: Why pro walleye tournaments suck from a fan's perspective!!!


bassfan256
09-28-2013, 06:50 AM
With all the pro walleye tournament circuits folding up and smaller fields and everyone complaining about it and wondering why I just thought I would offer my two cents on the subject from a walleye fan's perspective.

I have followed walleye touraments since 1997 with the PWT and its walleye in-sider which was awesome they always broke down how the pros won the tournament, depth of water, type of cover, trolling jiggging or casting, what type of presentation they used crankbaits, jigs, rigs or whatever, they even showed how new technology helped them catch the tournament winning fish. Then you would watch the tounament coverage on tv and Mark Dorn would pull up right next to the tournament leader and break it down for you on exactly what the leader was doing it was awesome.

So then I would go out and buy alot of this tackle that the top five tournament finisher used and try it on my home waters and in little local team tournaments, Granted I spent a little to much and wife threatend to leave me a few times but thats fishing right. Some times it worked and sometimes it didn't and I sold a bunch of stuff on ebay so I could by more of the latest and greatest tackle.

Now look at the recent article on here about the NWT championship not even one mention on how or what the tournament winner was doing or what he used to win the tournament!!!Another example a couple of years ago my nefu and I took the time to watch the flw live streaming weigh in of a tournament and after first day it was made to seem that the tournament leader was trolling spinner harness and after final weigh in they still didn't break down the presentation and my nefu told me that sucked uncle why did we even waste the time watching this they didn't even show how the winner caught them. Then much later come to find out he was using bass spinnerbaits, its almost as if they were keeping it secret, how can you do this to your fans and sponsors on a professional level just think how many more spinnnerbaits would have been sold if the winner would have showed this after the tournament was over and how many walleye fans could have taken to their home wates trying this new presentation.

Since watching that oahe event my nefu has gone from being a walleye fan to a bass fan, he showed me a live stream of a bass tournament and after the tournament they broke down the exact way the winner caught his fish and what he caught it on no secrets, no waiting months to find out what winner was using, no pissed off fans. Then we could go out buy the lure he used and try it out the next day on our local bass pond. I would think this is how alot of money is made quickly for fishing tackle manufactures, and why they have a pro staff.

What is the point of having pro walleye tournaments if the winning presentation, lure or technique is not shown to the fans right away on the stage when pro is handed trophy. I dont mean to take away credit from the pro who won because I am sure it took alot of hard work and sacrafices to win, but cmon i want somthing that will help me put more walleye in my boat or whats the point of watching walleye tournaments!!!

These are just a couple of examples of why alot of my walleye fishing stuff will be posted on ebay this winter so I can buy a little more bass tackle and why I now have a subscribtion to BASS like my nefu. Hopefully one day a tournament circuit like the PWT will return to walleye fishing.

Just my 2cents worth, take it or leave it.

Night Caster
09-28-2013, 07:23 AM
As a fan and a follower also, the way these new circuits are covering these pro events is terrible. They could probably learn a lot from watching how the bass guys cover a tournament. Your right on when you say that bass guys do a great job in breaking down how, where, & what they were using. You really feel like you could go out and repeat what they were doing and buy the same equipment they were using. We use to learn a lot from watching and reading the PWT. We'll have to wait and see how there on the water video coverage is, and hopefully there's a little more info on there as to what was going on.

hnd
09-28-2013, 01:55 PM
because walleye tournaments aren't covered the way you want, you are selling your walleye fishing gear?

ahh i see. that makes perfect sense. i walleye fish because its a blast, not because the professional circuits hands out gps coordinates and tackle manifestos after the tourney is over.

and what on earth is a nefu

AND regarding spinnerbaits, everyone knew after day 1 what the leaders where doing with spinnerbaits. if you didn't you weren't paying attention.

Chad
09-28-2013, 04:48 PM
My gosh, give he guy a break. All his points are very valid.

Unfortunately there is very little reporting and writing on the walleye circuit these days. You see some info from a few guys reporting how their pre fish went and then they follow up with a report after the event to share what they were doing. Skarlis/Bell/Grothe, the NextBite crew, Kari Solis-BearSolis, are a few.

It would be nice if there were some walleye groupies following the circuits around reporting on things but it is not there. For that to happen someone needs to be able to make some $$$ at it. WC was paying someone to travel to each event but the new owners do not see the benefits to keep doing it.

BASS has a few full time photographers. I have really enjoyed looking at the photos of James Overstreet. Some supurb on the water pics.

In todays walleye world it is basically up to the anglers to keep folks up to date. A lot of the guys share a report after the event on their facebook pages. Some choose not to share because they have another event comming up.

Anyways, I would agree that it is not like the golden era of professional walleye fishing where the general public learned new tactics after a pro event.

Yarhcaz
09-28-2013, 05:00 PM
Seems as if the OP has struck a nerve with some. I find his post to be very accurate, well except for giving up on Walleye to chase Bass...that's just plain wrong :bangin:

Toadster
09-28-2013, 05:35 PM
If you do not agree with a fan, do not kick him in the nuts, bite your tongue. The guy has some valid points, and by blasting him you are probably pissing off 100 laying in the weeds. Ultimately without them, you have no paycheck.

fiveeyes
09-28-2013, 06:15 PM
bassfan256..well said, good points..to 620,not well said..rather coarse IMO.. 5

hnd
09-29-2013, 06:19 AM
his points are somewhat valid. if you are following these events closely you know what tactics they are using. the coverage of the flw tours the last 4 years was great in regards to the shows. they showed you were they were fishing and how. MONTHS after the show was over. if you read the recaps you'd get a glimpse into what methods were working but advertising your exact spots and techniques during a tournament is something the bass pros don't do either.

The NWT has ALOT to work on but if you want to make a point, don't jumble in "IM SELLLING MY WALLEYE EQUIPMENT WAAAHHH WAHHHH". its doesn't make sense and makes you seem like whiner.

bassfan256
09-29-2013, 09:16 AM
his points are somewhat valid. if you are following these events closely you know what tactics they are using. the coverage of the flw tours the last 4 years was great in regards to the shows. they showed you were they were fishing and how. MONTHS after the show was over. if you read the recaps you'd get a glimpse into what methods were working but advertising your exact spots and techniques during a tournament is something the bass pros don't do either.

The NWT has ALOT to work on but if you want to make a point, don't jumble in "IM SELLLING MY WALLEYE EQUIPMENT WAAAHHH WAHHHH". its doesn't make sense and makes you seem like whiner.



I never said anything about wanting spots or gps waypoints, I dont even fish any bodies of water where most pro tournaments are held.

Flw did do a great job of covering these tournaments months later on their tv show or in their magazine, but on the live streaming on the internet nothing was said about bass spinnerbaits. Also the article on here about the nwt championship doesnt say what lure he used all it said was the winner was vertical jigging. Why didn't they take the time to write one paragraph on how he won it.

Do me a favor and look at bassmaster All Star coverage on their website right now and click on live blog
it tells you what the tournament leader is using right now (spinnerbait, jig , crankbait) and the tournament isn't even over yet.

All i am saying is that why would a young angler like my nephew (who is 27 and thank you 620 for spelling lesson) want to follow walleye tournaments when the winner doesn't even break down how he did it when he is handed the trophy when bass breaks down everything. How do you grow the sport, now when he gets in my boat all he wants to fish for is bass.

I also said nothing about selling ALL my walleye gear and fishing for bass only (that would be just plain wrong). Its just that being 60 years old I have very few fishing buddies left and when my nephew comes to fish all he wants to fish for is bass because he can learn how to catch them via internet and magazines. Is there even any walleye exclusive magazines left?

bassfan256
09-29-2013, 09:42 AM
I don't understand why all the bashing I am just trying to point out how to make things a little better in your sport.

Also that is why there are professional fisherman, is to come up with new lures and techniques and to show us how to use them. Thats their job.

If they didnt have fans out there buying products that their sponsors provided them with they wouldn't have a job!!

Papascott
09-29-2013, 10:02 AM
I do not understand why 620 and the others want to blast someone who is a tournament fan, trying to give his 2˘… To me is ridiculous considering 620 is a tournament angler and god knows the anglers need to do all they can to help improve or protect the image of our sport.

Walleye fishing is not bass fishing. Its more regional with less anglers so in turn there are less fans. Being a jerk to someone interested helps no one except maybe their egos.

Bassfan, I agree with a lot of what you said. I fish a lot of tournaments and had no idea about the spinnerbaits after day one. I'm from Ohio and when I heard what they were doing I ordered some spinners and tries them locally. So I can see exactly what you mean. Thanks for your thouggts as a fan, usually we hear from pro anglers or retired pros on what's around with the system and your view as a spectator can only help.

jet man
09-29-2013, 12:39 PM
I do not understand why 620 and the others want to blast someone who is a tournament fan, trying to give his 2˘… To me is ridiculous considering 620 is a tournament angler and god knows the anglers need to do all they can to help improve or protect the image of our sport.

Walleye fishing is not bass fishing. Its more regional with less anglers so in turn there are less fans. Being a jerk to someone interested helps no one except maybe their egos.

Bassfan, I agree with a lot of what you said. I fish a lot of tournaments and had no idea about the spinnerbaits after day one. I'm from Ohio and when I heard what they were doing I ordered some spinners and tries them locally. So I can see exactly what you mean. Thanks for your thouggts as a fan, usually we hear from pro anglers or retired pros on what's around with the system and your view as a spectator can only help.

He made some valid points1

bassfan256
09-29-2013, 12:58 PM
Bottom line how do we make it better?????


As a walleye fan (on the fence) I would follow walleye tournaments more if at end of live streaming weigh in when handed the trophy they took five minutes with winning pro and had him break down how he did it (depth, structure, lure, line, rod, trolling speed) or keys to his sucess, he shouldnt be able to walk away with the trophy with out breaking it down. It would be even better if they did it with all of the top five pros. Or when they write articles on the tournament results write a small paragraph on winning presentation. I'm sure alot of the pros would even appreciate this to help them do better at the next big tournament.

any other thoughts on how to make it better?

Lay off
09-29-2013, 01:09 PM
There is nothing anyone can do to make it better. The heyday of top walleye tournaments were in the 80's and 90's...it has jumped the shark and will not return back to those days. There was a reason it succeeded back then (if you want to call it that) and those dynamics do not exist today.

Toadster
09-29-2013, 01:18 PM
The "Pro" has evolved from a teacher into a mouthpiece of his boat, motor, wrap and shirt he is wearing. Watching interviews of the NWT were nothing more than TV commercials. Hard to learn watching infomercials.

hnd
09-29-2013, 01:46 PM
The "Pro" has evolved from a teacher into a mouthpiece of his boat, motor, wrap and shirt he is wearing. Watching interviews of the NWT were nothing more than TV commercials. Hard to learn watching infomercials.

this is pretty much every kind of fishing tournament.

tell people how you catch fish "GAHH!!! ALL THEY ARE DOING IS PROMOTING THE PRODUCTS THEY USE ITS LIKE A COMMERCIAL!!!"

don't say anyting "GAAAH! THEY WONT GIVE US TIPS AND TRICKS!!"""

its a lose-lose.

headcheese
09-29-2013, 03:17 PM
the info is out there, you just have to look! or ask the anglers at events or shows!

http://youtu.be/aS2kKOmybnM

Lay off
09-29-2013, 03:43 PM
Pretty sure that is the point, someone should not have to go on a scavenger hunt to find information. The pros are too busy with each other and families during events and they are at shows to promote particular products. No one covers the events because there is not the interest there used to be, it is a dead sport.

headcheese
09-29-2013, 04:00 PM
Pretty sure that is the point, someone should not have to go on a scavenger hunt to find information. The pros are too busy with each other and families during events and they are at shows to promote particular products. No one covers the events because there is not the interest there used to be, it is a dead sport.

why? they work hard to find the fish. what's a little work on your part to find information?

some guys do seminars. i saw a well known pro at a booth at the st paul ice show last year and asked him how did you catch them at red wing? we stood and talked for 10-15 minutes about techniques and what was working!

i fail to see how any info is being with held from anybody. the NWT could maybe do a better job at marketing it but it was their first year! give it some time. it isn't entirely the circuits fault for lack of interest. another waah walleye tournaments suck thread doesn't help anything.

Lay off
09-29-2013, 04:20 PM
Again, you are making people go on a scavenger hunt which is not good for a sport that relies 100% on retail sales. What doesn't help even more is ignoring problems that has caused the lack of interest.

Custom Eyes
09-29-2013, 06:09 PM
why? they work hard to find the fish. what's a little work on your part to find information?

some guys do seminars. i saw a well known pro at a booth at the st paul ice show last year and asked him how did you catch them at red wing? we stood and talked for 10-15 minutes about techniques and what was working!

i fail to see how any info is being with held from anybody. the NWT could maybe do a better job at marketing it but it was their first year! give it some time. it isn't entirely the circuits fault for lack of interest. another waah walleye tournaments suck thread doesn't help anything.

Because at a tournament setting(as a "pro"), you're not only there to compete, but also to promote the sport along with the tournament series, and give the fans more to walk away with than just a show of people walking across a stage weighing fish. It's in the angler's, tournament's, and sponsors best interest both present and more importantly the FUTURE. Too much IDGAF for real, and too many people trying to make a side career off You Tube and other media types and leaving the core of the sport and what got them to that position to rot and fend for itself with this holier than thou you can come to me to find out attitude. Just like the OP, I've tried to get my kids to watch a live weigh-in or a walleye tournament on TV. They're response .......... BORING. They have no problem watching most of the bass coverage though. And as a result, what do you think the kids ask me to take them fishing for? BASS!! And what lures do they ask me to find for them or ask an opinion on? Bass lures they see used on TV that won tournaments. And not some secret lure that the angler can't tell you about until you watch episode 3 of their TV series next year, or wait until the manufacturer discloses that secret bait next spring(he, hem Berkley lol). I'm not selling my walleye gear, but it does lead my wallet in the direction of bass tackle to satisfy the kids and keep them interested in fishing overall. I'm not going to shove a certain species down their throat because the people associated with it can't compete to get their attention.

Lay off
09-29-2013, 07:00 PM
Because at a tournament setting(as a "pro"), you're not only there to compete, but also to promote the sport along with the tournament series, and give the fans more to walk away with than just a show of people walking across a stage weighing fish. It's in the angler's, tournament's, and sponsors best interest both present and more importantly the FUTURE. Too much IDGAF for real, and too many people trying to make a side career off You Tube and other media types and leaving the core of the sport and what got them to that position to rot and fend for itself with this holier than thou you can come to me to find out attitude. Just like the OP, I've tried to get my kids to watch a live weigh-in or a walleye tournament on TV. They're response .......... BORING. They have no problem watching most of the bass coverage though. And as a result, what do you think the kids ask me to take them fishing for? BASS!! And what lures do they ask me to find for them or ask an opinion on? Bass lures they see used on TV that won tournaments. And not some secret lure that the angler can't tell you about until you watch episode 3 of their TV series next year, or wait until the manufacturer discloses that secret bait next spring(he, hem Berkley lol). I'm not selling my walleye gear, but it does lead my wallet in the direction of bass tackle to satisfy the kids and keep them interested in fishing overall. I'm not going to shove a certain species down their throat because the people associated with it can't compete to get their attention.

Two thumbs up along with eight fingers and ten toes! Very well put!

rivrtroller
09-30-2013, 07:42 AM
DITTO ! :thumbsup:

stacker2
09-30-2013, 08:38 AM
Troy, what did you say to get these guys to go hog wild on ur arse? Were they just squashing ur :horsepoop:

jet man
09-30-2013, 09:05 AM
I still think this applies:

But it appears to me the "walleye world" doesn't really care or the portion that does it too small to support the "big ideas".

Chad
09-30-2013, 01:09 PM
Bottom line how do we make it better?????


As a walleye fan (on the fence) I would follow walleye tournaments more if at end of live streaming weigh in when handed the trophy they took five minutes with winning pro and had him break down how he did it (depth, structure, lure, line, rod, trolling speed) or keys to his sucess, he shouldnt be able to walk away with the trophy with out breaking it down. It would be even better if they did it with all of the top five pros. Or when they write articles on the tournament results write a small paragraph on winning presentation. I'm sure alot of the pros would even appreciate this to help them do better at the next big tournament.

any other thoughts on how to make it better?

Nobody is really writing an in depth article after tournaments on the walleye side anymore.
Why...it must mean that there isnt enough money in it. Not enough advertiser $$ to support a magazine.

I think things have shifted a little bit the past few years. Instead of sharing their info on a website more anglers are taking to FaceBook to share their tournament tactics, secrets. Lots of pros are posting tourney wrap ups or even videos sharing what they did.

If you are not one of their FB followers, fans, friends, etc... you would not know about this activity.

Not saying if this is a solution, better or worse thatn before but it is an explanation as to where some of the content has shifted to.

MT Walleye
09-30-2013, 02:01 PM
Nobody is really writing an in depth article after tournaments on the walleye side anymore.
Why...it must mean that there isnt enough money in it. Not enough advertiser $$ to support a magazine.

I think things have shifted a little bit the past few years. Instead of sharing their info on a website more anglers are taking to FaceBook to share their tournament tactics, secrets. Lots of pros are posting tourney wrap ups or even videos sharing what they did.

If you are not one of their FB followers, fans, friends, etc... you would not know about this activity.

Not saying if this is a solution, better or worse thatn before but it is an explanation as to where some of the content has shifted to.

I have followed one of the pros on FB and I have never seen him post about what his tactics are, what he was using or depth or anything like that. His FB is more promos for equipment and just funny everyday things, shot outs, thank you's, and pictures. I follow him because he seemed to be a stand up good guy and interesting to me. He does give lots of info when he is featured in a magazine. Maybe I need to follow some other pro to see what you are talking about.

stacker2
09-30-2013, 02:16 PM
What's wrong in PRO walleye tournaments may never be able to be fixed. Play the game the way it is or don't. Heck of a lot more have decided that "Don't" is what they will do instead of playing.

headcheese
09-30-2013, 02:21 PM
i see your guys points. i was just defending tournaments because i like them and am still a fan. i see that there are a few flaws. but times have changed and things probably won't go back to how it used to be.

hopefully the tv coverage that is airing soon will be decent!! http://www.nationalwalleyetour.com/tv-video/tv-schedule/

the current state is better than the alternative (no tournaments). so if the few fans that are left don't support them then what's left?

Custom Eyes
09-30-2013, 03:46 PM
i see your guys points. i was just defending tournaments because i like them and am still a fan. i see that there are a few flaws. but times have changed and things probably won't go back to how it used to be.

hopefully the tv coverage that is airing soon will be decent!! http://www.nationalwalleyetour.com/tv-video/tv-schedule/

the current state is better than the alternative (no tournaments). so if the few fans that are left don't support them then what's left?

That's what's sad about the state now. Seems most have relegated walleye tournament fishing as a thing that's dying and soon to be a thing of the past. No real concerted effort to build a future, or even make much of an effort to keep the fans that are left. The fans and anglers that do care are bashed, belittled, and berated for questioning the status quo, or wanting to see more and a future for the sport. And the tired excuse of be happy for what we've got left. That's surely no way to gain an audience or future anglers. And Facebook and Youtube videos aren't the future for the sport, tournaments, or even the anglers themselves. It's a rotting dead end. What many fail to realize is that the following they have there is generated by the tournament crowd. Without tournaments, you all will slowly cease to exist for the most part, and your internet audience will also. With very very few exceptions, all the current and past fishing show personalities we grew up with got their start and recognition in the tournament scene. Take the tournaments away because of lack of interest and there is no real future for walleye fishing as a money generating sport. It's in everyone's best interest for both the tournament directors and anglers together to make the events as exciting and informative as possible. There's little doubt it's what the public wants. The problem is, it seems to be falling on deaf ears and the problem is actually getting worse year after year. A minute or two or so of talking on stage in detail isn't going to kill any anglers, their Youtube hits, or harm the tournament. Trust me. Standing in the crowd, a 3 hour weigh-in of just weigh, weigh, weigh, seems much much longer than a 4 hour weigh-in with interviews and details.

jet man
09-30-2013, 06:07 PM
That's what's sad about the state now. Seems most have relegated walleye tournament fishing as a thing that's dying and soon to be a thing of the past. No real concerted effort to build a future, or even make much of an effort to keep the fans that are left. The fans and anglers that do care are bashed, belittled, and berated for questioning the status quo, or wanting to see more and a future for the sport. And the tired excuse of be happy for what we've got left. That's surely no way to gain an audience or future anglers. And Facebook and Youtube videos aren't the future for the sport, tournaments, or even the anglers themselves. It's a rotting dead end. What many fail to realize is that the following they have there is generated by the tournament crowd. Without tournaments, you all will slowly cease to exist for the most part, and your internet audience will also. With very very few exceptions, all the current and past fishing show personalities we grew up with got their start and recognition in the tournament scene. Take the tournaments away because of lack of interest and there is no real future for walleye fishing as a money generating sport. It's in everyone's best interest for both the tournament directors and anglers together to make the events as exciting and informative as possible. There's little doubt it's what the public wants. The problem is, it seems to be falling on deaf ears and the problem is actually getting worse year after year. A minute or two or so of talking on stage in detail isn't going to kill any anglers, their Youtube hits, or harm the tournament. Trust me. Standing in the crowd, a 3 hour weigh-in of just weigh, weigh, weigh, seems much much longer than a 4 hour weigh-in with interviews and details.


I have fished tournaments and still do; just Bass tourney's now. I think you are way over estimating the public interest in this type of thing. I own 2 boats (River and Lake) and fish 2-3 times a week. So I am an avid angler and fish with and know a lot of other avid anglers who like me just do not get all that interested in any tourney we are not participating in. I would not take time to go to a weigh in of a major tourney if it was 30 minutes away. Walleye fishing tourney's have never really been a "money generating sport" IMHO and there have been a lot of organizations with way more expertise in marketing and promotion (In Fisherman as an example) and they basically "gave it up". All you have to do is look at the number of anglers that have actually made a full time living fishing tourneys and I think you will be surprised how short that list is.

If you really have the answers and think you can change it up and make it work than I say go for it and put your business model together and go find investors. I think history has shown that will be a big gamble.

Custom Eyes
09-30-2013, 06:55 PM
I have fished tournaments and still do; just Bass tourney's now. I think you are way over estimating the public interest in this type of thing. I own 2 boats (River and Lake) and fish 2-3 times a week. So I am an avid angler and fish with and know a lot of other avid anglers who like me just do not get all that interested in any tourney we are not participating in. I would not take time to go to a weigh in of a major tourney if it was 30 minutes away. Walleye fishing tourney's have never really been a "money generating sport" IMHO and there have been a lot of organizations with way more expertise in marketing and promotion (In Fisherman as an example) and they basically "gave it up". All you have to do is look at the number of anglers that have actually made a full time living fishing tourneys and I think you will be surprised how short that list is.

If you really have the answers and think you can change it up and make it work than I say go for it and put your business model together and go find investors. I think history has shown that will be a big gamble.

I agree that it probably will never be as big as bass fishing, filling arenas for weigh-ins, or even in the same realm. But, it is far from the days of the 90's when it was moderately successful and growing. The economy had allot to do with it, and also my generation (the 20 and 30-something crowd at the time, buying all the products and competing) moving on to families and life with nobody to replace us. The interest from the next generation just isn't there. It was, but they lost them. My kids, and our whole family used to love going to the weigh-ins at the Detroit River and Erie tournaments, especially the MWC events. My daughter used to wear her MWC T-shirt proudly and often. There used to be allot more production, information, and kid-interactive things. Something for everyone (except the wife lol). Now it's just a bunch of rods and tackle to give away at the most for the kids and weigh, weigh, weigh. Sure, the TV coverage of the tournament is spiced up a little and a little less boring than weigh-ins now, but it doesn't even get my undivided attention any longer, let alone the next generation that should be keeping the sport at least sustainable, more hopefully growing.

See, there you go with the berating because of a little constructive criticism. No, I don't think I have all the answers or would even be able to run a series, but I know what I see and hear in real life and know life used to be much much better in the world of walleye. I've been part of this biz for well over a decade working with and sponsoring pro anglers, so I do have a little insight from both perspectives. As hundreds of others, I have a vested interest in seeing it survive and hopefully grow. I choose though to make a push for change and bettering of the sport, not sitting there and accepting and perpetuating the stagnant and dying status quo while thumbing my nose at people who actually give a crap!

jet man
09-30-2013, 08:17 PM
I agree that it probably will never be as big as bass fishing, filling arenas for weigh-ins, or even in the same realm. But, it is far from the days of the 90's when it was moderately successful and growing. The economy had allot to do with it, and also my generation (the 20 and 30-something crowd at the time, buying all the products and competing) moving on to families and life with nobody to replace us. The interest from the next generation just isn't there. It was, but they lost them. My kids, and our whole family used to love going to the weigh-ins at the Detroit River and Erie tournaments, especially the MWC events. My daughter used to wear her MWC T-shirt proudly and often. There used to be allot more production, information, and kid-interactive things. Something for everyone (except the wife lol). Now it's just a bunch of rods and tackle to give away at the most for the kids and weigh, weigh, weigh. Sure, the TV coverage of the tournament is spiced up a little and a little less boring than weigh-ins now, but it doesn't even get my undivided attention any longer, let alone the next generation that should be keeping the sport at least sustainable, more hopefully growing.

See, there you go with the berating because of a little constructive criticism. No, I don't think I have all the answers or would even be able to run a series, but I know what I see and hear in real life and know life used to be much much better in the world of walleye. I've been part of this biz for well over a decade working with and sponsoring pro anglers, so I do have a little insight from both perspectives. As hundreds of others, I have a vested interest in seeing it survive and hopefully grow. I choose though to make a push for change and bettering of the sport, not sitting there and accepting and perpetuating the stagnant and dying status quo while thumbing my nose at people who actually give a crap!

You missed my point; we have a difference of opinion on the potential. Was not berating you ; where did you get that? LOL

As for my suggestion you put a business plan together because you think you have the answers; that is exactly what you should do if you believe in it that much. Go find the investors and make it happen that's all. Those who have vested interest are exactly who should be stepping up.

No where did I say I accept the status qou; I only said I do not think the support is there to make a true money making venture and the fact that it used to be much better means nothing in todays market.

hnd
09-30-2013, 08:30 PM
i think people are overestimating the world of bassfishing tournaments and their coverage. there is a reason they are on at 7:00 on saturday mornings. There is a reason i'm not sure even when the FLW airs their tournaments.

very few kids are watching bass fishing tournaments. i know guys that have stopped fishing them because of all the infighting and problems. if you think walleye guys are shlepping products the entire time, you haven't seen nothing yet.

ESPN got out of the fishing show business. people just stopped watching it. everything is different now. even in the bass world.

obviously this doesn't mean that we should stop trying to make walleye tournaments better. it might never get back to where its at.

the world of fishing is not dependent upon the pro tours to survive.

Custom Eyes
09-30-2013, 09:15 PM
You missed my point; we have a difference of opinion on the potential. Was not berating you ; where did you get that? LOL

As for my suggestion you put a business plan together because you think you have the answers; that is exactly what you should do if you believe in it that much. Go find the investors and make it happen that's all. Those who have vested interest are exactly who should be stepping up.

No where did I say I accept the status qou; I only said I do not think the support is there to make a true money making venture and the fact that it used to be much better means nothing in todays market..

Maybe I took it as the typical smart-@$$, "don't like it, start your own series" reply. My apologies. Even if you meant it in a nice way though, that suggestion still doesn't cut it as an answer. Why not the novel idea of the existing players doing it themselves? Kinda the point of this thread. Nothing is going to lose more fan interest and sponsor support than an endless stream of failed ventures and radical concepts. Build on what's there.

I think you're right in a way hnd. Bass is on a decline also, but I think that is more of over marketing and dilution of the market more than anything. The exact opposite of walleye. And true bass is a big shlepping fest, but very effective because it's a heck of allot more detailed than just I ran so and so's bait, and they have the sales prove it. And no, it's not dependent on tournaments to survive, but walleye fishing will be no different than perch fishing without them.

headcheese
09-30-2013, 09:28 PM
.

Why not the novel idea of the existing players doing it themselves? Kinda the point of this thread. Nothing is going to lose more fan interest and sponsor support than an endless stream of failed ventures and radical concepts. Build on what's there.




that's gotta start from the top. don't hate the player, hate the game!

which you are i guess.

hopefully all this *****ing doesn't fall on deaf ears.

we'll see how the NWT/MWC coverage is come next year. both those circuits sh*t the bed before and are just getting back rolling again, maybe they (we) will fix it and make it better for the fans!!

i do it all for the fans.

hnd
09-30-2013, 10:02 PM
.

Maybe I took it as the typical smart-@$$, "don't like it, start your own series" reply. My apologies. Even if you meant it in a nice way though, that suggestion still doesn't cut it as an answer. Why not the novel idea of the existing players doing it themselves? Kinda the point of this thread. Nothing is going to lose more fan interest and sponsor support than an endless stream of failed ventures and radical concepts. Build on what's there.

I think you're right in a way hnd. Bass is on a decline also, but I think that is more of over marketing and dilution of the market more than anything. The exact opposite of walleye. And true bass is a big shlepping fest, but very effective because it's a heck of allot more detailed than just I ran so and so's bait, and they have the sales prove it. And no, it's not dependent on tournaments to survive, but walleye fishing will be no different than perch fishing without them.

bass fishing is more successful because they have a larger market. not because they do anything "better" so to speak but because there are bass....well everywhere. not so with walleye, obviously. also on the tournament trail, there aren't many areas in the US that can handle 200 boats slamming the crap out of walleyes. there are hundreds of places you can hold bass fishing tournaments.

all i know is that if i'm watching tv, if i'm reading detailed recaps on flw, b.a.s.s. and nwt/mwc, i don't notice much of a difference in the revelation of who's doing what or where. if the beef is guys not talking on day 1 about what they are doing, i can't really say i have a problem with it. bass guys are just as vague and secretive. its so much money, i can't blame them.

if parson's told everyone i'm the only guy running spinnerbaits on the tree tops after day 1 weigh in live, what do you think he's going to be dealing with on day 2? is this not preposterous to anyone else?

jet man
10-01-2013, 08:02 AM
.

Maybe I took it as the typical smart-@$$, "don't like it, start your own series" reply. My apologies. Even if you meant it in a nice way though, that suggestion still doesn't cut it as an answer. Why not the novel idea of the existing players doing it themselves? Kinda the point of this thread. Nothing is going to lose more fan interest and sponsor support than an endless stream of failed ventures and radical concepts. Build on what's there.

I think you're right in a way hnd. Bass is on a decline also, but I think that is more of over marketing and dilution of the market more than anything. The exact opposite of walleye. And true bass is a big shlepping fest, but very effective because it's a heck of allot more detailed than just I ran so and so's bait, and they have the sales prove it. And no, it's not dependent on tournaments to survive, but walleye fishing will be no different than perch fishing without them.

Because you feel you have a concise idea of what needs to change I have one more suggestion:
-write up a list in specific bullet point detail of what you think needs to be done to make it work successfully and post it here on walleye central and mail it to the heads of the various circuit.
-create a list of the specific people to whom it should be sent and post it as well.
-Much like a petition all of the anglers that frequent this site and have a passion for a successful walleye circuit can then forward it to the listed parties individually to make a lasting impression.

I am making this suggestion in all seriousness because having followed these types of threads I as a tournament director would find it difficult to sort out what the true fan really expects because the message gets lost in the minutia.

Johnnie Candle
10-01-2013, 09:21 AM
I have really enjoyed reading this thread. As a player and a fan of the game of walleye tournament angling, this hits close to home.

This winter will be a very hard one for any of us that play this game. Where do we invest our dollars for the best return as a tournament angler? We all have different goals and needs from the tournaments. Some do it for ROI on an entry fee. How much can I win? Others do it for the promotional value to sponsors. If I win or place well, how much promotion can I get for my sponsors? Others do it for a combination of the two.

Since I fish for a living, I have two choices. The first is to find a circuit that fits my business model. If I cannot, then I need to change my business model. There are many of us in that situation. When the PWT, then the FLW went away, we were forced to make changes. I have made many that I did not like. Some worked, some did not. If I saw correctly, Tommy Skarlis just won a National Championship Crappie Tourney. Perfect example of adjusting.

I agree with much of what was said in the thread. I would love suggestions of what you folks, the fans, want to see and hear. I can do my best to help provide that. The easiest way is social media, you tube, face book. Even if it is not the best, it is cost effective and immediate. Not all of us can produce a tv show to reach the masses. This is why you see many of us turning to these types of media. Feel free to follow on Face Book and You Tube. If you have any requests of things you want to see there, let me know. I will do my best to get you the information you want.

Keep up the great discussion, something good will come of it. It may take a while, but it will happen.

Walleye Wierdo
10-01-2013, 10:27 AM
Guys I am just a browser on here but fished two of the NWT's.

My complaints were this. I wanted to simply purchase T-Shirts as gifts for my family at the one event. I was told they did not bring any. Well what kind marketing is that??? A simple t-shirt sale can really get the word out around the fishing world. many guys I fished with did not even know the NWT was in town, let alone want to enter it.

I think the 2014 locations should have been different and I know how many people feel about this but my theory on this is that if you want to drop jaws and peak interest then go to areas at their peak, especially when you are just starting up a series, like NWT was this year and next.

As far as the tv production, we will see how it is in a few weeks once the shows begin to air from the tourneys.

I for one will not fish the NWT again based on them neglecting Erie this year. (hate on me if you want) but it is my favorite and best fishery around, with countless areas to hold tournaments ANY time of year. It is not a hot shot game or anything, it is just a great place to fish and different techniques then alot of places.

I think comments fell on deaf ears as at Red Wing input was open and allowed to be given to the NWT staff. At Erie they said at the meeting they would be taking comments on cards but never supplied cards or a way to easily give input, short of hunting the director down.

Also just because if you are running the "PREMIER" walleye circuit and encountered the issues you did this year, then why should I spend my money fishing the circuit?? I mean if you are going to be tops, then like Vince Lombardi said, " Act like you been there before." Which they clearly demonstrated they were not.

So for me its marketing and management which is hurting walleye fishing and putting it out to more people.

Fished a NWT
10-03-2013, 01:30 AM
I too fished a NWT this summer. Never did find out where or what leaders caught fish on. I signed up to learn some new things and learn about new places. Where we fished, half the tournament was fishing but not the winners. My last tournament for sure. I liked it when Juls used to cover the tournaments and you got some useful information. I saw big drop off of co-anglers from Sturgeon Bay to Devils Lake. Is that a trend?

Gary Korsgaden
10-06-2013, 03:22 AM
Short sweet and to the point!!!!! But spot on what has caused tournaments a slow death is a lot of factors, payback, expense, slot limits, treatment of co-anglers and EGO of tournament anglers. For example after the Devils lake and the Cass Lake event what I heard at the bait shops is how nice the winners are.

How do you think the weekend angler feels when they walk into the bait shop and because of tournament events can't get their hands on red tails for example.

Been at enough weigh ins and the "pro's" that don't do well high tail it out of there so fast. Written and tried hard to write a lot about tournaments but the hardest part was getting pro's to sit down and do a interview. Too busy.....

Consumers want to know how to make their fishing better and more enjoyable. Facebook is a great medium but has gotten to be a means to advertise products and only when anglers do well is there a post. Doesn't hurt to admit it when a one has a tough day, a more real world.

Walleye tournaments should go to all artificial events. Anyone who fishes walleye will take note, wanting to learn other techniques expand the box good for lure mfg's. If "pro's are so good and some really are would welcome artificial event only. Wouldn't it level the field without negatively impacting the local weekend angler.

Bass fan you hit on the head, lack of follow up with results and methods...thanks for putting this out there.




The "Pro" has evolved from a teacher into a mouthpiece of his boat, motor, wrap and shirt he is wearing. Watching interviews of the NWT were nothing more than TV commercials. Hard to learn watching infomercials.

Fishanhunt2
10-06-2013, 06:41 AM
Short sweet and to the point!!!!! But spot on what has caused tournaments a slow death is a lot of factors, payback, expense, slot limits, treatment of co-anglers and EGO of tournament anglers. For example after the Devils lake and the Cass Lake event what I heard at the bait shops is how nice the winners are.

How do you think the weekend angler feels when they walk into the bait shop and because of tournament events can't get their hands on red tails for example.

Been at enough weigh ins and the "pro's" that don't do well high tail it out of there so fast. Written and tried hard to write a lot about tournaments but the hardest part was getting pro's to sit down and do a interview. Too busy.....

Consumers want to know how to make their fishing better and more enjoyable. Facebook is a great medium but has gotten to be a means to advertise products and only when anglers do well is there a post. Doesn't hurt to admit it when a one has a tough day, a more real world.

Walleye tournaments should go to all artificial events. Anyone who fishes walleye will take note, wanting to learn other techniques expand the box good for lure mfg's. If "pro's are so good and some really are would welcome artificial event only. Wouldn't it level the field without negatively impacting the local weekend angler.

Bass fan you hit on the head, lack of follow up with results and methods...thanks for putting this out there.

Well, if walleye tournaments were artificial only, the local bait shops would be empty and you would then have your Redtails. LOL!!!!!

Gary Korsgaden
10-06-2013, 06:50 AM
Frankly, do not use red tails creek chubs and suckers at times.

So if you want to broaden the base of "out of the box techniques" I see it comes from using artificials. And actually I see more non-tournament anglers in and out of tackle shops on a regular bases then tournament contestants. To be totally honest with you.






Well, if walleye tournaments were artificial only, the local bait shops would be empty and you would then have your Redtails. LOL!!!!!

S.Larson
10-06-2013, 06:58 AM
Sorry Gary but I disagree,.....

The reason the bass guys get away with using artificials is because bass are stupid fish and will hit anything,.......

Not that walleye wont bite on artificials at times, But walleye are significantly smarter than bass, everyone knows that,...........

I still think the best thing is to let the angler have the choice to use fake baits or not,..........

FishingTelevisionToo
10-06-2013, 09:11 AM
The "Pro" has evolved from a teacher into a mouthpiece of his boat, motor, wrap and shirt he is wearing. Watching interviews of the NWT were nothing more than TV commercials. Hard to learn watching infomercials.

Sounds like you're talking about Al Lindner and The Angling Edge television show! He just sells Rapala baits each show and concentrates on mentioning all the brand name equipment he is using. Maybe the walleye tournament pros are watching a little too much of the Angling Edge show -- Al Lindner is a great example of a teacher turned salesman.

headcheese
10-06-2013, 06:09 PM
Short sweet and to the point!!!!! But spot on what has caused tournaments a slow death is a lot of factors, payback, expense, slot limits, treatment of co-anglers and EGO of tournament anglers. For example after the Devils lake and the Cass Lake event what I heard at the bait shops is how nice the winners are.

How do you think the weekend angler feels when they walk into the bait shop and because of tournament events can't get their hands on red tails for example.

Been at enough weigh ins and the "pro's" that don't do well high tail it out of there so fast. Written and tried hard to write a lot about tournaments but the hardest part was getting pro's to sit down and do a interview. Too busy.....

Consumers want to know how to make their fishing better and more enjoyable. Facebook is a great medium but has gotten to be a means to advertise products and only when anglers do well is there a post. Doesn't hurt to admit it when a one has a tough day, a more real world.

Walleye tournaments should go to all artificial events. Anyone who fishes walleye will take note, wanting to learn other techniques expand the box good for lure mfg's. If "pro's are so good and some really are would welcome artificial event only. Wouldn't it level the field without negatively impacting the local weekend angler.

Bass fan you hit on the head, lack of follow up with results and methods...thanks for putting this out there.

I think it's low supply this year of bait, not tourney anglers buying it up. Cass lake, mn was out of redtails the wednesday before the MWC.

jet man
10-07-2013, 07:28 AM
Sorry Gary but I disagree,.....

The reason the bass guys get away with using artificials is because bass are stupid fish and will hit anything,.......

Not that walleye wont bite on artificials at times, But walleye are significantly smarter than bass, everyone knows that,...........

I still think the best thing is to let the angler have the choice to use fake baits or not,..........

Have to disagree
I am a multispecies guy and fish Walleyes, Largemouth and Smallmouth and most bass guys prefer to fsh artificials for the challenge of it all and most days would do better with live bait. I love the challenge of chasing bass with artificials and unlocking the puzzle of what best imitates the forage base or triggers the strike mechanism. I have crankbaits for example that were dynamite for 2 years in a row that go totally cold the next year. One day it is blue trailers and the next day pumpkinseed .................................etc. Have had days where I am fishing totally familiar water where my best five smallies were pushing 100 inches and the next week could not catch one over 16. Another guy will be setting there with sucker minnows that same day and catch big fish. They are not dumber, just different and the Bass tourney market chooses to make them artificial only.

I don't reject Gary's suggestions out of hand because quite frankly the state of the Walleye tourney game obviously needs some out of the box thinking because what is going on now is not working.

I still believe the walleye tourney market base is small to start with so it makes it tough to start with.The vast majority of bass guys fish for the fun and the challenge and not for a fish fry.

Raybob
10-07-2013, 08:37 AM
Have to disagree
I am a multispecies guy and fish Walleyes, Largemouth and Smallmouth and most bass guys prefer to fsh artificials for the challenge of it all and most days would do better with live bait. I love the challenge of chasing bass with artificials and unlocking the puzzle of what best imitates the forage base or triggers the strike mechanism. I have crankbaits for example that were dynamite for 2 years in a row that go totally cold the next year. One day it is blue trailers and the next day pumpkinseed .................................etc. Have had days where I am fishing totally familiar water where my best five smallies were pushing 100 inches and the next week could not catch one over 16. Another guy will be setting there with sucker minnows that same day and catch big fish. They are not dumber, just different and the Bass tourney market chooses to make them artificial only.

I don't reject Gary's suggestions out of hand because quite frankly the state of the Walleye tourney game obviously needs some out of the box thinking because what is going on now is not working.

I still believe the walleye tourney market base is small to start with so it makes it tough to start with.The vast majority of bass guys fish for the fun and the challenge and not for a fish fry.


:) :)

Anonymouse
10-11-2013, 01:58 PM
What are these "bass" the o.p. speaks of?
Is that some sort of fish too?
I swear, I've never heard of any other fish than Walleyes.
This revelation comes as quite a surprise to me.
;)

jigstop
10-11-2013, 02:34 PM
Artifical only tournaments would be a welcome change to the archaic live bait in walleye tournaments. It would get more bait manufactures to spend advertising and contingent money on the tournaments. What bait company is going to bother sponsoring a tournament on Green Bay when every fish is caught on live crawlers?

John Gildersleeve
10-11-2013, 04:16 PM
There was a shortage of bait in the Cass lake area. There has been a shortage all year. The ice being on the lakes so late really messed up the bait situation. The dealers were struggling and trying to do their best with what they had.

I do however feel that the sponsorship of the tournaments does play a negative effect to the fan base. Don't get me wrong I don't blame the sponsors for wanting to get their moneys worth out of the sponsorship fees they pay. The promoting of the product does get a bit overbearing and will tend to make people become disinterested. An example of this is: one of the functions of a dvr is to get rid of the commercials right, so a person can enjoy what they are really wanting to watch. I have fished tournaments and also really enjoy watching the shows. Some shows are better than others. I do however miss seeing the old approach that Mark D. and Sonny R. had created with the FLW. They should go back to the basics and get into the jump in the boat attitude and interview the tournament participants. People want to learn so they can maybe add a technique to their style. All they can do is try, if the participant does not want to interview then find another participant that will. Maybe try interviewing some not so in the limelight anglers. Sometimes it seems like you see the same anglers all the time being interviewed. I think if they tone down the constant promoting of sponsors and increase the learning base by getting good interviews on/off the water they will have a winner in my book. A good angler will share their information. However you could tell someone straight to their face what your doing and most others will not believe you anyways. Tournament anglers are funny this way!

dutchboy
10-11-2013, 04:22 PM
There was a shortage of bait in the Cass lake area. There has been a shortage all year. The ice being on the lakes so late really messed up the bait situation. The dealers were struggling and trying to do their best with what they had.

I do however feel that the sponsorship of the tournaments does play a negative effect to the fan base. Don't get me wrong I don't blame the sponsors for wanting to get their moneys worth out of the sponsorship fees they pay. The promoting of the product does get a bit overbearing and will tend to make people become disinterested. An example of this is: one of the functions of a dvr is to get rid of the commercials right, so a person can enjoy what they are really wanting to watch. I have fished tournaments and also really enjoy watching the shows. Some shows are better than others. I do however miss seeing the old approach that Mark D. and Sonny R. had created with the FLW. They should go back to the basics and get into the jump in the boat attitude and interview the tournament participants. People want to learn so they can maybe add a technique to their style. All they can do is try, if the participant does not want to interview then find another participant that will. Maybe try interviewing some not so in the limelight anglers. Sometimes it seems like you see the same anglers all the time being interviewed. I think if they tone down the constant promoting of sponsors and increase the learning base by getting good interviews on/off the water they will have a winner in my book. A good angler will share their information. However you could tell someone straight to their face what your doing and most others will not believe you anyways. Tournament anglers are funny this way!

Nice idea on the interviews. Only once will they need to broadcast
" Joe Blow of blankity blank boats declined a on water interview."

After that the pro's will find 3 minutes for a interview.

guest from around here
10-11-2013, 07:26 PM
My two cents. I am a veteran as a co-angler with PWT, AIM, FLW and NWT. A former pro on the FLW, and I plan to fish as a pro on NWT next year.

First of all, the walleye culture has way too much bickering. Look at the threads. It is great to express opinion, but it usually turns negative. If I had money to give to a tour, and came here and read these threads, I don’t drop a cent into this market. I want a positive representation of my product and the anglers which surround it.

Second, and this applies to smaller tournaments….Walleye fishermen are poor interviewers. The main tours have some good representation, but the depth is not there in the smaller circuits. I’ve heard so many times. What did you catch them on?….answer “lures”. Where were you fishing?….”in the lake.” Why bother holding stage events at that point? Part of being a great pro is being prepared when you walk onto stage. Also, Don’t blow off the co-angler. There is some great talent out there which never is asked a single question. But it is the tours job to screen the co’s which can add color to the commentary.

Third. Up and coming anglers are usually short lived. The sponsors are not taking chances on new talent, and the old guard holds the sponsorship dollars. This makes it tough for anyone to survive. There is great new talent in the walleye world right now. Let’s hope financially they can survive. New anglers invigorate the tour, and give new stories to the telecasts. The tours have taken very little time to tell the back stories of the anglers. Give me someone to root for, even if they aren’t in contention to win.

Fourth: Walleye fishing is not pretty. Walleye events are held in unfriendly weather. Bass guys are tan, wearing expensive sunglasses, a visor and flip flops fishing in perfect conditions. They react with the camera, smile and play the game. Walleye pros are wearing knit hats, gloves, hoodies and bibs. Most of the time you can’t make out the face of the angler as it’s buried in the clothes. Just the facts of walleye fishing in the Midwest.

Finally: There are not enough talented local walleye fishermen giving back to the sport. Most of the NPAA guys do an excellent job. But locally, the thinking is “these are my secrets, and nobody should ever learn them.” It is this selfishness in all species of fishing which hinders our growth as an industry. Walleye guys are especially protective of their secrets because the season peak timetables are short, and the walleye world is quick to copy someone who has had success. Teach interested anglers about their area lakes, and it is amazing what you might learn in return.

We all can do a better job representing this sport. And yes, I realize I will get ripped with this post…But if this post makes the sport better, then I could careless how much i get beat up.

zummy
10-11-2013, 07:46 PM
Just thought I would add my view as a relatively new walleye angler. It seems like a lot of walleye fisherman are snobs. We have seen it in this thread. Saying bass are dumb fish, etc. I fish with a guy that does tourney bass fishing, and he is trying to get me started in it. Talking to those anglers you rarely hear them talking down on other species and their fisherman. My perception is that walleye anglers kind of act like snobbish. Its a turn off frankly. Heck the tournament catfishermen around here will bend over backwards answering questions.

S.Larson
10-11-2013, 07:52 PM
Just thought I would add my view as a relatively new walleye angler. It seems like a lot of walleye fisherman are snobs. We have seen it in this thread. Saying bass are dumb fish, etc. I fish with a guy that does tourney bass fishing, and he is trying to get me started in it. Talking to those anglers you rarely hear them talking down on other species and their fisherman. My perception is that walleye anglers kind of act like snobbish. Its a turn off frankly. Heck the tournament catfishermen around here will bend over backwards answering questions.

My comment about bass being dumb was went as a joke, I guess I should have added one of these,....:D

I just can't make myself interested in flipping plastic lizards at fish,.........:deadhorse:

jigstop
10-11-2013, 09:36 PM
My two cents. I am a veteran as a co-angler with PWT, AIM, FLW and NWT. A former pro on the FLW, and I plan to fish as a pro on NWT next year.

First of all, the walleye culture has way too much bickering. Look at the threads. It is great to express opinion, but it usually turns negative. If I had money to give to a tour, and came here and read these threads, I don’t drop a cent into this market. I want a positive representation of my product and the anglers which surround it.

Second, and this applies to smaller tournaments….Walleye fishermen are poor interviewers. The main tours have some good representation, but the depth is not there in the smaller circuits. I’ve heard so many times. What did you catch them on?….answer “lures”. Where were you fishing?….”in the lake.” Why bother holding stage events at that point? Part of being a great pro is being prepared when you walk onto stage. Also, Don’t blow off the co-angler. There is some great talent out there which never is asked a single question. But it is the tours job to screen the co’s which can add color to the commentary.

Third. Up and coming anglers are usually short lived. The sponsors are not taking chances on new talent, and the old guard holds the sponsorship dollars. This makes it tough for anyone to survive. There is great new talent in the walleye world right now. Let’s hope financially they can survive. New anglers invigorate the tour, and give new stories to the telecasts. The tours have taken very little time to tell the back stories of the anglers. Give me someone to root for, even if they aren’t in contention to win.

Fourth: Walleye fishing is not pretty. Walleye events are held in unfriendly weather. Bass guys are tan, wearing expensive sunglasses, a visor and flip flops fishing in perfect conditions. They react with the camera, smile and play the game. Walleye pros are wearing knit hats, gloves, hoodies and bibs. Most of the time you can’t make out the face of the angler as it’s buried in the clothes. Just the facts of walleye fishing in the Midwest.

Finally: There are not enough talented local walleye fishermen giving back to the sport. Most of the NPAA guys do an excellent job. But locally, the thinking is “these are my secrets, and nobody should ever learn them.” It is this selfishness in all species of fishing which hinders our growth as an industry. Walleye guys are especially protective of their secrets because the season peak timetables are short, and the walleye world is quick to copy someone who has had success. Teach interested anglers about their area lakes, and it is amazing what you might learn in return.

We all can do a better job representing this sport. And yes, I realize I will get ripped with this post…But if this post makes the sport better, then I could careless how much i get beat up.

Right on! In one walleye tournament it was won on bass spinner baits, it took two years for that to come out in the public. A bass tournament was won on an Alabama Rig and it was immediatley known and it was the hottest bait for a year.

TAH
10-12-2013, 09:36 AM
And yes, I realize I will get ripped with this post…But if this post makes the sport better, then I could careless how much i get beat up.


Telling like it is??? How can anyone disagree?? Good points and well said.

Hot diggity dog
10-12-2013, 10:32 AM
Anyone that would say it took 2 years for the spinnerbait story to come out either lives under a rock or just loves to stir the pot with non sense. I can think of 3 sources that publicly announced it within 2 weeks. What more do you want Chip Leer to make a personal call to you to tell you what bait? It was available for people to see. And no it wasn't a scavenger hunt.

hnd
10-13-2013, 07:06 PM
Right on! In one walleye tournament it was won on bass spinner baits, it took two years for that to come out in the public. A bass tournament was won on an Alabama Rig and it was immediatley known and it was the hottest bait for a year.

yeah...no. we knew it almost immediately the day after that a spinner bait was being used.

still funny to me everyone thinks the bass tourney guys are any different.

620
10-13-2013, 08:36 PM
What bait company is going to bother sponsoring a tournament on Green Bay when every fish is caught on live crawlers?
Lots of money has come on cranks the last couple years.

Raybob
10-14-2013, 06:42 AM
Lots of money has come on cranks the last couple years.

I was a Basser/Tournament Angler from the 60/70/80s until old age caught-up with my bod. I now only chase & C n' R sUMo Eyes for Sport w/o the use of live-bait... (yes, I do 'kill a few 17-20" eaters every year for close friends that go out w/me on the chase that like to eat fish, but wish they would chow-down on panfish instead)

-some thoughts on B.A.S.S. tourneys...

1) -from the very start in the 60s no live-bait was allowed to promote a higher 'skill level of Pros & to increase the dollar value from sponsors for the tourneys.

2) I'd better not go-on w/other thoughts, but just say 'think about the difference in skill level between bait-allowed vs non-bait tourneys, plus the Pro Anglers increased growth of 'skill over time in non live-bait tourneys & what it would do for the sponsors...

JJ Scully
10-14-2013, 09:21 PM
-some thoughts on B.A.S.S. tourneys...

1) -from the very start in the 60s no live-bait was allowed to promote a higher 'skill level of Pros & to increase the dollar value from sponsors for the tourneys.

2) I'd better not go-on w/other thoughts, but just say 'think about the difference in skill level between bait-allowed vs non-bait tourneys, plus the Pro Anglers increased growth of 'skill over time in non live-bait tourneys & what it would do for the sponsors...


Let's think about the skill level difference in a Great Lakes / Big Water tournament from what we have now to a non live bait format.

Now - Most guys are trolling crawler harnesses (w/live bait) or trolling crank baits

Non Live Bait- most guys will troll crawler harnesses (w/plastics of some kind) or trolling crank baits

I can see some tournaments where it could make things different but I just can't buy into the argument that it would change the skill level. The skill is finding the right fish and getting them to bite. Most Pro's will tell you that they would rather use artificial baits if they can. It is a lot easier not to have to babysit bait and if you can get cranks to go you can usually cover a lot more water with the speeds most can be run at.

As for the comment about sponsors. It is difficult to compare bass tournaments to walleye tournaments when it comes to sponsors. How may national level Pro/Co tournaments were there for bass? Now how many were there for walleye? Look at the miles a bass pro travels and the days they spend on the water with a tournament every week of the year available. A walleye Pro had 3 qualifiers and a championship that was really just another tournament. Now think like a sponsor deciding where to spend your advertising dollars.

Raybob
10-15-2013, 05:38 PM
Let's think about the skill level difference in a Great Lakes / Big Water tournament from what we have now to a non live bait format.

Now - Most guys are trolling crawler harnesses (w/live bait) or trolling crank baits


I stopped short on trolling thoughts above when comparing Pro Walleye & Bass catches amoung many other thoughts on this subject. Trolling has not been allowed in Bass tourneys for 50 + years also. B.A.S.S. wanted to see accurate locating 'skills & sport over much easier plug-pulling/trolling baskets. Both walleyes and bass will suspend above the t'cline with warm water/conditions and feed on bait/bait-balls near the surface before going back to the comfort zone (Great Lakes / Big Water). You have to have 'great locating 'skills to score spot-on-spot size-wise when jigging & casting methods are used compared to trolling areas...

JJ Scully
10-16-2013, 08:36 AM
I stopped short on trolling thoughts above when comparing Pro Walleye & Bass catches amoung many other thoughts on this subject. Trolling has not been allowed in Bass tourneys for 50 + years also. B.A.S.S. wanted to see accurate locating 'skills & sport over much easier plug-pulling/trolling baskets. Both walleyes and bass will suspend above the t'cline with warm water/conditions and feed on bait/bait-balls near the surface before going back to the comfort zone (Great Lakes / Big Water). You have to have 'great locating 'skills to score spot-on-spot size-wise when jigging & casting methods are used compared to trolling areas...

So now we need to take trolling out of tournaments as well as live bait in order to see who really has more skill? and trolling is much easier?

I've been in tournaments where guys couldn't even catch fish trolling they must have no skills at all. I will go out on a limb here and say that most pros would jig or cast cranks to fish if they could catch bigger or more fish that way. I'm not a big fan of pulling Reef Runners 200 feet back and then 100 - 150 feet out on a planer board. It takes a lot of time to get a fish in with that much line out and there are a lot of chances for it to come unhooked. It would be much less stress if I only had 50 feet of line out on a cast. Walleye pros do whatever they have to when it comes to catching fish but would be dumb not to take the best of the options that they have with the money that is on the line.

I guess the biggest thing I see is that bass are not walleye. I grew up on the west coast around some of the best bass fishing in the country. I have been around bass tournaments. Can you catch bass trolling? Sure, but is it usually the easiest or best way? Usually not. Can you catch walleye in different ways than trolling? Yes you can, but does that mean we should limit ourselves to only those means? Walleye fishing has as much history trolling as B.A.S.S. does not trolling. Which is the right way? I believe both are bass and walleye are so different that you can't expect the tournaments to operate under the same rules.

jet man
10-16-2013, 09:29 AM
cannot use a net

disclaimer;this is an attempt at humor

TAH
10-16-2013, 11:11 AM
Make it exciting
cannot use a net

disclaimer;this is an attempt at humor And I saw the winky thing too!!!!!!:muahaha:

jet man
10-16-2013, 11:14 AM
And I saw the winky thing too!!!!!!:muahaha:

that one was for you!

JJ Scully
10-16-2013, 11:40 AM
And I saw the winky thing too!!!!!!:muahaha:

Don you've been doing enough bleeding without trying to lip a walleye

FuzzzyIL
10-16-2013, 11:58 AM
I haven't read all 7 pages of this thread so I hope I don't re-tread anyone's thoughts but I feel compelled to comment:

First, I am a walleye guy. Always have been since I was a little shaver.
2nd, I also enjoy bass fishing, both smallmouth and largemouth.
3rd, I participated in the 'early days' of walleye tourneys through the mid 2000's. Never fished a bass event.
4th, I've always viewed walleye tourneys as the 'child' born in the B.A.S.S world as a logical progression by walleye gear manufacturers to sell product and increase awareness and marketshare. As new 'techniques were revealed by walleye guys over the years, new products emerged to support those new 'walleye stragegies'. Walleye media such as In-Fish was right there pushing new approached as well.
5th, the walleye tourney world is much, much smaller than the bass world. Nothing we have can compare to 'B.A.S.S. Masters Champion' or have that level of recognition.
6th, the bass world banned trolling - who knows why really. Prolly several issues all piled into one and those in 'favor' won the day in some BASS backroom meeting. EVEN though the world record was caught on a spoon plug ;)
7th, for the bulk of B.A.S.S history there were a handful of names that rose and stayed on top - prolly two dozen or so. Nixon, Martin, all those guys from Texas etc. Now they are aging and a new crop has moved in to replace them...KVD and the rest. But still we see this same phenomenon
repeated.
8th, In the walleye world we don't see that. Sure we all know who stands out but each year we see 'who is that guy?' winning events all season long. Local water experts stand out often over the tour regulars and then disappear.
9th, while both worlds are in the business to promote and sell boats, engines, trolling motors, rods, reels, and teminal tackle, the bass world does lend itself more to 'who is best'. While in walleye it often boils down to 'who gets the best info' and has the ability to put them in the livewell.
10th, it seems the BASS side is more 'recession proof' than the walleye market. There is still gorwth. In walleye, the market has been saturated.

Wall-i-Lama
10-16-2013, 12:18 PM
It's simple, there are millions more bass anglers than walleye anglers. Numbers and economics in the bass world support the sponsorships, tournaments and TV coverage.

We just need to get over the fact that walleye tournament angling is an activity for a much smaller group and given our numbers, the economics just doesn't pan out.

Gary Korsgaden
10-17-2013, 04:50 AM
Several efforts to connect to the consumer fan base has not worked.....reason being the fan base is very small. It is all about the numbers












It's simple, there are millions more bass anglers than walleye anglers. Numbers and economics in the bass world support the sponsorships, tournaments and TV coverage.

We just need to get over the fact that walleye tournament angling is an activity for a much smaller group and given our numbers, the economics just doesn't pan out.