pollution on ice

[cisco]

With bright sun for a change, lots of heat was absorbed by cars on the ice in my part of Minn yesterday. Couldn't help but notice the salt-filled globs that fell from trucks, cars, vans, and other motor driven conveyances. I'd hate to measure the pollution that drops from vehicles onto the ice, and ultimately into the water.

The Madison (WI) chain of lakes prohibits cars & trucks (ATVs are OK if floatation equipped) from driving on the ice -- does anyone know if that's a pollution concern, or simply a safety measure. Any info?

[Backwater Eddy]

Ever hear of 6 legged frog's?

????

BE

[yup!]

Thats the ones I use to catch the big piggies. They gotta be big and fast to catch up to a 6 legged frog. And they need quite an appetite!!

[eye lunker]

the madison chain does not allow motorized vehicles cause of the unsafe ice conditions that there1. but your comment on pollution kinda gets me irkes! never thought of that before!

[Marken]

We had a game warden out on Winnebago a few years back looking underneath vehicles that were parked on the ice. If he found any oil beneath a vehicle, he would cite them for polluting.
Don't know if the tickets stuck, but I'm sure not too many people were very pleased.

[T.G.]

What about when the spring rains come and wash all that oil and salt etc. into creeks that run into the lake? This stuff has been going on forever. You cant control everything.

[MarbleEye's]

I see the problem with motor oil and gas.....but salt??? The only negative I can see to salt is that if it got warm enough for long enough it might melt a little to much ice for that next vehicle to go over. But having an aquarium for quite a few years adding salt to the watter adds to the health of the fish. I am not sure exactly how it is done but it is only in small ammounts. Just some more food for thought...MarbleEyes

[Dutchman]

This is the same stuff that melts on the street and runs into the storm drains into the creeks that run into the rivers that run into the lakes. Been going on for ever, and it will continue to go on. What needs to be addressed is what we are putting on the streets. Not where it goes, changing all the storm drains would be impracticle. If someone would invent a biodegradable, environmentally friendly ice remover and the world would thank them with millions of dollars. As would auto owners and tax payers...ect...Just my thoughts

[cisco]

Runoff is an entirely different question than the one I posed, but certainly related. The major problem with runoff is the fact we've all but destroyed buffer zones. Everytime a new shopping center goes in somewhere there is an almost complete destruction of wetlands and vegetation. We replace nature's natural filters with vast expanses of parking lots to wisk the crap straight in to streams which do drain into lakes. Trees are "in the way" and taken down to facilitate "development."

I guess my question about vehicles on the ice really can't be isolated from much broader ecosystem questions.

[Pitts]

Cisco The run off in the spring is a vital part of the ecosystem in a lot of northern lakes. A large amount of food for animal life in the lakes and rivers is washed into the ditches, creeks, rivers, and lakes along with the salt or any other product used to melt ice on our streets and roads. I'm sure you can go to the MPCA web site and find a study that has been done and it has to have adverse affects on wildlife but the # of people that would be injured or killed on our steets and highways without sand and salt would not be a price to many people would like to pay to stop this.

The biggest problem and what bothers me the most is when I see a large family or a number of people who fish for the day on the ice and leave all there garbage and beverage cans lay there when they leave. This is the pollution that can be prevented and fines should be issued to slobs that don't pick up after themselves. I try to make it a habit of picking up any garbage on the ice and teaching my children that nothing should ever be left behind. By doing this I will ensure that they will treat the enviroment the same way that I do.

Keep it clean

Pitts

[EAGLE EYES]

Amen Pitts, Very well stated! This is the thing that jerks my chain the hardest. I cannot understand why people leave preventable pollution behind them? I feel that people who leave garbage are unlawful and should be fined heavily and summons to court. Maybe some restitution hours picking up garbage on the lake or in a ditch would change their habits!

[GreggB]

I am not sure about the pollution factor from parking lot run-off, but one can only assume more pollutants enter our lakes and streams this way. However, A couple problems with this type of run-off is that it enters the wateways too quickly causing flooding and the run-off from these paved lots is heated too quickly before it enters a lake or stream. This has been shown to destroy some spawning beds and cause some fish eggs not to hatch because the water system is warmed to quickly. Run-off is an integral part of any water eco-system. But nature has created its own buffers to handle run off (i.e. swamps and wetlands) When we remove these buffers we get flooding. The problem with developers and town boards is they don't really care about these issues. Money talks.

[Lund_Dude]

The policy on the Dane County (Madison, WI) lakes has very little todo with safety. The "People's Republic of Madison" is all about control. They want no vehicles on their lakes and would just prefer only canoes and sailboats in the summer. Just remember a few years back when they made it illegal to transport any firearms through the county. They setup roadblocks and stopped folks in orange to check for guns during deer season.

[EyeBoy]

LD;
Stop me if I am wrong, isn't that profiling? Just wait till Janet Reno and the ACLU get wind of it!
ON-PLANE!!!TOM

[cisco]

I have traveled to Madison and thru Dane County more times than I can count over the past 40 years. I have not been stopped, and believe it or not, I have been able to criticize Tommy Thompson and the DNR in testimony before legislative committees in the State Capitol. I have fished the Madison chain in open water and thru the ice. Why Madison should be bashed on this or any other issue is something I fail to see.

Incidentally, the best Chinese restaurant I've found in Wis is on Washington about a mile or so in off I-90-94. Of course, it's probably a result of the People's Republic.

[Lund_Dude]

They don't do the stops any more as the law is not on the books anymore. If I am not mistaken, the whole law was struck down due to its non-constitutionality. Madison is a great town as long as you march, lock step with the local commies.

P.S. I am sure that the locals commended you for any criticism (right or wrong) of Tommy.

[cisco]

I don't march "lock step" or any other way with anyone. I think for myself and evaluate information systematically -- I replied to information you gave, and you chose to attack me. Perhaps you see the difference.

My criticism of Tommy has been consistent, but especially when he elected to pirate segregated funds from the Great Lakes trout and salmon program for his own purposes -- a practice he has not been shy about. What any of this may or may not have to do with "commies," I don't know, but, I do know that Joe McCarthy has been gone a long time. I thought McCarthyism followed shortly after, but perhaps I'm wrong.

Produce some evidence of these so-called "stops." I know something of the law, and I know you cannot conduct "arbitrary and capricious" traffic stops. Your info is wrong. Accept it.