Taking 2 kids to Canada, any advise

[MK]

I'm looking for comments/advise; here's the situation.

A friend with a 11 year old son recently passed away and at the funeral his mother said " I'm going to need help raising him" refering to the son. I told her I'd be glad to help and plan to do anything I can.

This is the first year I'll be taking my son (same age) to Canada and I am considering asking to see if the other boy wants to go. His father was an outdoorsman. We will be boating in to a lodge for a 5 day package deal. I'll probably foot the bill for him, but this isn't a burden.

I guess what I'm wondering about is: 1. Crossing the border with someone else's kid, and 2. Keeping my own sanity if I decide to do this. There'll be about 6-7 guys in the group, including the kids. Our fishing group has been going for over 15 years without any kids. Am I imposing on the regular fishing buddies by bringing along another kid? They know my son and don't have a problem with him at all. I haven't asked them about it yet but I think they'll at least say its ok, especially considering the situation, but would this bother other guys? They are good kids, mind well, both honor roll students, both like to fish, but they are still kids.

Any advise appreciated. I'm worrying about taking on more than I can handle and may need to schedule another trip by myself afterwards to relax.

[mac]

First of all, I commend you for what you are doing for the two boys.

You need a notarized letter from your wife that it is OK for you to take your son out of the country and at least the same from the other boy's mother although some additional documentation like a letter from the police chief in you city and be sure to have the boy's mother avaliable at her phone at the time you will be crossing. This may seem like overkill, but it beats waiting at the border for hours trying to clear things up.

The boys should have some camp tasks assigned so that they are contributing members of the group and not an additional burdon on the group. They need to be completely self sufficient in all aspects of the trip, because if you are "carrying" them, then you are not able to contribute as much to the group yourself.

[House]

MK

I'm not sure about the hassle you might get leaving the country with other peoples kids.

We take kids with us camping on an island opening weekend on the Turtle Flambeau Flowage in Wisconsin. It's only a long weekend but the conditions are usually cold and wet. The ages was eight years to fourteen for the five kids. They handle it great.

I expect you will find they will hold thier own and make you proud. This will be a big adventure both will want to repeat. Let em know that future trips depend on the outcome of this one, just let them know what you expect from them.

As far as your friends go. Let them know they won't have to babysit or modify their behavior for the two. Any thing you could expose those kids to in the baddest fishing camp is nothing compared to what they can see on MTV. You have the whole trip home to reprogram them for mommy. Besides two eleven year olds are two fresh mids that haven't heard all the stories and will bennifit from all that collective knowledge you friends have.

House

[IaJoe]

Mac has very good advice.Take birth certificates of both kids and for sure have the mother of the other kid by a phone.My brother got held up at the border for 2 hrs til they could get a hold of his boys friends mother.They tracked her down at work and would not let him cross til they spoke with the mother.We take our 3 kids all the time and have no problems with the kids,just remember,if your uptight,they get uptight and no one has fun....Relax.

[Spoonbill]

Ditto on the birth certificates.....we got held up for several hours two years ago because I did not have my son's birth certificate...finally let us through.

[fishandhunt1]

MK I think that is a darn good thing you are planning with these 2 boys as I know what it is like trying to grow up with no father as my dad passed away at the age of 37 and I was 8 years old at that time. I do not think any of your buds would go against you on this deal, heck they will probally help ya with it. I know I would if I were one of them. Do not know much about the border thing but maybe some thing from a lawyer or maybe a states attorney would save ya alot of hassle at the border!!!! Any how take them boys fishen it will be something they will never forget and ya might have more fun than what ya realize with them. I know I really like fishing with my son and his 2 buds they are in that 15 year old range. Have a GREAT TIME!!!!!!! Larry

[Riceburner]

MK--my hat's off to you too for taking this on...I doubt it will be a mistake with the good advice given here already....about the boy's jobs--we have found this to be very important with everyone--almost everyone wants to do their share of the work (or we don't invite them back)--so give everyone a job-and they will feel good to sit down when they are done. The boys may need some time apart too, if someone else would take one of them for a part of a day. They may not have the drive to fish long days--so be willing to adjust your schedule. Good fishin--make sure to get some pictures and let us know how it goes....

[Dirt Track Fisherman]

Have fun man,We had a problem come up with one of our boats in our group and the guy asked if we would take his grandson with us while he went back to get the problem fixed we said ok we thought be a hour or 2 but it turned out to be all day(his grandpa got stranded on the way back in ) but what a day it was fun fun fun and the boy had a blast you know how when you were little and the grown up's would pull your leg well it was our turn lol,we had him believing Earnest T Bass lived in the woods of Canada and he make a hootie hoot sound just a few seconds latter a loon went off and the boy said i hear him,he ask is earnest T mean? we said he throws rocks but don't worry a family named the darlings live up here and they keep him moving,well he went home told his grandma this story and she proceeded to make him watch Andy Griffth and to this day he still says you got me but it was fun,so enjoy the trip and hope the young ones catch some biggens

[Spoonbill]

MK...One of the best things about taking the boys on a Canadian Trip is that the experience will stick with them forever, in ways that I did not even think about. My sons are in college/leaving high school now, but it amazes me how throughout elementary, middle, and high school, the trips that we have taken to Canada ended up influencing their learning and even choice of study in school. They are still enthusiastic about going to Canada and talk about our trips regularly. My graduating senior wants to go back to our favorite Canadian Lake as his "senior trip"! Many of the papers, projects, short stories, poetry, etc completed in school were somehow tied to Canadian fishing trips. Those trips starting in elementary school have influenced their interest in other outdoor activies/recreational pursuits and have probably kept them out of things that they shouldn't have gotten into. I guess what I am saying is that the positive experiences the young boys will have with you in Canada and the things they learn will stick with them for a lifetime. It doesn't get much better than that ! Have fun...
Russ

[MK]

Thanks to all for the advice and words of encouragement. You've helped me decide and while I'm sure there'll be a few moments of anxiety, I'm also sure there'll be mostly good times and good memories.

I think I'll start checking into cross-border rules and regs and mention it to his mother for her feelings. I know his dad would want him to go.

Thanks to all for the input. I'll let you know how it turns out.

[fishinnut]

Pick up a couple of those foam rod-savers that attach to the rod and save it should it be dropped overboard. Wish I had them when my son was younger. Would have saved me a few rods.

[Boots]

I took my two grandchildren to Canada a few years ago and had no documentation from my son or grandaughter. At the border the guard said "How do I know they are not kidnapped?" They let us through but the next year I took a picture of me with our grandchildren and also a statement from my son that I have athority to take them. Also you must have a insurance number from the parents to alow medical attention if necessary.

[wiley walleye]

Sounds like you have been doing this for awhile so you have it down. These are only suggestions after having gone for 30yrs of those trips to Canada and also a scout leader for 5yrs.
Don't beat the kids out on the water, if they want to go in let them. Give them some choices of where and what kind of fish at some given time. I like the idea of assigning chores. Start them now, on these trips we all chip in. If they or he has not cleaned a fish this is a good age. Drive the boat in safe open water. If fishin is slow and you know where any kind of fish is bitten, get them some action. Give the two boys a break from each other if you sense a need for it.

Many talked about crossing the border and you are going to check for sure what you need. You might consider a written approval from his mother to seek medical treatment if necessary. We even do this when we leave our teen son with our older daughter and we are gone. This takes care of that parent signature thing. Along with this, be double sure you have a good first aid kit.

Finally, do not assume anything with this kid, ask. Can you swim, how well, any allergies, any medication etc. You know yours but do not assume this kids level of knowledge is the same.
Finally Finally. This is not a judgement call but if your group drinks alcohol, what is this kids reaction to it and is it accepted in his home life.

I could tell a story with everyone of those suggestions. Great thing you are doing and also a great responsibilty.
You will give him an experience that will last a life time, guaranteed.
Good Fishin
Joe

[Scott Richardson]

I just want to say that I commend you on what you are doing. You are indeed a true friend to the man who passed and his wife. You are creating a memory for your son and the boy who lost his dad and for you too, and probably for every guy on the trip once they know the background. They will probably see it as the best trip they ever had just from watching the boys enjoy themselves.

Take a kid fishing for a lot of good reasons.
Scott Richardson

[Planocat]

Sounds like you'll have the trip of a lifetime. You will probably get a great deal out of the trip for yourself in addition to the boys. I only wish my boys could join me as they did in the old days. What memories we shared.

One thing to be aware of.....the regulations. Innocently, one of the visitors to the resort I visit each year was fined over $1,000 last year for overpossession. First time taking his son to Canada. They told him at the border that his son (15) didn't need a license. What they didn't tell him was that if he didn't have a license, he wasn't entitled to keep any fish. So, they were checked on the day they were leaving and he was 4 walleye and 4 northerns over his legal limit. $125 per fish + court costs + legal representation. Total bill.....$1600. Have a nice stay in Canada, thank you very much.

Just be aware.....and make your friends aware if you choose not to purchase a license for the boys. You sure don't want them fined in the process of showing the boys a great fishing time.

Planocat

[times two]

It's great that you're going to do this. My advice...make sure you
have meals that are 11 year old friendly, and make sure you have
meal times that will work too. And a good supply of snacks.

I think you will be ok since they can pal with each other. My father's group started me out in 1976 at the age of 12....I have gone every May since. Take the time to let them particpate...show them what you know...tell them stories of past trips....let them
drive the boat (have to check the new ontario regs on that though).

Have Fun!

[MK]

Again, thanks to all for the advice and comments. The trip is scheduled for the end of June and the boy's mother is still thinking about it: she is still coming to grips with her husband's death less than a month ago and the boy isn't aware of the plans.

I've realized that this trip would be for them more than me and there probably wouldn't be any 12 hour days in the boat like usual. The lodge has a small beach so they can swim plus some hiking trails. At this age the hard part is deciding exactly how much leash to let out.

I've printed out the replies and will keep the info handy for the appropriate time. I hope she decides to let him go but if not, there's next year. If she agrees it'll be kind of fun to gather up enough gear for all three. Messing with tackle and equipment is sort of like therapy.

[Peanut]

MK - as many have said, it's a good thing that you're doing. Often I think the "big boys" get as much enjoyment on these things as the real kids. There's nothing like being amazed by something for the first time, and as we get older, the closest we often come is indirectly through a kid's eyes. It's still powerful though.

As for the border - most has been covered - birth cert's for both, notarized consent letters for both, insurance info. - make sure the other boy has insurance - you'll know about your own. Make sure you have the full scoop on medications, medic alert info., allergies, etc. as has been posted.

Assuming the mom says yes, be sure you get the other guys' approval before asking the kid. Undoubtedly they'll be all for it, but it is always better to have been asked - then no one can feel like anyone's imposing, and no one can place any blame if all are agreed.

A couple of other points not raised yet - I would also ensure your boy is okay with this. Nothing would be worse for either of them than spending 5 days with someone they don't get along with. If your kid has concerns, justified or not, you'll need to work them out before taking the other boy.

You didn't mention if either boy could fish. It would be best if they could - then it is easier to help them out. Why waste a half day of a boy and an adult at a fly-in camp teaching someone how to cast, reel, whatever, when this could have been done at home. If they already know, great. If not, get them out in advance, so they can cast, reel, handle bait, net a fish, whatever. This'll also make them feel less stressed and more confident.

Lastly (sorry for going on so long) - try and scedule something with as many of the guys and the boys as possible, in advance. Doesn't even hafta be fishing-related (although a tackle-getting day would be great), just so the boys can meet the guys and vice-versa. It'll help the kids confidence and comfort, as everyone will have met - no strangers. You'd be surprised how quickly relationships start to form, and carry over onto your trip.

Again, a good thing, I hope you get the chance to make it work.

derrek.

"Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we're not.
In either case the idea is quite staggering"
- Arthur C. Clarke

[Ivy]

MK -

All great advice here! One thing you might want to do is to take a nearby Pre-Canada trip. It might be easier on everyone if you have a once through, before the " Big Trip"

Ivy

[happy]

Let us know how it works out.
I think it's a wonderfull thing you are wanting to do!!!