Wisconsin C&C Starts Today

[Juls]

C & C? What's that stand for?

Juls

[phowler]

Concealed Carry?

[Juls]

Concealed Carry?

Ahhhh...yes, that must be it. Thanks. :)

Juls

[AllenW]

Ahhhh...yes, that must be it. Thanks. :)

Juls


That would be correct, concealed carry.

Al

[Suzuki]

Yep.

[teamlund]

Hurray and Thank You!!!!!!

yup, bout time!

[Chode2235]

yup, bout time!


Maybe I'm just a bit naive, but other than "because I can" what is the need to C&C?

Self protection? Seems like dubious reasoning given most people's proficiency with a handgun while shooting at a target, much less in a high stress situation (such as a robbery). I haven't gone shooting with many, if anyone, I would want 'protecting me' over getting my wallet jacked. Especially given the likelihood of 'collateral damage.'

Not to get too political, but I really fail to see the need or rationale for these new laws, other than as a token gesture to the constitutional fundies.

[SGPopp]

Maybe I'm just a bit naive, but other than "because I can" what is the need to C&C?

Self protection? Seems like dubious reasoning given most people's proficiency with a handgun while shooting at a target, much less in a high stress situation (such as a robbery). I haven't gone shooting with many, if anyone, I would want 'protecting me' over getting my wallet jacked. Especially given the likelihood of 'collateral damage.'

Not to get too political, but I really fail to see the need or rationale for these new laws, other than as a token gesture to the constitutional fundies.


.....and we're off to the races!

However, I wholeheartedly agree!!! If you are that concerned about your personal safety you could have been carrying open for years.

[Golden Eagle]

Maybe I'm just a bit naive, but other than "because I can" what is the need to C&C?

Self protection? Seems like dubious reasoning given most people's proficiency with a handgun while shooting at a target, much less in a high stress situation (such as a robbery). I haven't gone shooting with many, if anyone, I would want 'protecting me' over getting my wallet jacked. Especially given the likelihood of 'collateral damage.'

Not to get too political, but I really fail to see the need or rationale for these new laws, other than as a token gesture to the constitutional fundies.

Carrying allows one to even the odds when confronted by a bad guy. Other choice is volunteering to become a victim. I would use it to prevent someone from killing or injuring my wife or me. You would be on your own, if in the same crowd.

[jstme]

Look where it got the GUY in MN just recently...... Nothing but trouble although I am sure the old lady was thankful...... I will wait to see the outcome for the good Samaritan that Shot and Killed the MN thug/thief.

[AllenW]

This is one of those touchy subjects that one should at least get a few of the facts before posting, Wisc did have a open carry law, they also had a law against disturbing the peace which is what people carrying open can be charged with if someone complains.

So yes you could carry open and also get arrested for disturbing the peace (or something close to that) this law eliminates that.

Also maybe crime is non existent is some parts of the country, not so for the majority and considering the police rarely if ever stop a crime from happening, it falls on law abiding citizens to protect them selfs.

The best attitude might be, if you don't think carrying is proper for you, don't.

I will continue to carry till safe to go with out.
IMHO

Al

[AllenW]

Look where it got the GUY in MN just recently...... Nothing but trouble although I am sure the old lady was thankful...... I will wait to see the outcome for the good Samaritan that Shot and Killed the MN thug/thief.

No charges filed, there's always the possibility of civil suit though.
Al

[ChuckD]

I wouldn't say it got the MN CCW guy in "nothing but trouble". He was not charged for a crime and the police investigation determined he acted in self-defense. That thug was bad news with a history of robbing people. He obviously became more violent with time being convicted of simple robbery, to aggravated robbery and repeated another agg. robbery and assaulting an innocent woman....

I'm glad to see WI change their ways.

WI had 83,000 hits (and counting) this morning for applications.

If you don't want to carry a gun, then don't. End of story.

[Little buddy]

With my Irish heritage, I'm partial to ball bats. Guns are cool too though LOL!:frypan:

[jstme]

I wouldn't say it got the MN CCW guy in "nothing but trouble". He was not charged for a crime and the police investigation determined he acted in self-defense. That thug was bad news with a history of robbing people. He obviously became more violent with time being convicted of simple robbery, to aggravated robbery and repeated another agg. robbery and assaulting an innocent woman....

I'm glad to see WI change their ways.

WI had 83,000 hits (and counting) this morning for applications.

If you don't want to carry a gun, then don't. End of story.


Thanks for sharing, I must have missed that update. "He was not charged for a crime and the police investigation determined he acted in self-defense. " I was under the impression that they were waiting to see if they could charge him of a crime. Pending the outcome of the investigation.

[Because]

Because cops are only minutes away when you have seconds.....

That, and you sould like a person who does not live in a highly populated city. You clearly don't have to deal with these criminals on a daily basis.

[Suzuki]

Open carry does not necessarily offer a lot of safety in an urban environment because you are broadcasting the fact you are carrying and eliminating the element of suprise possibly making yourself a target to the bad guys and needlessy worrying the general public. Concealing takes care of both. Concerning personal safety many are perfectly content to let the police defend them and that's fine however when seconds count the police are minutes away.

[SGPopp]

I'm glad that WI passed the law. I really am. I like that people have the option if they choose. What I don't like is that now people say they feel safe when going out. Did they not feel safe yesterday before they could carry?

I'm 39 years old. Born in Detroit, live in Green Bay, travel to Milwaukee almost weekly for work. I've never been in a situation where having a hand gun would have helped me or made the situation better. I'm sure there are people on here with different stories though. I certainly think there are times and situations where people feel the need to carry. I just seem to keep running into people who tell me they will carry all the time for personal protection.

[Steven Pederson]

I think that the thought of people now being able to carry, is more beneficial than actually carrying. Criminals would be less likely to pull a gun or use force if they knew there was an off chance you were packing.
Of course, Wisconie’s know how to party; I foresee a lot of shooting into the night sky. :bang-bang: (Kidding of course)

[teamlund]

Maybe I'm just a bit naive, but other than "because I can" what is the need to C&C?

Self protection? Seems like dubious reasoning given most people's proficiency with a handgun while shooting at a target, much less in a high stress situation (such as a robbery). I haven't gone shooting with many, if anyone, I would want 'protecting me' over getting my wallet jacked. Especially given the likelihood of 'collateral damage.'

Not to get too political, but I really fail to see the need or rationale for these new laws, other than as a token gesture to the constitutional fundies.

I wont even carry as I dont feel the need but I sure dont think that uncle sam should be deciding who can and cant protect themselves or even carry a gun at all....Its about the individual, not what big brother wants of us. Why would you not want a right that was granted to us by our founding fathers? oh heavens, I must be one of those consitutional fundies...:fishhit:

[Little buddy]

Michigan has had the right to carry for quite a while now. Almost everyone I know that went out and got the permit doesn't even carry their gun anymore. Cool concept, highly controversial at first and now nobody even talks about it anymore. If you do go out and get a gun, I would recommend something small and slim or you won't stick with it. PS. Don't shoot your eye out with that thing..........

[jerr unlogged]

I'm signing up, going thru the course, paying the fees to get my permit BUT I seriously doubt that I'll ever carry a handgun concealed. I'm doing this totally to support the movement.- - jerr

[teamlund]

I'm signing up, going thru the course, paying the fees to get my permit BUT I seriously doubt that I'll ever carry a handgun concealed. I'm doing this totally to support the movement.- - jerr

same reason why I will get a permit....basically so I can be a number and support our rights....I doubt i will carry...:bang-bang:

[Opti-Mist]

Michigan has had the right to carry for quite a while now. Almost everyone I know that went out and got the permit doesn't even carry their gun anymore. Cool concept, highly controversial at first and now nobody even talks about it anymore. If you do go out and get a gun, I would recommend something small and slim or you won't stick with it. PS. Don't shoot your eye out with that thing..........

Yep, my S&W 629 makes a pretty big lump! :bigsmile:

[Buck Snort]

Look where it got the GUY in MN just recently...... Nothing but trouble although I am sure the old lady was thankful...... I will wait to see the outcome for the good Samaritan that Shot and Killed the MN thug/thief.

Ummmm. The outcome is, nothing. He's not being charged.

Good guys's = 1
Pistol whipping cowards = 0

[Buck Snort]

No charges filed, there's always the possibility of civil suit though.
Al

I believe you cannot file a Civil suit if it was found a crime was commited by the dead perp.

[S.Larson]

Maybe I'm just a bit naive, but other than "because I can" what is the need to C&C?

Self protection? Seems like dubious reasoning given most people's proficiency with a handgun while shooting at a target, much less in a high stress situation (such as a robbery). I haven't gone shooting with many, if anyone, I would want 'protecting me' over getting my wallet jacked. Especially given the likelihood of 'collateral damage.'

Not to get too political, but I really fail to see the need or rationale for these new laws, other than as a token gesture to the constitutional fundies.

I agree,.....

[teamlund]

I agree,.....


umm, if you dont want to carry than dont.... But dont you at least think folks should have the right to carry a gun if they see fit?

ask one of the many woman in WI that have been raped if a gun in their purse would have changed the outcome of that event? and then tell them that CC is not needed....:boozer:

[ret461]

I believe you cannot file a Civil suit if it was found a crime was commited by the dead perp.
The family files a wrongful death suit. Has nothing to do with being charged or not. This is the one thats a problem when the family talks about how the guy was straighting his life out

[Further North]

Maybe I'm just a bit naive, but other than "because I can" what is the need to C&C?

Self protection? Seems like dubious reasoning given most people's proficiency with a handgun while shooting at a target, much less in a high stress situation (such as a robbery). I haven't gone shooting with many, if anyone, I would want 'protecting me' over getting my wallet jacked. Especially given the likelihood of 'collateral damage.'

Not to get too political, but I really fail to see the need or rationale for these new laws, other than as a token gesture to the constitutional fundies.

Then don't get a permit...it's pretty simple.

Those who want one should have one, those who don't, shouldn't.

What it's really about is those who don't telling those who do what they can and can't do...It's not a political party issue, it's far less complicated than that.

[Further North]

Because cops are only minutes away when you have seconds.....

That, and you sould like a person who does not live in a highly populated city. You clearly don't have to deal with these criminals on a daily basis.

People out in the sticks are actually much more in need than those in cities...crime rates are much lower...but when something does happen, the odds of law enforcement being around are so close to zero that it's not worth calculating the difference.

[DRICH]

It is also nice that WI will honor IA permits as well. Just being across the bridge it will be handy. It better to have it and not need it. VS the other way around

[S.Larson]

umm, if you dont want to carry than dont.... But dont you at least think folks should have the right to carry a gun if they see fit?

ask one of the many woman in WI that have been raped if a gun in their purse would have changed the outcome of that event? and then tell them that CC is not needed....:boozer:

And how many of those woman would have ended up dead when the attacker turned the gun on them???

[Further North]

And how many of those woman would have ended up dead when the attacker turned the gun on them???

Really?

I'm gonna go with "none".

...and even if it was...say...one in ten...would you rather see the other nine raped and killed?

[thump55]

I am in favor of CC here in WI, however, the training standards are not stringent enough.

Having passed a Hunter's Safety course is NOT the type of handgun training that will help keep you and others safe, yet that is all the training that is required to obtain a permit.

This video says a lot:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-rGnMKszxg

warning: there are a few cuss words in the video after the gentleman shoots himself

[wallymn99]

And its about time. Now just have to wait for the permit to show up. What sucks is that if you are NOT a wisc resident you can carry with a valid permit. But if you are a wisc resident you have to wait to get your permit. Very stupid. They should have allowed residents to carry with out of state permits. Not sure why you get the priv being out of state.

And if you don't want to carry then don't. No one is forcing anyone. Wisc law makers are now looking to pass Castle doctrine which is also WAY OVERDUE. This would eliminate the risk of having to defend yourself in a civil suit if you protected yourself according to the law. Do you realize that if you live in wisconsin, and a thug broke into your house you can't do anything unless he threatens you? he could just pick up your 60" plasma and walk out and all you can do is wait for the police. As long as he isn't going to hurt you, you can't do a thing. Having to wait for him to become aggresive is just plain stupid.

[teamlund]

I am in favor of CC here in WI, however, the training standards are not stringent enough.

Having passed a Hunter's Safety course is NOT the type of handgun training that will help keep you and others safe, yet that is all the training that is required to obtain a permit.

This video says a lot:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-rGnMKszxg

warning: there are a few cuss words in the video after the gentleman shoots himself


I dont think uncle sam should be regulating out rights...Its our right to own and bear arms... Big brother should not be laying out the who, whats, and whens of our rights. We should be telling uncle sam when, where, who, and how.......

here is someone with plenty of training and it still happens. The gov cant protect everyone and its not their job to protect someone from possibly shooting themselves. Its up to the individual to decide if they are able to carry...If they shoot themselves, well, it was their doing and decision making.

[Steven Pederson]

And how many of those woman would have ended up dead when the attacker turned the gun on them???


BINGO!!! If you're being held up by a gun, and you reach for a gun, I doubt your reaction times are fast enough to help you..... But thats a whole other argument. Becomes a lottery situation.

I'm all for freedom of choice. If you want to carry, then carry, if you don't want to, then don't.

[teamlund]

BINGO!!! If you're being held up by a gun, and you reach for a gun, I doubt your reaction times are fast enough to help you..... But thats a whole other argument. Becomes a lottery situation.

I'm all for freedom of choice. If you want to carry, then carry, if you don't want to, then don't.


sure, but that comes back to the person and thei decision making abilities. I wouldnt try and pull a gun if I had one pointed in my face but if some guy is trying to beat the crap out of me with a hammer I will let the iron sing. But someone should at least be allowed to have the choice to defend themselves if in that situation.... Mind you many attacks happen without a gun...

It just blows my mind that some out there think that folks shouldnt have this right. Not everyone wants to sit back and let uncle sam baby sit us. We should be protecting ourselves, feeding ourselves, provding for ourselves...Not waiting for big brother to gove us protection, food, shelter.

[Hawker]

sure, but that comes back to the person and thei decision making abilities. I wouldnt try and pull a gun if I had one pointed in my face but if some guy is trying to beat the crap out of me with a hammer I will let the iron sing. But someone should at least be allowed to have the choice to defend themselves if in that situation.... Mind you many attacks happen without a gun...

It just blows my mind that some out there think that folks shouldn't have this right. Not everyone wants to sit back and let uncle sam baby sit us. We should be protecting ourselves, feeding ourselves, providing for ourselves...Not waiting for big brother to give us protection, food, shelter.

+1 :thumbsup:

[AllenW]

Had the women/anybody taken a good self defense course the chance of being surprised and the gun taken away would be slim to none.

Being aware of your surrounding and giving consideration to the places you are going are prime in these course's.

I agree the hunting course is indeed not sufficient, these are two different subjects and other than basic gun safety, worlds apart.

I don't think it's the legally carrying gun owners anybodies got to be worried about, stats have proved this time and time again.

Al

[Steven Pederson]

sure, but that comes back to the person and thei decision making abilities. I wouldnt try and pull a gun if I had one pointed in my face but if some guy is trying to beat the crap out of me with a hammer I will let the iron sing. But someone should at least be allowed to have the choice to defend themselves if in that situation.... Mind you many attacks happen without a gun...

It just blows my mind that some out there think that folks shouldnt have this right. Not everyone wants to sit back and let uncle sam baby sit us. We should be protecting ourselves, feeding ourselves, provding for ourselves...Not waiting for big brother to gove us protection, food, shelter.

Another Bingo!!!! different situations warrent different actions. I'm all about freedom of choise as well. Kind of like why does the Federal government mandate fuel economy. I should be able to buy what I want....

[teamlund]

we should have every right that has been granted to us by our founding fathers without the gov regulating how much of that right we can use or not use.... If you choose to not practice those rights, fine... But sure as heck dont think that everyone else should have to forfeit those rights just becasue you dont practice them. :banghead:

[teamlund]

you hope...or a knife, you get the idea...But someone as tough and mean as you can take on anyone without a weapon becasue the training you recieved as a navy seal allows you to survive in any event....
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn172/teamlund/gun.jpg
have you ever had a weapon pulled on you? I have had a knife and 2 guns pulled on me.. I used to dibble and dabble alittle with drugs, just alittle...... I really wasnt in control of any of these situations..But yet the rice lake super hero can get any weapon from any person out there and be in total control at all times....

[wallymn99]

Put it this way. A few years ago my wife was followed to her car in a parking garage by either a criminal or homeless person. It was quite obvious to her that there was some intent. She was aware of her surroundings and thats how she caught on to what was happening. In a situation like this, having a firearm and the training would have worked just fine. She made it to her car in time and luckly there was another person pulling out at the same time. However, you can never be sure. She would have had time to draw a firearm and protect herself and NOT BE A VICTIM. This was before CCW in Wisc. This situation happens all the time. It's our right to NOT BE A VICTIM. And in case you haven't heard about Police response times in Milwaukee in the news lately, but there have been lots of complaints of the police not coming to a robery etc.. for over 3 hours.

[teamlund]

Put it this way. A few years ago my wife was followed to her car in a parking garage by either a criminal or homeless person. It was quite obvious to her that there was some intent. She was aware of her surroundings and thats how she caught on to what was happening. In a situation like this, having a firearm and the training would have worked just fine. She made it to her car in time and luckly there was another person pulling out at the same time. However, you can never be sure. She would have had time to draw a firearm and protect herself and NOT BE A VICTIM. This was before CCW in Wisc. This situation happens all the time. It's our right to NOT BE A VICTIM. And in case you haven't heard about Police response times in Milwaukee in the news lately, but there have been lots of complaints of the police not coming to a robery etc.. for over 3 hours.

but there are guys like S larson that think your wife shouldnt have the right to protect herself..... What, she cant unarm a man without worry? S Larson can!!

[thump55]

I dont think uncle sam should be regulating out rights...Its our right to own and bear arms... Big brother should not be laying out the who, whats, and whens of our rights. We should be telling uncle sam when, where, who, and how.......



So are you saying that you are against having people who want to carry take some training specific to the weapon they will be carrying around your family in public?

[drinkingul]

Curious how many will C&C when out for a drink or two. Also does a dui disqualify a person from C&C? Thanks

[ChuckD]

Because cops are only minutes away when you have seconds.....

That, and you sould like a person who does not live in a highly populated city. You clearly don't have to deal with these criminals on a daily basis.

I assume you directed this to me since it appears my location is not in a highly populated city. You obviously do not know me, and I certainly don't know you as an anonymous poster, but I can guarantee you I work with "criminals" and the criminal justice system on a daily basis. :)

[ChuckD]

Curious how many will C&C when out for a drink or two. Also does a dui disqualify a person from C&C? Thanks

In MN, you can carry a firearm under .04% alcohol concentration. I wouldn't drink and carry, but I'm sure there's people that have a drink. Here is the MN law, and it lists all the exclusions... https://www.revisor.mn.gov/bin/getpub.php?type=s&num=624.714 DUI is not one, but if it's a felony?? you have more issues to deal with.

[AllenW]

Curious how many will C&C when out for a drink or two. Also does a dui disqualify a person from C&C? Thanks

However, it is a class A misdemeanor (punishable by 9 months jail and/or $10,000 fine) for anyone to go armed with a firearm while under the influence of an intoxicant. Wis. Stat. § 941.20(1)(b). "Under the Influence‖ has been defined as materially impairing the ability to handle a firearm which is further explained as consuming ―an amount of alcohol to cause the person to be less able to exercise clear judgment and steady hand necessary to handle a firearm.‖ WI Jury Instruction-CRIMINAL 1321.


http://www.doj.state.wi.us/dles/cib/ConcealedCarry/ccw-faq-20111020.pdf

Al

[Dacotah Eye]

I have a permit, but don't carry at this time which could change. I like the idea of being able to have a hand gun under the seat of my vehicle or on the seat and covered by something. The biggest problem I see is what the reaction would be if law enforcement pulls me over for something and I inform the officer that I have a hand gun in the vehicle. I can see some being ok with it and others sticking a pistol in my face because of it. I haven't been pulled over in over twenty years though.

[Derwood]

One thing to remember is WC stretches across the whole county, right? I think one of the reasons others are so passionate about CC is they DO spend time, either by choice or otherwise, in places where they need protection. I personally do not live or spend much time in such places where I feel I need a hand gun to protect myself. So, I think about my area and really don't think people need to carry...just my opinion. Others in the same town may feel differently beause of their particular circumstances, relationships, neighbors, or perhaps I'm just nieve. But the "violent crime" is the exception where I live, not the rule.

It's legal in Wisconsin now. Better warm up to it, or fight like heck to get rid of it. Pick a side, it's your right to do so. For me, I'll take the "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" approach and I will carry now just in case the person next to me happens to be carrying.

[eriksat1]

How do you get the cc license? I was told you had to take the cc class? By me they wanted $200 to take the 4 hour class. I want to carry if / when I need to, but don't have the cash for the class, plus I was told they are fighting in Madison to raising the cost to like $1000+ to stop many people from getting one, so best get one now so you can be grandfathered in. I just like the idea of carrying a pistol while walking in the woods. Cougars, bears, wolfs.

[gonfishn95]

here is a link.
Looks like any gun safety program, or just a DD214. Had a guy tell me same, but waited and did not waste money for their training, already had the MN classes and did not seem to make sense to take a class again,
You can download a PDF from link.

http://www.doj.state.wi.us/dles/cib/ConcealedCarry/ConcealedCarry.asp


How do you get the cc license? I was told you had to take the cc class? By me they wanted $200 to take the 4 hour class. I want to carry if / when I need to, but don't have the cash for the class, plus I was told they are fighting in Madison to raising the cost to like $1000+ to stop many people from getting one, so best get one now so you can be grandfathered in. I just like the idea of carrying a pistol while walking in the woods. Cougars, bears, wolfs.

[drinkerul]

However, it is a class A misdemeanor (punishable by 9 months jail and/or $10,000 fine) for anyone to go armed with a firearm while under the influence of an intoxicant. Wis. Stat. § 941.20(1)(b). "Under the Influence‖ has been defined as materially impairing the ability to handle a firearm which is further explained as consuming ―an amount of alcohol to cause the person to be less able to exercise clear judgment and steady hand necessary to handle a firearm.‖ WI Jury Instruction-CRIMINAL 1321.


http://www.doj.state.wi.us/dles/cib/ConcealedCarry/ccw-faq-20111020.pdf

Al




Excellent, I guess if someone goes out and has an extra drink or two they can just call a designated C&C service to get the gun home. Does kinda scare a person to think of how many people roll the dice and have DUI's will also roll the dice with their guns. Scary.

[Golden Eagle]

I could have opted out of the course due to my military service, but took it anyway. The course was worth my time and money. I belong to a gun club where I punch holes in targets. I'm overdue for a little practice.

I never leave my house without a weapon and cell phone. I want to make the first call in case I'm ever forced to use.

[Suzuki]

I have a permit, but don't carry at this time which could change. I like the idea of being able to have a hand gun under the seat of my vehicle or on the seat and covered by something. The biggest problem I see is what the reaction would be if law enforcement pulls me over for something and I inform the officer that I have a hand gun in the vehicle. I can see some being ok with it and others sticking a pistol in my face because of it. I haven't been pulled over in over twenty years though.

You have no obligation whatsoever to volunteer that info to a LEO. The only instance I can see it being warranted is if they are about to pat you down or stumble onto your sidearm for some other reason. Then you could politely inform them to avoid them from panicking. Otherwise its none of their business, plain and simple. Once you get used to carrying worries like this fade away. Its not that big a deal. I remember my first time going into a bank with a gun like it was yesterday. Scary stuff. Now its nothing.

[Dacotah Eye]

You have no obligation whatsoever to volunteer that info to a LEO. The only instance I can see it being warranted is if they are about to pat you down or stumble onto your sidearm for some other reason. Then you could politely inform them to avoid them from panicking. Otherwise its none of their business, plain and simple. Once you get used to carrying worries like this fade away. Its not that big a deal. I remember my first time going into a bank with a gun like it was yesterday. Scary stuff. Now its nothing.If I do decide to start carrying, it will more than likely be something smaller than my GP100 which puts a pretty big lump under a jacket. I haven't given it much thought so far.

[VernH]

You have no obligation whatsoever to volunteer that info to a LEO. The only instance I can see it being warranted is if they are about to pat you down or stumble onto your sidearm for some other reason. Then you could politely inform them to avoid them from panicking. Otherwise its none of their business, plain and simple. Once you get used to carrying worries like this fade away. Its not that big a deal. I remember my first time going into a bank with a gun like it was yesterday. Scary stuff. Now its nothing.

Depends upon the state you are in. Some states require that you inform the oficer. For instance, in VA, NC TX AR and MI you need to either inform the officer you have a permit and/or or carrying. (not an exhaustive list.)

Some states tie the Carry permit info to the drivers license or vehicle license plate so the officer would know. MN law doesn't require LEO notification and it doesn't tie the Carry permit database to the drivers license database. I believe that TX,OH,AR,VA KS and MI do that (not an exhaustive list.)

In some states, if you don't inform the officer, a ticket can be issued.

[Suzuki]

I forget this is a national website. I was indeed refering to MN and Wi. Thanks for clarifying.

[teamlund]

So are you saying that you are against having people who want to carry take some training specific to the weapon they will be carrying around your family in public?


yes, its a constitutional right to carry and own a gun... The governemnt shouldnt be regulating and requiring certain items along with it....why is our gov deciding who can and cant have those rights? its no diff than when they pick winners and losers in business. They shouldnt be deciding who fails and who gets carried on to the next round...This is suppose to be a free society not a soceity of folks that the gov picks and chooses who is free.....Like someone else stated, what about cash? not everyone can afford the class so they dont have the right to carry? nope, and thats wrong.

[Further North]

I am in favor of CC here in WI, however, the training standards are not stringent enough.

Having passed a Hunter's Safety course is NOT the type of handgun training that will help keep you and others safe, yet that is all the training that is required to obtain a permit.

This video says a lot:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-rGnMKszxg

warning: there are a few cuss words in the video after the gentleman shoots himself

That video's got nothing...nothing...to do with either training or concealed carry...

[thump55]

yes, its a constitutional right to carry and own a gun... The governemnt shouldnt be regulating and requiring certain items along with it....why is our gov deciding who can and cant have those rights? its no diff than when they pick winners and losers in business. They shouldnt be deciding who fails and who gets carried on to the next round...This is suppose to be a free society not a soceity of folks that the gov picks and chooses who is free.....Like someone else stated, what about cash? not everyone can afford the class so they dont have the right to carry? nope, and thats wrong.

Look, all I'm saying is that there are a lot of dumb people out there that should be trained before handling a weapon. I certainly know you're not one of them, but they walk around and drive cars just like the rest of us...they don't even know they are dumb.

[jstme]

Look, all I'm saying is that there are a lot of dumb people out there. They walk around and drive cars just like the rest of us...they don't even know they are dumb.


:phatyo: I can't stop laughing its sooo true it hurts! :thumbsup:

[AllenW]

If everybody should be able to carry, would you include, Manson, Dalmer, your favorite gangsta wanna be or Rosie O'Donald??


ok..ok..I'm kidding about rosie...kinda....:)

Al

[Suzuki]

Absolutely nothing is preventing bad buys from being armed. This law allows the good guys to be armed.

[darin]

yes, its a constitutional right to carry and own a gun... The governemnt shouldnt be regulating and requiring certain items along with it....why is our gov deciding who can and cant have those rights? its no diff than when they pick winners and losers in business. They shouldnt be deciding who fails and who gets carried on to the next round...This is suppose to be a free society not a soceity of folks that the gov picks and chooses who is free.....Like someone else stated, what about cash? not everyone can afford the class so they dont have the right to carry? nope, and thats wrong.

So no training then, right?

[teamlund]

Look, all I'm saying is that there are a lot of dumb people out there that should be trained before handling a weapon. I certainly know you're not one of them, but they walk around and drive cars just like the rest of us...they don't even know they are dumb.

yeah, I know there are alot of dumb people out there and that was proven in the 2008 election....

[Further North]

Excellent, I guess if someone goes out and has an extra drink or two they can just call a designated C&C service to get the gun home. Does kinda scare a person to think of how many people roll the dice and have DUI's will also roll the dice with their guns. Scary.

Or...you know...just leave the gun cased in the car.

[Further North]

Look, all I'm saying is that there are a lot of dumb people out there that should be trained before handling a weapon. I certainly know you're not one of them, but they walk around and drive cars just like the rest of us...they don't even know they are dumb.

Yep. They drive cars. They can do a heck of a lot more damage with a car than you can with a gun...but we let 'em drive cars....

[darin]

Completely inappropriate and uncalled for... Poor judgement.

[Mueller]

umm, if you dont want to carry than dont.... But dont you at least think folks should have the right to carry a gun if they see fit?

ask one of the many woman in WI that have been raped if a gun in their purse would have changed the outcome of that event? and then tell them that CC is not needed....:boozer:

Well Said!!!!!!!

[teamlund]

So no training then, right?


no training! It should be up to the indiviual to decide if they are capable of packin heat or if they need to... The gov should not be deciding this!!!! Every single one of us has the rights to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness no matter how dumb, ugly, immature you think they are. They are still granted those rights.....am I wrong?

Dp the bad guys that carry guns take training courses? no, so why the **** should the good guys have too?!?!?!

[drinkerul]

no training! It should be up to the indiviual to decide if they are capable of packin heat or if they need to... The gov should not be deciding this!!!! Every single one of us has the rights to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness no matter how dumb, ugly, immature you think they are. They are still granted those rights.....am I wrong?

Dp the bad guys that carry guns take training courses? no, so why the **** should the good guys have too?!?!?!

Why do you assume you are a "good guy"?

[teamlund]

Why do you assume you are a "good guy"?

umm, I know myself better than anyone else....Bad guys have been carrying for some time now. I have not been carrying becasue I am a law abiding citizen....

It amazes me how some that side with a certain political party want to tell us that we dont have the right to protect ourselves and carry yet others have the right to kill an unborn child..makes alot of sense...

or another good one from that side is...dont you dare cut down that tree but go ahead and have an abortion....:banghead:

[AllenW]

Please stay on topic and remain civil, you know what happens when things get personal or abusive.

Here's a chance to maybe learn about Wisc carry laws and such, if the thread doesn't get axed.


Thanks much.

Al

[teamlund]

You seem to come across as angry, accusatory, aggressive towards people that don't agree with you. Jaded, frustrated, assuming that people that don't agree with you are not in line with the American way. Sounds like a difficult dark world to live in. Hopefully caring a gun will ease much of your unrest and give some happiness and esteem.


actually I wont be carrying...Yes I am alittle angered when folks openly forfeit their rights and expect the rest of us to do the same. We are not talking fishing lures here, we are talking constitutional rights...

also, applogizes for getting alittle off topic.....

[thump55]

I was a little surprised last night on the news they said the NRA is against the simple four hour long training course, despite the fact that many other CC states have much stricter requirements. More hearings to come on Monday regarding the rules.

Hard to believe an organization that preaches safe gun handling would fight a few simple hours of basic gun training. Mind boggling really.

[jerr unlogged]

Myself included, just with the courses offered, I don't feel we'll be qualified to carry concealed. I will be taking the course and aplying for the permit but seriously doubt I'll ever carry concealed. I'm doing this totally in support of those who will carry- - -good, bad, or indifferent, I feel it's our right- - jerr

[phowler]

I was a little surprised last night on the news they said the NRA is against the simple four hour long training course, despite the fact that many other CC states have much stricter requirements. More hearings to come on Monday regarding the rules.

Hard to believe an organization that preaches safe gun handling would fight a few simple hours of basic gun training. Mind boggling really.

Just a thought but I have never heard anything reported on "the news" about the NRA that was actually true. The NRA is all for firearms training, what they are likely against is the high cost which is intended to continue the infringement on our right. I believe I read here that the cost was $200. If I'm not mistaken the cost here in Iowa is $50. "The news" loves to bend the truth about organizations like the NRA to cast them in a bad light.

[thump55]

From the article:

"Specifically, the rifle association complained that applicants must take at least four hours of training and get an instructor's signature on a completion certificate."

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20111024/GPG0101/110240507/Wisconsin-Attorney-General-upholds-law-against-NRA-s-wishes

Seems pretty cut and dried to me...

[Steven Pederson]

Heres a fun little story. Nothing to do with CC, but someone felt threatened and pulled a gun.

AIKEN, S.C. -- South Carolina officials say a 10-year-old trick-or-treater pulled a handgun on a woman who joked that she'd steal his Halloween candy.
Aiken Public Safety Lt. David Turno says a 10-year-old in the group said "no" and pointed the handgun at her.
Turno says the gun wasn't loaded but the boy had a clip of ammunition. He was taken to the police station and was turned over to his parents.
Turno said the boy's brother, who is also 10, told officials he also had a gun and both weapons were recovered by police. Turno says the boys got them from their grandfather without his permission.

[Hawker]

I would like to think (I know, a stupid act on my part) that most all states allowing CC would offer similar CC Training Classes! The course's given here in Oklahoma focus very little on "gun" training and are geared towards providing the information to the CC applicant on the legal "when, where, why & how" aspect of utilizing the concealed weapon, the ramifications of stepping outside those boundaries etc! Classroom time alone is 6 hours, then another 1-2 hours at the range firing line (30 rounds per person total) for the instructors to determine if an individual is actually fit and/or responsible enough to be wielding a weapon in the presence of innocent bystanders etc!

I've been packing (when I felt it might be prudent to do so) off an on for the biggest portion of my life and after taking the CC course, think it's a pretty prudent, informative course to take, especially for those that strive to be good law abiding citizens! The course itself (here in Oklahoma) was $50 per person, the 10 year permit (after background checks by the OSBI) was $100. You can't even apply for the permit unless you have taken the CC Course through an approved independent CC Instructor here in OK either!

I remember all too well all the turmoil, griping, complaining etc that went on here in Oklahoma when the CC laws went into effect!! Got kinda nasty for a while, but it's pretty much settled down for the past several years! Now-days, it's "make my day laws and open carry laws" that are in the limelight here!! Hope they both get passed here!! (but that's just MOPO)

Best of luck Wisconsin, and well wishes for those applying for CC there!!

[Derwood]

Team Lund...

I was just making sure I clearly understood your position about CC classes. It's more difficult to take you seriously when you're all over the road like that lol!! I think we're all friends here...at least on some level. Most of your posts on other threads that I have read, have been one's I have enjoyed reading and find they are usually full of useful information... Your passion for your rights are admirable.

respectfully,
darin/Derwood

[Buck Snort]

The family files a wrongful death suit. Has nothing to do with being charged or not. This is the one thats a problem when the family talks about how the guy was straighting his life out

This is the kind of thought we would expect out of IL on guns. The ONLY state left that fully violates the 2A of the constitution.

[Buck Snort]

If everybody should be able to carry, would you include, Manson, Dalmer, your favorite gangsta wanna be or Rosie O'Donald??


ok..ok..I'm kidding about rosie...kinda....:)

Al

She needs a permit for her fork. Or at least somebody to get her to keep it in the holster.

[eriksat1]

I think what they are against is the high cost of the training, the permit is only $50. The thing is they want to jack the mandatory training sky high so most won't do it. The same way IL. wants to raise the cost of ammo, guns are ok but pay $100+ for a box of shells. I believe in training, but does the instructor need to make $10k for giving a 4 hour class? By me they wanted $200 for the class with actual shooting of the hand gun training.

[Chode2235]

I think what they are against is the high cost of the training, the permit is only $50. The thing is they want to jack the mandatory training sky high so most won't do it. The same way IL. wants to raise the cost of ammo, guns are ok but pay $100+ for a box of shells. I believe in training, but does the instructor need to make $10k for giving a 4 hour class? By me they wanted $200 for the class with actual shooting of the hand gun training.

Thats like that old Chris Rock bit, about making bullets so expensive you know that if someone gets shot they absolutely deserved it...

[Further North]

Hard to believe an organization that preaches safe gun handling would fight a few simple hours of basic gun training. Mind boggling really.

They're not fighting the class itself...they are fighting the idea that you have to take a class to participate in a constitutional right.

It's an important distinction...

You don't have to take a four hour class to be allowed to exercise free speech....

[SGPopp]

They're not fighting the class itself...they are fighting the idea that you have to take a class to participate in a constitutional right.

It's an important distinction...

You don't have to take a four hour class to be allowed to exercise free speech....

No, but you have to take a class to drive a car and for that matter, take a class to be a building inspector. I'm willing to bet our forfathers never expected those "rights" to come into play.

I think the NRA could get on the other side of this and make themselves look much better. Offer reduced membership rates for those completing the CCW course. Offer courses, at reduced rates to members and non-members. Be proactive instead of screaming suppresion. Use this as a way to educate people, increase involvment and push the cause further.

[AllenW]

Might help to remember that the NRA is fighting for your right to exercise the second amendment, organizations that are trying to remove that right have said they will do this bit by bit if need be.

The NRA is trying to stop them, extreme right versus extreme left, both using extreme measures.

So while the NRA says no restrictions at all to try and keep the anti's from gaining a foothold, in the 40+ years I've been a member, at no time have they ever said that you should not be trained to use a weapon correctly, in fact they are probably the biggest proponent of gun safety classes out there.

Taking one of their classes might give a far better look into gun safety and self defense/carry than reading a newspaper article...imho

Al

[phowler]

No, but you have to take a class to drive a car and for that matter, take a class to be a building inspector. I'm willing to bet our forfathers never expected those "rights" to come into play.

I think the NRA could get on the other side of this and make themselves look much better. Offer reduced membership rates for those completing the CCW course. Offer courses, at reduced rates to members and non-members. Be proactive instead of screaming suppresion. Use this as a way to educate people, increase involvment and push the cause further.

Neither driving a car or inspecting buildings are rights that were guaranteed to us in the constitution. As others have said, the NRA is not against people taking classes. What they are and always have been against is the fact that our right to bear arms has been under attack for years and is only now being returned to us in pieces.

Bottom line is this; there should never have been a need for this discussion as the 2nd Ammendment was written long before any of us were around.

[gonfishn95]

If interested one at Lakewoods (Cable) Friday 11-04 eve, $50 Utah class good for WI and includes 22 states, Seen this one offered around the area, classroom only but might be worth while.
I think what they are against is the high cost of the training, the permit is only $50. The thing is they want to jack the mandatory training sky high so most won't do it. The same way IL. wants to raise the cost of ammo, guns are ok but pay $100+ for a box of shells. I believe in training, but does the instructor need to make $10k for giving a 4 hour class? By me they wanted $200 for the class with actual shooting of the hand gun training.

[wallymn99]

but there are guys like S larson that think your wife shouldnt have the right to protect herself..... What, she cant unarm a man without worry? S Larson can!!

i know, it astounds me.. I have practiced Krav Maga for years and am training in how to deal with an attacker with a weapon... is it going to work???? doubt it.. each situation is different. All training can do, even for a SEAL is help, but there is no gauanty. get 3-4 thugs surprise you and i don't care who you are. i would rather have a gun than any of my years of Krav to be honest. Krav just gives me the advantage over an unarmed attacker.

And all this worry from some about nothing. 48 states have had CCW and none of them turned into the wild west. Relax people, the good guys will be carrying.

[Further North]

They're not fighting the class itself...they are fighting the idea that you have to take a class to participate in a constitutional right.

It's an important distinction...

You don't have to take a four hour class to be allowed to exercise free speech....

No, but you have to take a class to drive a car and for that matter, take a class to be a building inspector. I'm willing to bet our forfathers never expected those "rights" to come into play.

That's because neither is a constitutionally guaranteed right. It really is that simple.

[Further North]

Relax people, the good guys will be carrying.

...because the bad guys already are, and have been for some time.

[SGPopp]

That's because neither is a constitutionally guaranteed right. It really is that simple.

That's exactly my point. Society and our legislators have to create laws and promote civility based on a doument that is over 200 years old. There are certain rights that while true, may not be absolute. This does not mean I think the Bill of Rights needs to go away. I'm saying it's hard to be absolute in our current society.

Per the Bill of Rights I am permitted to freedom of speech. However, accoridng to the state of WI I can't send a text message to my wife while driving. This right is no longer absolute. Same would apply to yelling fire in a crowded theater.

Don't get me wrong on this FN. I think we are on the same page. I just really think the NRA could have been on the front end of this and made themselves look much better. Now they look like a group that's complaining about a law they aren't happy with. If they are in favor of gun education, which I think they are, they would have embraced the required training.

[SGPopp]

...because the bad guys already are, and have been for some time.

Bad guys having guns will never go away. Neither will crime. Period.

Everyday people wake up and decide they don't feel like working anymore and it's easier to steal or sell drugs or prostitute or whatever. It's been this way since the dawn of time and will never cease.

Whenever the FBI shuts down a Mafia kingpin or a Columbian drug lord, that vacancy is quickly filled.

[drinkerul]

That's because neither is a constitutionally guaranteed right. It really is that simple.

It is currently a constitutional right, but nothing is guaranteed. The last time it went before the Supreme Court one vote separated the outcome. Also it was based on punctuation of where a comma should go. You need to read the case and realize that depending on the layout of the Supreme Court, it may not workout that way next time around. To behave like it is your right to be a gun wielding idiot with no training is a sure way to flip the court the next time around. Your type of statements are a bigger threat to gun ownership than anyone on the far left.

[Further North]

...because the bad guys already are, and have been for some time.

Bad guys having guns will never go away. Neither will crime. Period.

So we should just roll over and let them do what they want with us?

That is one - just one - of the many reasons why we should never, ever, consent to have our guns taken away. The government won't protect us...

If you think they will, have a look here at one government did: http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2011/10/world-war-ii-the-holocaust/100170/

Careful - Holocaust pics - not for the faint of heart, nor those who think governments will protect them....which is another reason why we should never give up our guns...those people did....

[Further North]

It is currently a constitutional right, but nothing is guaranteed. The last time it went before the Supreme Court one vote separated the outcome. Also it was based on punctuation of where a comma should go. You need to read the case and realize that depending on the layout of the Supreme Court, it may not workout that way next time around. To behave like it is your right to be a gun wielding idiot with no training is a sure way to flip the court the next time around. Your type of statements are a bigger threat to gun ownership than anyone on the far left.

I've read the law,at length, and listened to considered opinions from people with JDs about it.

...and I've go bad news for you "guest": I'm nowhere near right, politically. Trying to stereotype this subject into a left vs. right political discussion is a mistake...a grave one....

You need to take your own advice and brush up on the law; and stop with aggressive, insulting tactics to try to demean people who've got both the law and facts on their side.....

...and you should have the stones to at least post under your real name, or regular log on name if you're going to pollute the board with junk like that.

[Buck Snort]

To behave like it is your right to be a gun wielding idiot with no training is a sure way to flip the court the next time around. Your type of statements are a bigger threat to gun ownership than anyone on the far left.

You seem to be wielding a keyboard around like one just fine.

[drinkerul]

You seem to be wielding a keyboard around like one just fine.

You are hiding from the facts, I am guessing most of you have never even read the Bill of Rights, let alone the court cases that have discussed many of them. If being aware of facts and being educated on them is acting like an idiot to you, I can see the disconnect, but hey you are named "snort" and that is kind of entertaining.

[drinkerul]

I've read the law,at length, and listened to considered opinions from people with JDs about it.

...and I've go bad news for you "guest": I'm nowhere near right, politically. Trying to stereotype this subject into a left vs. right political discussion is a mistake...a grave one....

You need to take your own advice and brush up on the law; and stop with aggressive, insulting tactics to try to demean people who've got both the law and facts on their side.....

...and you should have the stones to at least post under your real name, or regular log on name if you're going to pollute the board with junk like that.

You should have the stones to post your real name as well. Also some of us do not need friends with JD's to read the law. LOL.