Idea for a fishing invention!

[Peluso]

I have a great idea for a minnow bucket invention that is unlike anything I have ever seen! This idea would be a fishermans dream come true. I do not have the capabilities to do this and am wondering if anyone out there in fishing world has any ideas. Of course I am not going to share my idea until I know something can be done and I would not get jipped on the idea. I have seen it happen before and hope I could find someone to trust and get this thing off the ground. Please give me some ideas and if you know someone at a factory who all ready does this have them email me please! Good fishing and shoot the puck. Mike Peluso

[Lund_Dude]

Mike:

Have you considered patenting your invention? It has been my experience that no one will pay you for a non-patented invention, since they can just build it and "gyp" you. I have some experience in this area and may be able to provide some guidance. I am NOT an attorney, just been down the road. You should not disclose this idea to ANYONE if you have any intentions to patent as this disclosure may prevent the idea from patentability. Good Luck!

[Kevin A]

Skip the search for a manufacturer for now..that isn't the issue. As Lund_dude mentioned you need to seek patent protection or a monopoly on the raw materials. A raw material monopoly is hard to come by...DeBeers has pulled it off, but few others. From what you've described the invention disclosure would (could) likely end up as a design patent. Design patents are about the easiest type of patent to obtain. I don't beleive you need an actual working model. A drawing will be enough. To pass the first hurdle in the patent process you have to meet three criteria 1) the idea has to be novel (new to the world), 2) the idea cannot be obvious in light of the existing prior art (this is determined by a patent examiner's opinion based on the prior art search that you or your attorney has done & anything prior art the examiner locates), & 3) the invention has to be useful...it has to be good for something.

The laws vary from country to country, but if you disclose your idea, say, in a discussion with someone that you don't have a secrecy agreement with, or it's published somewhere(anywhere) in any format, or if you have a working model out for testing (without a secrecy agreement) then the idea would be considered to be in the public domain & therefore not patentable. In some countries you can still patent it, but the clock starts ticking & you'll need to get the disclosure put together & the patent submitted usually within 12 months.

You can do some searching at:
http://www.uspto.gov/
http://www.patents.ibm.com/
http://www.crc.ricoh.com/~rowanf/patents.html
and determine if you idea is original.

If you can obtain a patent you'll, in essence, be granted a legal monopoly by the government(this is what a patent is) to pursue & profit from your idea (for 17 or 20 years, NAFTA changed the terms). The government grants you a monopoly as compensation for sharing your idea with the world...the world is allowed to progress faster through this information sharing.

I'm not an attorney (my advice above is close, an attorney would have to sort out the fine points), but I do have one patent now & another 6-9 pending (into the Patent Office for examination)....actually yesterday's mail delivered another invention disclosure that a colleague has named me as a contributing inventor.

One last word of advice & very important. Don't make ANY conclusions about whether or not something is patentable on your own. Also don't make any conclusions on your own whether some other patent or article...is prior art. This determination can get very dicey and once framed within "legalese" can leave you mumbling, let a good attorney make the call. Don't go to one of the "tell us your invention & we'll handle the patenting for you" scams. Find a good patent attorney. Be $ prepared, the process can be pretty costly between attorney fees, prior art search fees, patent filing fees, and if you get the patent, patent maintenance fees. I can suggest a group of patent attorneys that I've worked with, though I'm not sure if they handle designs...they probably do.

When/if you're granted a patent (or it's pending examination) you can tell the world about it, post it here, accept bids from manufacturers...whatever you want & your claim to the idea is valid & enforcable...which is another cost to anticipate...taking legal action toward anyone that you think is infringing on your patent. The courts are pretty strict about infringement. If they decide in your favor, you might be awarded all the profits the other company has made on your idea from day 1 and damages on top of that.
have fun

[Mac]

Kevin,
Thanks for giving such a detailed, informative answer to Mike. He donates so much fo his time and talents to this board and it's great to have one of us give something back in return.

[Peluso]

Thank you so much for the information! I am going to move forward with this and I hope things will go good. I know for a fact nothing like this is out on the market and I have been playing out this thing in my head for some time now. Lets just say I hope it goes well because I could sure use one to help me catch more fish. Thanks to all, Mike Peluso

[Weyes1]

A little word of advice. Apply for the Patent in Japan first, then apply in the U.S. They search all the applications in the U.S. the apply for the patent in Japan and usually get it before you would from the U.S. and usually start manufacturing it before the ink is dry. I saw this on a News special (The Learning Channel I think).

[CJW]

I was told once that if you make a drawing and description. Put it in a letter and send it certified to yourself. Leave it unopened until its possibly needed. It would be dated material showing you thought it up before anyone else. My brother in-law did one of those boner moves. He thought up the tackle boxes you can stack. But sent a letter to plano asking if they would like to buy it. DUH! I see more and more of those type boxes now. CJW

[Kevin A.]

Peluso,
The Japanese patenting procedures are a zoo. Their shabby examination procedures pollute the rest of the civilized worlds procedures. In Japan you patent first and sort out all the questions you should have had on the way in, afterward. They are the junk bonds of the patent industry. This can, in the end, screw up what you tried to do in the first place. Japan patenting is alot like their government...I'll let you figure that one out. One more piece of advice...don't take legal advice from the learning channel...you will learn, but it may be more painful.

CJW, sounds good, but you haven't accomplished anything with the registered letter. Companies/people have the option to not disclose new inventions...in this case they are called trade secrets. If you withold information from the world & put an "official" time stamp on it and someone else comes along and submits a patent application on exactly your invention, then you've snoozed & you lose. They can legally keep you from gaining from your idea. You can't hold a secret & then come out of the woods later & challenge another claim saying "I knew this all along & here's proof"..that's having your cake & eating it too & we all know that doesn't work.

[EAGLE EYES]

Wow Kevin, Lots of excellent info. I Have been wondering most of that information for a long time. Just a quick question though, Aprox. how much $$ does it take to get the ball rolling??
Thanks a million.

[CJW]

Just meant to have it registered and on file as you are trying to get that item to the market. In case someone has seen your brainchild and trys to beat you to it. An attorney told that to my brother in-law. Don't know how true, just relating. Not saying to sit back and wait till someone comes up with the same thing, then pounce on them. CJW

[CJW]

Just meant to have it registered and on file as you are trying to get that item to the market. In case someone has seen your brainchild and trys to beat you to it. An attorney told that to my brother in-law. Don't know how true, just relating. Not saying to sit back and wait till someone comes up with the same thing, then pounce on them. This was just what I was told , am not an authority on the subject. Would say the best bet would be to contact a patent attorney and get it from the people who know more about it. CJW

[KevinA]

I know what you mean, but it really is the safest to run, not walk to a patent attorney and get something filed as soon as you can. The attorney you mentioned gave good advice if there is another filing that competes with your filing date(if I remember right the filing date is established when the patent office sends you documentation that they have received your application, this can be a week or two after you actually filed). In that case I think you can go to court and, with the documentation you mention, show who had the idea first. The filing process can be a breeze or a nightmare depending on the ability of your attorney.

[Sheila]

Years (and more years) ago I worked in the patent office for Ford. I remember those attorneys patting me on the back, taking me to lunch at the Ritz, and them getting huge salary raises for me putting together 9 patent filings in a record setting time of a few months. Said they've never seen anyone do it. The process is one of the most difficult I can remember doing for anything: tremendous amounts of documents (I mean reams and reams) of forms, descriptions, drawings, research, so much stuff it would make your brain fry. Anyway, if it wasn't all exactly perfect, if a "t" wasn't crossed, a form missing, all kinds of super petty stuff, the whole thing could go bunk at WashDC patent office, and you have to go thru all kinds of crap to resubmit. It's most specific thing (very involved) I've ever seen.

Anyway Mike, just a heads-up, you must go through patent attorney to do this stuff - it's very difficult and technical filing process. Therefore, you must plan on spending big $$ to get it done. (This is what prevents most from ever obtaining a patent.) Hmmm, patent attorneys are very high (200/hr at least), and there's research and prep fees, formal patent search fees, and just processing the stuff can add many hours & expenses to whole ball of wax. Have patent attorney tell you how much it will cost! It's also extremely long process. If I recall correctly, avg. turnaround time is over 12 months!! sometimes years on some.

Also, I better throw in another warning. You could spend a lot of money on this upfront and find out later something similar has been designed. In that case, you can obtain those specs (somehow?) and go back to drawing board to make a modification that would substantiate your design as different. Then naturally pay lots more again to submit new patent application package.

When whole thing goes thru, you then approach manufacturers about your patent and design, try to sell them on making the product using your patented design. (Hey they can put your endorsement picture on it!) Then you get lucky, the product sells millions, and are paid royalties over long period of time.

Go for it if you can. And as usual, I wish you much success Mike. Don't fret over my warnings. Just thought I'd brace you. ;-)

Favorite words: "patent pending"
and man, they mean it for a long time!!!

[Peluso]

What about getting a Trademark?

[Mac]

"Shoot the Puck Enterprises", what else?

[Kevin A.]

Don't be scared off by Shiela's account. I'm sure it's true & I've seen it happen, but this amount of agnst happens in fields of invention where the competition is brutal. My last application was 156 pages long (VERY LARGE compared to a normal application) and it took 3-4 of chemists about 15 months to generate the data to support it and attorneys (and their assistents) about a month-six weeks to write it(with iterations for corrections...). This was a chemical/process patent in an area where alot of people are working.

For the type of design you're talking about the application will consist of a few pages: 1) A drawing(s), 2) The "spec"...this is a brief summary of the prior art & how your invention differs from it & overcomes the limitations of the prior art, 3) anothe rpart of the "spec" (specification) a detailed description of your invention (what makes it work & why, what it is made up of...), & finally 4) the claims, the few claims you'll make are the core of your invention...they are the legally definable fence that keep others on the outside of your idea. Take a look at a patent in the USPTO URL I have above. You'll see these four parts in every (design) patent.

I'd be surprised if your total application was more than 3-4 pages, probably no more than 3. The process is based on money, but, if you get a good attorney, it won't break you.

Like I've said, I've done this more than a few times. I'll make you an offer...the steps you're wondering on about how to get started can be done over the internet using the same sources that I would use if I were pursuing a chemical patent at work. (the internet makes it MUCH easier than it used to be) It isn't necessary on my part , but it would make you comfortable I can find a boiler plate secrecy agreement, we'll put your name on it & I'll sign it. I understand very well the obligations I have when I sign it...my job is based on one...you needn't worry about me telling the world. Ethics would keep me from saying anything, the secrecy agreement makes it enforcable. Once the secrecy agreement is in place(if necessary) we can sit down at a computer and do a preliminary prior art search (USA only). From this you will get an idea if your field on invention is wide open or if there are any US patents that are close to your idea. Knowing this is a big step forward & it'll be free of charge. If/when you find any prior art it will make the next step searching much easier (cheaper) as you will have located the filing codes that will be used in a more extensive prior art search, of the World if necessary. I would guess an attorney might search Europe, but not Japan. Japanese patents are usually written in Japanese & having them translated is too costly to bother with, if anyone wants to come after you let them(not likely). European patents are often written in english, or have a US equivalent. It would take a few hours to poke around in the databases to see what's out there. Let me know.

[Beckman Net Co.]

If you would like some information about a patent call me at (608)274-2315 any afternoon and I may be able to give you some information about it. We were in the process of obtaining a patent on a part for one of our landing nets and were informed by the attorney that it would cost between $7000.00 & $8000.00 for the patent.

Bruce Beckman
Beckman Net Co.

[Eric]

Mike, I learned a few years ago that if you can prove that you thought of an idea first, in a court of law, then you have the rights to it! You can do this in a very inexpensive way! If you put the design of your product idea in an envelop and send it to yourself, (dont open it), you have proof of the date of when you thought of it! Then if someone tries to steal your idea you can prove in a court of law that you thought of the idea first! Not quite a patent but it will help prove that you thought of the idea until you can afford to spend the big bucks on the patent! Just a thought, it cant hurt! Emale me if you have any ?!

[jonsonn]

I don't believe it is nessesary to get a patent for your idea. It's a waist of time and money. Get a Patent Pending for $110 and you are covered to try and license your idea with companies that already manufacture such items. Buy a copy of the book "One Simple Idea" by Stephan Key. It lays it all out for you. Good Luck!

[VernH]

I don't believe it is nessesary to get a patent for your idea. It's a waist of time and money. Get a Patent Pending for $110 and you are covered to try and license your idea with companies that already manufacture such items. Buy a copy of the book "One Simple Idea" by Stephan Key. It lays it all out for you. Good Luck!

Wrong. You only get patent protection an idea once you received the patent.

The guy is just selling worthless books.

[Mpower]

A good patent lawyer will cost you in the neighborhood of $10K to get going. Buy the book "patent it yourself"...$30 at your local book store.

Write up the detailed summary and file a provisionary patent, ~$100, that will protect your idea for a year as you write up the full blown patent submission and start figuring out the other pieces.

If you have the cash, get a patent a lawyer, but you can do it on your own. Start by spending some time (hours and hours) searching through patents online - google has a nice search tool for patents...make sure your idea doesn't already exist and you'll also see lots of examples on how patents are written.

[Juls]

You guys do realize that this thread is from 2000, right? :huh:

Juls

[Mpower]

You guys do realize that this thread is from 2000, right? :huh:

Juls

hahaha...no. But knowing how fast the patent office works, this guys minnow bucket invention is probably still being processed.

[jet man]

You guys do realize that this thread is from 2000, right? :huh:

Juls

must be on the market by now; where do i buy?

[Blackmacs]

I think I found it.

[Mpower]

I think I found it.


Hilarious!

I'm guessing it didn't pan out, I haven't seen any game changing innovation out of the minnow bucket industry in a long time.