View Full Version : Wife not happpy with Lund lawsuit
kaptinfish
12-08-2011, 08:26 PM
Hi everyone,
I have plans to purchase a new boat this spring and the wife has given me the green light. I have been talking a lot about Lunds boats and had my eye on a couple different models. She must listen more then I give her credit for because she showed me an article why I won't be getting a Lund. http://www.startribune.com/business/134853523.html (http://www.startribune.com/business/134853523.html)
I am not sure whether this is a frivolous lawsuit or not? I was hoping someone here might work or have worked in one of the factories and could shed some light and help me convince the wife. Has anyone heard anything else about this lawsuit? Thanks in advance for any help.
Kaptinfish
walleye.bill
12-08-2011, 09:00 PM
Have not heard anything of this and although it is unfortunate if true the quality of the boat is not affected by it.
tugger
12-08-2011, 09:07 PM
The Federal Government telling you who and who you can't hire.
T Mac
12-08-2011, 10:15 PM
"Kaptinfish".... first time poster. Welcome to the best walleye site in the business.
Yah...this news broke about 8 days ago.
I doubt anybody has much to add except conjecture, at this point.
Rich S
12-09-2011, 03:11 AM
Wouldn't that just be more reason to buy a Lund...:D Sorry Juls
manitobawalleye
12-09-2011, 05:10 AM
I would think the ratio's are no different at any other boat builder.
Shellback
12-09-2011, 05:33 AM
Better start looking at other brands! Number 1 priority is to keep the spouse happy.
chainwall
12-09-2011, 05:43 AM
I wouldn't jump to conclusions until the thing is settled. Could be a lot of lawyer speak right now.
As a little background, I worked in the office at the Lund factory until 2007. The article in the Star Tribune (and the complaint itself) may have merit, it also may not have any merit. During the period of time that the article discusses turning away the number of women (starting in Jan 2006), the marine industry was starting to contract, employees were being let go. Just a few years earlier (2004-2005), the New York Mills plant itself was making 10,000 + boats a year, there were two shifts and talk of running a 3rd.
However, in just a few short years, the NYM plant was down to 1 shift (and this was after the Canadian Lund plant had closed and moved production down to NYM). Then in 2009 (a few years later), the Crestliner plant in Little Falls, MN closed down and that production eventually moved to NYM. So, what used to be 3 plants making aluminum boats had now been consolidated into one. The article (or the Labor Department's complaint) seems to be hanging on a stray statistic that 200 women applicants were turned down. However, it doesn't say anything about how many total applicants were turned down over this difficult period of time.
In addition, the entry level plant positions ususally went to go work in the 'assembly' department (at least it was while I was there). You should understand that while there is some automation in making a Lund boat, the process is still very labor intensive. The 'assembly' department is loud (due to riveting) and back-breaking work. Picture a worker underneath a boat holding a riveting buck while someone above you rivets hundreds of rivets into the hull for hours on end. The reverberating noise is almost unsustainable if it were not for double ear protection. This isn't to say that a female worker could not physically perform the work as there were some women working in that department. Back in the day, there was more employee turnover in this department simply because of the nature of the work involved.
I can't speak for current hiring practices, but while I was there, there were dozens of female workers who worked throughout the plant. If you can schedule some time to go to the Lund plant (now called the Brunswick NYM Plant), I would do that (and bring your wife along). Everyone who goes through that tour will appreciate the level of work and skill that goes into making a Lund boat. Along the tour, take notice of the women who do work there and work hard in providing fishermen a quality product.
LLewellin
12-09-2011, 07:32 AM
As a little background, I worked in the office at the Lund factory until 2007. The article in the Star Tribune (and the complaint itself) may have merit, it also may not have any merit. During the period of time that the article discusses turning away the number of women (starting in Jan 2006), the marine industry was starting to contract, employees were being let go. Just a few years earlier (2004-2005), the New York Mills plant itself was making 10,000 + boats a year, there were two shifts and talk of running a 3rd.
However, in just a few short years, the NYM plant was down to 1 shift (and this was after the Canadian Lund plant had closed and moved production down to NYM). Then in 2009 (a few years later), the Crestliner plant in Little Falls, MN closed down and that production eventually moved to NYM. So, what used to be 3 plants making aluminum boats had now been consolidated into one. The article (or the Labor Department's complaint) seems to be hanging on a stray statistic that 200 women applicants were turned down. However, it doesn't say anything about how many total applicants were turned down over this difficult period of time.
In addition, the entry level plant positions ususally went to go work in the 'assembly' department (at least it was while I was there). You should understand that while there is some automation in making a Lund boat, the process is still very labor intensive. The 'assembly' department is loud (due to riveting) and back-breaking work. Picture a worker underneath a boat holding a riveting buck while someone above you rivets hundreds of rivets into the hull for hours on end. The reverberating noise is almost unsustainable if it were not for double ear protection. This isn't to say that a female worker could not physically perform the work as there were some women working in that department. Back in the day, there was more employee turnover in this department simply because of the nature of the work involved.
I can't speak for current hiring practices, but while I was there, there were dozens of female workers who worked throughout the plant. If you can schedule some time to go to the Lund plant (now called the Brunswick NYM Plant), I would do that (and bring your wife along). Everyone who goes through that tour will appreciate the level of work and skill that goes into making a Lund boat. Along the tour, take notice of the women who do work there and work hard in providing fishermen a quality product.
Very well said IMHO!
I went through the plant in 2008 before I purchased my first New Lund. I was very impressed and do recall quite a few women working through out. I then went down to talk to the main person, which was a women, for possible repairs for my boat that was in an accident and she was wonderful to work with. I think her name was Tammy but not sure. Since then I have talked to several customer parts service people that were women and they also have been great.
the big lake
12-09-2011, 08:09 AM
Better start looking at other brands! Number 1 priority is to keep the spouse happy.
I would have to agree with Shellback, better start looking at another brand.
Hot Runr Guy
12-09-2011, 08:25 AM
with regards to alternative brands, I hope your wife is willing to do her homework and contact other manufacturers, and determine their male/female employement ratio.
I have no clue what the numbers may be, but she might want you to purchase a hull from a manufacturer that actually employs LESS females than Lund.
Wish her luck with her search.
HRG
During the time period 2006-2007 there were labor force reductions at the plant, always a stressful time. Reductions were handled in such a way that allowed past employees to qualify for 'return to work education programs' for the past employees.
While factory layoffs are something nobody wants to see or experience, I thought it was good of the company to be aware of how it was handled would effect the opportunities for past employees to find other occupations. In rural MN companies like Lund can be a dominate employer for quite a large area. Not nearly as many opportunities as there are in a larger population center.
Buck Snort
12-09-2011, 09:25 AM
Tell her to get back in the garage and paint those jigs...you're buying the Lund. :grin:
Buck Snort
12-09-2011, 09:30 AM
I have to agree with Brunswick on this one. It's their company.
T Mac
12-09-2011, 10:00 AM
As a little background, I worked in the office at the Lund factory until 2007. The article in the Star Tribune (and the complaint itself) may have merit, it also may not have any merit. During the period of time that the article discusses turning away the number of women (starting in Jan 2006), the marine industry was starting to contract, employees were being let go. Just a few years earlier (2004-2005), the New York Mills plant itself was making 10,000 + boats a year, there were two shifts and talk of running a 3rd.
However, in just a few short years, the NYM plant was down to 1 shift (and this was after the Canadian Lund plant had closed and moved production down to NYM). Then in 2009 (a few years later), the Crestliner plant in Little Falls, MN closed down and that production eventually moved to NYM. So, what used to be 3 plants making aluminum boats had now been consolidated into one. The article (or the Labor Department's complaint) seems to be hanging on a stray statistic that 200 women applicants were turned down. However, it doesn't say anything about how many total applicants were turned down over this difficult period of time.
In addition, the entry level plant positions ususally went to go work in the 'assembly' department (at least it was while I was there). You should understand that while there is some automation in making a Lund boat, the process is still very labor intensive. The 'assembly' department is loud (due to riveting) and back-breaking work. Picture a worker underneath a boat holding a riveting buck while someone above you rivets hundreds of rivets into the hull for hours on end. The reverberating noise is almost unsustainable if it were not for double ear protection. This isn't to say that a female worker could not physically perform the work as there were some women working in that department. Back in the day, there was more employee turnover in this department simply because of the nature of the work involved.
I can't speak for current hiring practices, but while I was there, there were dozens of female workers who worked throughout the plant. If you can schedule some time to go to the Lund plant (now called the Brunswick NYM Plant), I would do that (and bring your wife along). Everyone who goes through that tour will appreciate the level of work and skill that goes into making a Lund boat. Along the tour, take notice of the women who do work there and work hard in providing fishermen a quality product.
Hey buddy... long time no see! :)
LLewellin
12-09-2011, 10:16 AM
To not purchase a boat from any manufacture based on one article in a newspaper seems way premature at this point. IMHO
the big lake
12-09-2011, 10:32 AM
To not purchase a boat from any manufacture based on one article in a newspaper seems way premature at this point. IMHO
Obviously they wouldn’t publish an article like this without having some merit, or there probably would be another lawsuit. It would be sad if it was true, are we not in the year 2011?
doubleheader
12-09-2011, 10:41 AM
So let's say statistically it is true. Are they to hire exactly at the same ratio? If not, how much are they allowed to deviate? If they hire a higher % of women is the fed going to jump in and tell them to hire more men?
cbprov
12-09-2011, 03:37 PM
Just dealt with a lady in the warranty department at New york Mills she was great
Blackmacs
12-09-2011, 10:55 PM
Obviously they wouldn’t publish an article like this without having some merit, or there probably would be another lawsuit. It would be sad if it was true, are we not in the year 2011?
You must not read the startribune much. There isn't much merit in that entire fish wrap.
Litchfieldwalleye
12-10-2011, 12:33 AM
I applied for a managers job at the local Victorias Secret. I think I was turned down... because I'm a man. Seriously, I just want the best workers available to rivet my baby - if it happens to be a ham-fisted Minnesotan lady, so be it.
Eric_CO
12-10-2011, 07:19 AM
So let's say statistically it is true. Are they to hire exactly at the same ratio? If not, how much are they allowed to deviate? If they hire a higher % of women is the fed going to jump in and tell them to hire more men?
Not exactly. There is a formula based on the demographics in their community.
No the feds would not do that. There is not a history of men being discrimated against that legislation had to correct.
Lund is probably in this position because of adverse impact. They can either remedy the situation as is recommended by the agency, they can validate the hiring criteria, and/or they can stop doing business with the government.
I'm guessing that they will still make a profit by doing business with the government which is why they will continue to have that agency's oversight of their hiring statistics.
jigngrub
12-10-2011, 07:49 AM
Those women need to apply at a Sarah Lee bakery or something... boats is mans work!
the big lake
12-10-2011, 08:06 AM
You must not read the startribune much. There isn't much merit in that entire fish wrap.
That might be true if the Tribune was the only paper or TV that ran the story. I also saw the story on Kare 11, KSTP and also other paper publications. All being said, I think it's sad if it's true and if they are found in the wrong, guess what, you will all be paying more for your next Lund that you might buy.
SteveJ
12-10-2011, 10:50 AM
I have to agree with Brunswick on this one. It's their company.
Not sure what you are siding wint Brunswick on yet, but the EEOC has been around fo ra long time. Brunswick apparently is a federal contractor, which gives teh EEOC the opportunity to demand a lot of information about their employment demographics and hiring demographics without any formal complaints from individuals.
In terms if it being Brunswick's company, that statement would apply to all companies but it doesn't give any the right to violate federal law. When you agree to be a federal contractor you agree to be proactive in the area of Equal Employment Opportunity.
Those women need to apply at a Sarah Lee bakery or something... boats is mans work!
:horsepoop: :bang-bang: :ban: :howdy:
Jack G
12-10-2011, 01:28 PM
kaptinfish
You have my sympathy, on multiple levels.
Jack
Hi everyone,
I have plans to purchase a new boat this spring and the wife has given me the green light. I have been talking a lot about Lunds boats and had my eye on a couple different models. She must listen more then I give her credit for because she showed me an article why I won't be getting a Lund. http://www.startribune.com/business/134853523.html (http://www.startribune.com/business/134853523.html)
I am not sure whether this is a frivolous lawsuit or not? I was hoping someone here might work or have worked in one of the factories and could shed some light and help me convince the wife. Has anyone heard anything else about this lawsuit? Thanks in advance for any help.
Kaptinfish
It is simple. Lund(Brunswick) has enjoined itself to the federal government. They entered into that agreement with full knowledge of its' commitment and requirements.
Now, the federal government finds them(Lund/Brunswick) faulting in the contract.
Like me, you've options. The Lund/Brunswick connection ties itself not only to the federal government, but has promoted some outboard manufacturing to China.
Voting does not stop in November.
the big lake
12-11-2011, 06:53 AM
It is simple. Lund(Brunswick) has enjoined itself to the federal government. They entered into that agreement with full knowledge of its' commitment and requirements.
Now, the federal government finds them(Lund/Brunswick) faulting in the contract.
Like me, you've options. The Lund/Brunswick connection ties itself not only to the federal government, but has promoted some outboard manufacturing to China.
Voting does not stop in November.
Well said.
harleymike
12-11-2011, 07:01 AM
ok. It shouldnt be about how many women. It should be about hireing the right person. If that happens too be mostly men then too bad for the women.
jigngrub
12-11-2011, 08:37 AM
:horsepoop: :bang-bang: :ban: :howdy:
Yeah, I know...
I can tell y'all exactly why they're doing it, women in a predominantly male work force are a distraction which can be a safety hazard... and although the women doing the job may be better at it and work and try harder than some of the men, it's not worth the distraction and production lost due to the distraction.
Another huge liability of women in a predominantly male work force is the possibility/probability of sexual harassment law suits. Lund could probably pay several federal discrimination suit fines for the cost of 1 sexual harassment case.
I like these guys!
Who wants to have a male waiter in short shorts and a tied up t-shirt serve them their hot wings on the next Hooters outing?
Yeah, I know...
I can tell y'all exactly why they're doing it, women in a predominantly male work force are a distraction which can be a safety hazard... and although the women doing the job may be better at it and work and try harder than some of the men, it's not worth the distraction and production lost due to the distraction.
Bawwhahahahahaha.................seriously. That is laughable.
jigngrub
12-11-2011, 09:40 AM
That is laughable.
Until you've had to deal with it.
I've had a few women on the construction site and they're always a distraction for the men. It doesn't matter what the women look like, nor does it matter if the men are married, the men will stop working when the woman passes by and they'll go out of their way to talk to the woman.
Anyone that has worked in the manufacturing, industrial, or building trade will know that distractions are a safety hazard... and accidents usually happen when a person is distracted. Working on a commercial/industrial construction site is more dangerous than trying to wipe your butt with a broken beer bottle by itself, throw in an unusual distraction and the risk factor is multiplied.
... but I wouldn't expect anyone that has worked in a field where mixed sexes are the norm to understand this.
Ruddiger
12-11-2011, 11:05 AM
Howdy,
Wow, seriously? Whats next, concerns about their menstrual cycle or having their finger on "the button"?
Its amazing that we can send women into space or have them stand up to the Soviets and terrorists as leaders of the free world (remember Bobby Sands) but we cant allow them to work an assembly line or a construction site.
Its pathetic that the collective consciousness of WC can get its panties in a ruffle (pardon the expression) over a Samsung bluetooth commercial that portrays all hunters as ignorant & inbred hillbillies, yet-when given the opportunity to prove them wrong-some idiot always jumps at the opportunity to be the exception that proves the rule.
If the guys on your work site cant resist the temptation to "make it rain" when they work along side the opposite sex, its probably a fair statement to say that the women aren't the real problem.
Take care,
Ruddiger
rmfboat
12-11-2011, 11:06 AM
buy a ranger with a yamaha. no lund or brunswick here.
jigngrub
12-11-2011, 11:28 AM
Howdy,
If the guys on your work site cant resist the temptation to "make it rain" when they work along side the opposite sex, its probably a fair statement to say that the women aren't the real problem.
Take care,
Ruddiger
Uh... we're talking about construction workers here, if we were the upperclass more respectable type we wouldn't be bustin' our humps out in the mud and blazing sun.
Also there's quite a few construction workers that either aren't that smart or just don't give a **** that will say off color things to women on the construction site to impress or amuse their male coworkers, no matter how much you tell them not to. I've had to fire more than one good worker because of this to avoid a sexual harassment suit.
Maybe I should just hire all women... or maybe women and mute and blind males?
So why do you think Lund would discriminate against women? Maybe the company is run by a bunch of gay guys with a deep dislike toward women?... or maybe the allegations are completely unfounded and all 200 women were just feeling crabby at the time?
billfish1984
12-11-2011, 11:57 AM
This might be of interest:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_roles_in_the_World_Wars
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/women_WW2.htm
2.2 million women worked in manufacturing specific to the war effort during World War II. Making things like tanks, fighter planes, and destroyers. Probably they could work on some little fishing boats.
jigngrub
12-11-2011, 12:09 PM
This might be of interest:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_roles_in_the_World_Wars
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/women_WW2.htm
2.2 million women worked in manufacturing specific to the war effort during World War II. Making things like tanks, fighter planes, and destroyers. Probably they could work on some little fishing boats.
Yup, and they did a darn fine job too!
... but that was way back before sexual harrassment suits and political correctness were invented. You could whistle at a woman that passed a construction site and nothing would be thought of it... and she might have even smiled at you for doing it.
... and most of the men were overseas fighting the war.
Today is a completely different world, it would be nice if it was a perfect world... but it's far from that.