they in turn put their friends (including he CEOs whose board they serve on) on their boards. You don't see that crap in Japan. Wonder why investors put up with it? Oops, forgot, I do know -- the big investors ARE ON the boards :-)

[reeltime84]

I'm not bitter. I was in management, just telling it like I witnessed it. It really comes down to respect. Management is not respected because the corp culture teaches managers to disrespect almost everyone but their boss :-) Top management is extremely overpaid because the board of directors is just a bunch of their buddies who do almost nothing, except treat management very well so they can keep their cushy board seats. Of course, they in turn put their friends (including he CEOs whose board they serve on) on their boards. You don't see that crap in Japan. Wonder why investors put up with it? Oops, forgot, I do know -- the big investors ARE ON the boards :-)

Yep, I witnessed it in DC, as I was one of Bush jr's photographers. Our politicians are NO better. Oh my, the stories I could tell you, they would make your stomach turn. I have lots of friends who worked for Bush senior and Clinton. It's same ole same ole. Sadly, I think it's been that way for a long long time and it won't change. In the long run (and short) it's us, the American consumers who get the shaft. The auto industry is only one example, the oil industry is another. sad.....

[eriksat1]

I'm going to change my own plugs next time, just because of your post. One caveat..If a person does try and change your own plugs, make sure you gap them correctly!

Before you try just do a little search on changing spark plugs on a 2004 Ford 5.4 Triton engine.

[hnd]

it took about 3 hours on my neighbors. we assume we did it correctly. he only put another 10k miles on it before he sold it. it was a complete pita though.

[eriksat1]

The problem with the oem plugs in them is they break off when you try and take them out then you need to buy the special broken plug removal tool. I was told by 2 other mechanics and the Snap on tool guy not to even try it unless you have the broken plug remover, plus soak them over night in good penetrating oil.

[hnd]

The problem with the oem plugs in them is they break off when you try and take them out then you need to buy the special broken plug removal tool. I was told by 2 other mechanics and the Snap on tool guy not to even try it unless you have the broken plug remover, plus soak them over night in good penetrating oil.

yeah we soaked them in pbblaster. i think they are welded in at the factory in a spot.

[43rqg]

I think 10 years ago it would have been a great idea to switch. These days you'll find as good if not better value in domestic cars. Ford's vehicle lineup, in particular, is very impressive to me.

[fishingfrenzy]

Parents last two vehicles:

1996 Chevy 1500 Truck: over 250,000 miles, no major problems (door handles were terrible, ONLY thing that could be counted on to break every few years)

1998 Chevy Tahoe: Over 220,000 miles, no major problems. Traded in for a fuel efficient car (Subaru Outback, AWD, has averaged 35 MPG this summer)

I think as much as anything, it's how you drive your vehicles, and how you maintain them.

[tigerjohn1554]

interesting that the safety of toyota's were called into question at the same time the big three were at their lows. Anyone else think this was a union payoff visa via obama to slash the toyota brand so they didn't totally obliterate gm?

I'll never forget how rude those house and senate members were to mr toyoda. As it turns out, all those recalls and taking toyota's off the market, was all just a fabrication of "who"?
right to work is a divisive political statement not part of any economic development plan. 'in our glorious fight for civil rights,we must guard against being fooled by false slogans,as right to work. It provides no "rights" and no "works". It's purpose is to destroy labor unions and the freedom of collective bargaining...we demand this fraud to be stopped" martin luther king jr. Speaking in 1961.

[Further North]

I think 10 years ago it would have been a great idea to switch. These days you'll find as good if not better value in domestic cars. Ford's vehicle lineup, in particular, is very impressive to me.

Yep. People who stay focused on the imported brand are missing a heck of a deal on most domestics. Check back in the thread to see all the vehicles I've owned, most were imports...but the real value today is in domestics, the quality is on par, and the price - especially used - is definitely in their favor.

I find it amusing that this thread was started way back in Feb...and the OP already bought his truck months ago...but it got dug up and started the import/domestic argument all over again...

...like I said back then: anyone who puts brand loyalty and the false absurdity of "providing jobs for Americans" ahead of financial responsibility for themselves and their family has a problem with their priorities...buy the vehicle that fits your needs, or that you like the best at the best price - anything else is pure silliness, grandstanding, false patriotism, ego fluffing or just bad decision making. Haranguing others for their choices is just mean spirited abuse from people who get their jollies trying to control others or bullying.

I have a friend who supplies tooling to all the auto manufactures; his take: "They are all great vehicles, except the few individual ones that are not - and they are no more common from one maker to another. When you get one, get rid of it and move on."

[Lomax]

95 F-150 92K replaced camshaft, rebuilt auto tranny

2000 K2500 81K air conditioner compressor replaced front wheelbearings and hubs replaced, engine oil cooler tubes replaced, manifold studs breaking body rusting

2005 Toyota Tundra 110K no repairs!!!!!!!!!!!

NUFF SAID!!!!!!!!!!!

[Steven Pederson]

95 F-150 92K replaced camshaft, rebuilt auto tranny

2000 K2500 81K air conditioner compressor replaced front wheelbearings and hubs replaced, engine oil cooler tubes replaced, manifold studs breaking body rusting

2005 Toyota Tundra 110K no repairs!!!!!!!!!!!

NUFF SAID!!!!!!!!!!!


Your comparing a 2005 with a 1995????

[Lomax]

Your comparing a 2005 with a 1995????

'Just sayin'

[tigerjohn1554]

Does anyone know which truck was voted 2011 truck of the year?

[teamlund]

95 F-150 92K replaced camshaft, rebuilt auto tranny

2000 K2500 81K air conditioner compressor replaced front wheelbearings and hubs replaced, engine oil cooler tubes replaced, manifold studs breaking body rusting

2005 Toyota Tundra 110K no repairs!!!!!!!!!!!

NUFF SAID!!!!!!!!!!!


all vehicles have come a long way in that 10 years....Thats not even a fair comparison....Gotta have something better than that.

I can remember my old mans 92ish F150...That thing sucked... I have owned a 99 F150 and now a 2005 and I cant even compare them as they are in completly diff ends of the spectrum but they are the same truck.

I own alittle of everything. American products and jap products. Merc verado, Ford F150, Kawasaki praire, Suzuki boulevard, honda lawnmower and generator, yamaha Vino, ect.... They are all great products except the honda lawnmower (hate it)......In this day and age especially with the internet a company cant afford to put out a crap product or they wont survive, just ask general motors.

Today we have the luxury (my opinion) to go out and buy what suites our needs without having to worry about the brand...A yota or a ford or a nissan will all pull a boat down the road just fine and be a great truck...

[jimmy4218]

Does anyone know which truck was voted 2011 truck of the year?

Found it!
http://www.motortrend.com/oftheyear/truck/1102_2011_motor_trend_truck_of_the_year_chevrolet_ silverado_hd/index.html

[Further North]

Today we have the luxury (my opinion) to go out and buy what suites our needs without having to worry about the brand...A yota or a ford or a nissan will all pull a boat down the road just fine and be a great truck...

Yep. And all the rhetoric and emotion in the world won't change that. I will never understand people who choose to berate others because of the choices they make in vehicles..or boats...or whatever.

[eriksat1]

The fact is it doesn't take much to put a made in USA sticker on anything, all it needs is to be assembled or a part of it made in the USA. If you broke down individual components of just about anything sold you would find most parts not made in the USA. Just a fact. We are living in a world economy better get used to it. If we want more jobs we better start making a better product and for cheaper money and yes unions are a big reason why we don't. They are great for the employee but not so good for the consumer.

[tigerjohn1554]

The fact is it doesn't take much to put a made in USA sticker on anything, all it needs is to be assembled or a part of it made in the USA. If you broke down individual components of just about anything sold you would find most parts not made in the USA. Just a fact. We are living in a world economy better get used to it. If we want more jobs we better start making a better product and for cheaper money and yes unions are a big reason why we don't. They are great for the employee but not so good for the consumer.
Just how much longer do you think this nation can continue to be a strong country? A leader in so many positive ways of life?(You would agree with that I hope). Just because you want to close your mind to all the injustices still being committed by China, Japan, etc. shows a lot. Why wouldnt you choose to support your neighbor, city, state, country? Because its made by union members trying to make a decent living for thier family? A new hire averages about 14 dollars an hour. Would you say thats overpaid? Have you ever worked an assembly line? Not that easy. And please dont pull out the "Thats Global Economy" card. How weak. When you get a chance go through your house and check out "Made in" stickers. I've noticed too **** many in my own but I do make an effort to buy Made in USA. No more MILKBONE chews for my dogs either.Lastly, and perhaps most important, find out more about the countries you are giving your money to. I mean take a good hard look. Not that hard to do.

[Vikings Fan]

This post was a long read but interesting. Buy what you want, drive what you want. For my part, when I look out of my second story window, in my driveway I see two Fords and two Chevrolet's. All of which have been excellent vehicles. That is good enough for me.

[teamlund]

Just how much longer do you think this nation can continue to be a strong country? A leader in so many positive ways of life?(You would agree with that I hope). Just because you want to close your mind to all the injustices still being committed by China, Japan, etc. shows a lot. Why wouldnt you choose to support your neighbor, city, state, country? Because its made by union members trying to make a decent living for thier family? A new hire averages about 14 dollars an hour. Would you say thats overpaid? Have you ever worked an assembly line? Not that easy. And please dont pull out the "Thats Global Economy" card. How weak. When you get a chance go through your house and check out "Made in" stickers. I've noticed too **** many in my own but I do make an effort to buy Made in USA. No more MILKBONE chews for my dogs either.Lastly, and perhaps most important, find out more about the countries you are giving your money to. I mean take a good hard look. Not that hard to do.

So its not a global economy? How can american business' that have to pay someone $25 an hour to drive a forklift compete aginst a chinese company that pays someone 10$ a day to do the same job? they cant! And our weak politicaians refuse to place tarrifs on the goods coming into this coutry to put american products in line with overseas products. Maybe if we raise taxes and regulations on business' it will help.

[eriksat1]

For the record I have a older Ranger boat with a Mercury outboard, a Ford truck and a Pontiac van and a old Chevy blazer. I worked in a union for 10 years and made **** good money for doing the same job as a less paid non union guy would make at a non union shop. I'm no economic genius so I don't know how we are going to get out of this high rate of unemployment situation we are digging ourself into. I'm ready to start farming and work at being as self sufficient as I can be. I don't have much faith in our government helping us out with retirement and SS. anymore. Fish, hunt, farm, burn wood for heat. Its a sad state of affairs for our youth.

[teamlund]

For the record I have a older Ranger boat with a Mercury outboard, a Ford truck and a Pontiac van and a old Chevy blazer. I worked in a union for 10 years and made **** good money for doing the same job as a less paid non union guy would make at a non union shop. I'm no economic genius so I don't know how we are going to get out of this high rate of unemployment situation we are digging ourself into. I'm ready to start farming and work at being as self sufficient as I can be. I don't have much faith in our government helping us out with retirement and SS. anymore. Fish, hunt, farm, burn wood for heat. Its a sad state of affairs for our youth.


I will never be able to retire. I am being taxed to death. Uncle sam has spent every dime of SS even thoguh I will have to keep paying in my entire life. There is hope that our property taxes may go down here for the first time in a LONG time but it looks like the unions are going to recall our governor who has balanced the WI budget without raising taxes on ANYONE!!!!!! The onion again showing that it really doesnt care about anyone other than its own power.

[Golden Eagle]

Does anyone know which truck was voted 2011 truck of the year?

When I was much younger and much smarter I purchased two Motor Trend Cars of the Year. They lasted 70,000 miles each. Sold both to the local junk dealer. Wish we had bypassed the middle man - ME.

Motor Trend no longer influences my vehicle buying decisions.

[Further North]

Here's the problem with "supporting your neighbor": In the 70s, 80s and good portion of the 90s, complacency, poor quality, terrible management and sub par product development along with trying to sell people product the companies wanted to make rather than what the consumers wanted to buy created an atmosphere where "supporting your neighbor" effectively paid them for producing a product that performed poorly, broke a lot and wasn't really what people wanted...and created the economic and business that allowed first the Japanese, then other countries, a toehold that they took advantage of...all of which led to the absurd bailouts we all have to live with.

Buying a product that offers poor value, for whatever reason, supports the continued manufacture of that product, and allows the competition to come in and steal your market. It's a bad business plan, and a bad choice by the consumer.

[Further North]

So its not a global economy? How can American business' that have to pay someone $25 an hour to drive a forklift compete against a Chinese company that pays someone 10$ a day to do the same job? they cant! And our weak politicians refuse to place tariffs on the goods coming into this country to put American products in line with overseas products. Maybe if we raise taxes and regulations on business' it will help.

Exactly - those are important considerations also - and if we we want remain competitive, we need to provide the same or better products at the same or better prices...and we have to balance that with our desire to export our products to other countries...where we'll have to - again - provide the same or better products at the same or better prices.

It's never as simple as some folks want to make it.

[teamlund]

Exactly - those are important considerations also - and if we we want remain competitive, we need to provide the same or better products at the same or better prices...and we have to balance that with our desire to export our products to other countries...where we'll have to - again - provide the same or better products at the same or better prices.

It's never as simple as some folks want to make it.

I never understood why american hasnt hammered forgein goods with tarrifs?

It would increase revenue and we all know we need it now. Business' woud STAY in america instead of leaving since there would be no point building it in china if you had to pay a massive tax to get the product back into this country. Ect ect ect.. The list could go on and on....
oh wait, big governement goons on both sides of the fence have been bought out by big business'.......

[Further North]

Here is a great article and graphic representation of domestic content at Car & Driver:

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/11q1/domestic_bliss_a_graphic_representation_of_what_s_ really_made_in_america_-feature

[eriksat1]

The reason I will never again buy a new car/truck is that with the high price and low resale value, plus the thing is just about worn out by the time you finally finish paying it off. You are so far ahead of the game by buying a used vehicle and paying cash its not even funny, then use some of the money you would be making in payments to get it in perfect running order.

[tigerjohn1554]

Exactly - those are important considerations also - and if we we want remain competitive, we need to provide the same or better products at the same or better prices...and we have to balance that with our desire to export our products to other countries...where we'll have to - again - provide the same or better products at the same or better prices.

It's never as simple as some folks want to make it.
How's Global Economy been working for you? Now the second part:Where does your dollar go? Google Chinese civil rights and others. Try Bluefin Tuna. Try Japanese whaling.Try melamine. Would you want to drive a forklift? $25 an hour is a stretch. Try global warning. Did you know China pollutes this planet more than Japan, India and the US combined?

[Further North]

I never understood why american hasnt hammered forgein goods with tarrifs?

It would increase revenue and we all know we need it now. Business' woud STAY in america instead of leaving since there would be no point building it in china if you had to pay a massive tax to get the product back into this country. Ect ect ect.. The list could go on and on....
oh wait, big government goons on both sides of the fence have been bought out by big business'.......

Your last sentence is part of it...

...most of the rest of it is that consumers want good products, cheap...and because they don't see the long term effect of those buying decisions...we get what we have...the flip side of that is that if we create an economy that's dependent on tariffs creating artificially high prices for goods produced overseas....we effectively make our dollar worth less on international markets because if you can buy a fratisstanerator made in SE Asia for $7 in the rest of the world, but it costs $27 here because of tarrifs designed to support domestic fratisstanerators...the fratisstanerator is still only worth $ to the rest of the world...making our $27 worth $7 everywhere but here...

There's also our desire to export our goods to other countries - who will counter our tariffs with ones of their own...Japan has had high import taxing for a long time, and their economy took a worse pounding than ours did, and many think that protectionist tactics had a lot to do with that.

[Further North]

How's Global Economy been working for you?

Quite well, actually - thanks.

Try global warning.

...let's not even start that political topic here...there is no agreement on whether or not it's real or not, and the two sides can't discuss it rationally without name calling and personal attacks.

Did you know China pollutes this planet more than Japan, India and the US combined?

Yep. What are we gonna do about it?

[Cat Man]

The short answer is Yes. The long answer is yes, for sure.

[Further North]

The short answer is Yes. The long answer is yes, for sure.

Actually, it's "Maybe" and only sorta...but the Fan Boys drinking the Kool-Aid don't want to hear that....

[teamlund]

How's Global Economy been working for you? Now the second part:Where does your dollar go? Google Chinese civil rights and others. Try Bluefin Tuna. Try Japanese whaling.Try melamine. Would you want to drive a forklift? $25 an hour is a stretch. Try global warning. Did you know China pollutes this planet more than Japan, India and the US combined?


Check the paper industry once.... mid $20 an hour to stare at a machine or drive a fork lift. Than poeple wonder why they go out of business...

Between the insane pay, insane taxes, insane regualtions, and lower sales these companies are doomed as they have been shutting down 1 by 1 for years....

The high pay is great but it cant be maintained with the combination of high taxes and regs........Something has to give. It would be nice to see uncle sam stop taking away from the ones that allow a middle class to exist.....Taxing the rich corporations just puts the rest of us out of jobs.

Its funny listening to guys that make 50+K a year on a forklift talk about how the rich corporations should be taxed more....They fricken work for a rich corporation! How will that better your situation or job security?

[micropterus]

this thread was "Are Toyota's that much better? ":popc1::popc1::popc1:

[Further North]

Its funny listening to guys that make 50+K a year on a forklift talk about how the rich corporations should be taxed more....They fricken work for a rich corporation! How will that better your situation or job security?

Either they'll be out of a job right away becasue of cuts needed to pay the greater taxes...or...When the corporation shuts down, it'll put them on the street where their chances of getting a job with similar pay and benefits are zero....

[eriksat1]

. It would be nice to see uncle sam stop taking away from the ones that allow a middle class to exist.....Taxing the rich corporations just puts the rest of us out of jobs.


That is just a big bunch of crap I'm tired of listening to. They have had the tax breaks for how many years now? Where are all the extra jobs? We have higher unemployment than ever, time to put that notion to bed. It won't lose jobs it might put a damper on there 2nd house lake house, or there Porsche for weekend drives.

[Further North]

That is just a big bunch of crap I'm tired of listening to. They have had the tax breaks for how many years now? Where are all the extra jobs? We have higher unemployment than ever, time to put that notion to bed. It won't lose jobs it might put a damper on there 2nd house lake house, or there Porsche for weekend drives.

Couplea things:


Corporations don't have "2nd house lake house, or there Porsche for weekend drives"
The reason there are not more jobs is that there is no work. The reason there is no work is because people are not buying things. Would you have the "corporations" (which are businesses just like most of us work for) hire people to just stand around...or to make things people won't buy and store them in warehouses?

I am, by the way, with you on business subsidies - I'd end them all tomorrow if it wouldn't trash the economy. If a business can't stand on it's feet without government hand outs, it should be gone.

[Derwood]

"...or to make things people won't buy and store them in warehouses?"

I agree. But I won't be buying those things either after my taxes go up instead... So what are we to do? Everyone has a reason why that burden should be put on someone else. Can't be the poor because they have no money. Can't be the rich because they provide all the jobs. That leaves the middle class, right? Nice... How long before there's only two classes then?

on topic: I love Chevy. Wife had two Toyotas and both were okay. Camry was perfect but really dull. Rav 4 was cute but noisy, cheap inside and full of rattles that the dealer could not get rid of (after several hours in the shop over the course of several days... She now drives a Nissa Rogue and has had no issues.

[KTurner]

Are Toyota's that much better? No

[Javelin360]

Couplea things:


Corporations don't have "2nd house lake house, or there Porsche for weekend drives"
The reason there are not more jobs is that there is no work. The reason there is no work is because people are not buying things. Would you have the "corporations" (which are businesses just like most of us work for) hire people to just stand around...or to make things people won't buy and store them in warehouses?
I am, by the way, with you on business subsidies - I'd end them all tomorrow if it wouldn't trash the economy. If a business can't stand on it's feet without government hand outs, it should be gone.

People are buying things! It just that the majority of the products being built are outside the country. We have shifted our prosperity to other countries.

[DeValda]

Are Toyota's that much better? No

Oh?

[Further North]

"...or to make things people won't buy and store them in warehouses?"

I agree. But I won't be buying those things either after my taxes go up instead... So what are we to do? Everyone has a reason why that burden should be put on someone else. Can't be the poor because they have no money. Can't be the rich because they provide all the jobs. That leaves the middle class, right? Nice... How long before there's only two classes then?

To the what can we do? Pretty easy to me: Stop spending so much. We're borrowing 40 cents of every dollar we spend, and that's nuts. It's not a political problem (What I mean is it's not Ds or Rs), it's a pollitician problem. You're exactly right in that every one says their stuff can't be touched...but here's the reality: everybody's stuff needs to get cut.

The problem I have with "the rich" is not paying at least the same percentage as people making less - that's just absurd. The problem I have with "The poor" is that too many of them are dependent on money taxed away from others - big problem, they can vote themselves more of our dollars without paying a dime in. Businesses are way over subsidized, a lot of the things that government is into, it has no business being in, and it is so inefficient in the things that it is (in most cases) we're flushing dollars at an incredible rate.

I could care less about "classes" I think that's political hyperbole and media rhetoric...what I do care about is the absurd amount of money we're spending without having a hope of getting it back without creating that very situation you referenced above: we won't spend money because the government will tax it away and spend it in foolish, inefficient ways...

But that's just my opinion.