Idiots in Colorado

[Neal/CO]

Well Eric, Art, Dave and the rest of the gang. I don't know if you have heard yet, but the slot limit proposed for Pueblo Res. has been turned down by the Wildlife commission. The same people who have ****ed up our trout and Kokanee fishing and have no idea how to fix it, made this brilliant decision. The old limit of four fish over 18 inches will prevail. Even though 86% of the fisherman who responed to the poll voted for the new regs and the bioligist in charge of Pueblo also supported it. So instead of protecting the 18-26 inch fish the DOW needs for it's egg taking operations, they want you to creel those fish, so they can protects the hords of undersized fish roaming the lake right now. Just one more reason to buy a Wyoming fishing license as far as I am concerned. Goto www.canoecreek.com/CFF/cff.htm for the full story.

[Neal/CO]

Sorry about the profanity I used. Usually the sofware automaticlly deletes this word. I tried to edit, but the system won't let me for some reason? I know thats no excuse but I,m pissed off.

[Neal/CO]

I also forgot to mention that the new slot limit was endorsed by the CO. Fihing Federation, CO. Walleye Association, In-Fisherman Magazine and Pete Peterson the Minnesota Biologist responsible for the turn around of the Rainy Lake fishery.

[EricCO]

I'm blaming it all on Trout Unlimited. Fricking bug eaters!

[Neal/CO]

TU are a bunch of rocket scientists compared to these guys.

[Fin Addict]

They must want a put and take fishery for the walleyes in the system. Removing the larger fish ensures that natural reproduction will be limited and gives the DNR better control over walleye #'s. Wouldn't want those big eyes getting really big feasting on inept stocker trout. Can you imagine how big they would get? Makes me drool. On a lighter note, please see the following article from the Mpls paper today. You would think the CO fishermen could at least beat the MN guys at fly fishing. (My brother inlaw fishes w/ Dick Hanosack who was on the team mentioned in the article - if all the MN guys were as good as Dick, a flyfishing God, I doubt anyone would beat them) Better move to MN!

[Fin Addict]

Here is the article #####://www2.startribune.com/cgi-bin/stOnLine/article?thisSlug=ANDY28

[schmuddley]

They might be small but they sure is tasty. As fer the bigger ones, I let them go. See I's got my own idears on slot limits.

[EricCO]

Why did the DOW even ask for input from the public and make us all think something would be better.

Sounds like they could have made the decision in a staff meeting.

[Neal/Co]

There is no natural reproduction in Colorado. Last year they collected almost 90 million eggs from Pueblo, Cherry Creek and Chatfield resevoirs. These are then hatched and stocked in 50 different waters around the east slope. By having a four fish 18 inches are longer limit, they are encouraging anglers to kill the very fish they depend on for eggs. Meanwhile Pueblo is over run with thousands of 16 inch walleyes that you can't eat, plus untold numbers of stunted smallmouths. And to make it worse they dumped 130,000 10 ich stocker rainbows in there this year. What happens when the shad base collapse's like it does every three to four years. Right now we are one boom side of shad rollercoaster and fish are faily healthy. Just three years ago the walleyes were skinny and almost anemic looking. But you could catch 30 a day and release them. The whole thing sucks and I think I need to go house hunting in Cheyene.

[ozarkeyes]

I know your frustration. Here in Arkansas we have the same 18" min on Table Rock, Bull Shoals, Norfork and Greers Ferry (But going to 18-26or30" slot on Greers Jan 1) I agree with you about taking the prolific spawning fish. But tell them to stock more rainbows- the walleyes love em!! thats what helped the world record come from Greers.

[GrbDnet]

Thats it I am going to sell the boat,buy some neopreme waders, grab my Sage rod,jump in my Jeep Cherokee, put on my querr little fishing hat and vest. Going flyfishing in CO. The ##### with these dinky walleye.

[exnj]

RE: Staff meeting comment. It sounds like they did make up their minds in a staff meeting and ignored every other recommendation. The CanoeCreek article said that the only support in keepin limits the same was "staff recommendations". I can recommend what they do with their staff. I have been thinking of the change as a foregone conclusion due to all the survey and coalition support. Unfortunately public opinion doesn't matter once again here in Colorado. At least in NJ you could pay off the right officials to get what you wanted. This really stinks. Hopefully I'll have luck down at Trinidad this weekend. tight lines.

[ddenver]

Who is going to Trinidad this weekend. I have to be in Sanddunes area on Mon with in-laws and looking for spot to fish in southern part of state. Any info provided on Trinidad would be welcome.

[akelm]

And another thing....about pueblo res.

Try using the the ramp on the west end of the lake on the North shore. Sorry Neal , but you are over the H.P. limit by 20. The sign states by the DOW this ramp is paid for by fisherman. (All fisherman I would think) but restricted. Only those fishing boats that have less then 50 h.p. are able to use this ramp. I know, whats this have to do with the walleye regs??????You pay for the bunch of fools to make to make Stupid Rules.

[Kevin/CO]

Eric/CO you blamed Trout Unlimited for the insane happenings at Pueblo. When in fact Trout Unlimited is also banging its head against the beurocratic proverbial wall. Infact the inside line is that they are in support of similiar limits being put in place as those that were being proposed for Pueblo. They may be bug eaters but they are fighting the same people that we were.

[Kevin/CO]

Those stocker trout won't last more then a year so I wouldn't worry about them the whirling desease infested fish that are still coming out of our infested fisheries are being put into the warmer temperature lakes where they can't spawn and reporduce. These fish have maybe a year left beofer they die.

[Not from Colorado, but]

Hey, why don't the Walleye guys and the trout guys unite? You both appear to be dealing with a deaf and blind burocracy that will only listen to itself.
Unite the Trout guys and you Walleye anglers, if you don't already have a club, create one and work together. Walleyes for Tomorrow would probably love a chapter out there.
It also sounds like you have some real heavy hitters on your side of this argument. band together and bend as many ears as you can. See what you can do to get the closed room good ol boys to listen, or get them ousted and place a more angler and Fish friendly group in charge of your state's fisheries.
If there is one fault amoung anglers and sportsmen and women alike, it is that most of us sit and complain but when the time comes to take action, we cant even organize to achieve a common goal.
Stop picking on the bug eater chasers and enlist their help in this. Trout and Walleyes can and do survive together if managed by people that have their heads out of their a**es.
The time to act is now. Don't wait for the other guy, and don't throw verbal stones at them either.

[Forgot Somethings.......]

You forgot your granola trail mix!

[Neal/Co]

I am a fly fisherman and a walleye fisherman. I never understood the either or attitude. I fish for multi species at the optimum times to fish for those species. The Pueblo issue has nothing to do about Trout Unlimited and you are right we all are fighting the same bueacratic mess. I don't agree with TU alot but they have their right to their opinion.

[delque]

Colorado DNR are much more concerned with concerns of non fisherman,non hunters than they are with real wildlife management. Any and All remaining sportsmen out there better look to the ban on trapping in Colorado. The DNR stood by and allowed millions of voters be persuaded by the big bucks of the Disney rights advocates without so much as makeing a peep. The DNR in Colorado is run by incompetents,animal rights advocates,and could care less about the concerns of knowledgable outdoorsmen.
We trappers lasped in our collective efforts to neutralize the DNR incompetence, and allowed Our intrests to be deep 6'd-Other outdoorsmen ought to unite, and be aware that not only will the DNR continue to unmanage and screw up Colorados wildlife,they will continue to railroad their poor management down the sportsmens throats unless they are made accountable by the weight of a united, aware front of all sportsmen in Colorado
that monitors and attends DNR policy meetings, lobbys the Colorado legislature in the best intrests of sportsmen and correct Wildlife management-We did not do it,Trappers acted alone and without a united front, look what happened to Our rights and management of furbearers.
sorry to be so windy. Just be aware its not just Colorado fishing management that is at issue here, its the whole of the DNR that will continue to beat You over the head with bad management,unaccountable, because they are aware of the of general apathy and unorganized response by sportsmen in general.

[Kevin/CO]

I agree that we sportsmen need to unite, and some of us sorta have already. I would to try do something about it but I am a minor and really can't do much. I think some one needs to form a colorado sportsmen society.It should take dues to hire lobbiest but unlike a lot of other societies and clubs if we want it to work it needs to include minors. There are a lot more underaged hunters and fishermen then you might think. But the problem that I see is how do we get it from an underground movement to something with a strong base population. Web sites like Canoecreek? I don't know but if it goes from drawing board to reality count me in.

[Join WLFA]

Join the Wildlife Legislative Fund of America! This group fights the Anti's where they do the most damage, at the legislative level!

You can get info by clicking my e mail or go to their site www.wlfa.org. They will send out frequent news letters that keep you aware of issues all over the country. I have been a member since 1988 and I do not regret the 50 b ucks I swend each year.

You can join for as little as 25 a year, I believe. Sportsmen need to unite to keep our national heritage just that.

Don't delay as groups like Peta have already started on the fishing issue. Do you still want to be able to hunt and fish in your lifetime? What about your kids?

Don't sweat the being a minor, I am sure you can join too. Just check them out. Make your voice heard in Washington where the Liberal Tree Hugging eco Nazi's have the most impact.

Look what can be done when we all band together. In Wisconsin, Dove hunting has made it through all the DNR hearings and has become a reality, despite having a freakin tree hugger on the conservation board. So many sportsmen turned out for this springs conservation hearings that most places ran out of Ballots and people were standing outside as they could not get in the room!

Can you imagine how the DNR would have to listen if EVERY LICENSED hunter and angler VOTED, in every election and attended EVERY conservation hearing. C'mon people, no one is going to do it for you.

Sorry for the rant, but I would like to keep spending the days on the water with my boys and do more than go , "OOOH isn't that a pretty jet ski!"

[Jeff McIntyre]

Gentlemen, I have been on the board of directors with the CWA for around seven years. We have tried to give the dow advise on what we thought would help the walleye fishing in CO. They always seemed to listen but seldom did anything. The man who was behind the slot limit from the start was Bill Shumaker. He has worked for over 4 years putting together data from other states as well as CO. He really put alot of time and effort into this with the understanding that it had a chance to succeed if the public would suport it. Well you can see the results!! I'm not sorry to say I'm moving to MN in a short while. As for CO sportsman joing together that is what the United Sportsman council was designed for,I'm just not sure it is working?

[Neal/CO]

Bill did a great job, and I e-mailed him and told him so. Unfortunately we live in a state where outdoorsman have very little voice and developers have carte blanche to do whatever they want. Pretty soon this state will be a small California without the beach.

[wallyrig]

Don't feel bad Colorado now you guys know how we are feeling up here in Wy on weekends Glendo is known as Colorado we get pretty tired of it when people bring out there Colorado fish finders and here they are almost in the boat with you.We here about people from Colorado taking home coolers of walleyes thats just great I watched a boat from Colorado one day six people in it bringing in fish one right after another and none of them being returned to the lake.They were fishing 3 days straight never saw them throw one fish back so much for protecting a fishery.Talk about idiots we don't call you Greenies for nothing.

[wallyrig]

Don't feel bad Colorado now you guys know how we are feeling up here in Wy on weekends Glendo is known as Colorado we get pretty tired of it when people bring out there Colorado fish finders and here they are almost in the boat with you.We here about people from Colorado taking home coolers of walleyes thats just great I watched a boat from Colorado one day six people in it bringing in fish one right after another and none of them being returned to the lake.They were fishing 3 days straight never saw them throw one fish back so much for protecting a fishery.Talk about idiots we don't call you Greenies for nothing.

[wallyrig]

Don't feel bad Colorado now you guys know how we are feeling up here in Wy on weekends Glendo is known as Colorado we get pretty tired of it when people bring out there Colorado fish finders and here they are almost in the boat with you.We here about people from Colorado taking home coolers of walleyes thats just great I watched a boat from Colorado one day six people in it bringing in fish one right after another and none of them being returned to the lake.They were fishing 3 days straight never saw them throw one fish back so much for protecting a fishery.Talk about idiots we don't call you Greenies for nothing.

[Okay then,]

If you sit there and watch them, for three days straight, why don't you call the Wardens?
If the Wyoming Wardens are of the same variety as the rest of the places I fish, then they are reeeeaallly happy to write a poacher a ticket and /or arrest them.
If yiou sit there and watch, but do nothing, aren't you part of the problem too?
Not a personal shot, I don't even know you. But it is a thought.

[Colin/CO]

Do any of you guys mind if I send this post to the DOW? Maybe it will change their minds.

[By all means]

Do it, and tell them this is seen by about 300,000 people this month

[Colin/Co]

I just sent an e-mail to the DOW and will keep you guys posted if and when they seay aomething. i suggested they post a message on this forum so maybe we'll hear from them that way. Colin/CO

[EricCO]

We promise to practice catch and release, if you stop using your kids computer. Only hit the submit button once please.

I've seen Wyoming people come down here and kill people, so I guess all Wyoming residents are murderers.

[Neal/CO]

Thanks Colin, but I doubt anyone will respond. I really don't think anyone on the state level cares what we think. What we need to do is cause a lot of grief at the top, because ##### runs downhill. Lets get every license holder in in the state to make getting rid of Bill Owens their top priorty. He only won by 1 percent of the vote last election. Maybe if we make him "adjust his career plans" he then might lop of some heads underneath him. In my opinion just about everyone at the supervisory level of DOW should be fired immediately. Lets start emailing everyone and tell them what a lousy job they are doing and that we think they should all go to career counceling asap.

[bobco]

DISASTER OF WILDLIFE(DOW),is what we have managing our resources, they are run by a bunch of white paper writing biologist whom are drivin to making a name for themselfs by proving thier opions correct at our cost. They are also trying to destroy the Only trophy lake trout fishery left in the state, Blue Mesa, they have posted flyers around the lake to kill every laker caught because they eat the precious stocker trout and kokonee. But the DOW will not enforce the possesion limit on Kokonee for the retired tourists that spend the summer at Blue , catching limit after limit and canning them back at thier motor homes. So what do we do, go to thier round table meetings? The only thing I have seen, in my 20 years of living in CO, get thier attention was the Gunnison group a couple of years ago brought a lawsuit against them..anybody know a good lawyer?

[Neal/CO]

They are a bunch of boobs. They have known for several years that they were running short on Kokanee eggs. They did nothing till last fall, still allowing slob fisherman to snag their 40 fish limits. They know that bad water chemistry and mysis shrimp are the real reason the Grandby koke population crashed, but it is easier to blame the lakers than take any resposibilty. Now they want to take half of the fry we have left and stock them in Grandy, even though they no it can no longer support a Kokanee fishery. Spinny and Grandby are ruined and it looks like Blue Mesa might be next. Like I said earlier there is not enough time in the day to go after all the incompetent people at the DOW, so lets make life interesting for Mr Bill. Maybe if he see's his reelection in doubt he will pay some attention to our causes.

[Kevin/CO]

LAST EDITED ON Aug-01-00 AT 04:25PM (CST)[p]The problem with going against Owens is he only seems to give a flying monkey ##### about his own agenda not really the people. Look at what he did to the teachers, promising more money and a bigger budget. Did it happen? NO, and when they protested they got no results. Maybe the better idea would be to for the next election sponsor our own canidate. There are a lot of Colorado residents who hunt and fish. I would be willing to bet that they would stand behind a canidate who wanted to improve things. And of course people just love wildlife and nature so if we made the issues more known maybe we could get enough support by the non-outdoorsmen. Its a thought maybe not the best, but weeding out a bueracracy is almost impossible from the bottom.

[Neal/CO]

Owens made lots of promices he hasn't kept. He won by only 1%of the vote and gathered alot of his support on the western slope. The same people who are being hurt the most by some of the DOWs absurb decisions. So lets start a grass roots campaign to boot his *** out of office. He is a wimpy, bean counting, gutless career politician who never the deserved the job, in the first place. Alot of people will say he is not the one making the decisions and I am not being fair to him. Tough #####, Don Baylor lost his job with the Rockies and I never saw him out on the field making errors. He is the Governor of this state and the buck stops at his desk.

[wallyweighmaster]

This is very true - The United Sportsmans Council in deed was formed for this reason. What we need to do, is somehow get the fishermen and hunters together and stand up together! There are always only a few voices to speak up for so many that are affected. It doesn't work unless there is more effort and participation by everyone. Not enough hunters or fishermen will take the time and put in the extra effort to follow things through! We need a very large loud voice - Hey! How 'bout you jeffery???!!! Hee! Hee! There's my 2 cents.

[Kevin/CO i forgot to login]

Right on Neal i agree got to kick his *** out of office. the sooner that looser is out on his *** begging for attetnoin the better.

[BILL SHUMAKER]

IT'S NOT TO LATE TO GET THE SLOT LIMIT ON PUEBLO WALLEYES. WE NEED PRESSURE FROM YOU, THE FISHERMEN, AND I DON'T CARE IF YOU BELONG TO A WALLEYE ASSOCIATION, TU, OR BLUE GILL UNLIMITED. THIS IS FOR A GOLD WARM WATER FISHERY AND ASSURANCE OF FUTURE EGG TAKING OPERATIONS. PLEASE WRITE TO YOUR LEGISLATORS, THE WILDLIFE COMMISSIONERS AND EVEN THE GOVERNOR IF YOU LIKE. I'M GOING TO THE LEADVILLE MEETING THIS MONTH TO AGAIN PLEAD OUR CASE THAT PUEBLO CAN BE THE BEST PREMIER WALLEYE LAKE IN THE FRONT RANGE INCLUDING WYO. AND N.M. WITH PROPER MANAGEMENT AND ASSURE LOTS OF MATURE WALLEYES FOR EGG TAKING OPERATIONS.

[cadyco]

Bill would it do any good to contact the wildlife comissioners? Are they aware of your proposal?

[Neal/Co]

Unfortunately they are the problem. It was the commision who shot down Bill's proposal, despite all the backing he had.

[cadyco]

The pueblo slot limit is not dead just yet.I received a phone call today from a person with the DOW,he assured me that the comissioners will be brought up to date on the slot limit issue. They will then decide what they think is the next step to take. This is what we wanted.(for the comissioners to see a posible new direction to take at pueblo)There will be a meeting in the near future so Bill can present his findings. As soon as I find out the time and place I will post it.

[dden]

I fished Glendo this year for first time. Great fishery in my opinion. But I don't know that the Coloradoans are the only people taking a lot of fish out of there day after day. I sa the same Wyoming people limit out 3 days in a row - full boat full of people. I got checked by 2 different game wardens both on my possession and catch limit so I'm pretty sure I was ok. Would like to see a couple of fish cleaning stations put in and maybe roads gravelled or paved with the quite high fishing license fees.

Any of those Wyoming people ever come down to Denver and use Mile High Stadium, Coors Field, or the Pepsi Center. Any of the shopping centers? Any of the equipment or car dealers? Ever come to the Stock Show and use the Coliseum? Ever watch the Broncos, Nuggets, Rockies or Avs on TV?

[jighead]

WOW haven`t you people figured it out yet! the DOW dont give a flying rip about colorado fisheries , where in Colorado can you go any more and limit in 2 hrs on any given day ?Its all about management folks! priority does not lie with the fisherman ( if it ever has in CO.) its what ever makes the most revenue .
Recreational types that blast through your favorite fishing hole after finaly locating eyes, thats revenue and thats whats colorado is alllllll about.
Why cant we make another Glendo fishery out horsetooth seems like the same water to me ! is it that Colorado water is to clear to high in elevation or fluctuates to much ? BULL ##### .
I fished this state for 40 years and seen fisheries in CO do nothing but decline , but everthing to the north just get better, (WY,SD,NB,ND,MT) WHY? WHY? WHY? I guess the big boys figure the local fisherman aren`t very important to the local economy now are they!
I live in CO & run a buisness here , and joined the CWA last year just for fun ,but good GOD ! I certainly hope there are better days ahead for the future of Colorado fishing.

[Kevin/CO]

Its almost like the blind leading the deaf analogy. An unconcerned poorly informed organization leading a less aware and informed (on a broad scale). With less fishermen aware and informed how do we make changes in the ignorant DOW? I don't know, site like this one and canoecreek help but ignorance it too widely spread.

[BILL]

I SENT A COPY OF THE ARTICLE TO ALL THE DOW COMISSIONERS.