View Full Version : Innocent question
dutchboy
04-23-2011, 09:05 AM
Don't bash me, I really don't know the answer to this.
All the tours at one time or another seem to have light fields in the individual events. They all offer a championship at the end of the year. Seems you need to accumulate points to make the championships. Why don't they REQUIRE all fishing the Pro side to fish every qualifying event? I don't understand how some guys can just dive in on their home water, finish high and still make the championship. Wouldn't requiring them to fish all 3-4-5 qualifiers insure fuller fields? Couldn't you offer bigger purses for the championship (as incentive) and lower the qualifier fee's (as incentive).
Maybe the first year or two might be hard to fill but I think once the tour proved they were sticking to their guns that the pro's would step up. On a personal side, I don't consider guy's who only fish one event on the pro side to be pro's. Wanna be called a pro I think they should step up and fish them all.
I'll be interested to hear the reasoning behind the present system.
Thanks.
S.Larson
04-23-2011, 10:03 AM
The only thought I have on that is if or when a local jumps in and finishes well enough to fish a Championship it may be enough to jump his or her interest up into fishing all of the events in the future,.....
Even with the light fields I think it usually takes more than the points from one tournament to qualify for a Championship,...
stacker2
04-23-2011, 10:34 AM
I dont know if anyone can fish one event, win it, and have enough points to qualify for the championship in any circuit.
rnj express
04-23-2011, 11:29 AM
You have to qualify for the FLW championship and it would be difficult to do so without fishing all events. With the AIM championship as long as you fish one event you can buy your way in.
stacker2
04-23-2011, 11:58 AM
You have to qualify for the FLW championship and it would be difficult to do so without fishing all events. With the AIM championship as long as you fish one event you can buy your way in.
Terry, he did say accumulate points to get to the championship so I assumed he meant the circuits that have a points race. If you will remember, the FLW which started as the RCL had a buy in championship as well.
rnj express
04-23-2011, 02:43 PM
Yep,
My statement was to help Dutchboy understand how someone fishing 1 event could still make a championship. You can pretty much count on not making the FLW championship with only fishing 1 event even if you win it.
scott p. allen
04-23-2011, 09:08 PM
The FLW and MWC have a championship, that an invite is given to the top in the points for the year. The championship is a no entry fee tournament that pays back to all the anglers. The AIM requires you to fish one tournament and the entry fee and payback is the same as any of the regular tournaments.
rabbit
04-23-2011, 10:13 PM
Here's my take on someone who is fishing as a Pro to reply to part of your question... This is only my take and not looking to get bashed either. I have fished a bunch of tournaments ,the circuits ,or, just cherry pick single tournies, Local, State, FLW and the last PWT. I only cherry pick tournaments now because the costs are phenomenal! I would never consider myself a PRO, only a guy who loves to fish by myself or with anyone who wants to go. Here's my input to classify as a PRO. You need to have Sponsors and keep them happy, you need public rapport, being a PRO is a business. Some have alot of money and fish the whole circuits, don't show well but merely have fun at what they are doing these are Pros too. To cherry pick one tournie to make a championship does not make one a Pro.
Some of the State level tournaments will let you in a Championship by fishing only one tournie. However, to only fish one tournament with the big boys and expect to make a Championship is a crap shoot. I know alot of those guys and they can spank you on your home waters in a minute!LOL Ask me how I know that LOL! Anyhow, long story short, being a Pro is a very brutal business and extremely expensive. I've always wanted to do a documentary of behind the scenes tournie fishing ie. working your business end of it, fixing boats in the dark to make next days blast off, Commaraderie etc... I don't think people realize how tuff it is to fish for a living... Look at pro baseball, hockey, football etc... One game doesn't make you a PRO....Only my take, Paul Schmidt
northshoreangler
04-25-2011, 03:19 PM
good luck trying to jump in with this caliber of angling...
many have tried and few have succeeded. i can think of some very good anglers that thought they were going to "jump in" and they got their lunch handed to them.
:ooo:
FLWer
04-25-2011, 06:21 PM
good luck trying to jump in with this caliber of angling...
many have tried and few have succeeded. i can think of some very good anglers that thought they were going to "jump in" and they got their lunch handed to them.
:ooo:
A few have indeed succeeded, some quite well. The same as in any type of serious competition. Only the best will survive. For those that don't, Juls has a good saying she usually posts with her replies. I think it was from Teddy Roosevelt. There is no dishonor in losing. There can be in wanting to, but never trying though.
How about a little help here Juls? Can you post Teddy's words??
A few have indeed succeeded, some quite well. The same as in any type of serious competition. Only the best will survive. For those that don't, Juls has a good saying she usually posts with her replies. I think it was from Teddy Roosevelt. There is no dishonor in losing. There can be in wanting to, but never trying though.
How about a little help here Juls? Can you post Teddy's words??
It should post in my signature...:)
Juls
Again, I speak only for myself. I "jumped" into competitive walleye angling at the age of 45. I wish I would have done it sooner. Through the years I fished and watched and learned how to fish and use different methods required to catch more and bigger fish. I new the cost would be expensive but with the support of my wife and a little from friends I decided I wasnt getting any younger.
The reason I am stating this is because you touched on "light" fields and "cherry picking" certain turnaments. I think most "one turnament" anglers are not confident enough to step up and challenge themselves. I feel that if they did they would find out that they are actually pretty good at fishing, and not just on their own body of water:rockit:. If more anglers were more confident then I think there would be better fields, but the confidence comes from fishing outside your body of water or your "comfort zone." I hope more would try it, they might be supprised how good they actually are ( and it would cut down on the "arm chair" critics that are convinced they are better than all the anglers fishing as pros;))
As far as accumulating enough points in one turnament to "go all the way?" , probably won't happen, best that will happen is you go home after cashing the check and wait for January to try and figure out what one turnament on the schedule you might have the best chance at and then sign up again, but this might bite you in the butt soon because sooner or later the fields WILL be full again and your chances of getting to fish that "cake walk" tournament on your body of water will be over because you didn't "play" the year prior.
Lastly, I think theres a thing called "respect" that alot of anglers would like to have from the other pros, fans, media and sponsors. This may be hard to do fishing "one" turnament a year.:lovit:
Buy In
04-29-2011, 02:16 AM
Stacker,
You still had to qualify for it (FLW championship). the first year they had a championship only with ...something like 250 entries... but vying for a win of $400,ooo.
After that year I believe there was one more year of pay but qualify based on criteia set by FLW and again BIG MONEY . I bet if we could have a purse like that you's have everyone fishing one circuit... guaranteed!!!
stacker2
04-29-2011, 10:00 AM
I believe the only criteria they had them first 2 years was you had to have fished one event. But that was a while ago and exacts fade.
I will agree, if we could get either one of the circuits back to the previous payout levels we could have a stack of the best fisherman lining up to get in. Then we could start this process all over again. Maybe this time greed of promoters wont styme it.
You know what I miss? The elite series started by the PWT. I think that would have handed so much credibility to the sport by having to actually qualify to fish a circuit. It gave up and comers something to aim at, and that has been a proven tactic to bring more players into the pro-am style events. There was whining from some who thought they should get in. All they had to do was wait a year after the legends got there due right to perform in the first year ever of such a event. But the whining killed it.
Vikings Fan
04-30-2011, 09:33 AM
I believe the only criteria they had them first 2 years was you had to have fished one event. But that was a while ago and exacts fade.
I will agree, if we could get either one of the circuits back to the previous payout levels we could have a stack of the best fisherman lining up to get in. Then we could start this process all over again. Maybe this time greed of promoters wont styme it.
You know what I miss? The elite series started by the PWT. I think that would have handed so much credibility to the sport by having to actually qualify to fish a circuit. It gave up and comers something to aim at, and that has been a proven tactic to bring more players into the pro-am style events. There was whining from some who thought they should get in. All they had to do was wait a year after the legends got there due right to perform in the first year ever of such a event. But the whining killed it.
Nothing personal but I do have to take exception to some of the comments above.
In my opinion, "whining" did not kill the PWT Super Pro series. The PWT's rejection of veteran anglers doomed it from the start. At the time the Super Pro series started I believe we initially figured over 20 veteran PWT anglers switched circuits due to being denied entry into the Super Pro series. About the only thing that initial rejection did was help to fill the ranks of the FLW Walleye Tour. A Pros reduced value to sponsors of only being to offer exposure in the PWT Regional series hurt many veteran anglers who had been rejected from Super Pro Competition. Not to mention the smaller payouts those rejected had to settle for in the regional series. Telling individuals who had loyally supported the the PWT they are not good enough is no way to maintain or increase ANY business's customer base. It was a horrible marketing move..
"Wait a year after the legends after legends got there due to perform"? Sadly that is not what happened. Veteran anglers who had supported the PWT for years and then were bumped out by a one year Rookie? As in the case of one veteran angler who was declined with TWO PWT wins, multiple top 10 finishes and Championships fished? Other very competitive veteran PWT anglers who come to mind were passed over for less experienced anglers. Politics played heavily in who got in and who was left out. The PWT played their favorites hard. Those opinions were voiced by many at the time and in the end contributed substantially to the PWT's demise.
In my opinion "Whining" did not kill the PWT. Mismanagement and the catastrophic decision to go forward with the Super Pro Series the way they did. That was the defining moment which killed the PWT. In the end it also hurt many of us veteran anglers.
stacker2
04-30-2011, 10:07 AM
Nothing personal but I do have to take exception to some of the comments above.
In my opinion, "whining" did not kill the PWT Super Pro series. The PWT's rejection of veteran anglers doomed it from the start. At the time the Super Pro series started I believe we initially figured over 20 veteran PWT anglers switched circuits due to being denied entry into the Super Pro series. About the only thing that initial rejection did was help to fill the ranks of the FLW Walleye Tour. A Pros reduced value to sponsors of only being to offer exposure in the PWT Regional series hurt many veteran anglers who had been rejected from Super Pro Competition. Not to mention the smaller payouts those rejected had to settle for in the regional series. Telling individuals who had loyally supported the the PWT they are not good enough is no way to maintain or increase ANY business's customer base. It was a horrible marketing move..
"Wait a year after the legends after legends got there due to perform"? Sadly that is not what happened. Veteran anglers who had supported the PWT for years and then were bumped out by a one year Rookie? As in the case of one veteran angler who was declined with TWO PWT wins, multiple top 10 finishes and Championships fished? Other very competitive veteran PWT anglers who come to mind were passed over for less experienced anglers. Politics played heavily in who got in and who was left out. The PWT played their favorites hard. Those opinions were voiced by many at the time and in the end contributed substantially to the PWT's demise.
In my opinion "Whining" did not kill the PWT. Mismanagement and the catastrophic decision to go forward with the Super Pro Series the way they did. That was the defining moment which killed the PWT. In the end it also hurt many of us veteran anglers.
As with anything there is always 2 sides to the story. It never seems that both sides will ever agree, HOWEVER, your take on the demise of the PWT maybe a bit foggier than mine, or at least my belief.
I start by asking you this. If you worked for company "A" and decided that you would leave and go work for company "B", and then company A" expanded and hired new bosses from within, you were not asked to return for the expansion, would that be normal business practice? Should company "A" have kissed your butt and asked you to return after you left to work for others in the same market?
You know the answers to your whining. If you have anything to say, just mention Chase Parsons. He got in and candle hated it. The bottom line is chase beat him regularly and he was the "HOT UP AND COMING STCK". I take nothing away from Johnny, he is a favorite, but SOMEONE WAS NOT GETTING IN.
Some of you guys like a 2 way street. You liked the idea of being a independant business man, but wanted safety of a regular paycheck added to the deal.
Greed killed the PWT and dam near did in the FLW as well. They are run as a business. Make no money, there is no business.
Vikings Fan
04-30-2011, 10:54 AM
As with anything there is always 2 sides to the story. It never seems that both sides will ever agree, HOWEVER, your take on the demise of the PWT maybe a bit foggier than mine, or at least my belief.
I start by asking you this. If you worked for company "A" and decided that you would leave and go work for company "B", and then company A" expanded and hired new bosses from within, you were not asked to return for the expansion, would that be normal business practice? Should company "A" have kissed your butt and asked you to return after you left to work for others in the same market?
You know the answers to your whining. If you have anything to say, just mention Chase Parsons. He got in and candle hated it. The bottom line is chase beat him regularly and he was the "HOT UP AND COMING STCK". I take nothing away from Johnny, he is a favorite, but SOMEONE WAS NOT GETTING IN.
Some of you guys like a 2 way street. You liked the idea of being a independent business man, but wanted safety of a regular paycheck added to the deal.
Greed killed the PWT and dam near did in the FLW as well. They are run as a business. Make no money, there is no business.
Wow! Is about all I can say to the above. I never mentioned anyone. Certainly not the "Johnny Candle" you refer to and slam. That is an incorrect and damaging assumption on your part. Johnny Candle was definitely NOT one of the veteran anglers that I referenced in my reply. Candle IS however now that you mention him, another one who had the merit and the experience to back it up in my opinion. You sir, do Mr. Candle a disservice with your comments.
Regarding the reasons for the demise of PWT Super Pro series? As they say, the proof is in the pudding. The end result speaks for itself. In this case I believe it has.
Sorry if you feel differently.
stacker2
04-30-2011, 01:00 PM
Wow! Is about all I can say to the above. I never mentioned anyone. Certainly not the "Johnny Candle" you refer to and slam. That is an incorrect and damaging assumption on your part. Johnny Candle was definitely NOT one of the veteran anglers that I referenced in my reply. Candle IS however now that you mention him, another one who had the merit and the experience to back it up in my opinion. You sir, do Mr. Candle a disservice with your comments.
Regarding the reasons for the demise of PWT Super Pro series? As they say, the proof is in the pudding. The end result speaks for itself. In this case I believe it has.
Sorry if you feel differently.
everyone is entitled to there opinion. right or wrong? Its in the yes of the beholder.
P.S. A dis-service to someone is when you actually owe them something and you wronged them. When you are in the publics eye, you better have thick skin, not this paper hearted "OMG i cannot believe you just said that". If you would like to further discuss this I would encourage you to speak the names and what happened instead of standing behind the curtain and pretending to know what you speak of. I also do not care who you are, as long as what you say is spelled out and the truth. Do not make others guess what you mean.
dutchboy
04-30-2011, 02:08 PM
:offtopic::offtopic:
Off Topic
Dutchboy, You couldn't have said it better, time to start a new thread to continue this .................................................. ....
Don't bash me, I really don't know the answer to this.
All the tours at one time or another seem to have light fields in the individual events. They all offer a championship at the end of the year. Seems you need to accumulate points to make the championships. Why don't they REQUIRE all fishing the Pro side to fish every qualifying event? I don't understand how some guys can just dive in on their home water, finish high and still make the championship. Wouldn't requiring them to fish all 3-4-5 qualifiers insure fuller fields? Couldn't you offer bigger purses for the championship (as incentive) and lower the qualifier fee's (as incentive).
Maybe the first year or two might be hard to fill but I think once the tour proved they were sticking to their guns that the pro's would step up. On a personal side, I don't consider guy's who only fish one event on the pro side to be pro's. Wanna be called a pro I think they should step up and fish them all.
I'll be interested to hear the reasoning behind the present system.
Thanks.
This is the original question.