Labrador not retrieving game from the ground

[NeilD]

Can anyone assist with some advice

I have a 19 Month old Labrador that will not retrieve game from the ground, but she will retrieve pheasants that have been shoot over a river and land in the water with no problems, she will retrieve dummy's from the ground and water, I also have a dummy with a pheasant pelt stitched to it which she will retrieve from the ground and also a large bunch of pheasant wings that she will also retrieve.

Thanks Neil

[walleyejim1216]

She probably got her but kicked by a crippled pheasant!

[NeilD]

No she has not been caught by a pricked or running bird, if this had happened I would have had an understanding what the problem was.

[JJ Scully]

What training does the dog have? It sounds like the dog knows what to do but is not doing it. Sounds more like a training and obedience issue. You may want to read up on force fetching.

[NeilD]

What training does the dog have? It sounds like the dog knows what to do but is not doing it. Sounds more like a training and obedience issue. You may want to read up on force fetching.

I have spent a great deal since she was 10 Months old on training, also from March to October 2011 I was going once a week to gun dog training with her, she works very well to the whistle and will not run in when you shoot a bird unto you send her for it, but if the bird is on the land she will just push it with her nose or move it with her paws and come back without the bird, but if the bird is in water she will retrieve it.
One of the shoots that I go to has a drive over a river and any birds that fall in the river she will retrieve them with no issues, but any pheasants that fall on the ground by the river she will not, even though she may have retrieved 4 or 5 from the water just beforehand, as this is her first season and I have been very careful to only send her for dead birds and she has not been caught by a pricked or running bird, also both her parents are very good working dogs.

[JJ Scully]

That is what I thought you are comanding her to retrieve and she is not doing it. Look into force fetch if you tell the dog to get the bird it should. It knows what to do but you are not forcing it to do what you tell it to. Force fetching is not something I would do myself. I would recommend an experienced pro that knows what he is doing. If you want a truly finished dog it is necessary sometimes

[NeilD]

That is what I thought you are comanding her to retrieve and she is not doing it. Look into force fetch if you tell the dog to get the bird it should. It knows what to do but you are not forcing it to do what you tell it to. Force fetching is not something I would do myself. I would recommend an experienced pro that knows what he is doing. If you want a truly finished dog it is necessary sometimes

Thanks very much for your input and suggestions, I have thought about Force fetching, but also as you have mentioned it is something that I did not want to resort to, I do not know if you can shed some light on this but I do not understand why she will retrieve from water and not from the land, I send her for the birds in the water just the same as I do for the ones on the ground, the thing is it is not as thought she will not retrieving at all as she will from the water.

Thanks, Neil

[WallyNut]

Your dog retrieves from water and fetches dummies because she feels like it not because you gave her a job to do and she has to complete it. Force breaking makes it a job. It takes some time to force break to retrieve but is time well spent. I used the ear pinch method on my dogs. Force breaking sounds worse that it is.

[NeilD]

Your dog retrieves from water and fetches dummies because she feels like it not because you gave her a job to do and she has to complete it. Force breaking makes it a job. It takes some time to force break to retrieve but is time well spent. I used the ear pinch method on my dogs. Force breaking sounds worse that it is.

Thanks for the input, it may sound stupid but can you advise where I can find some info on exactly what is required to complete force breaking correctly, as this is something I have not used in the past.

[Phil T]

I used to have a Brittany that would only retrieve if the bird landed where I couldn't easily get to them. That included water, really dense brush, etc. He'd just sit by them or if wounded, sit with his front foot on them until I grabbed them. I didn't worry about it because he fetched the birds I couldn't get, and he found so many.
I think his first retrieve of a sharptail grouse (lots of loose feathers) took the joy out of retrieving for him.

[wheels]

Thanks for the input, it may sound stupid but can you advise where I can find some info on exactly what is required to complete force breaking correctly, as this is something I have not used in the past.


http://dobbsdogs.com/library/retrievers/index.html

Trained Retrieve I and II should cover it all

[WallyNut]

Here is a good source of information:

http://www.deltawaterfowl.org/hunting/dogs/forcebreak.php

Just take your time. It's a process not for instant gratification.

[NeilD]

Thanks to everyone for all the advice, I am also pleased to say that she picked her first pheasant today after a great deal of encouragement and getting her excited, which I have done many times in the past, I also probably looked like a big tit and I am sure that there were a few comments of what is he on, but it worked and she did pick a bird from a beck with not so much water in, when she brought it out I got her all excited with a great deal of praise and throw it back in just on the bank side and let he run in and she picked it again, at the end of the next drive a got a small hen pheasant and started waving it in front of her face and getting her excited, again something I have also done many times, I then throw it a short distance letting her run in and she again picked it and brought it back, but dropped it just before she got to me, but I can work on this at least she is now starting to retrieve from the ground, in the afternoon I tried her with a partridge by throwing it a short distance 4 times and she picked it each time, the 5 time I sat her down and again throw it a short distance and gave her a formal retrieve, she went straight to the bird and picked it, I did this 4 more times and she picked it each time, I tried her again on the last drive with a **** pheasant and she again picked it, each time she is dropping the birds short of me but as said I can work on this, also each time she retrieved she was not picking the birds in what you would say was the best way, it was either by a wing, leg, neck and sometimes by the breast, but she is starting to pick and I am sure it will get better, I am out again tomorrow so we will see how it goes.

I think one of the problems would also be is that I was spoilt with my last dog, as she picked a bird the very first time I went out with her when she was just over 12 Months old and took no encouragement at all to do it, but each dog is different and I was also running out of ideas.

[houndog]

I've bred, raised and trained dogs for over 35 years. Force fetching is probably the best thing for your dog at this time. However if you aren't in the mood to invest dollars with a pro trainer or you don't want to do it yourself I'd get creative. Try forcing her to watch another dog make the retreive while she's on a leash. Try to have her come a close second on the retreive and finally make sure she's first to the bird but with a little competition on her tail. Dogs can be a lot like people in that many don't like to be second fiddle. The above will require a freind with a dependable well trained, controlled dog with patience and above all a good nature. Don't let this turn into a fight, just enough competition to break an old habit...

Good Lick!

Houndog

[Rockstar]

My Lab did the same thing until I took her to a European Pheasent Hunt! She over ran one of the downed birds & when she turned around there was another lab going after the same bird! My dog felt the competition & picked that dead bird! From that point on she has retrieved for me on land & water! Shoot Straight

[2Labs]

Congratulations on your progress to date. Sounds like you have a good hunting partner in the making!! What a wonderful bonding experience -- training your own dog AND hunting with it.

[NeilD]

Hi 2 Labs, thinks for the positive input and information.

Just an up-date, was out again on Saturday and on the first peg I had two pheasant and she was itching to go for them, but I held her back to the end of the drive, as soon as it finished I pointed her in the direction of one, she must have had it marked as she went straight to it and picked it quite good and brought it back to me, I then sent her for the second but she had some problems in finding it, but she did and again brought it back, she dropped both birds just short of me, but I will work on fixing this and it's good to see her now retrieving from the ground, I sent her on 3 more retrieves during the rest of the day and she brought them all back, only seven shooting days left now before the end of the season so there is still time for her to get more practice in.

[houndog]

There's not a lot more gratifying than watching a good bird dog come around. Just keep in mind that there will always be setbacks. Thank's what makes the process so challenging and rewarding. One thing I tell my customers... There is really no such thing as a training session. Whenever you, a family member or anyone for that member is around your dog he or she is being trained!

[ptm]

This is a very standard easy to follow book on force fetch and ecollar work; "Tri-Tronics Retriever Training Book."