shutdown Lake Erie walleye fishing?

[Mr. Creosote]

According to the latest scuttlebutt the 2002 fry survival was practically nonexistant. This combined with the poor hatches of recent years does not look good.
When do we draw the line? When is it to late to stop the harvest? Remember the Atlantic cod fishery? They said it could'nt happen.

[Walleye Express]

Mr Creosote.
Unfortunetly, it doesn't fall on us to mold our own destiny as far as the walleye planting and harvest quota's are concerned.

And rather than point the finger at all or any of the DNR agencies on the Great lakes, we simply have to hope the loaded chamber in this game of Russian Walleye Roulet, don't bust a cap agains't our heads.

Quit a few years ago we had the Michigan DNR director come to our club Christmas party as a guest speaker. The theme of his talk was about what the future of the agency and the publics future part in it would be. He forsaw a time in the near future where clubs like the one I then belonged to, and other state and local interests would buy, raise, and plant most or all of the suplimental game fish species, with only the smallest of technical help from the DNR agencies.

Marinas, hotels, motels, resturants and anybody along or near the shores of the Great Lakes would benefit from this bounty, as they do now. The monitary needs for making sure these fish stocks got planted, would not be subject to agency allotments, budgets or allocations. There would be more than enough money from businesses who would benefit, not to mention the fishermen themselves who would open up and give generously.

I thought this was indeed a man of vision. And it all mad good sense. But the DNR is an agency well intrenched in its policys, attitudes and (by the book logic). This pipe dream by one visionary in the agency was just that. If this idea ever came back, I'd be the first one to write a check until it hurt. But don't hold your breath.

[Dinky]

I might as well start it:
OHIO should shut down the SNAGGING on the Maumee River in the spring!

[WalleyeWiz11]

Dinky, I don`t think shutting down the river will solve the problem.One bad hatch will for sure hurt the fishery for sure .If there is another bad hatch this year ,than I think the DNR will have some serious thinking to do. We have had bad hatches in the past only to have a super hatch the next.I think it is a little premature right now to talk about shutting the fishery down because of 1 bad year.Erie has a way of taking care of herself and has proved that over the years.
Capt`n Dwayne
WalleyeWiz Guide Service

[ETT]

We have a large number of walleyes that are just entering maturity (remember all those dinks 2 years ago). If we get even 1 good spawn out of those fish in the next 4 or 5 years, the lakes walleye population should be fine. Hopefully we'll get a couple good years out of them, and we can all complain about too many small fish.

Fishing the spawn in the river has little to do with the lake population as a very small percentage of the walleyes run up the rivers. It takes a good year on the reefs to get good trawler counts.

Mother nature saved thousands of walleyes lives last fall with all the wind and nasty weather during the late fall. I for one am not worried about the viability of Lake Erie's walleye population.

Good luck and come on Spring!!!

[Mr. Creosote]

Walleye Express,
Financing a walleye stocking program for Erie is a scary thought. I don't think that there is enough hatchery capacity to even make a dent on the numbers needed to make a significant differance on a population of that scale. I'll admit I'm just speculating but when one thinks of the numbers it would take, wow, I just don't think we could take up where nature leaves off on a scale so huge.
Yes, Erie has come back in the past but has'nt had the zebra's or gobies to contend with and the as yet undetermined effects these foreign invaders have had. It's possible that the gobies are eating the walleye spawn. That combined with a bad hatch/hatches could be devastating the walleye pops. One thing is certain, there has been a drastic decline in the catch. This has been discussed before but the recent fry dredge results were they are dredging 3, thats right,3 fry when they should be dredging 1000 have been so dismal.

[Joe]

Wow, sounds like such an amazingly good ideal. Do you think if they elliminated fishing the Maumee during the spawn where about 5% of the spawning fish go the whole system would turn around? How about a one fish limit with that fish having to be over 30"s? Would that result in better numbers? That limit would be lake wide of course, and should include all spawning rivers including the Detroit river. What do you think? Would that work? How about just closing the season from December 1, through say, June 15? That should allow all fish in the system to spawn without being harrassed. Or maybe 100% catch and release? Nothing better than showing ones intelligence by playing amateur fisheries biologist...

[Mr. Creosote]

ETT
Man, I sure hope your right. I was under the impression that the trawler results were like the worst in history. I seems so often when there is an eco. crash of some sort that it is on us before we know it. I mean, if we can overharvest the North Atlantic then Lake Erie should be no problem.
Naturally harvest is'nt the only factor concerning Erie but it's the only controllable one.
There are so many variables and unanswered questions. For example, What was determined about the so called "Dead Zone"?

[Walleye Express]

Creosote.
I worked for a couple years in conjunction with our club at our DNR rearing ponds, helping both feed the fry and seine the smolt for planting in the Saginaw Bay. One good year with a total pond acreage of about 10 acres we produced 1,800,000 2 inch smolts. The cost of buying the walleye fry, even from the DNR themselves would be minimal. You would of course have to hire a few full time employees to keep an eye on the little rascles as they grew. But this task isn't as mind bogleing as some people would have you believe.

[ETT]

I'm glad you called them the "so called" dead zones. Any time you have a significant thermocline, the water below that thermocline will become low in oxygen, if it lasts long enough. The thermoclines didn't get well entrenched this year because of all the wind, and the dead zones were minimal. Actually the normal fish kill that usually happens when the lake gets to the mid 70s was minimal this year as well. I haven't seen anything published about the dead zones, which makes me think (or at least hope) that there wasn't much negative to talk about.

[Mr Miller]

For many years old timers (now i include myself ) have said when the perch are many the walleyes are few, and when the walleyes are many the perch are few. Who knows maybe there is something to this wise tale. Maybe we should raise the perch limit to 40 and see if it helps the walleye population. after all perch also eat walleye fry, so im told.

[bigfish1965]

Smelt GORGE themselves on walleye fry. That was one of the reasons for stocking salmon on Lake Ontario. The salmon ate the smelt. It worked and The Bay of Quinte was the number one trophy walleye hole in North America.
I still can't believe a District allowing fishing for walleye during a spawn.

[Al]

Seems odd, that old little saying. This year from Spring to Summer we caught lots of eyes......and a ton of perch. I can't remember when I saw the fish cleaning houses so busy for so long. Yes, I'm talking western basin. Good eyes, great perch.

[Bob G2]

As ETT alluded to, successful walleye hatches do not occur every year, nor do they have to in order to maintain a good walleye fishery.
In general, you only see successful hatches every 3-4 years out of every 10 years. Perhaps Dr. Snyder may happen to come across this post and explain it more eloquently.

[Walleye Express]

Joe.
During the late 70's early 80's, when the Salmon populations on Lake Michigan were both in trouble because of to heavy a plants combined with the BKD/Biral Kidney Desease infections, many local steelheader clubs pen raised tens of thousands of salmon fry to smolt size, while the DNR got a handle on the many problems.

The pens, food and fry were bought with moneys from the coffers of these small local fishing clubs. The man power was supplied with volunteer labor from these same clubs. These fish were micro taged and found to be bigger, healthier and a very big part of future returns the than their sick brothers when caught 3 to 4 years later.

When the Betsie River was going through some tough times in the late 80's with the steelhead returns. An old closed DNR fish hatchery was taken over by a local fishing group and turned that rivers steelhead return around as well.

I'm not advocating mass dumping our fish-count troubles away. But when lack of money and man power seems to be part of the excuse for bad fish counts, why not get some local help?

[Buckeye]

Almost right on time with the first "Lake Erie walleye doomed" post of the year. I sure hope we get ice this winter as it seems winter boredom has set in....:-)

A spawn failure is not good news (unless it's lampreys) but also not the end of the world. Think about the "vintage" spawns of the past 20 years....there is only a handful and they have for the most part been the bread and butter of Lake Erie's walleye recruitment during that time. We just had a great one a couple springs ago.

There's always next year.

[rebs]

why does the canadian government still allow gil nets
I mean these guys come along and wipe out an entire school

rebs

[redbone]

interesting reading for all.
www.sg.ohio-state.edu/discus/

Bob Piette

[money boys]

>why does the canadian government still allow gil nets
>I mean these guys come along and wipe out an entire school
>
>rebs

and then the pwt fish for money not sport boys come along a wipe out another school

[ezmarc]

The PWT had about 140 boats out there for 3 days. There were thousands doing the same thing all year long. Gimme a break!

We routinely have bad hatches on Erie. That's the breaks of a weather dependent sustem like Erie. Last years hatch wasn't just bad it was terrible but it's not time to cry that the sky is falling. Like I've said before: Let the pro's (DNR/DOW) do their jobs. So far it's been working pretty well and if you want to cry then cry about gill nets.

[Buckeye]

I wondered how long it would take for someone to point a finger at tourney fishing. Incredible.

Looks like we are taking up right where we left off last year......armchair biologists predicting the future demise of walleye fishing in Lake Erie because they refuse to let fact alter their emotional opinions. All this despite abundant research and historical information (good and bad) that has guided the managers of Lake Erie to a remarkable record of making the right moves for the right reasons. Even with their record of success there are still people (mostly consumers of Lake Erie) that think they know better.....what a slap in the face.

How about instead a huge slap on the back and some grattitude instead? The Sea Grants (Ohio and others), ODNR, and other ministries and agencies have worked together to keep Lake Erie #1 despite what has amounted to trying to hit a moving target with all the changes this lake has gone thru over the past several decades. Thank you and keep up the good work.

I am going to paste a post and response from Ohio Sea Grant's information board ( http://www.sg.ohio-state.edu/discus/ ). This is the place where Lake Erie questions should be asked in the first place.....assuming you are after answers backed by science. Pay particular attention to the answers for questions 2 and 3.




By Toolman on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 01:09 pm:

In light of the apparent decline in the overall smallmouth bass population, and the poor hatch of both walleye and perch in 2002 I ask the following:

1) Do you think that additional restrictions on smallmouth daily or possesion limits and/or a limit on spawn fishing will be needed, and if so, when do you anticipate this happening?

2) Do you think that the walleye spawn fishing limit of (4) fish (introduced this past year)will dramatically help the overall fishery?

3) Typically, what does the impact of an entire year class of walleye and perch being wiped out, do to a fishery?

Can you talk a little about the compexities of governing a fishery such as Lake Erie, as related to it's shared areas between states and countries?


I realize that these are complicated issues involving several states and two countries. I am just looking for your opinion, if you can comment. Sorry for so many/long questions!
Thanks and keep up the great site,
Tim

By John Hageman, Stone Lab Mgr. on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 05:54 pm:


1)For the 2003 season, there will not be any changes to the smallmouth regulations, according to Roger Knight, Supervisor of the Lake Erie Fisheries Research Unit in Sandusky (ODNR,Div.of Wildlife). Adjustments could be made in the future if current research underway indicates it is necessary.
2)The effect of weather has a much greater impact on the sucess of the walleye spawn than the number of eggs deposited. The limit of 4 walleyes in the spring was a compromise to placate those who wished to close the season entirely in Lake Erie and the rivers. There will not likely be any "dramatic" increase in the walleye population due to this change.
3)An absent year class will definately be missed, but isn't the end of the world. It may be muted by quicker growth rates of the remaining walleyes due to reduced competion for food. 2001 was a good year class and if 2003 is decent, we will hardly notice it in the long run. However, the "suicidal" two-year olds that often make up the majority of each summers catch will not be there in 2004 and we will have to rely on the 2001's to keep us busy.
The perch will follow a similar scenario, but delayed a year or two. When you're fishing for perch in say, 2005 or 2006 you'll have both real big ones and little fish and not the middle sizes for a year or two.
The Division of Wildlife will adjust the harvest, if necessary, to keep our walleye and yellow perch fishing the best in the world! The quota management system that the states and Canada use for walleye and yellow perch takes alot of cooperation and negotiation, but seems to be working to keep the harvest in line with current populations. If everyone plays fair, it seems to work really well.

[Tom (mich)]

"Money boys" - what an odd name. Well surely he/she has it all figured out now. It's not about the spawn, or the weather, or the commercial harvest - it's that darn PWT who decimated an entire "school."

[Joe]

I still think those of you who are worried about the Walleye population of the lake should start by ending your fishing of the lake.

I know, most of the people who are worried about this are scared because they cannot catch fish as easily now that the populations are at a more realistic level. I only have one thing to say to them:

Learn to fish better or take up another hobby.

[Mr. Creosote]

Umgawa.
I don't even fish the Lake for walleye. I fish Erie for perch until about Memorial Day. Then I fish inland for walleye were I don't have consumption advisories to be concerned about.
I always considered Erie to be the last refuge for those who could'nt catch walleyes inland.

[???? Tom P]

WHY WOULD YOU EVEN THINK OF FISHING lAKE ERIE, I AM WITH UNDERSTANDING, THAT YOUR TRANSOM IS WEAK, AND ALMOST FALLING OFF. BUT THEN AGAIN, THIS IS A DIFFERENT THREAD, AND JUST ANOTHER PISSING POST FOR YOU.

I'LL BET, IF A FREEZER CHECK WAS DONE ON YOU, THERE WOULD BE FREEZER BURNT WALLEYE'S FROM YESTER YEARS THERE, AND A TICKET WOULD BE IN ORDER. BEWARE OF YOUR NEXT FREEZER CHECK, TOM P.

WHEN YOU PISS IN THE WIND, IT BLOWS BACK IN YOUR FACE

[walleyeken]

oh here we go again!!!!!!!!!!!!!! stop this,do that,change this etc....
hey if you cant catch fish in the big pond stay home.
lake erie has been the walleye capitol of the world
for a very,very long time and will always be.
sure you have a bad year hear or there or a bad spawn
but it dont hurt this lake.
i think the state is doing a fine job for all the fish
in lake erie .
this has been the best pearch fishing in years.the biggest walleyes are being caught now more than ever.and you can go home with a sore arm smallmouth fishing as well.and the steelhead fishing will
thats another complete topic

i catch fish !!!!!!!!!! kenny

[Erie Fisher]

Yeah people have been tossing this topic around at http://www.ohiosportsman.com. It's a darn shame.

[Buckeye]

Mr. Creosote you don't even fish for walleyes on Lake Erie? How on earth did you ever become such an authority on it?

[Tom (mich)]

Sorry to disappoint - but I'm not Tom P. I think you'll find that the name "Tom" is fairly common and shared by many.

[marcbodi]

Hi,
Mr Creosote last year was a great year in the Western Basin for me.After catching all the Walleyes I needed in the Western Basin we started Fishing in the Central Basin for Steelhead and still kept catching Walleyes in 50 to 72 fow.I have been fishing Erie and the Rivers for Walleye for 40 years and the States know how to take care of it.I started in 1963 and in 1966 caught my first walleye in Aug in the Sandusky River.Once they stopped Commerial Fishing in Ohio and Michigan the fishing got better and better to were it is now.My Grandfathers and Dad and 4 Uncles were Commerial Fishermen.We do not have great hatches every year and some years like 2001 we had a lot of Bait fish and the Walleyes were there but they wouldn't bite on Lures.There is a lot of Steelhead out there eating a lot of Baitfish right now.I think it was a good idea to lower the limit to 6 fish and 4 in the Spring.We have to get over the idea we have to catch our limit every time out or the fishing is no good.With the clear water it is harder on the weekends because the fish scatter more but during the week with fewer boats it is top fishing.Lake Erie is the Best and we have to keep it that way.

[Tim FRick]

You really think the inland lakes fish are better for you to eat? I got news for you, all lakes are used for sewage dumps when it rains to much. Therefore I don't think it's any better or worse. And what about the perch population and their spawn. You can't cry about the one and not the other. Not picking a fight, just mentioning some things to consider.

I think it's just the winter blues for everybody, quite funny how it happens every year this time. I think it's the new set of users that just got internet access and havn't heard these discussions before.

I like the armchair biologist one, funny!

Good Luck and like I said last year pray for good spring weather!
Tim FRick

[DICK KNUTSON/GENETRON]

JUST THOUGHT I WOULD THROW MY TWO CENTS IN. ALL MAJOR WALLEYE FISHERIES GO THROUGH HATCH CYCLES. IN OUR STUDIES AND OBSERVANCES OVER THE YEARS OF HUGE BODIES OF WATER, THAT WE WOULD CALL WALLEYE FACTORIES, THIS PHENOMEN IS NOTHING TO GET TO EXCITED ABOUT.IN MY OPINION AND MANY OTHERS TRYING TO STOCK THESE HUGE BODIES OF WATER IS LIKE PISSING INTO THE WIND AND A TOTAL WASTE OF MONEY AND ENERGY.HOWEVER THERE ARE THINGS THAT CAN BE DONE TO RESTRICT THE TAKE. NUMBER ONE IN MY BOOKS IS TO GET RID OF ANY GILL NETS USED BY ANYONE!!!! REMEMBER YEARS AGO ERIE HAD NOTHING TO OFFER WHEN IT CAME TO SPECTACULAR WALLEYE FISHING. REMOVAL OF THE NETS ON THE U.S. SIDE, CLEANER WATER,BAIT FISH ETC ALL CONTRIBUTED TO AN EXCELLENT WALLEYE FISHERY. IN MY OPINION PRACTICE GOOD SPORTSMANSHIP AND SELF IMPOSED CONSERVATION MEASURES AND RELEASE THE GOOD SPAWNERS 3-7LB.WHEN POSSIBLE. THE WALLEYES WILL COME BACK WHEN THE LAKE IS READY TO SUPPORT THEM. DICK KNUTSON GENETRON

[JCarp]

Mr. Creosote,

Your post # 23:

"I don't even fish the Lake for walleye. I fish Erie for perch until about Memorial Day. Then I fish inland for walleye were I don't have consumption advisories to be concerned about.
I always considered Erie to be the last refuge for those who could'nt catch walleyes inland."


I believe the consumption advisories for walleye in Ohio are the same throughout the state with the exception that erie now has a 1/meal per month advisory for eyes over 25". For erie eyes under 25" and walleye and saugeye throughout the state, the advisory is 52 meals per yr for all men and non-childbearing women. For breeders and kids it's one meal per week. Reason is atmospheric deposition of mercury. So unless you fish covered lakes... The exceptions are the inland waters with more restrictive advisories because of specific problems associated with historic use/discharges.

Good luck to you,
jc

[JCarp]

I should have checked before posting. I reviewed a yr 2000 advisory. The 1 meal per week statewide advisory (all species) only applies to sensitive populations which is women of child bearing age and children 6 and under.

No other lakes besides erie had advisories for walleye (1/wk), few rivers. I wanted to suggest erie eyes are fine for dinner, but not with misinformation.

Sorry, jc

[Tom Mayher]

For many years it has been apparent that Lake Erie?s walleye population has been shrinking to the west. Using DOW?s figures from Huron to Ashtabula indicates that our walleye fishing is in trouble. Combining both Charter and Private Boat angler catch rates produces the following:
In 1997 it took an average of 5-- 6 hour angler days to catch a daily bag limit of 6 fish in Dist. 2 and 2 days-5 hrs in D3----1998 3 days 1 hr. in D2 and 1 day 2 hrs in D3---1999 4 days- 2 hrs in D2 and 4 days in D3--2000 3 days 2 hrs in D2 and 3 days 1 hr. in D3----2001 4 days 2 hrs in D2 and 5 days 3hrs in D3. No doubt that these anglers commonly use 2 rods, I fish the old fashion way using only one rod and believe that fish per rod is the accurate method to judge angler success. Fish per rod in D2 in 2001 would mean that it probably would take over 8 hours to catch one fish. If my fishing would deteriorate to such a low I soon would take up a more exciting game like checkers. Seems as if a lot of others did.
Amateurs are taking a beating on this topic---just a little about Amateurs
Save our Native Species [SONS] of Pa. stock nearly a million walleye fry in Presque Isle Bay each year. The get the eggs from their managers who collect them from Pymatuning Reservoir females and jointly do the rest. NY has been stocking their areas with eggs from the Maumee River walleyes for years and recently has had outstanding success. Southtown Walleye Assoc. is joining their managers in this venture. Let?s not forget Ohio?s amatures. The now defunct Lake Erie Sportfishing Assoc. and the very prestigious Polish Fishermens Club led the fight to take our walleyes off of the Commercial List, last year they led a petition drive to ban drilling under Lake Erie--Where would we be if not for the amateurs who cared enough about Lake Erie to get involved and fought for the future of our fisheries.

[Mr. Creosote]

Never claimed to be an authority. Just throwin' out a ques. And I did'nt say I've never fished Erie eyes.
I'm not a doctor either' but I would know a compound fracture when I saw one.

[Mr. Creosote]

Actually I've heard these discussions before. They all sound the same. Those expressing concern are considered alarmists.

[Mr. Creosote]

Check out the latest consumption advisories. Walleyes are listed twice outside of Erie. Both bodies of water were they are listed are rivers.

[ND Walleyeguy]

Mr. Ghostbuster knows all, He must have seen it on his Ghostbuster machine!!!!!!!!

ND Walleyeguy
Hi Dicky !!!