: Lund IPS & IPS2 Dead Rise . . .


NMG
02-20-2011, 08:25 PM
Hi everyone,

Do you know if the IPS and IPS2 have the same dead rise? Also, does the dead rise vary by model or do they all have the same degree entry? I can't seem to find anywhere what the dead rise is for the various models. Any ideas what it would be at the transom and the bow for a boat like the 1675 Pro Guide?

3M TA3
02-21-2011, 07:21 AM
If you had this information, what will you do with it? How valuable is it in your boat purchase decision? About 20+ degrees give or take a little is typical for a Deep V boat. I wouldn't know how one would determine if one angle is better than another unless you're a boat designer. As a consumer, I don't know that I need to know. Help me understand your reasons for asking. This could be an interesting topic of discussion, I think.

walley wana be
02-21-2011, 08:34 AM
The 'deeper' the "V", the better the ride in rougher waters!

Dave C
02-21-2011, 10:54 AM
One reason may be that more boat brands are including the degree of deadrise in their specs for each model. And as the last poster mentioned, it is related to (but not the only variable) smoothness of ride. Inquiring minds what to know.

T Mac
02-21-2011, 01:35 PM
Hi everyone,

Do you know if the IPS and IPS2 have the same dead rise? Also, does the dead rise vary by model or do they all have the same degree entry? I can't seem to find anywhere what the dead rise is for the various models. Any ideas what it would be at the transom and the bow for a boat like the 1675 Pro Guide?


It does vary on different models and years.. But if you were to compare an older (same size) ProV with IPS and the same boat next year w/ IPS2 for example, ...in this particular case, they'd be the same hull except for the strakes.

You could drop an email to Lund and the engineering department has that information.

T Mac
02-21-2011, 01:40 PM
The 'deeper' the "V", the better the ride in rougher waters!

True with some explanation...
The deeper the V in the rear portion of the boat, the more gas to keep the boat on plane.
And the more unstable at rest (it'll lean very easily).
But if the deep V is in the front ...and there is less V in the back...and reverse chines are present, now you have the modern style hull, seen on the more popular big water fishing boats.

NMG
02-21-2011, 02:10 PM
Hi everyone,

Yes, I am curious about it just to get an idea of how the various hulls will handle rougher water. I know that hull design, length, weight and all sorts of other factors will impact it, but so would the amount of dead rise. It's just one more piece of information that I think would be useful to know.

Just for some context, I've had boats in the past that had a constant 12 degree dead rise and found that while they were very stable at rest, they did tend to pound a little bit once the waves picked up. Like T-Mac said, many models will have a variable dead rise with a much sharper bow entry and these will cut the waves much better even if the dead rise at the transom is less. From looking at some of the various pics online, it looks like the IPS and IPS2 hulls don't have a great amount of dead rise at the transom (not much more than my old 12 degree hulls), but that they do have a sharper bow entry. It would be interesting to get the specs as I suspect it would help me understand how the hulls may perform in comparison to previous boats I have owned.

This post isn't meant as a criticism of Lund or anything like that. I just notice that more and more makers are listing the dead rise on their website. Crestliner for example, shows that their new Pro Tiller 1650 has a 12 degree dead rise, whereas the Pro Tiller 1750 has a 17 degree dead rise. To me, this would suggest that the 1750 would handle rough water much better, not even factoring in the extra length and width. I'd be curious how this hull would compare to the 1675 Pro Guide, since they seem to be in direct competition with each other.

I'd also be curious to see how models within Lund's own lineup even compare. The 1600 Alaskan and the 1625 Rebel for example. They both have the same IPS hull, but do they share the same dead rise? Again, it's just more to get an idea of hull characteristics.

T-Mac, I like your suggestion of contacting Lund and I think I'll do that. Like I said, this isn't meant as a critique, I'm just trying to understand how the hulls vary from model to model and from Lund to their competitors. Many of the hull design elements like reverse chines seem pretty common these days, so the more info one has, the better they can understand the benefits of one design over another.

Thanks for all of the feedback everyone!

KSauers
02-21-2011, 02:35 PM
Looking at these 2 it appears the rebel has more deadrise. It looks like it had a deeper v to me. Would it then cut waves better? It's also narrower. Where would the new Impact fit in? How much does beam effect rough water ride?

Andre (wallyandre)
02-21-2011, 04:38 PM
Not a official source:
20.5 deg: Smokecraft 172 Pro Angler
20 deg: Smokecraft 182 Pro Mag
20 deg: Starcraft 186 Superfisherman (19)
20 deg: Tracker Targa V18 Combo 2011 (20)
19 deg: Tracker Pro-Guide V-175 (19)
19 deg: Starcraft 2050 STX Pro-Serie (19)
19 deg: Ranger Reata 1850 RS
18 deg: Legend 19 Xcaliber
17 deg: Princecraft 185 Super-Pro
16.5 deg: Legend 18 Xtreme
16 deg: Princecraft 179 Pro Serie
16 deg: Princecraft 182 Sport Serie
14.5 deg: Crestliner 1850 Sportfish (17)
14 deg: Princecraft 186 Platinum SE
14 deg: Microcraft 1763 Aggressor
14 deg: Lund Rebel 1825
13.5 deg: Lund Impact 1775 SS
13 deg: Crestliner 1800 SuperHank (17)
12 deg: G3 Angler V175FS (13)
12 deg: G3 Angler V172F (13)
11 deg: Microcraft 1977 Aggressor EXP

3M TA3
02-21-2011, 05:08 PM
Word of mouth about boat performance carries far more weight with me than some number that means nothing to me. Never concerned myself with statistics like that although I must say if I wanted an 18 foot boat with a 8 foot beam, well then I would narrow down my choices using that info. I honestly can't say that I would everr consider Dead Rise in my boat buying decision.

3M TA3
02-21-2011, 05:17 PM
Not a official source:
20.5 deg: Smokecraft 172 Pro Angler
20 deg: Smokecraft 182 Pro Mag
20 deg: Starcraft 186 Superfisherman (19)
20 deg: Tracker Targa V18 Combo 2011 (20)
19 deg: Tracker Pro-Guide V-175 (19)
19 deg: Starcraft 2050 STX Pro-Serie (19)
19 deg: Ranger Reata 1850 RS
18 deg: Legend 19 Xcaliber
17 deg: Princecraft 185 Super-Pro
16.5 deg: Legend 18 Xtreme
16 deg: Princecraft 179 Pro Serie
16 deg: Princecraft 182 Sport Serie
14.5 deg: Crestliner 1850 Sportfish (17)
14 deg: Princecraft 186 Platinum SE
14 deg: Microcraft 1763 Aggressor
14 deg: Lund Rebel 1825
13.5 deg: Lund Impact 1775 SS
13 deg: Crestliner 1800 SuperHank (17)
12 deg: G3 Angler V175FS (13)
12 deg: G3 Angler V172F (13)
11 deg: Microcraft 1977 Aggressor EXP

Andre. Where are these measurements taken? Transom, middle......?

NMG
02-21-2011, 07:26 PM
I don't know, word of mouth seems incredibly subjective to me. Afterall, some people think all aluminum boats ride rough. Others would say that their hull cuts waves like a knife through butter.

When I bought both of last two boats, the makers were happy to explain the differences in dead rise and hull design between their models and how that would impact the ride. I don't think it's a bad thing to know. In fact, I would tend to think that a manufacturer would want to explain the differences so that the customer could understand the design characteristics and ensure that they find the boat that suits their needs.

I'm sure Lund would provide this info if contacted, I was just curious if the info was out there in the public domain.

Drummer Boy
02-22-2011, 07:51 AM
I think its smart,to know as much as possible about a purchase.You just can't always trust word of mouth because not many have the kind of experience with all makes of boats let alone all the models.

3M TA3
02-22-2011, 06:33 PM
I think its smart,to know as much as possible about a purchase.You just can't always trust word of mouth because not many have the kind of experience with all makes of boats let alone all the models.

I agree, but I can trust "Word of MOUTHS". If I read or hear hundreds of people claiming that their boat, a Lund, a Crestliner, a Alumacraft, a whatever, is absolutely the best boat they ever had and is a dream boat, just like hundreds here on Walleye Central do, I'm going to listen and listen good. These folks, hundreds of them, have already experienced what I haven't, and if I can glean a concensus of the performance of a particular boat, I can then whittle down my choices, go test ride them and decide for myself. I assure you, dead rise is furthest from my mind. In fact it was never there in the first place. If dead rise is what you need to make your decision, then so be it. Will a 17 foot Alumacraft with a dead rise of say 19 degrees perform better than one with 20 degrees? Can you answer that once you have your information. I doubt it. The engineers took care of that for you already. This is only my opinion and just like you know what....we all have one. Done

Miami Vice
02-22-2011, 08:41 PM
Deadrise is only measured in the back of the boat.
A deep V is usually 22-24 degrees
a modified deep V is usually 18-21 degrees
Anything less than 18 degrees is just a plain V.

A deep V is a gas hog and burns a lot of gas, but it will give the smoothest ride in rough weather.
When you are drifting, the deep V will rock back and forth a lot. To cut down on the rocking a 8 1/2 foot beam will help out.
Every one or two degrees difference in the deadrise makes a big difference in how the boat handles in rough weather.
My first glass boat had a 24 degree deadrise and in rough weather it rode like a tank.
My next glass boat only had a 20 degree deadrise, and it rode way worse in rough weather than the boat with 24 degrees.
My current tin boat only has a 10 degree deadrise, and all I can say is I pray every day that I can trade it in for a new tin boat with a 19 degree deadrise.
I believe that the cost of gas is only 10% of owning a boat. Therefore why not treat yourself to a smoother ride with a boat with a bigger deadrise, even though it will burn more gas.
Miami Vice

staylor
02-23-2011, 06:35 AM
I'm in full agreement with Miami Vice that there is a direct relation between ride and deadrise- with more deadrise giving a better ride. I've run everything from flat bottom race boats to 24 degree deadrise and have a bad back and knees from the flatbottoms and low deadrise hulls. I currently run a 17 Starcraft with 17 degrees- and its a lot smoother ride than my last 10 degree hull on an 18 ft boat, but not as smooth as the last glass boat I owned- 21 degrees on a 21 footer. I have noted that some- if not most of the Lunds are now using a form of pad vee hull, where there is a flat bottom section at the transom that's fairly narrow, transitioning to a vee. I've run this type of hull on bass boats, and they ride very well when the boat is up on the pad with the pad effectively lifting the hull out of the water. I believe that this type of pad-vee hull ends up riding better than an equal deadrise semi-vee, providing that you've got enough power on the rig to lift it out of the water on the pad. The pad also gives you a much more stable ride without the chine walking that sets in when a semi-vee/vee hull is running at high speed. My Starcraft is maxed with an Opti 150- and at precisely 57 mph the chine walk begins- requiring a lot of driver effort to control it. This would not happen with a pad vee. The other thing I've noticed is that in really rough water when the boat is barely on plane and taking a pounding the ride will vary with the vee at the bow where the keel line begins. This entry angle is whats taking most of the wave impact at slower speeds- and as with transom dead rise, a sharp vee entry angle at the bow rides better than a flatter bow hull form.
Just my 2 cents on an interesting topic....
Doug

Andre (wallyandre)
02-23-2011, 08:27 PM
Andre. Where are these measurements taken? Transom, middle......? http://www.walleyecentral.com/forums/images/buttons/quote.gif (http://www.walleyecentral.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1273675)

Transom