View Full Version : Gibson Guitar Raid
Gibson Guitars
09-02-2011, 10:04 PM
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904787404576530520471223268.html
Leinie
09-03-2011, 12:06 PM
Innocent until proven guilty- What a concept !
with all the problems that need attention and the conomy the way it is, lets put another buisness out of buisness.
One more example of environmentalists gone wild. When they have a sympathetic political party behind them they do a lot of bad things.
iMac Guy
09-03-2011, 12:57 PM
The environmentalists constituency that wants to lay the hammer down, also play and use most of the guitars, they are one in the same. Looks as they are cutting their own throats.
rbsangler
09-03-2011, 01:18 PM
From a reliable source. The wood in question in this story is not in it's self illegal to import. However, it is illegal to import this Indian wood if it has not been finished by Indian workers. This is simply enforcement of the Federal act mentioned in the article, (an act that essentially makes it a Federal offense to break the trade laws of other trading countries as well as ours). In this case India has a law prohibiting the exportation of UNFINISHED Ebony wood. I think that this ammounts to harrassment by the Justice department and has yet to be proven( the burden of proof lies with Eric Holder's Federal Agency) Gibson is a fairly small, Non-union company that will have difficulty amassing the resources for a defense fund. It seems like the Feds , in this case, have decided to punish(through harassment) a good iconic American company, while simultaneously promoting the exportation of jobs to overseas( finishing of the wood)
ozarkeyes
09-03-2011, 01:18 PM
A couple million in fines will sure cut into the deficit. :smirk:
Guitar Man
09-03-2011, 01:26 PM
No big loss. Gibson has been building junk for the last few years, anyway. Get a PRS.
Leinie
09-03-2011, 02:57 PM
Probably because they are spending precious resources trying to comply with bs regulations and therefore :frypan:can't devote those resources to r&d ,production and quality control.
AllenW
09-03-2011, 08:17 PM
While your blowing Gibson off, remember this will/can effect Martin, Fender and any maker that uses these woods.
There's a reason they like to use certain woods.
To bad a govt that is how many trillion in debt, has a economy that is going down the tubes and who knows what else, has nothing better to do than go after a US business that may be taking jobs away from some other country.
These pieces of wood are fit to each instrument and can't hardly be pre finished anyway.
Just seems to not make sense.
Al
MarkG
09-04-2011, 09:53 AM
While your blowing Gibson off, remember this will/can effect Martin, Fender and any maker that uses these woods.
There's a reason they like to use certain woods.
To bad a govt that is how many trillion in debt, has a economy that is going down the tubes and who knows what else, has nothing better to do than go after a US business that may be taking jobs away from some other country.
These pieces of wood are fit to each instrument and can't hardly be pre finished anyway.
Just seems to not make sense.
Al
This is the problem here,,it's NOT effecting the others.
They ALL use these woods,from pretty much the same sources. Gibson has been the only one targeted,even as some have described ... STALKED . Why?
Unlike most of the guitar makers ,,Gibson is Non union, is in "Red State" right to work plant locations,and sometimes has made contributions to Republican candidates.
Martin actually advertises these woods in their catalogs,but CF Martin is known to be a DNC contributor. But like the rest,so far untouched by the Justice Dept.
Coincidence?
And just as big a problem for Gibson,is that there were actually no warrants issued by any court,no official specific charges,no "day in court" or trial to answer any charges. Just raided, property and computers seized and the plants shut down. The only day in court Gibson will have is when they try to bring suit against the government to get their property back and the plants reopened. Good luck with THAT !
Gibson Guitars
09-04-2011, 10:12 AM
This is the problem here,,it's NOT effecting the others.
They ALL use these woods,from pretty much the same sources. Gibson has been the only one targeted,even as some have described ... STALKED . Why?
Unlike most of the guitar makers ,,Gibson is Non union, is in "Red State" right to work plant locations,and sometimes has made contributions to Republican candidates.
Martin actually advertises these woods in their catalogs,but CF Martin is known to be a DNC contributor. But like the rest,so far untouched by the Justice Dept.
Coincidence?
And just as big a problem for Gibson,is that there were actually no warrants issued by any court,no official specific charges,no "day in court" or trial to answer any charges. Just raided, property and computers seized and the plants shut down. The only day in court Gibson will have is when they try to bring suit against the government to get their property back and the plants reopened. Good luck with THAT !
Maybe the Government will address their closing of plants and shipping jobs back to India in the Thursday JOBS speech.
Vikings Fan
09-04-2011, 01:34 PM
The Federal Fish and Wildlife Police? Swooping in and confiscating pieces of wood from one of the last U.S. made guitar makers? They don't have better things to do? Sounds like they are overstaffed, over budgeted and at the beck and call of the current the political cronies agendas.
I will sleep better tonight secure in the knowledge that we are being well protected by the politically directed fish and game police. WOW! We can now stop illegal foreign woods from invading our country... On that note I will sleep much better tonight!
How about focusing a little better on all the illegal netting going on in the U.S.A?
Guitar Man
09-04-2011, 03:07 PM
The Federal Fish and Wildlife Police? Swooping in and confiscating pieces of wood from one of the last U.S. made guitar makers?
Besides Fender, PRS, Rickenbacker, Music Man, Aria, Carvin, Martin, Ovation, Parker, Taylor, and many more?
teamlund
09-04-2011, 03:26 PM
america voted for BIG governemnt in 2008 and this is what it looks like....Ugly, unfair, and unruly...
Gibson Guitars
09-04-2011, 03:36 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RnIdhb2iXg
AllenW
09-04-2011, 05:18 PM
Besides Fender, PRS, Rickenbacker, Music Man, Aria, Carvin, Martin, Ovation, Parker, Taylor, and many more?
Ya, he should have said one of the last GOOD guitar makers...:muahaha:
Whether you like Gibson or not, that's not the issue, and from the article it seems that any maker using these woods can be targeted.
Al
Kdawg1966
09-04-2011, 07:05 PM
The Federal Fish and Wildlife Police? Swooping in and confiscating pieces of wood from one of the last U.S. made guitar makers? They don't have better things to do? Sounds like they are overstaffed, over budgeted and at the beck and call of the current the political cronies agendas.
I will sleep better tonight secure in the knowledge that we are being well protected by the politically directed fish and game police. WOW! We can now stop illegal foreign woods from invading our country... On that note I will sleep much better tonight!
How about focusing a little better on all the illegal netting going on in the U.S.A?
I couldn't agree with you more. We don't have the money to build a fence and protect our southern border from the insanely dangerous drug cartels that have taken over, but we have the money to make sure that the "right kind" of wood is coming across the border.
And to echo a previous post, America voted for this and this is what we got.
crappieman
09-04-2011, 07:33 PM
I'm not understanding this at all. I purchase wood from a company in Michigan to use in the building of my fishing rods. I use them for arbors, inserts and in some instances as handles. I purchase these blocks in different size squares that are unfinished and finish them myself. Some of the listed woods, I have bought from this woodselling outlet. Two recently were the ebony and the brazillian rosewood. That is just one company out of hundreds where you can buy these woods and they are legitimate businesses. What's the difference?
Guitar Man
09-04-2011, 08:16 PM
Ya, he should have said one of the last GOOD guitar makers..
Except for Aria, Gibson's quality doesn't come close to those on the list. But that's not the issue.
Guitar Man
09-04-2011, 08:33 PM
I'm not understanding this at all. I purchase wood from a company in Michigan to use in the building of my fishing rods. I use them for arbors, inserts and in some instances as handles. I purchase these blocks in different size squares that are unfinished and finish them myself. Some of the listed woods, I have bought from this woodselling outlet. Two recently were the ebony and the brazillian rosewood. That is just one company out of hundreds where you can buy these woods and they are legitimate businesses. What's the difference?
No idea. I know that Gibson stopped using Brazillian rosewood in 2003, but many other guitar manufacturers still use it.
MarkG
09-05-2011, 10:14 AM
Except for Aria, Gibson's quality doesn't come close to those on the list. But that's not the issue.
Agree,not the issue,but you imply better quality of the others??...I have been mostly a Fender guy myself,but Most of their stuff these days ,whether MIM,MIJ or MIA is all junk ! They feel like toys,compared to the older stuff. Not even necessarily talking about pre CBS.
I'm Keeping and treasuring my 72 JBass. And would gladly take even a Silverface amp to any they have made recently. (except maybe a SUNN bannered 300T )
teamlund
09-05-2011, 02:15 PM
An american business was raided at gun point by our own governemnt and some are agueing the quality of the guitars made by that american business'???
thats totally besides, doesnt even fricken matter! Our government is selectivly ruining business' and telling them to outsource the jobs!!
Glad I didnt vote for that hope and change thingy:frypan:
ozarkeyes
09-05-2011, 02:52 PM
Recommend the youtube link on page 2. The interview and news conference videos with Gibson's CEO are very enlightening. Seems this second raid might been done at the behest of the U.S. Attorney, to delay and even stop the court hearing coming up for the lawsuit filed by Gibson after the 2009 raid. According to the interview and news conference, Gibson has all their proof that they have obtained legal wood. The leftists in the Obama/Holder justice department are going to lose the suit, and the latest raid is just a strong-armed jackboot harrassment and attempt to try and come up some last minute proof to say Gibson is wrong.
teamlund
09-06-2011, 06:12 AM
its just a matter of time before they start raiding homes becasue someone is smoking or votes for a certain plotical party or drives a vehicle that gets poor gas milage........hello big government!
if you voted for him once to prove you are not a racist, fine. But dont vote for him twice to prove you are an idiot!
AllenW
09-06-2011, 06:21 AM
Just a reminder to try and keep politics out of it.
Hard to do in this thread though..:)
Al
What laws do we enforce. maybe we could we could vote on WC on which ones we like and enforce just those. get political, that's a joke it has been political since it started but it,s on the right side of the aisle so it will be ok :)