What Would You Do?

[Dave]

I recently purchased a new Lund Baron from a dealer in Minnesota. This was the boat of my dreams and I waited too many years to get it. Unfortunately, when I went to pick up the boat, I realized that the salesman had ordered the wrong engine. Instead of the 5.7 L EFI I asked for, they ordered a 5.7 L with a carburetor. When I told the dealer that I was unwilling to accept the boat, he agreed to convert the motor to EFI and the mechanic assured me that it could be done. I was leaving on vacation that day and definitely wanted to have my new boat in tow. Real stupid. When I got back from vacation, the dealer told me that converting the motor to EFI wasn't feasible and that he was looking at other options. The option he is unwilling to consider is ordering a new EFI motor and installing it in my boat. My dealer is in the process of trying to work something out with Lund. Unfortunately, I have to wait another week before I know what action will be taken by the dealer (it has been nearly a month already). I realize now that I should have walked away when I had the chance, but it is too late for that now. Furthermore, I understand that it was the salesman who made the error in the order - not the dealer (business owner). What would you do? Continue working with the dealer in an attempt to resolve the problem, or talk with a lawyer?

[Keep working]

You did not get what you ordered. Period. Tell, politely, the dealer the salesman made the error, show him the purchase contract. Then tell them fix it or I walk.
Then call your lawyer and have him, politely call the dealer if the dealer is dragging his feet and tossing a ton of bs.
If you ordered a blue boat, and they sent you a red one, should you have to take it? I think not. The dealership should make this right, without making you wait all summer. A month is long enough, they should have some answers by now.

[Wart]

Scuttle that Norwegian barge! Buy an Islander! Fish with your brother on Lake Michigan and catch some real fish!

[WAeyes]

Doesn't matter that it was the fault of the salesman, the dealer is responsible. It doesn't matter if the dealership can't work something out with Lund, it is the dealers problem and they should eat it. I think having to sell a once used motor, like new is a small price to pay for screwing up an order like that. Maybe the dealer should see you walking in front of his business with a picket sign warning possible future customers of their lack of customer service. Good Luck

[IaCraig]

Your dealer is probably in his busy season and under alot of stress right now, so be tactful but not a sap. His salesperson ordered the wrong thing, and from the advice of his mechanic you accepted it with the understanding it would be converted. Both of these people represent his dealership so it is the same as if he did it all himself. Your post makes it sound like the dealer is trying to get LUND to pay for the $ cost of his employee's mistakes, and making you pay for it with lost sleep, lost summer fun & lost time on the waranty period.

Ask your dealer to setup a meeting with you and his LUND rep so you can hear what the rep says and he gets the story straight from you. (Get the rep's business card!) Take along a pen & paper, write down how it is going to be resolved & by when and have the dealer sign it. If he refuses to sign he really doesn't intend to follow through. If the 3 of you do not come to an agreement you feel is fair, tactfully stand up and state "I guess the courts will have to decide this for us" and follow through.

Good Luck.

IaCraig.

PS. the salesperson got you, shame on him. The mechanic got you, shame on you. If the owner gets you, your a pushover and the next guy will probably sell you some swampland!

[Fuzzy]

Simple - return the rig, walk into the owwner's office and tell him you want the EFI and that you'll be back in 2 weeks for it.

If it's not there in two weeks, wait until the salesman leaves for the day and bash him in the knee with a ball bat in the parking lot. Then a couple of good shots to the ribs while he's on the ground. The owner will get the picture then.

[A bit extreme?]

Man oh man, if that wasn't sarcasm, you need to take your medicine!
Maybe a pill the size of a Buick!

;-)

[BIG WORM]

TELL THE DEALER TO KNOCK OFF 4000.00 OFF THE PRICE OF BOAT AND CALL IT EVEN. USE IT THE REST OF THE YEAR AND SELL IT. THEN GET THE ONE YOU WANT NEXT YEAR.A LAWYER WONT EVEN MESS WITH YOU,BECAUSE THIER ISNT ENOUGHT MONEY, IN IT FOR THEM, BEEN DOWN THAT ROAD ALREADY

[Dave]

My thanks for your candid insights on how to best address the problem. While Fuzzy's approach holds a great deal of appeal, I think I'll take IACraig's advice. I won't even comment on the suggestion offered by my brother (WART).

Thanks again and I'll let you know how things work out.

[Fuzzy]

Best of luck dave, nothing worse than a Summer of dealer run arounds. Last Summer, I had to return the 690 3 times just to get a simple neutral safety switch replaced, but not nearly as frustrating as your situation. Hang tough ;)

[dummie]

I guess I'm a little surprised you are having all that trouble. I bought a Lund in November of 1999 and when I went to pick it up the dealer told me he didn't have any 99 engines for my boat so he put on a new 2000, no extra charge. I'm sure your engine is a lot larger but the point being there was no hassle about it. Had some warranty work that needed done, in one day out the next. So hang in there and forget about the attorney. Get what you ordered or get your deposit back. There are plenty of dealers willing to treat you right. God bless.

[fisherman]

As the Lion stated in the Wizzard of Oz..Put em Up! Put em Up!!!

[AquaMan]

LAST EDITED ON Jul-11-00 AT 01:49PM (CST)[p]There is a Federal "lemon law" (Magnuson-Moss Warranty act) that carries over to boats and other vehicles. You were sold something that you did not order. Bait and switch comes to mind. Heavy penalties are invoked. The dealer has, by law, an obligation to provide you with the item you ordered within a resonable (objective) amount of time or refund you the entire purchase price including tax, license and interest on the loan.(If applicable)

I would keep careful WRITTEN records of every transaction, expense, converstation and encounter with dates surrounding this deal. Return the boat to the dealer and in a document or letter, revoke your ownership. Notify the bank that provided the loan of the exact details of this situation so they will not persue you. The may even provide you some support. If the dealer provided financing then you are in real good shape. I would seek the advise of a lawyer if you need exact details on this procedure.

"The Magnuson-Moss Warranty act is a Federal Law that protects the buyer of any product which costs more than $25 and comes with an express written warranty.This law applies to any product that you buy that does not perform as it should.
The Magnuson-Moss law is a federal law gives consumers considerable rights in dealing with manufacturers of lemon cars. This law guarantees a car buyer that certain minimum requirements of warranties must be met, and provides for disclosure of warranties before purchase.

Regarding "lemon cars", this law greatly affects the rights of car and other vehicle buyers. For any product which has a written warranty if any part of the product, or the product itself is considered defective, the warrantor must permit the buyer the choice of either a refund or replacement of the product.

Law firms have argued successfully to juries that the lemon manufacturers should be given three attempts to fix the defect. Continued attempts to repair beyond the initial three should not be allowed. This is called the "three strikes and you're out" principle.

A consumer may pursue legal action in any court of general jurisdiction in the United States to enforce his rights under the Magnuson-Moss Law. Attorney's fees based on actual time spent will be covered if the consumer does prevail.

Due to this particular condition, there is quite a bit of financial pressure on the manufacturer to settle consumers disputes before going to court, as this would keep their expenses down."

Don't settle for his sake. THIS IS NOT WHAT YOU ORDERED. Get a "lemon law" booklet from the DOT for details.

Go get your boat.

AquaMan~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[AquaMan]

This is a detailed site for the MN laws surounding vehicles. I think that boats fall into that catagory.

#####://www.autopedia.com/html/LemonLaw/MN_lemonlaw.html

I would also contact the Attorney Generals office:

attorney.general@state.mn.us

AquaMan~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Wal-lies]

Dave, Sounds like your on the right track. The only advice I can give is to take what aquaman wrote, print it,crumple it up and put it in the trash.

Todd

[FJH1]

Why would you say something like that? Aquaman obviously spent a lot of time on his reply and honestly, if Dave doesn't get anywhere with the dealer Aquaman's option is there for him. I agree that Dave should work with the dealer to resolve the problem the quickest way possible, but if push comes to shove Aquaman gave a viable alternative.

Best Regards,

FJH

[AquaMan]

LAST EDITED ON Jul-11-00 AT 03:55PM (CST)[p]Hmmm, Todd, I guess I do not understand your suggestion. Do you have another suggestion?

AquaMan~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Dave in Mpls]

Hey, Todd

You, my friend, are a toad.

[AquaMan]

What do you expect from a dealer?

AquaMan~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[MOO]

I gotta hand it to Fuzzy a Louie-Vil Slugger works wonders.Don't forget the ski mask

[Thief River Fisherman]

Yea, what would you expect from a Ford car salesman??

[Don]

Assuming that you got a loan, contact the bank or credit union loan officer and inform them of the problems. I know of a couple of instances where banks rectified similar problems with dealers. It is in the banks best interest to make sure their customer got what was promised. It is in the dealers best interest to keep a good reputation with the banks. While banks compete with each other, word about bad dealers travels fast. Having a bad reputation with local banks can sink a dealer pronto.

[Fin Addict]

I work as a commercial lease broker and if I were informed of this situation, I would most certainly place a call to the vendor to let them know we expect to receive the collateral listed on the contract. While the buyer is on the hook here and it was his responsibility to be sure all was ok before the check was issued, pressure could still be applied. This is the kind of thing that places a vendor on a restricted list where no other deals can be funded to the dealer. If you used his recommended lender or a prominent local lender, you are in a strong position, assuming he values his ability to be funded by the lender in question.

[jeff reed]

I don't think this falls under the Mag/Moss or is a bait and switch deal. A bait and switch is when a dealer advertises something at a low price getting you to respond and doesn't or won't sell you that product. This was not the case in this instance. This was a pure case of the dealer or manufacturer, for whatever reason, shipping the WRONG product. You would have a tough time proving "intent" in a courtroom. Either the dealer put the wrong engine code in his order (the Salesman is the dealer) or the manufacturer keyed in the wrong computer code indentifying the correct product when it went into production. In either case the customer should refuse the product since he would lose Nothing other than his time waiting for the product. As far as the MAG/Moss-Lemon Law is concerned, that involves a Defective product. IF this guy got the CORRECT product and had a ton of problems with it then the Mag/MOSS might apply. Simply stated, the guy got the WRONG product he contractually ordered and is under no legal contract to accept it. The dealer can order the correct product and re-write the contract or the customer can take his business elsewhere. In any case the dealer's problem is with the manufacturer since he may be stuck with it, since we haven't established who ordered the wrong product......the dealer or the manufacturer. If this guy hasn't signed papers he's home free. Even if he has signed papers and found out later that the product was not as AGREED to he still has a strong argument to get out of the contract. Assuming he signed loan papers believing the product was "as ordered" only to find different and the dealer MAKES him take the product. Well, now we have what the law says is a contractual breech and the customer is standing real strong. What we really need to KNOW is whether the customer signed the loan papers. Without that knowledge, I can't know how deep he is in to this deal.

[GrbDnet]

This is what I would do. I would stand back, take a deep breath then kick the cat, punch the wall, lite the house on fire and cry! Humans make mistakes that is a fact. It is not the end of the world. Leave the lawyer out of the equation and deal with it!

[The Great Guide]

Don, I hate to say this, but you should have gone with your first instint and walked out the door without the boat. Your experience is a lesson to all of us that we shouldn't let our emotions get in the way of our good judgement. The best suggestion that I read was to go for a big discount, then sell it. If you don't, you will be jerking this issue around for months to come. TGG

[AquaMan]

Dave,

What is your e-mail address? I will forward you the letter I received from the MN Attorney Generals office. They have some excellent recommendations that you may want to pursue.

You can e-mail me at Eric@Crowncomputerinc.com

AquaMan~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Wal-lies]

I agree he spent alot of time. The "legal" advice was incorrect.In short the lemon law offers the MANUFACTURE the opportunity to correct the problem with the product they built. I dont see any bait and switch from what I have read. They dealer has already agreed that there is a problem. What he needs to do now is "Fix" the problem quickly. Getting a lawyer at this point will stop the whole process. The first winner will be the lawyer! He will get his money. If the dealer cant or wont fix the problem then legal advice may be needed.

[wal-lies]

YEAH WHAT HE SAID!

[Wal-lies]

Most just expect me to tell them how I caught so many eyes....lol

[AquaMan]

Jeff, the Mag/Moss Warranty Act also provides relief for customers who's purchase is other then what was ordered. The UCC also has provisions to protect consumers from those situations as well. Additionaly, the AG's office informaed me that they are very willing to help Dave in his persuit of the right boat and will send a letter on his behalf if no acceptable solution can be obtained.

In either case the consumer should not EVER have to settle for a dealer's mistake of this magnatude, regardless who's fault is was in the dealerships chain. PERIOD.

Furthermore, the dealer convinced the consumer to accept the boat with the clear understanding that upon his return the boat could easily be converted to the motor he ordered. Was any one else surprised to see that the conversion was unavailable or not possible? Hmmm...

That, my friends is a clear case of deception. Whether intended or not and the dealer should make all efforts to replace the boat with the correct one or better or at least offer a refund of the entire boat if Dave does not want it.

I do not believe that the consumer, in this case, should stand by and allow such blatant disregard for quality and ethics in a product as expensive as a boat.

I have seen many post complaining about the quality or funtionality of a $120 rod or $75 reel that did not perform as expected. How can any of you sit here and tell this guy to cut his losses and accept the boat with some minor consolation?

As I said to Dave before. GO GET YOUR BOAT...the one you ordered by all legal means necessary and do not let any one tell you that you have to settle for less.

AquaMan~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Frank from TBay]

The Great Guide I 100% agree with you. It has been a learning experience for me watching the posts. I think I would print the posts, take them to the dealer and ask him his opinion on the posts. I would also reassert myself on the matter and ask for a peacefull resolution.No business likes this kind of thing and most will try and resolve them. It is also not the time to be shy. Stick to your guns and keep at them. Good luck and keep us posted as to the outcome.
Frank

[jeff reed]

OK, I see your point. If this guy wants to WAIT the rest of the summer for the dealer to re-order the boat, that's a decision the customer has to make. Bottom line is that dealer can't pull the proper boat out of thin air. I too would never settle for a conversion of that engine. Lund is going to have to get another engine by whomever made that engine. It's obvious the customer wants his boat as ordered and wants it yesterday, that AIN'T GOING to HAPPEN. It's also obvious that after re-reading his post that the dealer can't return it to Lund. Lastly, tell me how you can sue somebody for time lost without a proper product. The dealer re-orders the CORRECT product at the CORRECT price and this guy won't have a boat before October. ALL things are satisfied but customer was WITHOUT the proper boat for 3 months, that time without the boat is NOT legally re-compensable under the MAG/ MOSS. Somebody tell me where I'm wrong.

[Jeff reed]

Right ON! I agree wholeheartedly.