Electronic dog collars, good or bad

[ffishman]

We have a 5 month old Lab. She is going to be a great dog. When I am around, she is a sweetheart. But, if I am gone, or even leave the room, and the wife is just there, the devil in her comes out. She gets into everything, from taking shoes, papers, cat litter, etc. She does not want to listen to the wife. Me on the other hand, she won't mess with. I am thinking about getting a electronic collar to stop the bad behaviour. The wife is against it because she thinks it will hurt her. We have never used one of these collars before. Are they good to use, or are they cruel?

[stinkycat]

I think the first problem is your wife..... not to be sarcastic.... with my dogs the wife is a problem also. Whenever I train one of our dogs my Wife will un-train them just as fast by not following the training protocol ie... the same commands and follow through that I used for training. My Wife always talks to the dogs like they are humans with full sentences and voice inflection of a child VS one word commands with a commanding tone with consistency. I have E-collars and love them but only when used properly. In your instance would you want your wife to zap your dog when you are not around?

I think same commands and same follow through from your wife would do wonders.

As far has hurting the dog with the e-color I do not think it hurts them at all as long as it is used properly. IMHO

Good Luck and post a pic of your new pup!

[reeltime84]

I think the first problem is your wife..... not to be sarcastic.... with my dogs the wife is a problem also. Whenever I train one of our dogs my Wife will un-train them just as fast by not following the training protocol ie... the same commands and follow through that I used for training. My Wife always talks to the dogs like they are humans with full sentences and voice inflection of a child VS one word commands with a commanding tone with consistency. I have E-collars and love them but only when used properly. In your instance would you want your wife to zap your dog when you are not around?

I think same commands and same follow through from your wife would do wonders.

As far has hurting the dog with the e-color I do not think it hurts them at all as long as it is used properly. IMHO

Good Luck and post a pic of your new pup!

I agree. The collar won't hurt them. Just make sure you are consistent with it. You should keep the collar on her at all times, until it becomes second nature. Otherwise, they will become collar wise and will know when it's off they can behave badly. At least this was my experience with my 18 month old yellow lab.

[Mike W1]

Personally I think they're overused today by many. I bought one years ago to help cure a problem with my Lab at the time. Worked him diligently until he KNEW what he was supposed to do. He then got the command and I shocked him two different times. He never repeated the problem and I never used the thing again. I'd like to put the collar on a few guys that use them and give THEM a dose. Problem is usually the human not the dog!

[Clicker]

Stinky cat is on the right track. I use an E-collar on my lab. She has been trained for hunting with it for corrections only. I set the jolt at a low setting. When used she knows she did something wrong. Anymore I seldom have to use it. Helps the wife when she take her for a walk and does not listen. Commands must be one or two words with a strong voice.

Also have an E-fense. She won't get 15 ft close to the line.

[stinkycat]

Personally I think they're overused today by many. I bought one years ago to help cure a problem with my Lab at the time. Worked him diligently until he KNEW what he was supposed to do. He then got the command and I shocked him two different times. He never repeated the problem and I never used the thing again. I'd like to put the collar on a few guys that use them and give THEM a dose. Problem is usually the human not the dog!

I would agree with you Mike. When used properly they are a great tool but probably over used. And yes the problem is usually the human not the dog! IMHO

[CI_Guy]

Th one we have makes a beep sound before the shock.
5 or 6 years ago when we got the collar to correct some bad behavior we only had to shock Sam twice, after that we would only have to make the collar beep and he would behave. To this day we only have to use the beep if we need to correct a bad habit.

[Pig Pen]

I think ecollars are a wonderful training tool if used properly. The main problem is when a person hasen't learned how to use them. You can't just put a collar on a dog and start making corrections. The dog has to be trained on how to get out of the situation that they are being repremanded for. At 5 months, your pup is still a baby and has lots of energy that they have to burn off. The main thing to keep them from chewing all of your shoes etc. is to give it lots of exercise and provide lots of chew toys for your dog. Because its a lab, it will naturally love to retrieve, so get some tennis balls and let the dog retrieve until he/she is tired out. The main thing at this stage is to just have fun.

When the dog is around 7 months, you should start your formal obedience. If you haven't done this before, I would suggest either sending your dog to a professional trainer or bring the dog to obedience classes. In my opinion, obedience is THE most important part of the whole training process. Depending on what you want to do with your dog as far as hunting or just a good house pet will require more advanced training.

After your basic obedience is complete, then you can start using a ecollar to re-enforce the training. For example if you tell your dog to sit and he dosen't sit, then you use the collar to correct the behavior. You see this way the dog knows how to fix what he was doing wrong. There is alot more to this, but this is just one example. Thats why it is important that you don't just buy a collar and start using it. This can ruin a dog!

As far as how much of a shock depends on the dog. Some will respond on the lowest setting and some dogs require more stimulation. This is where you need to use common sense and read your dogs reaction. One thing to keep in mind is that you use too small of a correction, some dogs will become wise to this and will fight through the stimulation and then you have to using much higher settings than you should have to. I would recomend using just a little more than what is needed to prevent this from happening.

Good Luck!

If you want, pm me with your number and I will be glad to answer any other questions.

[AllenW]

Have your wife take the dog to a obedience course, that imho is the right tool for this job, not the collar.

Al

[ffishman]

We just completed a 6 week puppy course. She is really smart, and picks things up fast. I really don't want to go with the ecollar, I heard it can back fire on you. I guess I will just keep working with her until she gets a touch older.

[Little buddy]

We have a 5 month old Lab. She is going to be a great dog. When I am around, she is a sweetheart. But, if I am gone, or even leave the room, and the wife is just there, the devil in her comes out. She gets into everything, from taking shoes, papers, cat litter, etc. She does not want to listen to the wife. Me on the other hand, she won't mess with. I am thinking about getting a electronic collar to stop the bad behaviour. The wife is against it because she thinks it will hurt her. We have never used one of these collars before. Are they good to use, or are they cruel? I think these collars are way over used. Try actually training a dog instead of scaring and hurting her. Puppys are always going to get into mischief especially if she doesn't respect your wife. She needs to lower her voice as much as she can and handle her with some power. Have her flip her on her back and lay on her until she submits and quits trying to get up. Dogs are pack animals and she needs to realize her place in the pack, your 1, wife is 2, she's 3. Growling at a dogs neck while making her submit will work quicker. Sounds goofy but it works! Hard headed dogs get worse if they don't know their position. Your wife needs to establish dominance now before she gets bigger. I had to get rid of a dog because she would only submit to me, everyone else she was a idiot to. PS, I would recommend zapping yourself if you don't think they hurt. I did it on the highest level (WoW!)

[wildnorthern]

I dog train and run hunt feasts. Collars are extremely useful in the right hands and dogs can be ruined by not using them correctly. You train a dog, then collar condition the dog and then use it to enforce what it knows. It can be used for behavior issues. I won't say anything to my pup if it goes to the counter with front legs off ground and will nick her. A nick isn't a burn and lasts last then a second. The collar should be set to a setting so it doesn't hurt but is uncomfortable.

The dog doesn't listen because it doesn't view her as an alpha. She should walk the dog forcing it to heel. Make the dog sit physically if it doesn't first time told, same as lay. Attach a rope and remote sit the dog, then give it here/come command pulling dog towards you with rope. If your wife doesn't assume the alpha role, the dog will. That is nature

[REW]

There have been quite a few studies done where collars, if overused, can actually drive a dog insane.

I would really not advise that a collar ever be used.

If you want to use a collar, put one on yourself, and set it to the same level as what you have set it to for your dog.

Then, when you give the command to the dog, the same shock will be given to you. See how long you have it on before you go crazy.

------------
Bottom line, if someone is working with an animal and it is not working well, send the person to the dogs obedience school and have the person trained.
It is not the problem with the dog, it is the problem with the person not being trained to work with the dog.
Don't punish or make the dog fearful, because the person is in need of training.

Good luck
REW

[3M TA3]

Try it on yourself first, then on the wife. If you both agree, then follow through with your decision, what ever that may be.

[wildnorthern]

TALK ABOUT IGNORANT! Do you have any idea how much over use if even possible would cause a dog to go insane? Sounds like a study by peta. Performance dogs have a collar used on a regular basis and none of them are insane.

I suppose before you caught a fish you hooked yourself in the lip? What did you try on yourself before you decided where to hook a minnow??????? What kind of test did you do prior to fileting your first fish?

Get a grip.

An untrained person using a collar to punish a dog isn't a good thing, otherwise it is an awesome tool!!!!

[SteveJ]

TALK ABOUT IGNORANT! Do you have any idea how much over use if even possible would cause a dog to go insane? Sounds like a study by peta. Performance dogs have a collar used on a regular basis and none of them are insane.

An untrained person using a collar to punish a dog isn't a good thing, otherwise it is an awesome tool!!!!

Mike W1 hit the nail on the head with his comment. “Personally I think they're overused today by many. I bought one years ago to help cure a problem with my Lab at the time. Worked him diligently until he KNEW what he was supposed to do. He then got the command and I shocked him two different times. He never repeated the problem and I never used the thing again. I'd like to put the collar on a few guys that use them and give THEM a dose. Problem is usually the human not the dog!”

The shock collars tend to be used as a substitute for proper training. A good trainer will have little need for the collar. My wife has been raising English Springer Spaniels for over 40 years. Our primary competition is the confirmation ring, or what most would refer to as show dogs. We have also done obedience, agility and hunting (working dog tests for our breed). We have a shock collar and have NO idea if it still works. They can help in extreme cases, but are not a substitute for proper training. I will even go out on a limb and suggest that most professional use of a shock collar is not necessary, but may expedite the process. I agree with the poster that suggested the coller should be used on the trainer first.

[REW]

Steve,
That is essentially the point that I was trying to make.
i.e. anything can be used as a training device if used wisely and only on rare occasions.

I have just seen so many folks go out on the end and overuse things and end up abusing the creatures that they were attempting to train.

Take care
REW

[Leinie]

Our first lab was a handful for my wife. We signed them up for an obedience training class and it worked very well for us. For our second lab, I took her to class. It worked out well both times because it was as much about training the owner as it was training the dog.

Simple consistant commands,Lot's of praise for success, quick stern corrections, consistency.
I'm not against E-collars for well trained trainers, but they are not a cure all for people who have a dog that won't listen to them.

We have been working on the kids give proper commands and praise so they learn how to handle a dog.

[hemlock]

Training a dog properly is tough, and if you are asking questions about an e-collar I would highly suggest you consult a professional for help before you use it on your dog. Hopefully you have 15 long years with your new boy so put the time in now so you both can enjoy it as much as possible. Electronic collars can be very humane when used properly.

Check out this link.

Go to http://www.sportdog.com/Support/Manuals.aspx
and scroll down to SportDOG Basic Training Manual, It's a 19 page booklet that covers basic e-collar introduction and training. I have worked with hunting dogs for a long time and I still read this booklet which came with the new training collar. I found it very informative on how to work with a new dog.

[Suzuki]

I and everyone I know supports using e-collars. None of us wants to hurt our dog so overuse is not possible. They have been especially helpfull in the field when the excitement of the hunt takes precedence over obeying commands. Once dogs mature they are seldom necessary. That is how it goes in my hunting circles. Others may differ.

[Mpower]

Don't, a shock collar in this case boarders on abuse in my opinion.

[BigWaterFisher]

I have 3 labs, all of them have been trained by me. No trainers or obedience schools involved. I never have used a shock collar, they're unnecessary. Anyone who gets a dog should be prepared for the time commitment into working with them. You cannot expect to get a dog and for it to know how to behave perfectly, you need to spend a lot of time with it. (so does your wife if you want the dog to listen to her as well).

I've shocked myself with a shock collar... they aren't pleasant. If your dog is misbehaving sometimes a simple raised voice or slap on the snout is all that is necessary. I'm not talking about beating your dog either, just a hit so that they know what they are doing is bad behavior. Hitting them lets them know that you are the boss, and it actually hurts less than a shock from a collar. Again... I am NOT talking about abusing your pet, in no way do I think that is ok!

Dogs are loving creatures, they will forgive you almost as soon as you yell at them. They want your love and approval, if they know you're angry, that gets the message through a lot better than a random shock. If you don't correlate the bad behavior with a negative response, the dogs will be confused as to why they are being shocked.

Frankly, if people don't have the time to work with their dog, train it, play with it, and love it like it should be loved... they shouldn't have one in the first place. I'm not saying that your a bad owner, I'm saying you need to expect to have to put in a lot of time with them. Especially when they are young.

[hemlock]

I guess everyone has their opinion, but a shock collar, when used properly, is no more painful than a slap on the nose. I would argue that tapping a dog on it's nose is worse than a gentle shock. Also, it's tough to slap your dog if it decides to chase another animal or run across a road. Do you slap it when/if it comes back?
I agree with a lot of what you said, but I think there is a misconception that a dog is yelping when he is shocked with a training collar. All the new collars have various settings to allow an owner to graduallyincrease the degree of the correction until the dog notices. Too many people abuse their dogs, either physically or with electronics. Also, basic commands and behavior should never be taught with an e-collar.

[chflnghair]

I use a Sportdog E-collar, model 3225. It can be used as a tone or vibration along with shocking. I almost always use the vibration mode. It gets their attention when I need a slight correction for lack of handling. Since I have beagles that seem to sometimes like deer better than rabbits, that's when I shock them with out any verbal commands and I shock them till they're at my feet. It makes them think that the deer is shocking them. It works every time if done right.

One more thing. DON'T LEAVE THE COLLAR ON THE DOG FOR A LONG TIME.........................EVER!!!!! I did it once for 5 days and the metal probes dug holes into their necks and got infected. Hope this helps.

[lacywbosu]

Have a 3.5 yr. lab. He is the smartest dog I have ever owned. Used the collar maybe 5 times ever. Situation used was when he was over 100 yds from me and he thought maybe he could ignore me, the whistle, hand signals, and focus on whatever smells he was whiffing. The immediate zap at that distance just cannot be done any other way. Without the radio signal, your check cord may not be long enough. Sure not gonna run him down. If you give the come command and he comes then you scold him it gives a mixed signal. Lots of love, lots of treats, lots of repetition is all that remains. An abusive owner can take a check cord, leash, his hand, shock collar or whatever and be abusive. A loving owner can figure it out easily and make a shock collar work well.

[Fish-er-man]

I've shocked myself with a shock collar... they aren't pleasant. If your dog is misbehaving sometimes a simple raised voice or slap on the snout is all that is necessary. I'm not talking about beating your dog either, just a hit so that they know what they are doing is bad behavior. Hitting them lets them know that you are the boss, and it actually hurts less than a shock from a collar. Again... I am NOT talking about abusing your pet, in no way do I think that is ok!


I have a vizsla and if I hit her she looks at me like what the he** was that for. She does not understand physical punishment of any kind. She does understand a training collar though. I think if used properly and if your dog already knows the command they are a great tool. Yes you must be consistent that is the biggest part of training a dog in anyway training collar or not. Mine is trained to come with the tone so I would be lost without it. Some dogs do not respond well to them though so its something you have to find out for yourself. But like I said the dog needs to know the command so they know why they are being punished. I don't know how hard you hit so I was unable to compare it to my collar but you must hit yourself if you know this.