Could B&WB Magazine suck up anymore....

[LundBob]

Just got the new issue yesterday and saw on the front cover. V-6 4 Stroke shootout. Now i'm not one that will ever own one of those fine engines but it's still fun to read about them and we all have our favorite Yamaha or Honda.

Then you read the article and you know before you even get to the end what the last paragraph is going to say.

"Well in the end it will be up to the consumer to make the deciding vote of which is best for them."

QUIT INSULTING ME YOU MORONS!!! Take a stand!!! At least TRY to have SOME credability!!! Your magazine is a JOKE!!! Your so far in bed with these people that you fear for your advertising dollar lives. If you weren't the ONLY magazine that even remotely had some useful tech articles i would cancel in a minute.

OK Thanks for listening to my venting. I feel better.

[Tired of it]

Absolutely right on. They end all those "comparison" articles with that same sentence.

[NC]

How about the review of the Lund Angler? $19,800??????????????
I'm pretty sure that is $2000.00 on the high side. If they are going to review the boat, they could at least get accurate figures so those of us who don't know better, won't be discouraged by mis-information.

[LundBob]

I'm going to e-mail the editor a link to this thread. Maybe he will see our frustration. Only way to get changes made is complaining.

[Tom (mich)]

Couldn't agree more. Just once, I want them to say something like "I wouldn't ride in this boat for all the...." Certainly not every product they test can be superior, but you'd never know it from the reviews. Also, the emphasis on walleye rigs is decreasing with every edition. It remains a great technical resource for those with the ability to understand it, but it's clearly not a good source for someone wanting some objective and critical reviews of marine products.

[To answer you question....]

Yes, they could suck more...they could be you.


If you don't like it, don't read it.

[LundBob]

VERY intelligent response. Thank You for your contribution.

[again?]

Just keep yourself in the closet, no one cares about your little mind!!

[Eyez]

woooowweeee! a flame war on WC! Let's go grab a few 12 year old l337 h4x0r5 off IRC and we'll make it a party!


Anyway, I let my subscription run out, I got tired of learning nothing from their reviews. There was some good information, but I got sick of getting my issues a month or more late, or not at all, and I decided that it wasn't worth the money. I realize the situation that they're in, but I didn't like it, so I quit reading it.


Eyez

[OnTheOtherHand]

Guys,
Look at the money trail here. A lot of it comes from their advertisers. Until they get independent of that, we are not going to get articles that make the kinds of objective comments we need.

A good example of such an independent magazine is "Gun Test Magazine" which gets all its money from subscribers.

Until then we will have to content ourselves with picking up knowledge about the boat/motor industry from magazines like B&WB. I for one (I am admittedly a new subscriber so I have a lot to learn even though I have owned boats since 1994) did enjoy the June, 2002, issue. Here is what I picked up:

1.) The O2 sensor in the VMAX is an interesting but potentially fragile device that requires certain care and I can see why people are concerned about replacing them and how much that costs.

2.) The large 4-stroke Honda and Yamaha motors are not all that different in performance.

3.) The Lund Angler 1700 SS, which one of our fellow fisherman had questions about on this board this month, is a nice boat but is probably not the one I want.

4.) The FICHT "Bomb" motor is something that I DO want to look at.

5.) A "spun" prop means that the hard rubber connection between the prop and motor has been destroyed but can be fixed. Until I read that article, I knew that a prop could be "spun" but I did not know what that meant nor what caused it.


From the March issue (which I read at a Gander Mountain store while a buddy shopped for a new rod)I learned from their comparison of big 2-stroke vs 4-stroke motors and that maybe 4-strokes are not all that big an advantage in the final analysis.


It may not be the magazine we want, but I for one am glad I subscribed to it. I am in the market for a new boat and I will be able to use the background knowledge I am picking up.

So, grin and bear it guys. Or start your own magazine and I will subscribe to both of them.

[NC]

I think that is well put. It's just tough to always read about a 20 foot bass boat with a 225 on it which costs $42,000. I could not have been more pleased to see the 2001 Lund Angler SS in this months issue. It is definately a boat many of us do or would like to own, or at least something similiar in a competitors brand, and it was nice to read how dry the ride was and so on.
There was also a good point about their objectivity as well. I'm sure its tough to say Brand X isn't worth the money, but they could say they would choose Brand X over Y for these reasons. I don't know? I enjoy reading it, but I guess I was looking for more practical application.

[OnTheOtherHand]

NC,
Your point about the practical application is also well-made. I think most of the people that post on here do not own $42,000 bass boats, are not in the market for one, and don't really want to read about one.

Maybe the original poster ought to send your idea to the editors of B&WB. Let's see a comparison of the Lund Mr. Pike 17 to the Alumacraft Magnum 175 CS, both at max hp. The following month could be a comparison between the Crestliner FishHawk 1750 and the Starcraft of the same size.

Or they might do something similar to what the American Rifleman (NRA Mag) does with firearms:
Take one boat (from the above list of boats) each month, let each of 3 reporters fish out of it for a day and then rate the boat Poor, Good, Very Good as to each of the following features:
- Ride
- Dryness
- Handling
- Storage
- Fishability
- Adding Electronics
- Passenger Comfort
- Cost
and then let the reader decide what the overall rating is depending on which features the reader values most highly.

Just a thought.

[NC]

OnTheOtherHand,
I agree as well. I forgot to mention last months issue which listed all of the motor prices. That was awesome. Even though they may not have been 100% what you would pay at the dealer, it sure was nice to be able to say the 75HP Merc 4-stroke was only $500.00 less than the 90.
In my humble opinion, that issue/info. was worth a year's subscription because I for one hate calling a million different dealerships and trying to keep straight all of the specs and prices.
You know it is like everything else in life, if you can't take a stand for something then it will be very hard to gain respect from your peers (readers!).
I'm going to step down from my soap box now.

[FJH1]

Nice post, direct and to the point :-)

Best Regards,

FJH

[Bad Finger]

I have been a subscriber for several years. Good mag, I've learned a lot. You have good points, I agree.

I also agree with the "Backwash" letter to the editor on page 8. See letter from Duke Maulsby titled "Hot Topics to Consider". Couldn't say it better.

[targa2]

I can see what the first post is saying though. It's like the whole article is just a big ad.I like the way Boating Magazines' buyers guide evaluates a boat. They aren't unduly critical but if they don't like something they say it in plain english.If the fishbox is too small they will say so and give an example of a competitors boat that is better.In fact , they routinely compare aspects of competitors features in their evaluations. I think I will ask them if they have any plans to evaluate walleye boats.

[TomCat]

Neat idea. I would be interested in hearing their response if you do. If "yes", I intend to subscribe.

[Husky]

Being a longtime subscriber to B&WB and Trailer Boats (sister publications) I have vome to feel the same way as the original poster. Everything is wonderfull, not a mediocre product made for the boating market. Now both magazines carry the same feature articles. I will have to ditch one (or both).
Taking a stand on product reviews and losing advertiser revenue is certainly a problem with many current publications, and I agree the publishers may stand to lose much more when their readership declines because of it. Another post mentioned car magazines tell it like it is more often. I agree. We need to remember the auto magazines run standardized tests (acceleration, g-forces during cornering, breaking , etc) these can all be duplicated and are objective tests. Boat tests, on the other hand, tend to be subjective (other than speed and gas consumption). Saying one boat handles water well is subjective and depends on the conditions at the time of the test. this might lead the publishers into an area where they might be subject to slander or other legal damages caused by publishing their subjective position. I really don't like the reviews as they are at present, but have spent some time wondering why the mags might not want to stick their necks out. Maybe our litigous society is partially to blame.

[CJHughes]

Hey the article on the Tillers was very good , I thought that Ranger 620 was one neat boat . I could see myself spending all day going backwards .

[Rapaleye]

Because of many of the reasons you all mentioned here I let my subscription run out last September. If you can belive it I am still getting the magazine but on the address label in place of my old subscripton number it now says "complements of Minnkota". I am not sure why Minnkota feels it is important for me to get this magazine (I don't even own a minnkota) but I'll take it if it is free.
Anybody else getting it for free?

[Al]

I've seen them be negative in a few articles. ONe was on a custom made regionally available bass boat. They stated up front they requested a 225 efi stock and got one that had been hopped up, and not told about it.

I read the article more or less saying the v6 four strokes are a joke if you want any performance.

They knocked the heck out of a sprint one time too.

Other than that you may be right, but if you can read the numbers for performance, zero to thirty, fuel econ...you can read between the lines. There's a lot of good info if you know how to look for that stuff. The tune up and shade tree stuff is great. I've gotten a lot of help in those articles about fixing gelcoat, tune up type things....I guess I'm not all that pickey?

[bigfish1965]

I'm not sure about the 4 stroke...but the Merc/Mariner 75 and 90HP 2 stroke are the same motors with different carbs.

[wizdom]

OK, so let us look at the situation.
1. If a brand was trashed, would you be persuaded?
2. If a brand was endorsed, would that imply the magazine is "pro" brand X and con brand y?
3. Obviously, there are many fine products. If not, why wouldn't pro anglers buy just one brand?
4. Would individual anglers and writers say the same thing about "your" idea or ideal of a particular motor or boat?
5. Seems to me the reviews and articles are a point of departure and a point of information. It is similar to any one post on this board. Rarely do we anglers all agree about performance capabilities and-or usefulness.
6. The comparison to auto magazines is unfair, IMO. Why? Circulation nos. of BWB are not sufficient to justify very expensive testing criteria. Nevertheless, if you find BWB of less value than its price, don't read it. However, when shopping for any product, and especially boats, how often has the dealer been able and willing to let you test one hull with 4 different motors? How many are able to offer on-water tests? My experience is none. Consumers are merely told "xyz" and this is the "reputation" of the product. If one believes BWB is not a value, how would one rank the "value" of a dealer's profit on a sale, while being unable or unwilling to let consumers actually test products?

[P. Thomas]

Consider the magazine as a learning tool and ask yourself " did I learn from this article" and do I enjoy the mag. ??? Bass & Walleye Boat magazines position is no different than the pro fisherman that we hear. How often do you hear a pro critize sponsor furnished equipment?? Based on what is posted on these boards the pro's should have the same problems that the rest of us do. The mag and the pro's are sources of information for us and we have to judge what weight to give the information to make our decisions and wether the value and entertainment is worth the price. I suppose we could just read manufactures brouchers for information. Walleye Central posts have better information about flaws and function problems in fishing boating equi. than any magazine.

[LundBob]

WOW guys i never thought this would generate so many great responses. Obviously alot of you feel the same way i do and others have some good points also. I did email the B&WB editors and made them aware of this thread. Here is what i sent to them and i guess we'll see if it generates any kind of response. If i only get a email response back from them i will post it here.

After reading June 2002 issue i felt the need to express my disappointment in the reviews that appear in your magazine. I posted on the message board of the Walleye Central website and got a response far greater than i ever expected so i am sending you a link so you can look over what is said about the reviews that you write and possibly comment on what you see there.

The people that have responded are the avg people with avg incomes that are the majority of your target market. I hope what you see there will open your eyes to what the avg person sees when they read one of your reviews and maybe it will in a small way have some sort of influence on what your readership would like to see.

Here is the address of the thread. http://www.walleyecentral.com/dcf/generaldiscussion/18722.html

Sincerly

[HumorMan]

>Anybody else getting it for free?

You mean the magazine, or what???? lol.

[Targa2]

Pretty easy to knock the heck out of Sprint bassboats. Ever bang on the gunnels of one of them.My glove compartment is tougher than that.Saw a guy bring one to a dealer after a tourney on Erie.Holy stress cracks batman.Someone needs to take a potshot at them to hopefully make them aware that you can see a flashlight shined through the side of them.