Truth and Sponsorship

[FLW FAN]

A little disappointed , the Pro that won FLW Oconto 2011 said in interviews that I seen and read, he was using Tommy Harris Blades. So I just watched the event on Verses to learn which ones were working and I didn't see any of T Harris blades on those rods.
I guess he should have read :
Twenty Questions With "Legendary Angler" Keith Kavajecz by Julia (Juls) Davis :

Juls: If you could only give ONE piece of advice to a new angler who wanted to start fishing tournaments professionally, what would that be?

Keith: Keep your credibility - it is the one key asset that only you can take away from yourself. Give accurate descriptions of how you caught fish, so you can help other catch more fish. Don't make up fish tales - especially in the internet age - you will get called out. It's alright to say you caught tournament winning fish on a "crankbait" it is not alright to substitute in a sponsored lure that was not used. Don't try to convince people to spend their money on equipment that you don't believe in and use on a regular basis. Pick sponsors that have lures that you like to use, or sponsors that are willing to help you develop products to your specifications. Credibility - it is everything.

[JJ Scully]

I was also disappointed that there was little said of what each pro was using. Past shows that I can remember had a segment at the end where the winner talked about what he was doing and where. I can't speak for what the winning combo was, but I did fish as a co and spent the week before prefishing with a pro. I can tell you that the Tommy Harris blades were very productive. In terms of numbers of fish 2 Harris blade patterns accounted for about half of the fish prefishing. But the biggest fish we caught came on the copper blue perch from Big Eye Custom Lures.

[Turn E Man]

Just watched it on the DVR, and didn't see the winner use a single Tommy Harris blade. I did see that on a few fish he caught, he was using what looked like BPS hatchet blades.

[Chad]

I agree but it is possible that you dont know the whole truth. Just say'n it is easy to throw stones.

Maybe they were bite'n the Tommy Harris blades in practice and on day one and then on the other? the TV shows generally only show day 3 if I recall.

Only one person really knows!

[FLW FAN]

I agree but it is possible that you dont know the whole truth. Just say'n it is easy to throw stones.

Maybe they were bite'n the Tommy Harris blades in practice and on day one and then on the other? the TV shows generally only show day 3 if I recall.

Only one person really knows!

Ya... That might be if the interviews wern't after day 2, and some of the footage showed the rods coming out of the rod locker on the morning of day 3.

[Who cares]

Do you really think that who painted the blade matters one bit? If it's a genaric #5 firetiger versus a TH #5 firetiger with a little spider web painted on it do you really think the fish cares? Especially considering that the fish sees the back of the blade and not the front of the blade.

I'm not trying to pick on TH as his blades look neat but I don't think for a second that they will catch anymore fish than other blades as long as the weight and size of the blades are the same, and I highly doubt that TH actually makes the blades.

[jigfan]

The year Jason Przekurat won the pool 4 event he was fishing Katrina's cut. He was deadsticking willow cats and pitching jigs with a piece of BfishN paddle tail on it and a jumbo leech. I watched the show on FLW Outdoors. A few weeks later he is doing a promo that he was fishing Gulp minnows . Well if he was he was not fishing them when the cameras were rolling. I guess Berkley must pay more than BfishN. I have lost a lot of respect for these pros that that make false claims. I know the sponsors money is what these guys live on , but I do not appreciate being lied to.:(

[Gary Korsgaden]

FLW fan I understand exactly where you are coming from. Sponsorship dollars drives alot of what we hear about fishing methods whether it is post tournament or magazine articles. I can recall doing article a number of years ago for a major magazine in which I actually caught the fish on a different jig then what the magazine had sponsorship dollars for. I was called by the editor telling they were going to replace the XYZ jig I had mentioned for one they were getting sponsorship dollars for. To quote the editor "to keep our sponsors happy we need to change the jig to this_________________-" It is the reason today's anglers don't always believe what they hear or read. I also feel it is part of why magazine articles aren't read (besides the internet] like they once were. The excuse is a jig is a jig or a crankbait is a crankbait so it is ok to replace the name or brand with another. Anglers/readers have caught onto it. I guess I have learned the hard way that money is not worth giving up ones honesty or integrity. One has to question, I guess do these pro's really care about sharing their information with us amateur anglers except in the instance they can pad their pocket book. If they really cared about making the sport bettef for all wouldn't you think one would see them sharing tips and tricks more on sites like WC. Sorry to be so frank, the question is worth asking.

[SENORGOOGLE]

The tackle companies are in it to catch you not the fish. And they will pay big money for these guys to lie to you.A good salesman can sell ice to an eskimo. Imagine what a desperate fisherman will buy; a $60,000 dollar boat , a $300 rod.It is not what brands you have, it is your knowledge and for most of these tourney pros, its they're binoculars.

[FLW FAN]

Well my disappointment stems from this story appeared to be a good things happen to good people, small town every day Joe makes good. But my disappointment in humanity will subside. Unfortunately for this guy he lost his credibility and along with tarnishing the story.

[Fishy69]

Actually Tommy Harris does make his own blades. He doesnt purchase the bulk blades like everyone else.

[Reggie r]

Why don't you go test the product yourself and see if they work instead of waiting for others to test and tell you how where and what to do? Then you don't have to listen to what other say or write...

[gonecribbin]

I heard Tommy Skarlis say once "The funny thing about fishermen is that even when you tell the truth noone believes ya"...


Its a "catch 22" for the pros... Tell the truth on "what and where" you caught em and someones going to be mad at you... Lie about it and someone is mad... :smash:

Its only fishin' boys... FISH ON!!!

[S.Larson]

Was that one of "Modogs" runnin racks in the winners boat??

[GiddyGills]

That type of behavior runs amuck within the industry. The sponsorship dollars are what run the show and most pros are afraid to loose whatever they receive, which sets integrity on the sideline in many cases. This demeanor bleeds into bolstered resumes and bragging rights also, which slowly embeds into fishing chronicles…look hard enough and you can find articles with authoring credit to sportsmen who did not have a hand in writing it.

[K Gonefishin]

Do you really think that who painted the blade matters one bit? If it's a genaric #5 firetiger versus a TH #5 firetiger with a little spider web painted on it do you really think the fish cares? Especially considering that the fish sees the back of the blade and not the front of the blade.

I'm not trying to pick on TH as his blades look neat but I don't think for a second that they will catch anymore fish than other blades as long as the weight and size of the blades are the same, and I highly doubt that TH actually makes the blades.

Truth^^^^^^^ Who cares what blade it was presentation is #1, speed, direction of troll,bead color, duplication, and being on the right fish is more important, blade is probably 4th or 5th in the trolling equation. You have to be doing the above right in order for them to want that blade in the first place if your not doesn't matter what you put out they won't eat it anyways.

You guys look WAY to far into this stuff.

[fish eater]

Actually Tommy Harris does make his own blades. He doesnt purchase the bulk blades like everyone else.


I doubt Tommy Harris stamps out his own blades.....

[Pezman38]

Was that one of "Modogs" runnin racks in the winners boat??

It sure looked like it to me!

[Modog]

Was that one of "Modogs" runnin racks in the winners boat??

Yes it was. Steve has the very first one I did for the new model 621's.

[S.Larson]

Yes it was. Steve has the very first one I did for the new model 621's.


I had to look a couple of times to catch it,...It looked like it came from the factory!!!,..

Nice work,...

[Fishy69]

FISH EATER. If you had a clue and did alittle research on google of Tommy Harris you would learn that he owns his own stamping company in Canada. The blades start tree then either of to a player or powder painter. Then harris does the rest. So quit being a bashed. That is why most pros left this site years ago.

[680 AMERICAN DREAM]

Hey Fishy.... Then where do most pros go? Just curious.......

[Juls]

Hey Fishy.... Then where do most pros go? Just curious.......

LOL........here. Don't let him fool you. They all watch WC, they just don't like to post. You need a thick skin for that around here, when you're in that line of work. You guys can be brutal at times. :p

Juls

[No Name This Time]

LOL........here. Don't let him fool you. They all watch WC, they just don't like to post. You need a thick skin for that around here, when you're in that line of work. You guys can be brutal at times. :p

Juls

Which is why the cloak of relative anonymity is needed here on W/C. Very few professionals would combine their personal opinions with their buisness image in any occupation..

[AllenW]

I tend to believe nothing out of a sponsored Pro's mouth when all they advise is their sponsors product, especially when it changes as they are sponsored by another product.

I agree it'd be suicide for them to recommend someone else's product, so I tend to listen to how they fished versus with what name brand product they used.

So imho is there truth with sponsored Pro's?
Yes, to a point.

Al

[Robert M]

Honestly.......Does this really surprise anybody? Fisherman are some of the best liars out there.

[Honesty]

There is a huge difference between telling a fable and being deceptive.

[Gary Korsgaden]

One high profile "professional angler" does it this way. For example: I caught my fish using deep running crankbaits, ones with alot of noise and brighly colored, tipped witha piece of crawler. I happen to like the XYZ crankbaits but there are a number of other crankbaits that can do equally as well, as long as they have bright colors, make noise and can run at 40'. What I like here is sharing the method, the type of bait and brand reccomendation not restricted to the one they sponsor. I find it more believeable. What do you think.

[Fish Eater]

One high profile "professional angler" does it this way. For example: I caught my fish using deep running crankbaits, ones with alot of noise and brighly colored, tipped witha piece of crawler. I happen to like the XYZ crankbaits but there are a number of other crankbaits that can do equally as well, as long as they have bright colors, make noise and can run at 40'. What I like here is sharing the method, the type of bait and brand reccomendation not restricted to the one they sponsor. I find it more believeable. What do you think.

Agreed...

[AllenW]

One high profile "professional angler" does it this way. For example: I caught my fish using deep running crankbaits, ones with alot of noise and brighly colored, tipped witha piece of crawler. I happen to like the XYZ crankbaits but there are a number of other crankbaits that can do equally as well, as long as they have bright colors, make noise and can run at 40'. What I like here is sharing the method, the type of bait and brand reccomendation not restricted to the one they sponsor. I find it more believeable. What do you think.

Yup, I expect pros to push their products, I don't expect them to have caught a fish on one bait and say they used another.

Worded like what you posted Gary would work fine imho

al

[used to log in]

I'm never for lying, on stage or in print.

On the other hand, I'm also not for giving some company a bunch of free publicity, especially if they don't sponsor anglers or the sport in general at a minimum. Also understand that if you are sponsored by a company, that doesn't mean unless it's an exclusive contract, you can't fish with what you want given an angler is trying to win.

It's also common for let's say 15 fish in a tourney to have 5 caught on x, 5 on y, and 5 on z.

The public greatly underestimates how much influence a pro and particularly a novel tournament win has on tackle sales. Often entire lures, or colors of a particular lure get sold out within weeks in an area or online.

It's not the pro's fault that tackle manufacturers don't invest in anglers. And it's not the responsibility of anglers to promote products they have no affiliation with.

I'd also contend Pro's way more often than not do just that - share techniques and lures they do not have affiliations with.

And another tip, I wouldn't assume an angler is using a lure or blade because you saw it on a rod in his or her boat. There is a thing called deception....

[TAH]

I'm not the best angler out there so i need to save some "secrets". problem is that alot of "anglers" watching the tournaments want exact info, where did you catch them, what color, how deep and so on. I agree that the pro's have to be a little "general" in their discription of tactics so that they can save a spot for another time. You have to remember, alot of weekend anglers take all their fish home no matter what size they are. If we have another tournament comming up soon on that body of water and we did good in that spot "last week", why would I give out the details. Its hard enough to locate spots to fish away from everyone.:banghead:

What I don't agree on is outright lieing about products. If you don't believe in a product how can you endorse it?

One example is a "pro" said his batteries lasted all day trolling cranks at 2- 2.5 mph I have the same batteries and I do like them but to say that statement is false and misleading. The batteries are great, in their category, but they WILL NOT LAST ALL DAY unless your day is about 5 hrs. and the wind is howling at your backside.

I will not lie about a product and I think I have been quite frank this year with my sponsors products.

Non of the sponsors products that I have are useless, some do however have their own place in the fishing world, and are not needed by everyone.

I have been fishing the last 2 years on "my own dime". I do not need the sponsors but If I like a product and believe in it TOTALLY then I will try to get on board with them.

One thing everyone can hold me to is this "I will not keep a sponsor if the product does not work and I do not actually use it" PERIOD!

If more pros used only products that worked then maybe the designers would work a little harder at building better quality products, not ones that just look neat.

[fish-n-hunt]

I'm not the best angler out there so i need to save some "secrets". problem is that alot of "anglers" watching the tournaments want exact info, where did you catch them, what color, how deep and so on. I agree that the pro's have to be a little "general" in their discription of tactics so that they can save a spot for another time. You have to remember, alot of weekend anglers take all their fish home no matter what size they are. If we have another tournament comming up soon on that body of water and we did good in that spot "last week", why would I give out the details. Its hard enough to locate spots to fish away from everyone.:banghead:

What I don't agree on is outright lieing about products. If you don't believe in a product how can you endorse it?

One example is a "pro" said his batteries lasted all day trolling cranks at 2- 2.5 mph I have the same batteries and I do like them but to say that statement is false and misleading. The batteries are great, in their category, but they WILL NOT LAST ALL DAY unless your day is about 5 hrs. and the wind is howling at your backside.

I will not lie about a product and I think I have been quite frank this year with my sponsors products.

Non of the sponsors products that I have are useless, some do however have their own place in the fishing world, and are not needed by everyone.

I have been fishing the last 2 years on "my own dime". I do not need the sponsors but If I like a product and believe in it TOTALLY then I will try to get on board with them.

One thing everyone can hold me to is this "I will not keep a sponsor if the product does not work and I do not actually use it" PERIOD!

If more pros used only products that worked then maybe the designers would work a little harder at building better quality products, not ones that just look neat.



Extremely respectable! Perhaps others could follow your example.

[jwhite58502]

:popc1:

[ldj002]

Ditto :smokin: on that J White.

LDJ

[The Unknown Pro]

I always had a saying Don't ask me and I won't have to lie to you

[truth of it]

Heres the scope I know lots of guys who BS so much its not even funny. There are Jigs spoons cranks rigs you name it that out produce alot of others the boys keep them secret. So they can win. I know cause I have fished with several big name boys.. Get in the boats and you will see. they tell fibs. to make money. I watched a tournament years back seen the lures used which was a slow death spin off. At the awards That i saw the guy said something totally different. LOL..I was informed they Paid for the Lie...NICE>

[A Veteran Pro]

"Don't ask me about my business and I won't tell you no lies!" Lynnard Skinner.

Which is why some of us are so close lipped. Those who sing like tweety birds, seldom repeat.

[orchard frank]

Whats next? Those darn pros changing the lures on their rods before they come within sight of others? I just hope that the NASCAR guys aren't so shifty, because I always use the products painted all over the sides of their cars to make my '94 RoadMaster Estate Wagon run better, and so far it's working!

[FISH A HOLIC]

Whats next? Those darn pros changing the lures on their rods before they come within sight of others? I just hope that the NASCAR guys aren't so shifty, because I always use the products painted all over the sides of their cars to make my '94 RoadMaster Estate Wagon run better, and so far it's working!
what does your wife think about the viagra car LOL.

[Burr]

what does your wife think about the viagra car LOL.

Well, he's driving a Roadmaster Estate Wagon, doesn't that pretty much answer your question?

[Main Topic]

Don't lose sight of the main topic here. When you are a pro or an average tournament fisherman like myself who is sponsored and you have a cameraman in your boat fishing a broadcasted event, don't be foolish enough to be caught on film saying you used a certain product when on camera you weren't even close to using that product. Credibility ruined in this business really hurts. These individuals get called out eventually and it will ruin their careers. It's a crying shame what some will do for little or no money!

[bbbbbbbb]

[QUOTE=Main Topic; It's a crying shame what some will do for little or no money![/QUOTE]

Or several dozen blades and a shared half hour infomercial on a Milwaukee area cable channel promoting the sponsor and his or her guide service.

KK said it all with "Credibility - it is everything."

[bbbbbbbb]

I notice the home page of Tommy Harris Blades is perpetuating the false claim of the prostaffer, curious if Tommy knows the truth or not or cares ?

[perchjerker]

I notice the home page of Tommy Harris Blades is perpetuating the false claim of the prostaffer, curious if Tommy knows the truth or not or cares ?

I was just on his site, I do use and like his blades.

What exactly are you talking about???

[fishthrills]

After watching my DVD of the flw coverage from Green Bay many times the walleyes I saw Mr. Paulson catch were on gold hatchets it’s tough to tell who's from the back side of a blade thou? Because of this thread we checked out and I like the looks of Tommy Harris's Blades. I’ll be buying a bunch soon. I see one of the many blade products he does paint indeed are hatchets with the same shape as those on my tape and those in question so I do not understand what the fuss is about?

[realist]

I’ll be buying a bunch soon.

Good luck with that program .

[neutral party]

I am a neutral party and can tell you I have never even met Steve Paulson. I just want the creator of this post to keep one thing in mind. The FLW tv show is only so long and they really only show a few minutes of Steve Paulson fishing. He fished 3 full days to get that win. If he caught his fish on those blades for 16-20 hours of his fishing time but that wasn't the blade that was captured on film on day three it doesn't mean much. To win at this level you have ot be willing to change as the fish change. He may or may have not used a variety of blades with the TH blades being the most productive. Either way jsut saying maybe were looking at this a little too close.

[brad d]

I was also disappointed that there was little said of what each pro was using. Past shows that I can remember had a segment at the end where the winner talked about what he was doing and where. I can't speak for what the winning combo was, but I did fish as a co and spent the week before prefishing with a pro. I can tell you that the Tommy Harris blades were very productive. In terms of numbers of fish 2 Harris blade patterns accounted for about half of the fish prefishing. But the biggest fish we caught came on the copper blue perch from Big Eye Custom Lures.

JJ - don't give out all the secrets!
And by the way, any pro was lucky to have you as a co!
Hopefully see you in 2012.

Brad

[Chet2142]

I was also disappointed that there was little said of what each pro was using. Past shows that I can remember had a segment at the end where the winner talked about what he was doing and where. I can't speak for what the winning combo was, but I did fish as a co and spent the week before prefishing with a pro. I can tell you that the Tommy Harris blades were very productive. In terms of numbers of fish 2 Harris blade patterns accounted for about half of the fish prefishing. But the biggest fish we caught came on the copper blue perch from Big Eye Custom Lures.

Big Eye Custom Lures make amazing blades and produced a big number of large fish this year for us..

[Wyn]

I would hate to call into question a guys character/intergrity and be wrong. Maybe TH made some custom blades just for Steve, maybe they didn't show up on the show but he did catch some nice fish on them over the course of 3 days, maybe he switched over to different blades at the end of day 3 when the conditions/bite changed, maybe you aren't as familiar with the TH line as you thought, maybe.......... To call a guy out over a total of about 2 minutes airtime in a 3 day tournament seems......well you better be right. http://www.flickr.com/photos/68504922@N03/6232399283/

I link is just one photo off the TH website. I only caught the show on the computer (definition was not great) but is it out of the question that blades weren't from Tommy Harris?

[bbbbbbbbb]

maybe you aren't as familiar with the TH line as you thought, maybe..........
Maybe your not. Pic shows one of the 2 hatchets TH paints, #7 the other being #5 both are cut 180 degrees different rotation then the #6 in the video.

[Wyn]

Maybe your not. Pic shows one of the 2 hatchets TH paints, #7 the other being #5 both are cut 180 degrees different rotation then the #6 in the video.

I think you missed the point. I will be the first to admit I am not a TH expert. I didn't even know he made/painted a hatchet at all (that's why I posted the pic....and I know there is at least one other person in the world that didn't know he painted hatchets because he told me "if its a hatchet the guys a fraud"). The scenarios were just off the top of my head and were just to raise a bit of caution in rushing to judgement about the individuals character over a very small portion of presented "evidence" over the course of a long tournament.

BTW - I don't know Steve or Tommy

[bigb027]

This reminds me of how great the Tracker pros said the tundras were....... :stick:

First hand experience is always best IMO

[fish-n-hunt]

:duel:

[bbbbbbbbb]

With this unscrupulous character representing TH is it any wonder why Harris sponsorship of MWS isn't being well received ?!?!