WINNEBAGO SYSTEM FUTURE

[WALL I CRAZY]

After talking to several people about how they feel where the future of this system is going.I have found that there are many concerns.The people feel that there must be something done in order to enjoy great walleye fishing in the future.Everybody is aware that the spawn was a banner year in 1996.We have that year class to enjoy!But,what happens when they are gone?We have not had a a good spawn in 4 years.Some ideas that have been brought up are:1.size limit 2.slot limit 3.reduce bag limit 4.stock 5.close spring run.I myself am worried about the future.What are your comments on this and ideas?Please take time and post your thoughts.Remember the fishing is good now,but what is in the future?

[Steve in PA]

I feel the same way for Lake Erie. The fishing has drastically fallen off in the past years and doesn't look to be getting any better. I really believe that there should be a size limit of around 18-20" and a quantity limit reduced to five or six in Ohio. This would not completely change the problem in Erie, but it would help. To completely solve it they need to eliminate a lot of things. I think a lot of fishermen got greedy (including myself) in the past and took more than they should have. The zebra mussels and gobies also invaded the lake. I think by taking some sort of action on fishing now, it will make a difference down the road.

[pete]

The future for Bago could be bleak. During the spawn there are too many fisherman for the D>N>R> to monitor. I've also heard too many poaching horror stories. It's time for concerned fisherman to take charge and do something. The tournaments are a problem too. They've eliminated them on many other state lakes. Why should Winnebago be different? Just because the system is large doesn,tmean it won,t suffer like other smaller waters.

[Doc_wi]

Although the spawning of Walleyes the last 2 years has been poor due to low water conditions, the future for the Lake Winnebago system seems to be very bright. Strong year classes of fish that are older then the 1996 class, PLUS the fact that the 1996 class will mature this year and spawn next year makes for great potential. Excellent baitfish populations only strengthen this potential. Last year even thought the number of fish spawned was low, the fingerlings were the largest in size ever recorded and second largest in average weight. This summer fishing on the river and lower lakes has been great with the average fish at 17" and I have caught and released a number of fish at 23 to 28+ inches.

As a guide and outdoor writer in Wolf River Country, I have spent a great deal of time with the DNR and at a variety of club events concerning the system and here are some of the things that I have learned from those meetings.
#1 size limit- won't work right now as it would put pressure on the growing stock of younger females just begining to spawn.
#2 slot-limit - to me the DNR has been vague about the effectiveness of a slot limit. Slots are more effective in a trophy fishery and Winnebago strain Walleye don't get to be 16 pounds.
#3 reduced bag limit - heck, this spring it was tough to get 5 and according to DNR assesments we are well below safe harvest limits.
#4 stocking - we have a vibrant self replenishing group of Walleye and improved habitat will help us in years of low water.
#5 close spring run - yea right. You might as well close 200 businesses that rely on those fishermen and for what reason, so that summer fishing is better on bago? BULL

The future lies with supporting groups such as Walleyes for Tomorrow and Shadows on the Wolf etc and improving the education process of the fishermen. The future depends on us being the stewards of the system and turning in poachers and practicing CPR of the bigger female fish, ESPECIALLY PRE-SPAWN. The future lies in even better water quality, habitat and, in the improvement of the spawning grounds and shorelines by the land owners and DNR working together to achieve these goals. All we need is water in the spring again sometime soon and we will continue on our way.

Of course it will take some time to feel the impact of the zebra mussel and goby and I hope and pray that these exotics are not the downfall of what has been a great success at the hands of Kendal Kampke and Ron Bruchs and those others involved. The steps that have been taken in the past are showing up now, hopefully it can continue.
Doc

[Fritz]

It sounds like Doc is doing a little kissing up to Mr. Kampke and Mr. bruch, I'm all for giving credit were it's due but not to the two biggest morons every associated with the WI DNR. Take a close look at what they've done with the sturgeon season. Ron Bruch personally wiped out a third of the stugeon he shocked on the Wolf this spring.{thats by his own addmission}
I agree that there is room for concern with the winnebago system, but those two jokers will only make it worse.
One possible solution is to lower the bag limit in the spring, or make completely catch and release. I personally spend the end of march and allof april on the wolf and fish the rest of the summer on winnebago and poygan, the last few years have been great. I love to catch walleyes and love to eat them, but it does kind of turn a guys stomach to see the number of fish that are taken out of that river in april.

[Doc_wi]

WOW FRITZ! Kissing up?? For what reason?? There is no benifit for me, so why kiss up?? Those who know me know different in regards to kissing up to anyone, well except maybe the wife.

Also, "two biggest morons"?? Double WOW. That is really unfair. From what I have seen, the whole picture looks better due to a lot of combined effort of which they are a big part. I didn't read or hear anything in regards to the Sturgeon so I can't comment on that.

Fritz, if proper resource managment is going to work with the involvement of groups of anglers combined with the DNR, comments like yours can only retard the process. Who would want to work with someone who calls you a moron in public and in a forum where you can't immediatly defend yourself. We need to say posative things and maintain a growing and trusting relationship if my grandchildren are going to be able to enjoy this resource.

[FYI]

So Doc, since you are a business man, your saying that a few extra bucks in your pocket and the pockets of those 200 other business men are more important than the fishery? BULL indeed!
Your opinion seems biased to me. By shutting down the spring run, the fishing the rest of the year would improve so you could more than make up the lost income.

[Doc_wi]

LAST EDITED ON Jul-16-00 AT 03:19PM (CST)[p]Just to clear it up for you, the amount of money I make in the spring makes little differance in my life and would be easily replacable by taking about half the effort applied to my guiding and put that effort into my major source of income. My point exactly is " if the spring season is closed just to make the summer fishing better on Winnebago, at the expense of 100's of businesses on the rivers, that would be bull".

Now I greatly enjoy my traditional spring Walleye fishing. The people I meet and the money that I make as a guide are a bonus but, if for the good of the entire system they had to shut down the spring fishing I personally would adjust easily. I'm not so sure about a lot of other people.

So, now you know that is has nothing to do with a few extra bucks in my pocket. Heck, at the meetings I'm one of the most vocal people asking for at least a spring slot limit to protect the spawners. At the resort I guide out of I've taken people out fishing for free just for releasing fish. If fishing for me was about the money, I'd be fishing tournaments.
Doc

[jeff reed]

Any walleye system that allows fishing during the spawn is doomed to disaster. It's no-brainer fishing with a jig and twister or minnow to take literally hundreds of spawning females. Even a blind man can catch fish during the spawn. To put the economics of 200 businesses above the LONG Term benefits 3 years down the road of the fishery is Reagan Economics. For YOU as a guide to support fishing during the spawn is a SELF- INTEREST POSITION. In Michigan we do NOT ALLOW fishing in inland waters other than the Great Lakes from March 16 to the end of April. This is the reason Michigan has much better overall walleye fishing than Wisconsin. This is why 15 walleye weighed 84 pounds during the Saginaw Bay PWT Tournament. Stocking from walleye rearing ponds really helps out Mother Nature during lean years classes. What does better habitat and water purity count for when your're RAPING the spawning females that are taking advantage of better habitat. Ohio should take notice and close the Maumee River during the spawn and that would bolster the the year classes too. This boils down to two things that can increase the quality of ANY walleye fishery. Stop fishing during the Spawn and use walleye rearing ponds to help strengthen years classes 3 and 4 years down the road. Trust me it works.

[Jeff reed]

Catch and release during the spawn is a JOKE. You will always have low-life people that will keep fish when the CO isn't watching 24 hours a day. If we were all ethical this would be a possibility but in today's world we always manage a resource to the lowest common denominator. This includes the fish hogs that make it tough on everbody.

[Eric]

Doc:

Can you tell us about "Shadow on the Wolf"? I have been a WFT member for two years and would like to know about the other group too. Thanx!

[Eye Catcher]

Hey Doc
If you think the tournament guy's are just out for
money you are sadly mistaken.
The guy's that do fish tournaments release the vast majority of the fish they catch.
If the DNR would finaly do the right thing for the system and shut down the spring run.
Every one would win.
Alot of those fish would stay in the river
(just like they do now)and people would spend more time up there. It is a beutiful place in the summer.

[Doc_wi]

Hey Eye Catcher my comment about ME fishing for money has nothing to do with the GENERAL endeavor of tournamnet fishing. I never said that the tournament guys are just out for the money. In fact, after reading my post again it's pretty obvious that I was commenting on the role money takes in MY fishing, period.

As far as EVERYONE winning if they closed down the spring fishing, I'm not so sure. I'll tell you what. I'll bring it up at the next set of Chamber of Commerce meetings that I go to for the area and see if EVERYONE feels the same way. You'd think that if it is such a win - win situation for EVERYONE, that EVERYONE at the meeting will be quite excited.

Doc

[Eye Catcher]

Doc
I think if it gets explained to them properly
they will understand the area in question has some fabulous fishing year around and I think if they would promote that as much as they promote the spring walleye run there profits would sore.

That is a really nice river system and people need to know that it is good more than just in spring.
Let the fish spawn then catch them for the next 10 months.
My views maybe different than yours but they are my views I repect your veiws please respect mine.
Eye Catcher

[Surgen]

Mr. Reed,

I think your statement about catch and release fishing during the spawn being a joke is unaldulterated fatalism. If we were not allowed to keep fish during the spawn, there would be few people poaching since there would be someone watching them because a CPR boat would probably be close at any given time. I believe that closure of the season during the spawn would help marginally more than C&R only, but there are businesses that rely on those dollars so they can make it through the "slow and steady" business of summer. Plus, most of us like fishing in the spring after a winter of hard water. There probably won't be more fisher-persons in the summer if fish couldn't be kept in the spring. They would probably be slightly more successful fisher-persons and that could be stretching it given the forage base in Winnebago. In your post below, you have well thought-out points, with the exception of Michigan being better in anything than Wisconsin ;-). Good fishing to you.

[Doc_wi]

Once again eye catcher if you read the entire string you should be able to comprehend the fact that I personally do not have any problem with your views. If for the good of the entire system the only choice was to shut down spring fishing, then I personally could live with that. I'm not so sure about the many businesses along the rivers though, and that is why my comments to your "everyone would win". It's good that you care enough to join in discussion and offer your views and I am sorry if you miss-understood my response.

A lot of people share your views but some for the wrong reasons. Obviously, if fish populations become reduced to the point where drastic measures have to be taken, then everyone loses. In fact, I don't think that ANY rule changes will make EVEYONE feel like a winner, but we sure call ALL be losers if the fish population crashes.

Doc

[Hans]

The parasitic chamber of commerce should have no impact on what is best for a sport fishery.

Hans

--
"There is nothing; absolutely nothing; half so much worth doing,
as simply messing about in boats." :-)

[jeff reed]

You sir are not very well educated. Just because you WANT to do something doesn't mean its good for the fishing environment. I say SCREW the people who make MONEY during the RAPING of spawning walleyes during the spring. Those SPAWNING females are the future of your Winnebago fishery 2 to 4 years down the road. Spawning walleyes need to be given a BREAK for six weeks during the spring and PEOPLE like YOU NEED to FIND something else to do, period. WHERE DO YOU GET YOUR FACTS THAT BASE SUMMER FISHING PARTICIPATION NUMBERS WITH FISHING IN THE SPRING???? THE ONLY REAS0N PEOPLE LIKE YOU FISH DURING THE SPAWN IS BECAUSE IT IS SO DAM EASY. YOU NEED TO GO DISNEYLAND AND VISIT FANTASY LAND IF YOU THING WALLEYE FISHING IS BETTER IN WISCONSIN THAN MICHIGAN. WE HAVE MORE WALLEYE AND BIGGER WALLEYE BECAUSE WE LET THEM REPRODUCE IN THE SPRING. WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU CAUGHT A 8 POUND PLUS WALLEYE IN WINNEBAGO??? LIKE I'VE SAID NUMEROUS TIMES BEFORE, ITS ALL ABOUT MONEY AND ANYBODIES CHAMBERS OF COMMERCE IS NEVER CONCERNED ABOUT OTHER PURPOSE OTHER THAN MONEY, MONEY, AND MORE MONEY. YOU AND OTHER WISCONSIN PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE THE PRIMARY REASON WHY THE THERE IS A SLOT LIMIT ON LITTLE BAY DE NOC OVER 25 INCHES. THATS'S BECAUSE YOU GUYS DROVE UP FROM GREEN BAY AND POUNDED ON THOSE BIG FEMALES DURING NOVEMBER AND DECEMBER TO THE POINT THE THE MICHIGAN DNR HAD TO PROTECT THE BREEDING STOCK. HAVE YOU EVER HEARD ABOUT KILLING THE GOOSE THAT LAYED THE GOLDEN EGGS????? SHORT SIGHTED PEOPLE LIKE YOU NEVER CEASE TO AMAZE ME WITH YOU "FEEL GOOD LETS DO IT NOW" PHILOSOPHY. DO YOU WISCONSIN GUYS STILL SNAG FISH TOO????

[jeff reed]

Well said Hans, tell that to SURGEN, he's not too bright.

[Confused]

Jeff
I was in your so called heaven Saginaw Michigan
last week.
And being from Wisconsin I would not even send
someone I did not like there.
So chill.
There are some slobs from this state that we are not proud of and there are some slobs from your state that we are not proud of and I am sure your not proud of them either.
But bashing a whole State for one persons belief shows me who is not educated.
Now I hope you take this note in the fun and humorous way it was intended and let get back to the important issues at hand.

[Jeff reed]

The FACT still stands regardless of anybodies beliefs, slob or no slob, Wisconsin ALLOWS fishing during the SPAWNING period and that biologically sucks. It seems to me Wisconsin puts the importance of money over the viability of the fishing resource. The other FACT that still stands is that the Saginaw Bay has more and bigger walleye than any spot in Wisconsin, primarily because we find better things to do for 6 weeks in the Spring than raping the walleye brood stock. The Michigan DNR loves to give out heavy fines for people caught fishing on the Tittabassee River during the spawn. Stating FACTS is NOT bashing anybody. Didn't you like the walleye fishing in Saginaw Bay or didn't you catch any??? Leave your Lindy rigging techniques home next time.

[Confused]

The bay was fine.
Except for the little Cripto Sporidium problem.
And yes we caught several nice fish.
It was the city I was refering to.

And if you can leave your sarcasim in check for 5 minutes you will see that 1/2 the state is already closed durring the spawning run and most people are asking the DNR to close the other half
and those my friend are the facts.

Unforunatly we have a DNR secrtary appointed by the Govenor.IE(Puppet) And we are trying to change that to. But until that happens we will just have to keep spreading the word
(let them go let them grow)

[Surgen]

Boy Jeff, you seem to have slight chip on your shoulder. An attitude like you have must find you fishing on Michigan lakes alone.

I don't believe in raping a resource, but studies show that most successful year classes are based on spawning conditions rather than the number of spawning fish. Maybe you should try to educate yourself on this matter before you start blowing gas about raping resources by taking some fish out. Simply leaving fish in the water doesn't mean you're going to have a successful spawn. There are several documents written on this subject pertaining to the Upper Mississippi River system. I, personally, would like to see the season eliminated for keeping spawning fish, but catching and releasing them doesn't have an affect on the population of a good or poor year class. The only effect is on the year class that is being caught. This may be the problem on Winnebago. There were a couple good year classes and they may be overfished to the point where they're harder to find, but there are a couple good year classes coming. Ten percent of the fish kept are caught during the spawning run and 27% of the fish kept are caught in the month of June. Additionally, I don't have any facts on whether or not there will be more fishers if there is no fishing allowed on Wisconsin river systems during the srping walleye run. That is just my thought on that. With respect to the business aspect of spring walleye fishing in Wisconsin; if anyone thinks that money interests can be beat, think again. It's a shame that our resources' integrity usually has an inverse relationship to the amount of money made utilizing them. With walleye fishing, we can have it both ways by releasing any fish during the spawning run that is capable of spawning or capable of becoming a spawning fish. Go to the Fox River in DePere, WI some time and find out what a great trophy fishery is despite spring fishing.

I've seen several threads with posts from you on them and they seem to turn into a battle every time. You are a sarcastic b*#tard (my apologies to other WC visitors), Mr. Reed. Maybe you should take a trip to Disney Land to change your outlook on life. You're an angry man. I know a hundred guys like you, they're all know-it-alls and they all shoot their mouths off like you do. Unless YOU persist, I consider this matter closed.

[Scott Richardson]

I am a flatlander, an outdoor writer, tournament fisherman and frequent visitor to Winnebago with family roots in Fond Du Lac, I have had the pleasure of getting to know Kendall Kamke over the years. He does a great job in analyzing the situation on the system and responding to protect the walleye fishery when response is needed. The immaturity shown by calling him names hardly seems necessary. It's an embarassment to all who use the message board.

One of the more amazing miracles I have seen over the years is the ability of a handful of anglers to amass the same knowledge about fish biology by picking up a rod as those who devote many years to scientific study.

That unpleasantry said, not all systems are negatively impacted by allowing harvesting during spawning. That seems a decision best left to DNR on a site by site basis based on annual surveys.
Ending all harvest during spring is very drastic.

I don't think, as a one or two others apparently do, that DNR is in the business of sabotaging a fishery. Their jobs depend on exanding fishing opportunities and attracting more and more people to the sport. To promote activities that would eventually lead to the demise of the fishery at Winnebago, no matter what the season, would be short sighted. I have never seen that defect among the DNR biologists I have met anywhere.

Winnebago generates so many walleyes during normal- to high-water springs that it takes a good spawn only once every three years or so to maintain it, according to the experts.

As my colleague said early in this thread, minimum size limits increase pressure on faster-growing females. Slot limits are something to be considered after study, if needed to protect spawners.

Stocking can help produce some fish during the bleak years. It is used in that way at some locations as a backup. But the numbers from stocking pale in comparison to natural methods.

Bottom line - hasn't anyone heard of selective harvest? Promoting good angling ethics and cracking down hard on the scofflaws who ignore creel limits works. Of course, that means few cries should be heard when fee increases are proposed to fund more conservation police.

Scott

[Tom (Mich)]

On behalf of most of Michigan's anglers, I apologize for Mr. Reed's inflammatory and sarcastic comments. Of note:

1. Saginaw Bay can be a tremendous fishery. The city, however is pretty much the bowel of the state.

2. Mr. Reed, while singing the praises of the Saginaw management plan, seems to forget that the top spring fishery (Detroit River) is open year round with fishing better than it's ever been. Of critical importance, there's evidence that the Saginaw Bay walleye population is not self-sustaining - it's maintained almost exclusively by stocking, namely the efforts of the Saginaw Bay Walleye Club. That said, it makes sense to close the spawning season under these circumstances.

[Schmitty]

Hi Scott
I agree with some of your statements but disagree with some also I to know Mr Kampkee and Mr Brash and think of them as friends.
The part you are missing is that for all most 7 years Winnebago was known as the dead sea. You could not catch a walleye out there with dynomite.
Now that fishing has returned to normal the people around here would like to keep it that way.
So lets take some pressure off the fish for 6 weeks in spring is that really a bad thing.
They do not have anyware to hide since the invention of the planner board and people learning about the mud bite.
These are my views and maybe I am right maybe I am wrong but 15 years ago you never and I mean never saw a boat in the Mud flats I was out today and there was 75 of them.
Whats your call on that.
Next time you come up give me a call and we will go CPR a few.
Schmitty

[jeff reed]

Chip on my shoulder? Not Me. I am a happy guy. I just don't let "stinkin thinkin" like yours get too popular. I know a thousand guys like you too and 999 will catch every spawning walleye that swims if given the chance. You are absolutely right I am controversial and don't plan on changing soon due to people with your logic. Your also right that issues in today's world are a battle because people will roll over you with "feel good logic" like yours.

[jeff reed]

You are right, Saginaw isn't Beverley Hills, but then again what are you looking for in someplace to fish? Believe me there are worse places in Michigan. The reason it's pretty tough to over fish the Detroit River during the spawn is very simple. The Detroit River is big, wide, fast and deep unlike the rivers in Wisconsin with more spawning walleye than some states entire walleye population. Given the complexity of trying to do all the right techniques to locate those spawning fish on that deep river system really gives the fish more of a chance. Simply stated, there is a higher probability that you can get skunked on the Detroit River during the spawn than the fishing the Tittabawasse where the fish are bunched tight in small places. You might want to explain the non-sustaining situation that exists in Saginaw Bay to somebody else being that I was the president of the Saginaw Bay Walleye Club and signed checks for the running of those 5 walleye rearing ponds for 2 years. I am well aware of that situation and fought the Michigan DNR when they proposed alternate year planting. If you have any questions on that situation I will be glad to answer them for you. You don't have to apologize for me, the people that know me are well familar with what I stand and what I won't.
Agree with me or don't agree with me, the one thing about me is that I'm never luke warm or wishy-washy on anything. Of course that's my opinion and I could be wrong.

[Scott Richardson]

Hi,

Yes, I am aware of how the long dry spell impacted the fishery and the minds of the fishermen. Of couse, the desire to maintain and improve a fishery is always a good goal. Sometimes, though, I think the desire to do something becomes a compulsion to do anything.

I would love Kendall's estimate on what percentage of the total walleye population is taken during spring run. Here on the Illinois River, the ANNUAL take of saugers is estimated at only 5 percent of the total in the system. Illinois DNR put a 14 inch length limit on a couple of years ago, not because they thought it necessary, but only to soothe the concerns of organized fishermen. In fact, the reduction in harvest caused by more fish may slow the overall growth rate because of increased competition for food.

I don't know what good science at Winnebago dictates. My only point here is that people should ask the experts rather than cast stones.

Scott

[joey o]

Why not not dawn to to dusk fishing during spring?
The business get fisherman at nite fishermen get to fish all day. Most fish are caught after dark this time of year

[Eyez]

This is sounding alot like a recent Mille Lacs thread...

Eyez

[Skeeter]

I have been reading this thread, and normally I will stay out of a disscussion like this one. However you have such a bad attitude, I think it's time someone told you about it. What the ##### do you care about what we do in Wisconsin anyway? If you think your fishery is so great in Michigan, than thats great, stay there, but don't come on here and cut down Wisconsin's fishery and Wisconsin peoples opinion on it. Get a life Dude! And get some solid facts before you go making a fool of yourself! Green Bay is every bit as good a walleye fishery as Saginaw, and yes I have fished both. Just because the fishing was tough in one tournament because of conditions, it does'nt make a fishery suck. I know your type, and I know this was a waste of time to tell you what I think of you, But someone had to do it! Skeeter

[wis.dummy]

I think Skeeter is on to something.Of course being just another Wis.dummy,I can't understand why some person that thinks we are all a bunch of rubes would ever fish here anyway.No we don't snag here;we stopped that stupidity a few years after Mi. Someone with such a superior intellect should do everyone a service and solve world hunger or global warming. Was Aldo Leopold stupid too? Gaylord Nelson? You want to know what I think the biddest conservation problem is? Micromanagement. Oh, maybe that is not p.c.

[E MOO]

Getum Jeff I'm with you. Should've seen what the locals did to the smallmouth on Green-Bay. It was the biggest RAPPING of a fishery I"ve every seen they pushed you out of the way so they could anchor on your spot !!!!MOO

[jeff reed]

I know of Aldo Leopold, his company makes the 3X9 scope on my rifle. Doesn't the Gaylord dude pitch baseball in the major leagues or the Nelson guy have a wife named Harriet and two sons named Ricky and David??????

[Jeff Reed]

Wow!!!! I'm flattered to get such a nice response from a Joe McCarthy clone. You sir just made my day. I sure am a much happier guy than before. Thanks.

[Skeeter]

You Sir can go ##### yourself!

[Eyecatcher]

Skeet
This Jeff guy is not worth the amount of time it is taking me to write this.
Lets not give him the satisfaction of anymore comments.

For now on I think I will avoid his sarcasum
and read what decent people write.
Can we all say (Blackballed)

[jerry]

To Jeff Reed,

Just a little info for you and your comments about how superior Saginaw Bay is when it comes to big fish: Check the records kept by In-Fisherman's Master Angler awards program, my friend, and you'll see Green Bay/Sturgeon Bay way ahead of Saginaw Bay. I fished with many individuals this spring and personally saw caught or caught myself 25 walleyes of over 10 lbs. And every one of these fish was released. You need to get your facts straight before you run off at the mouth.